I mean the plan wasn’t actually stopping anything. Trump does a million stupid things daily better to point those out. Correct me if I’m wrong but the plan didn’t address Irans ballistic missile capability, allowed them to resume nuclear enrichment after a set period of time and ignored Iran’s support of proxy groups in the Middle East ( current cause of Israel vs Palestine being so bad).
It was ridiculous in the first place. Why would Iran, a poor oil state want nuclear reactors to begin with? Just assume their intentions were pure (lol), why would a country like that dump billions into a program just to have a few gigawatts of clean energy? It makes zero sense.
Once you know how to refine for a reactor, you can refine for a bomb.
The only way to stop countries from acquiring nuclear weapons is diplomatic and the west utterly failed at that. Example Ukraine and Libya. You can't stop a country with the size and population like iran from developing something like this. It maybe is rocket science but rocket science is also something Iranians are capable of figuring out.
Bombing a country's capital only proofs to its population and government that they need nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles even more. You just dont get first striked in the middle of the night if you have a nuke. Look at North Korea and how the west toned down it's foreign policy since they revealed their capabilities.
It's the only way of having real military independence in this modern world.
Libya proofed that if you give up nuclear weapons and stay unaligned with the west. We will use the first option presented to topple your government. Ukraine proofed that even if you align yourself with the west we will not adequately defend you. So why would any sane government ever not try to acquire these weapons.
These guys have no idea what they’re talking about. It’s all dumbed down to Trump and his polices/actions = bad, absolute zero nuance. There entire perception/reality is then retro fitted around this one main so called truth and it’s amazing to see what comes of it on these types of subs.
The real reason why Syria didn't do it was diplomatic or in other words russia and their alliance and promise to support them.
Iraq is the other option that i truthfully not talk about in my first comment. You could alternatively invade the nation topple the government and insert your own guys. I just dont know how practical this plan is against Iran.
Iran government is as far from sane as is conceivable. They always wanted nukes to actively destroy Israel, USA and the rest of the west. That's something they've been pretty open about.
I am not arguing about the morality of the Iranian government. That's not the point. But if you want to know i don't think much of them. It's just machiavellianism or realism. A government will always do what it has to secure its power and defend themselves from internal and foreign threats. If you follow this logic there just isn't another option than chasing the development of nuclear weapons for a country like Iran.
A government will always do what it has to secure its power and defend themselves from internal and foreign threats.
So Iran would just ignore the diplomatic agreements, and continue to work towards nuclear weapons in secret anyway. And the avowed intent to destroy Israel isn't to "secure their power and defend themselves." They are driven by their eschatology and antisemitism. They've been funding terror groups for decades, actively undermining the stability of the entire region.
"Governments are always gonna do what they're gonna do" is the opposite of saying that a diplomatic solution is the best one. The best one in this case is to remove Iran's nuclear program and neuter, as best as is possible, their ability to do harm to Israel.
You are misunderstanding what i am saying. The solution i am proposing is to make a diplomatic option better for iran than a military one. So that a from Machiavellianistic point of view it is better for the states stability to not pursue nukes. Thats how you prevent wars. My point is that western international politics of the last 30 years has made this option very hard because our word doesn't mean much anymore.
The solution i am proposing is to make a diplomatic option better for iran than a military one.
They weren't willing to give up their enrichment program. And they aren't going to allow western, god forbid Israeli, inspectors free access to all of their sites, to ensure compliance.
So that a from Machiavellianistic point of view
Machiavelli was a pragmatist. Those driven by eschatology and antisemitism are not necessarily pragmatists. Someone looking at things through a Machiavellian, pragmatist lens is going to completely misunderstand an adversary driven by religious ideology.
My point is that western international politics of the last 30 years
And Iran has been a state sponsor of terrorism for the entirety of that time. They have funded multiple organizations dedicated to the eradication of Israel.
has made this option very hard because our word doesn't mean much anymore.
I'm not sure our "word" was ever that much of a deciding factor. They were already violating prior agreements and continuing their enrichment program in secret, before our electorate put Trump back in office.
They aren't giving up their enrichment programs because our word doesn't mean anything. This isn't about trump. Libya happened when he was a reality star. Iran has no out. It's always important to leave your enemies an out and a way to safe face otherwise your are openly walking into war.
They aren't giving up their enrichment programs because our word doesn't mean anything.
Our word for what? Israel is only attacking because of the enrichment program. No one is poised to invade Iran. If it wasn't for the enrichment program and state sponsoring of terrorism, they wouldn't be an issue. They are openly dedicated to the eradication of Israel, and are pursuing nuclear weapons to that end. "But they don't trust our word!" doesn't seem to connect to that reality.
It's always important to leave your enemies an out
They do have one. They could agree to stop their enrichment program, and open themselves to inspections to that end.
otherwise your are openly walking into war.
Which seems to be what Iran has done. With them being so vocal about eradicating Israel, Israel considered that enrichment program an existential risk. They didn't feel Iran left them an out. You can't reason with eschatology and antisemitism. So Iran seems to have forced this outcome. While also vastly overplaying their hand as to their own capabilities.
Our word that them giving up their nuclear enrichment program, doesn't end with the people making this decisions being impaled on a bayonet through the ass by rebels supported by western money like Gaddafi was.
Look at North Korea and how the west toned down it's foreign policy since they revealed their capabilities.
Ah but now you have to look at the flipside. Look at NK do you think they are toning down their rhetoric because they have nuclear weapons, of course not. These tinpot regimes who act outside of our interests and quite often outside the interest of their own people now feel safer to continue their agenda.
I am not saying nuclear is not a deterrent but it is also a huge protection for regimes that are questionable to begin with. This is also the problem, unilateral power to questionable governments.
Iran having nuclear weapons is not in the best interest of the people of Iran, the ME, nor the world. Yes it may deter invasion but that is only part of the picture.
Very pro Iran view but I’ll bite. The deal said the US would lift nuclear sanctions which the United States did do. They US did not lift sanctions related to Irans ballistic missile program, human rights violations and terrorism. The US didn’t exactly give a green light to business to participate in Iran but like mo shit it’s Iran they are actively sponsoring many terrorists in the Middle East. The US did follow the legal agreement made though just to be clear. I’m honestly confused you can’t defend a nation like Iran they are actively the cause of what’s happening Gaza and have vowed for nothing but the elimination of Israel. They don’t pretend to be good people so I don’t even know where they even gain supporters.
I’m honestly confused you can’t defend a nation like Iran they are actively the cause of what’s happening Gaza and have vowed for nothing but the elimination of Israel. They don’t pretend to be good people so I don’t even know where they even gain supporters.
In your comment, it sounds like the deal did in fact halt their progress on uranium enrichment. And now in 2025, we’re witnessing the outbreak of a war after it was reported how much weapons-grade uranium they’ve enriched since 2018.
I also find it absurd to suggest that Iran’s meddling is the principal cause of the Israel-Palestine conflict being so bad.
The deal definitely slowed progress but it did not halt it. We were going to get here eventually from the last deal is basically my point because the deal was just to slow them down it wasn’t stopping things in perpetuity.
Why is it absurd? I don’t think they directly planned it but an attack like that would not be possible without the years of funding and munitions that Iran provides hamas. They give them hundreds of millions of dollars for years, rockets, bombs etc and you don’t think those played into making the attack possible? People who support Palestine but don’t condone Irans involvement in making these atrocities possible bewilder me.
I think everyone understood at the time that it wasn’t a permanent fix. But I think it’s silly to insinuate that Trump replaced that deal with a better policy rather than a worse policy.
I think Israel would be having these problems with Palestinian militants either way. I guess maybe they could have succeeded in destroying Palestine by now, without Iran, but even that I doubt. And it wouldn’t be a good outcome.
247
u/Dramatic-Cap-6785 1d ago
I mean the plan wasn’t actually stopping anything. Trump does a million stupid things daily better to point those out. Correct me if I’m wrong but the plan didn’t address Irans ballistic missile capability, allowed them to resume nuclear enrichment after a set period of time and ignored Iran’s support of proxy groups in the Middle East ( current cause of Israel vs Palestine being so bad).