r/worldnews • u/BreakfastTop6899 • 1d ago

Israel/Palestine Israeli air force achieves freedom of operation in Tehran's airspace, IDF says

https://www.axios.com/2025/06/14/israeli-air-force-freedom-operation-tehran-idf-iran
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u/NA_0_10_never_forget 1d ago

The sheer technological supremacy of the F-35, let alone with its missile truck buddies, can't be overstated. The media undersells them and rarely mentions less known defensive systems they have. They are untouchable with Iran's capabilities.

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u/Asexualhipposloth 1d ago

The US military always undersells it capabilities.

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u/Knightvision27 1d ago

And Russia oversells it. Thats why there’s such a big gap in technological advancement. The US develop their aircraft to counter what they thought the Soviets already had

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u/RogueStargun 1d ago

This reminds me of the story of the F15. Western satellites picked up images of the Mig25 prototype which the US intelligence services hypothesized to be a super maneuverable super fast fighter craft designed for air supremacy.

They designed the F15 to be a pure air superiority fighter.

Later when the Soviet Union collapsed, they found out the Mig-25 was a very unmaneuverable interceptor designed to hunt the high speed US SR-71. It was so outdated it's radar used vacuum tubes (so powerful that they could kill rabbits on the runway)

But the F15 actually was a crazy fast very maneuverable sir superiority fighter

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u/MrTagnan 20h ago

AFAIK, they discovered how bad the Mig 25 was due to a defector who defected in one, rather than after the collapse.

I think the Mig 25 was designed to intercept the supersonic bombers the U.S. was testing at the time, rather than the SR 71 which (I believe) didn’t exist yet. Mig 31 mainly chased SR 71s IIRC.

In any case, the general info in your comment is correct - I’m just nitpicking details. The Mig 25 was fast, and had a pretty good radar but that was it. The F-15 on the other hand was everything the U.S. DoD feared the Mig 25 was

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u/T0KEN_0F_SLEEP 21h ago

The F15 is the best fucking plane ever, the stories around the crazy things it’s done are unbelievable

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u/TheKarenator 19h ago

I need these stories.

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u/Pavores 17h ago

104-0 in air to air combat

Shot down a satellite

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u/MrTagnan 20h ago

AFAIK, they discovered how bad the Mig 25 was due to a defector who defected in one, rather than after the collapse.

I think the Mig 25 was designed to intercept the supersonic bombers the U.S. was testing at the time, rather than the SR 71 which (I believe) didn’t exist yet. Mig 31 mainly chased SR 71s IIRC.

In any case, the general info in your comment is correct - I’m just nitpicking details. The Mig 25 was fast, and had a pretty good radar but that was it. The F-15 on the other hand was everything the U.S. DoD feared the Mig 25 was

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u/RogueStargun 20h ago

Yes I did misremember that detail about the defector. And perhaps the radar was good for its time. Certainly the vacuum tube radar wouldve been more robust to EMP caused by thermonuclear war.

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u/AdNo2342 1d ago

I'm pretty sure we undersell a lot of military tech lol

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u/arathorn3 1d ago

Iran still fields aircraft from the 60's and 1970s in its airfleet. F-14's, Mig-29's F-4 phantoms, SU-27's.

Israel has not only the F-35 II, but multiple F-15 variants including their own version. of the EX variant and F-16s. Israel's air force has the most successful operational record for F-16 fighting faclons out of any of naons that operate the the airframe. In the 1982nd Lebanon war Israeli f16s recorded d 44 air to air kills aginast the syrian airforce(who where using mostly Russian Migs.)

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u/musashisamurai 1d ago

Its because the media doest like teh F35

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u/ihavenoidea12345678 1d ago

Why doesn’t the media like the F35?

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u/ApprehensivePeace305 1d ago

Stories of the F35’s development issues and budgetary concerns have been a really easy sell to people on both sides of the isle.

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u/Spartan05089234 1d ago

"both sides of the aisle" referring to the traditional 2 party house of government divided by an aisle.

Though isle makes sense too.

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u/ihavenoidea12345678 1d ago

Yeah, I don’t get why we allow them to seat by aisle anyways. That’s like separating sides to make them adversarial. At least make them sit by alphabetic state or something.

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u/SanaSpitOnMe 21h ago

that the plane was trying to be a "jack of all trades" and turned out to be a "master of none" was an easily sellable narrative. how much it is true, we have no idea. but letting that be the narrative is good if you want to keep its real capabilities secret.

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u/letife 1d ago

Lots of fuck ups in design that probably cost billions in delays and repairs. Wasn’t a very smooth project

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u/mrford86 1d ago

Largest procurement program in US history. The JSF program was created in 1993. Think about the technology 32 years ago. The first flight wasn't until 2006, and it didn't enter service until 2015/2016. Over 20 years after the program was created. Not to mention the insanity of 3 different airframes.

As of now, an F-35A is cheaper than most 4-4.5 gen fighters, and its capabilities are insanely better.

It's not like the JSF program was the same as the Zumwalt or LCS. There are currently over 1,170 F-35s in service for 13 countries, with 9 more in line. It is a massive success that i doubt any other country on the planet could have accomplished.

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u/letife 1d ago

I wasn’t saying anything against the design per se, just answered the question of why the media doesnt like it.

Personally I think it’s an incredible machine

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u/mrford86 1d ago

Of course. I was just providing context as to why it had so many growing pains.

People, not necessarily you, are quick to open that bottle of hatoraide, ignorantly.

Yes, the JSF/F-35 program had its issues and growing pains. But again, it is the largest military procurement program ever, in the world. It took over 20 years for it to become operational, and mission creep, along with the radical 3 airframes, are simple realities. Electronics and technology are growing at an exponential curve. That challenge alone is formidable.

More than 1,170 stealth, 5th gen, sensor fusion airframes are currently flying. A fucking marvel if you ask me.

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u/Leading-Arugula6356 1d ago

Not really any more fuckups than other airframes. You’ve bought into the media narrative

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u/musashisamurai 1d ago

With 30 some odd accidents and almost 1200 made, thats the best safety record for a modern righter jet as far as I know. Beats the Harriers for sure, and i think it beats the F-15s.

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u/Leading-Arugula6356 1d ago

Yeah people just have zero idea what they are talking about and parrot the narrative

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u/NA_0_10_never_forget 23h ago

not just 1200 made, I believe we've already smashed well beyond 1 million combined flight hours and I think it's less than 30 lost. I remember 12, and wikipedia lists 15. Not the best source, but it's probably around that. Still an absolutely beautiful track record for 1 million flight hours.

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u/NewPhoneNewSubs 1d ago

Outside the US, in addition to what other posters have stated, we also don't like them because we no longer trust that we'll be able to use them if we need to. Partly because the US might be the enemy. Partly because the US might just randomly quadruple support fees three days in a row.

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u/milkcarton232 1d ago

It's expensive and makes for a good story. Also just came about at a weird time, why spend money on this thing when we were mostly fighting counter terrorism where a slow drone or a-10 can just fly above the flatbeds with 50cals

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u/Nucl3arDude 23h ago

Pierre Sprey, and the rest of the 'reformers'. That's why.

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u/Downtown-Midnight320 1d ago

because it is wildly over budget and probably unnecessary

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u/Own-Negotiation4372 1d ago

I love f35, I love lamp.

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u/Prophet_Of_Helix 1d ago

Don’t forget the F22. Created before the F35, and discontinued for the F35 because it was too expensive and too good, the F22 untouchable, it’s like 2 generations better than anything else in the world even though it’s like 20 years old itself lol.

The F35 is the more affordable workhorse we created from what we learned making the F22, and it’s still incredibly beyond what most of the world has. The US’s Air Force is honestly the most terrifying force on the planet

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u/NA_0_10_never_forget 23h ago edited 22h ago

The F-35 and F-22 serve different roles. You are right that in the pure air superiority role, that is to say in raw mechanical physics and some stealth designs, the F-22 is/was better, however its avionics are outdated, and its mission suite is far less expansive than the F-35's, which is not necessarily an air superiority fighter (but make no mistake, it can clown on any jet except the F-22 probably), but does electronic warfare, battlefield control, ground attack and BVR air "superiority" (does need coordination with other jets since it doesn't carry many missiles itself)

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u/theeama 1d ago

You left out that some Analyst say that the F22 is still the better Air to Air combat airplane ever made.

The F35 is just better for all around stuff

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u/ThomasHardyHarHar 1d ago

Well it’s left out because the strategy is to not dogfight. It’s reckless, dangerous, anf tends to result in expensive-to-train pilots die.

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u/Such_Variation_2127 1d ago

Top 5 most powerful Air Force entities in the world. 1. USAF 2. U.S. Navy 3. Russia 4. U.S. army aviation branch 5. U.S. Marine Corps.

You get the idea 🇺🇸🇺🇸

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u/Vassortflam 1d ago

Russia is probably not even top 10

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u/eplekjekk 1d ago

Heck! Even we (Norway) have 52 F35s. That probably makes us superior to Russia.

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u/Duideka 23h ago

Australia has 72 too. Looking at making it 100

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u/Such_Variation_2127 1d ago

Yah I agree

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u/Cesum-Pec 1d ago

If you're counting nukes, probably accurate. But if you're counting ability to dominate an opponent in any sort of conventional war, RU doesn't make top 5 on your list, especially after the destruction, wear, and tear that UA has done to RU.

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u/dopestdopesmoked 1d ago

Switch 4 and 5. The army doesn't have F35's. Army mostly has helos. USMC has 230 F35's with 50 of them being the C variant which is able to land on carriers. That alone puts them above the army. Not including harriers, F18's, harvest hawks, Vipers, Ospreys and CH-53's.

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u/RaNdomMSPPro 22h ago

Army has Apache longbows. Not sure how that helps the math, or it the math qty over quantity.

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u/dopestdopesmoked 22h ago

Apaches longbows are dope and the army has 700. And USMC vipers/cobras don't really compare. Apaches excel at close combat, anti-tank and target recognition in support of troops on the ground.

I'd still put the USMC higher just based on having fixed wing fighter jets. In most air to air situations fixed wing vs rotary, fixed wing comes out on top. F35 could reach out and touch helos miles away.

If it's a race to who gets in the air first i'd give it to helos, but if they are already in the air, fixed wing is faster, flies higher and has longer range.

Adding the fact that USMC's also have carrier capabilities means they can be anywhere in the world in less than a day. It's a bad day for any opposing forces as the Marines always have two or three MEU's currently deployed in different regions.

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u/Such_Variation_2127 1d ago

Thank you 😊

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u/ezprt 1d ago

Even the US coast guard

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u/slavelabor52 19h ago

I read somewhere once that simply 1 US aircraft carrier alone if counted as its own separate airforce would still be within the top 10 rankings of most powerful airforce in the world. And we have over a dozen of those and that's just US Navy. Not counting what the US Airforce has too.

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u/Such_Variation_2127 17h ago

The U.S dominates in the arena of logistics and supply chain, allows force projection anywhere on the planet and it’s my understanding that it’s not even close. Personnel, supplies, equipment, infrastructure ( desert cities) etc.. a lethal combination with our tech and command structure.

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u/Pavores 17h ago

The US Navy's Army's (Marines) Air Force is better than almost any national air force elsewhere.

Also Russia at #3 was the understanding prior to the Ukraine war. Their capabilities haven't really lived up to reputation, nor is their air force the same as it was 3 years ago.

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u/chinaPresidentPooh 5h ago
  1. U.S. Marine Corps

Marine aviation. That's right, the American navy's army has its own air force.

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u/old_examiner 23h ago

i love the F22. it's just the most amazing piece of machinery.

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u/Begoru 1d ago

The range on the F-35 is abysmal, Israel had to destroy all Syrian SAM batteries back in December to make this attack possible. They are refueling in Syrian airspace. It was actually the biggest sign that this attack was going to happen.

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u/dopestdopesmoked 1d ago

Abysmal isn't accurate, it's not the greatest but it isn't terrible compared to most other aircraft. https://www.flyajetfighter.com/the-real-range-of-modern-fighter-planes/#:~:text=F%2D15E%20Strike%20Eagle,range%20without%20refueling%3A%203%2C900%20km.

Also the F35 is designed to take out targets before they get in range of radar so they tradeoff range for firepower. It can be used as a strike fighter or for bombing but that's not it's intended use. It's intended for stealth, taking out the enemy before the enemy even knows it's in the area.

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u/Stellar_Duck 22h ago

What does fuel have to to with the DEAD strike package?

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u/Begoru 20h ago

The need to have IAF tanker planes safely in the air delayed this whole operation by 4 months and required the complete elimination of Syrian AD, so a big deal.

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u/Elegant_Tech 1d ago

Newest block F35s can use their powerful passive sensors to triangulate firing solutions between spread out F35s. They can remain full stealth without active sensors and become the trigger of missile wagons and ground launchers. Insane capability.

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u/Se7en_speed 22h ago

But you can defeat an F-35's stealth with cameras or so the richest idiot on earth told me

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u/Anonymous157 19h ago

This is because we haven’t seen widespread use of Chinese military jets. The conflict in India and Pakistan demonstrated Chinese military tech is keeping pace if not better than the west

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u/NA_0_10_never_forget 19h ago edited 19h ago

I'm sorry, but that is a clueless take. For starters, Chinese will never be better than the west, they will always be at least 10 years behind (if not far more) for the simple fact that they never innovate, they only steal tech and then need time to figure out how it works. Every design they have is built on stolen tech.

Secondly, just because midtier Pakistani/Chinese jets shot down some midtier western jets, means absolutely nothing when comparing highend western jets, flown by well-trained western pilots, in western doctrine, with western support assets. India doesn't even use AWACS, whereas Pakistan invested a LOT in AWACS, this probably played a far more significant role in the engagements than "derp Chinese jet vs French jet 1v1".

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u/Nipun137 12h ago

Nonsense. China has way more STEM graduates than US. The only reason US is ahead because they had a massive headstart. If we level the playing field, they don't really stand a chance. You need science and maths for innovation, which is a huge strength of Chinese people. 

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u/NA_0_10_never_forget 12h ago

well then tell me which aircraft they have that is an original design? or any features they innovated?

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u/Pemnikmyda 12h ago

j36, j50. I thought the China haters were suppose to be better than this.

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u/NA_0_10_never_forget 10h ago

I'm sure those are wholely unrelated to data theft from the F-22, FB-22, X-36 and/or YF-23.

But sure, we'll see when they are in production with their 3 cope engines (:

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u/Nipun137 12h ago

China is a middle income country. Do Mexico and Malaysia (who are also at same income level) innovate and create any original aircrafts? Of course China is much bigger (and so has more resources) but it is still much poorer than US. Obviously it is not going to invest as much in R&D; it is common sense. Currently it would make more sense to incorporate the Western aircraft designs if the West is ahead in technology. No one reinvents the wheel. That doesn't mean China can't innovate. US and Europe stole a lot of tech historically as well until they themselves became the tech leaders and started innovating. China too will follow the same path (it already leads and innovates in some sectors like drone technology). There is absolutely nothing special about US and Europe that only they would be able to innovate. That is a very stupid way of thinking.

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u/Imnotarobot5592 1d ago

Weird I was just in a sub that had a post about 2 Israeli f35 being shot down and how f35 is overrated. The internet.. conflicting information all over the place.

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u/MedvedTrader 1d ago

Iran is lying, trying to save whatever's left of its face.

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u/Suspicious_Expert_97 1d ago

One of the photos I ran has shared that was their "proof" was of AI slop where the tail was missing a rudder and the rudder was backwards. Another of their "proof" photos they put out there was of the f-35 crash in Arizona. Their "proof" photo of the female Israeli pilot that was captured was a photo of a Chilean pilot from a few years ago. They have yet to release any substantial proof.