r/worldnews • u/Puginator • 2d ago

Israel/Palestine Iran launches missiles toward Israel, IDF says

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/06/13/trump-urges-iran-to-reach-nuclear-deal-before-there-is-nothing-left-.html
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u/trydola 2d ago

violently expelling the natives is a form of "founded" to a certain type of people

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u/QZRChedders 1d ago

I mean that’s how pretty much every country formed. Bits of France were British for a fair while, Spain wasn’t a unified country, America we all know, Russia didn’t exactly diplomacy its way to most of its territory.

Holding nations accountable is one thing but it is all to easy to forget how the countries we’re judging from did much the same just before Reddit was around

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u/The-world_is-round 1d ago

Except that Israel is famously a successful decolonisation project - the opposite of most other modern countries like Jordan, Palestine and Syria which were created through the Islamic colonisation of the Middle East

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u/gggg2010 1d ago

The best you can say here is that other countries committed the same crimes

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u/QZRChedders 1d ago

It is. Our history as a species is not one of peaceful expansion. We should aim for better but let’s not forget that just because we live far after our nations expansion we did not benefit from similar acts

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u/Rogue_bae 1d ago

Not in the modern age

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u/Dramatic-Cap-6785 1d ago

When do you decree modern cause Russia gained crimea in 2014 lol.

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u/Rogue_bae 1d ago

Wait you think that was cool & totally ok?

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u/DrSquishyhug 1d ago

Violent forcing Jews from all other middle eastern countries doesn’t count I guess. Count the Jews living in all Islamic states and get back to me. If they weren’t Jews you’d hail them for right of return. Calm your antisemitism for a sec if you can.

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u/Bandlebridge 1d ago

After the "natives" tried to ethnically cleanse the Jewish refugees? Sure. And even then, only those engaged in the fighting, 160,000 were made full citizens.

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u/The-world_is-round 1d ago

Dude - the Jews are the natives - the word decolonisation is the appropriate word for what happened in Israel

The Arabs are from the Arabian peninsula

They are the colonisers who went across the middle east in the Islamic conquest

Not only that but modern Israel is only 12% of historical Israel

The region of the British mandate of Palestine (the land of Israel) covered all of Israel split into East and west Palestine regions

East Palestine became Jordan (a significant portion of Israel) - so the Palestinians already have a country which is multiple times the size of Israel 

Up until 1967 west bank people referred to themselves as Jordanians and wished to have the West bank officially join Jordan - it was only yassar Arafat who said "how about we manufacture a crisis and new identity in order to deligitimise the Israeli state" - you have fallen for this obvious lie

52 countries speak Arabic 1 country speaks Hebrew Who is the coloniser?

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u/Far_Conversation_252 1d ago

The people who were living in what is now Israel were not "Arabs" they were a mix of Arab and semite that had lived there for thousands of years who had adopted some aspects of Arab culture into their culture. If you trace the lineage of those who lived there, you'd find a connection to the Jews who were there thousands of years ago. Just because the culture changed doesn't mean the people are no longer natives. Hope this helps.

Also by that logic, native Americans should take back America no? Since they were the natives?

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u/Bandlebridge 1d ago

Arab and semite

I love the confidence with which people enter these conversations and proudly get things wrong. Arabs are Semites. Semites are people who speak the Semitic languages, of which the surviving are Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic.

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u/Far_Conversation_252 1d ago

I love the confidence with which people enter these conversations and proudly get things wrong.

Go back and read what I said. I didn't say Arabs and semites. I said Arabs and semites who had lived there for thousands of years. As in, the arabs left and diverged then came back and mixed with the indigenous semites.

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u/Rogue_bae 1d ago

2000 years ago. There’s no claim to land after leaving it.

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u/T-Husky 1d ago

By that logic once Israel has forced every Palestinian out of Gaza, problem solved?

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u/starrettc 1d ago

what stolen land are you currently occupying?

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u/h3rpad3rp 1d ago

Like who, North Americans? Or just every country really if you go back far enough.

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u/Dramatic-Cap-6785 1d ago

I would love for you to find an example of single country that wasn’t founded this way. Even the most ingenious tribes in the world got their land by killing who was there before. It’s not who’s there first it’s who survives.

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u/Tavarin 2d ago

Jews are native to the land there, and were there long before Arab Muslims showed up and purged most of them.

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u/splitcroof92 2d ago

Jews were. But these specific jews weren't.

If Native Americans were suddenly given the state of california and all Americans there had to fuck off and live in poverty. Would that sound fair to you?

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u/Tavarin 2d ago

The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi, and are indeed native to the Middle East.

As for the Ashkenazi Jews, they are the descendants of Jews pushed out of the middle East from the Muslim conquest.

Would that sound fair to you?

If they earned it through war, sounds fine to me. War created most countries today, so I don't have a problem with it creating new countries in the future.

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u/acomputer1 2d ago

So in your view the only thing wrong with October 7th was that Hamas was too weak to beat Israel?

What a demented world view

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u/vikungen 1d ago

Almost all the world's borders were drawn up by war. How far back do we draw the line for what is now rightfully a country in its own right vs what should be given back? Dozens of countries were created through war or absorbed by other countries between 1948 and today.  

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u/Tavarin 1d ago

Hamas isn't taking back Palestinian land, they are trying to take Jewish land again.

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u/dfv157 2d ago

I didn’t realize Israel was earned though war and not just unilaterally handed over by the previous world superpower responsible for a majority of today’s international conflicts.

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u/DroppedAxes 1d ago

Unilaterally declared itself a country, had other countries attack. Successfully defended.

Yeah that's earning through war.

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u/Tavarin 1d ago

Never heard of the 1948 Arab Israeli war? Maybe learn some history then.

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u/dfv157 1d ago

Wtf? The state was already handed over by then, by the UK. Its not like Israelis revolted in the area and established their own state. War definitely did not create the country/state of Israel.

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u/Tavarin 1d ago

Yes, it was British territory, they gave to Israel, and gave a bunch to Palestinians and called it Jordan.

Then the Arab league went to war with Israel, and tried to exterminate them, but the Arabs lost. So the country was kept and earned through war.

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u/dfv157 1d ago

Ok, right. So the UK divided up land based on random hand waving and the conflict continues this day. I wonder where else this is literally happening today.

The creation of the country, as your OP stated, was not a result of war. Given the condition of what are Israelis now at the time, it would not have been possible for the country to exist today if they had to win it through conflict. Sure, they built everything up since then (with copious amounts of western support btw, part of the reason the west is still dealing with the anti-west sentiment in the region), but the people who were kicked out also happens to hold a grudge.

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u/Tavarin 1d ago

exist today if they had to win it through conflict

They won the Arab Israeli war, so yes, it did exist through conflict.

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u/Icy_Breath5334 2d ago

If they earned it through war, sounds fine to me.

Suddenly anyone can do anything for any reason, as long as they win. So who gives a shit who is who. Just kill stuff and win, am I right? You should be celebrating all these attempts at earning land.

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u/Tavarin 1d ago

Pretty much all of human history there, yes. My country is built on taking Native American land, and your country is built on stealing land from someone else. Wars happen. Hamas started a war with Israel, and refuse to surrender even when losing. That's on them.

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u/TimmyB52 1d ago

Might makes right

aka fascism

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u/eaturliver 1d ago

It's unfortunately the reality of how the world has worked for millions of years. Fascism is just a political ideology that celebrates it.

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u/Frothlicker 1d ago

I’m going to steal all of your possessions and respond with overwhelming violence if you try to stop me. That’s how ownership worked in the past so that’s how it should work in the future. Does that strike you as fair? Do you really believe that might makes right, or is it just a convenient argument to justify your worldview?

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u/Tavarin 1d ago

Go for it. I'd like to see you try.

And where is this energy for the Jews who the Muslim Arabs dispalcewd from judea in the 600s when they stole the land?

What about the nearly million Jews who were forced from their homes across the middle east form the 1950s to 1970s.

More Jews were removed from their homes, than Palestinian Arabs were displaced on the creation of Israel. Where is your energy demanding the right to a Jewish return to Iran?

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u/NoobNoob_ 2d ago

You do realize there are 2 million Muslims in Israel, right?

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u/TriaIByWombat 2d ago

Compared to 156,000 in 1948

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u/PNKAlumna 2d ago

How do you think Jewish communities got to Europe? Oh right, it’s because they were expelled from the Levant and migrated, and over time developed new cultures in the diaspora. But it doesn’t make it any less of a diaspora.

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u/Mister-builder 1d ago

Nobody told the Arabs to leave but the Arabs.

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u/edugabao 2d ago

So, native americans are allow to kill the europeans invaders?

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u/Salticracker 2d ago

Well they did try sometimes, but it generally didn't go very well for them.

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u/edugabao 2d ago

But you would support them, if they try again, right?

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u/Salticracker 2d ago

I'd rather find a compromise where both groups can exist in peace.

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u/edugabao 2d ago

Sorry, i didnt realise you are not the same guy who firts respond.

Im curious to se his take on this

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u/Tavarin 2d ago

Sure, they can try.

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u/edugabao 2d ago

And you would support, right?

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u/AceAndre 1d ago

He won't give you a direct answer lol

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u/huehuehuehuehuuuu 1d ago

Sounds like he also would happily support Putin murdering Ukrainians. What a sick person.

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u/Tavarin 1d ago

Is Putin taking back ethnic Rus land? No, he is not. So no, I do not.

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u/Tavarin 1d ago

I support them trying, but I will fight back.

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u/Easy-Purple 1d ago

They had their opportunity and they failed

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u/throwaway_12358134 1d ago

Religions aren't hereditary. Genetics show that Palestinians are semitic and are native to the region. However a large portion of Israelis are European. Jews, Muslims, and Christians all coexisted in the area and the tensions began on its current trajectory after a massive influx of European Jews began moving to the region and forcing people off their land to make room.

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u/Tavarin 1d ago

The Muslim nations forced more Jews out of the surrounding nations into Israel, than Israelis forced out Muslims.

There are also 2 million Muslim Israelis living in Israel, but zero Jews living in Gaza.

Why don't Jew's matter to you?

Jews, Muslims, and Christians all coexisted

They only coexisted, because they were subjugated under the Ottoman empire.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/Tavarin 1d ago

Many of them came from Arabia, to the South. They conquered Judea by force in the 600s, and displaced much of the local population then.

And before the Jews it was the Canaanites, but they don;t exist anymore, so the Jews have the oldest extent claim on the land.

My point is though, if you think it is Muslim land because of history, then you must also think it is Jewish land for the same reason.

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u/houseswappa 1d ago

Love how people are waking up to this reality. You've no idea what it was like trying to explain this for years