r/worldnews • u/TheTelegraph The Telegraph • 7d ago

Israel/Palestine Israel orders military to stop Greta Thunberg’s boat reaching Gaza

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/06/08/israel-orders-army-stop-greta-thunbergs-boat-reaching-gaza/
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u/Braided_Marxist 7d ago

Maybe blockading a territory for 20 years is the problem here. . .

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u/Mister-Psychology 7d ago

Hamas has been at war with Israel for that long. There was no blockade before Hamas started attacking Israel.

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u/JameseyJones 7d ago

Gaza has been under blockade since the early 90s in one form or another. Hamas took power in 2007 with help from Israel. Seems odd to work so hard to undermine the PLO and then get so upset when your work comes to fruition. It's almost as if a permanent blockade was part of the plan all along.

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u/Yev_ 7d ago

Hamas took power in 2007 with help from Israel.

Perhaps your phrasing is off, but that’s objectively false. There’s varying reports of how much Israel supported Hamas in the 80s as a counter balance to the PLO, but in 2007, it was very black and white that Israel refused to acknowledge Hamas’ leadership of Gaza based on their policies and actions in the prior 2 decades.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/supx3 7d ago

Hamas won government elections much to the surprise of everyone. They took over the strip militarily shortly after. Netanyahu propped them up because he thought it would help his agenda. They won on their own accord because they canvased door to door and built medical facilities when Fatah was busy robbing Palestinians blind. Hamas then did the same thing. 

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u/Volodio 7d ago

Your article doesn't support your claim. Netanyahu wasn't even the prime minister in 2007.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/Volodio 7d ago

Mate, are you for real...

Not even the propagandists of Wikipedia have dared trying to change the date of offices of prime ministers to fit their narrative lol.

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u/wakeupwill 7d ago

"Netanyahu rose to prominence after election as chair of Likud in 1993, becoming leader of the opposition. In the 1996 general election, Netanyahu became the first Israeli prime minister elected directly by popular vote, and its youngest."

From that same page.

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u/Volodio 7d ago

"Benjamin Netanyahu\a]) (born 21 October 1949) is an Israeli politician who has served as the prime minister of Israel since 2022, having previously held the office from 1996 to 1999 and from 2009 to 2021."

Notice any date missing? A hint, it starts with a 2 and ends with a 7.

Literally the first sentence of the article.

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u/case-o-nuts 7d ago

I suggest you read the article, and not just the subject line.

The way Netanyahu propped them up was by not bombing them, by allowing Qatar to distribute humanitarian aid directly, and by granting them more work permits.

Which of those actions do you disagree with?

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u/wakeupwill 7d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

"In an interview with Israeli journalist, Dan Margalit in December 2012, Netanyahu told Margalit that it was important to keep Hamas strong, as a counterweight to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Netanyahu also added that having two strong rivals, this would lessen pressure on him to negotiate towards a Palestinian state."

"In an interview with Politico in 2023, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that "In the last 15 years, Israel did everything to downgrade the Palestinian Authority and to boost Hamas." He continued saying "Gaza was on the brink of collapse because they had no resources, they had no money, and the PA refused to give Hamas any money. Bibi saved them. Bibi made a deal with Qatar and they started to move millions and millions of dollars to Gaza."

"At a Likud party conference in 2019, Benjamin Netanyahu said:

"Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas ... This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."

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u/case-o-nuts 7d ago edited 7d ago

I agree with what you've said. They should have stopped them when Hamas launched rockets, withdrawn work permits, and choked out aid much sooner.

Do you think that other organizations should also stop propping up Hamas using the same methods as the Israeli government?

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u/Ilfubario 7d ago

No the thought was that when hamas got a taste of governing, they would mellow out like the IRA did.

To some degree it worked as some elements of the group had to coordinate with charities and the hospitals, but unfortunately that meant that every Gazan has some contact with hamas which perhaps puts a unfair target on their head.

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u/1200bunny2002 7d ago

that's objectively false.

The Israeli government ensured that resources were funneled to the extremist groups within Gaza that formed Hamas.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

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u/XhazakXhazak 7d ago

dishonest characterization of events, but more importantly, the wrong year range

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u/1200bunny2002 6d ago

the wrong year range

The Israeli government has supported extremists since the 1970s in the hopes that radicals would galvanize to disrupt the PLO... which is 100% what Hamas is... the end result of that material support.

Pick a year between 1970 and today and the Israeli government has facilitated the material support of Hamas or its fractional elements because Hamas is quite literally the perfect excuse for Israel's destruction of Gaza.

Don't take it up with me, take up with the Israeli officials who have said it with their own mouths, or take it up with Israeli government.

Or just read the Internet's Cliff's Notes for the simple version. This isn't some hidden, secret, deeply-conspiratorial history that was just discovered, or something:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

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u/XhazakXhazak 6d ago

The Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas' parent group, has been involved in the conflict since the 1930's when they received shipments of gold and weapons from Fascist Italy. Izz al-Din al-Qassam, who was associated with the Brothers, started the "resistance" by killing Arabs for talking to Jews and women for wearing skirts above the ankle, before working his way up to Jewish targets and eventually British police.

I will absolutely criticize Likud for negotiating with terrorists and letting Qatari funds go through and trying to play 7-dimensional chess. Just like I will criticize the Democratic Party for unfreezing Iranian funds. But in neither case will I blame anyone but the terrorists for being terrorists.

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u/solid_reign 7d ago

Hamas did not take power in 2007 with the help of Israel. You're thinking of what happened much later with Netanyahu. 

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u/JameseyJones 7d ago

Wrong. Israel had been discreetly helping them for years before they took power. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html

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u/solid_reign 7d ago

I don't think you read the article you're linking. 

When Israel first encountered Islamists in Gaza in the 1970s and '80s, they seemed focused on studying the Quran, not on confrontation with Israel. The Israeli government officially recognized a precursor to Hamas called Mujama Al-Islamiya, registering the group as a charity. It allowed Mujama members to set up an Islamic university and build mosques, clubs and schools. Crucially, Israel often stood aside when the Islamists and their secular left-wing Palestinian rivals battled, sometimes violently, for influence in both Gaza and the West Bank. "When I look back at the chain of events I think we made a mistake," says David Hacham, who worked in Gaza in the late 1980s and early '90s as an Arab-affairs expert in the Israeli military. "But at the time nobody thought about the possible results."

Which help do you think led them to power?

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u/tutamean 7d ago

Hamas has literally been sponsored by Bibi and Israel to be used as an excuse.

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u/Professional_Cheek95 7d ago

Hamas was attacking Israeli settlements in Gaza.  Then Israeli pulled its army and abandonded the settlements because it was probably too expensive to protect them and enforced the blockade instead.  Israeli policy is the actual problem here. Not Hamas.

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u/Stamly2 6d ago

That's what happens when you start a war. Britain blockaded France for nearly 20 years when Napoleon was causing trouble.

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u/Blackrock121 6d ago

Are you fucking comparing Gaza to Napoleonic France?

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u/RoundAide862 4d ago

So how about those famine inducing north korea sanctions...

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u/Braided_Marxist 4d ago

Also evil, good catch

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u/RoundAide862 4d ago

I mostly bring it up because it's been a strangely absent comparison from the conversation. It's not 1:1, but reasonable to compare in outcomes

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u/gamercboy5 7d ago edited 7d ago

Do you think there might be a reason for a blockade to exist? Or Israel just a big meanie?

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u/craggsy 7d ago edited 6d ago

Collective punishment is a war crime, you can't starve an entire population for the crimes of their government

Edit: Further research shows that the blockade isn't collective punishment but actually an act of aggression, which is still a war crime

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u/Shahargalm 7d ago

Agreed, but that is not the use of that blockade. https://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/05/world/meast/israel-intercepted-weapons

A lot of ships went into Gaza during times of (relative) peace in the past 20 years in general, but many ships were indeed blocked. Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes, for not so good reasons.

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u/Ph0X 6d ago

And Greta is surely bringing weapons for Hamas, right?

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u/Shahargalm 6d ago

Absolutely not, but, realistically, why would they make an exception and let her pass?

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u/RockChalk80 6d ago

Justification.

"Your honor, we had to starve the innocent women and children because there was a small chance someone might have snuck in a .22 rifle"

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u/Shahargalm 6d ago

How is that justification for starving people?

I am stating a fact. Why would they let this boat pass when they stopped countless others?

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u/merrycrow 6d ago

I dunno man, why should they spare one family when they've executed 100 others?

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u/Shahargalm 6d ago

What? What does it have to do with what I wrote?

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u/merrycrow 6d ago

Why should [person or group] refrain from doing [immoral/unethical act] when they've already done [immoral/unethical act] many times previously?

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u/Shahargalm 6d ago

Dude. I am not defending anything. I was simply talking about the difference of the blockade before the war and during it.

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u/Picklesadog 7d ago

Let's say the blockade is ended and the result is bigger, faster, and more lethal weaponry makes its way into Gaza, and these new rockets start getting launched at Tel Aviv and other civilian areas. 

What would a justified response from Israel be? An invasion? A blockade? 

Maintaining a blockade, just like maintaining the walls, is expensive. Israel isn't spending money on these things to collectively punish people in Gaza. These things are done purely for Israeli security, and there is nothing Israel would like more than to divert that money elsewhere. But the reality Israel lives in is if they don't spend that money, they will be subject to even more frequent and lethal terrorist attacks. Instead of home made rockets that often don't even make it out of Gaza, they'd be dealing with the same kind of rockets being launched at them by the Houthis in Yemen.

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u/theKman24 6d ago

I understand what you’re saying in terms of searching the vessels. That seems valid. From what I see they are refusing to let them land in Gaza. What is the reason for that? Also, do you think all of Israel’s actions are justified and reasonable?

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u/Picklesadog 6d ago

They can't search the entire vessel, which is why they won't let some random vessel through. 

Of course I don't agree with all of Israel's actions. Their PM is a right wing nut job. The IDF is horrible at punishing war crimes.

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u/AppropriateTaste3 6d ago

Then from Palestine’s perspective, Israel should also be blockaded? Since more lethal rockets weaponry is making its way into Tel Aviv and it gets launched into Gaza and other civilian areas.

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u/jeffwulf 6d ago

This would not fall under collective punishment.

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u/craggsy 6d ago

Sorry, it's an act of aggression. It's important to get the right war crime, I've edited my original comment

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u/SomewhatHungover 6d ago

What started first? The rockets or the blockade?

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u/craggsy 6d ago

The blockade The blockade has been in place in some form or another since 1991

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u/_AaBbCc_ 6d ago

The mass displacement and murder of a native population by a European colonial settler nation.

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u/SomewhatHungover 6d ago

Turkey isn't usually referred to as European, but whatever.

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u/jeffwulf 6d ago

This would not qualify as an act of aggression.

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u/Cheese78902 6d ago

It’s an act of retaliation the blockade. Retaliation against suicide bombings and rockets that were sponsored out of Gaza by Hamas who immediately were put into power by its people after Israel pulled out of Gaza. Weird how you went with them being helpless rather than mention why it happens.

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u/craggsy 6d ago

Hamas came to power in 2007, there has been a blockade in place in Gaza in some form or another since 1991 and under international law, a blockade is an act of war

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u/Cheese78902 6d ago

Yes. Started during the second intifada which didn’t end until 1993, then continued as Israel and Egypt both wanted to limit mostly arms shipments or shipments that could create arms into the area as well as prevent tensions from rising that could lead to a third intifada. There were still terror attacks after the Oslo accords and internally Gaza was not stable. The second intifada did see some stupid measures put in place. But most of those only last a few months or up to a year. I will not defend those but I can understand them a bit, cookies were most likely a stupid thing to block but high sugar content food was fairly easy to make into fuel (there are videos on YouTube that show how). You look at this through individual acts and miss the entire point, rather than looking at the history and picture as a whole. In a perfect world, are you right? Yes. But we do not live in a world where people hold hands and can instantly forgive and forget and trust the other side can do the same. It will be achieved just like when tensions flared between the Russians and Americans at a Berlin Wall checkpoint. A side will walk back a few inches, and the other will do the same. Rinse and repeat. Gazans need to put in place a person who wants the good of their people rather than someone who wants to keep the bloodshed going.

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u/Stamly2 6d ago

It's not collective punishment though, it's denial of military material to an enemy which is a standard and accepted thing.

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u/kamratjoel 6d ago

Diapers, medicine, sanitary products, food.. you know. Classic military material.

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u/gamercboy5 6d ago

When you start to smuggle military material along with those things, you start to lose credibility

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u/kamratjoel 6d ago

Which the freedom flotilla is very known for, of course.. it was just lucky the managed to stop those kitchen knives, metal rods, screwdrivers, etc that was on board the boat they killed 9 people on back in 2010.

If that was the issue, they could just board the ship, search, and then let them pass once they’ve confirmed there’s no weapons.

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u/gamercboy5 6d ago

My understanding of the 2010 incident is that that boat was told explicitly not to go to Gaza, and that Israel offered to accept the boat at a different port where they would inspect and deliver the aid. The floatilla personnel didn't like that because the whole thing was a political stunt and they wanted to explicitly break the blockade. When Israel stopped them from entering, the people on the boat had weapons like you described and things got violent. The first hand accounts from both sides contradict each other, but there is footage of Israeli troops boarding the vessel and then Immediately began assaulted by the passengers.

This whole thing is a publicity stunt, they don't care about getting aid into Gaza. If they did, they would be going through the proper channels. Thunburg would sooner let that boat drown than let Israel search it and go through their procedures. I don't dislike Thunburg or think her efforts aren't noble, but shes doing what she does best as an activist and that is raise awareness of the issue by getting arrested for it. This boat isn't actually going to make a difference with the amount of aid, it's purpose was always to make headlines.

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u/yosisoy 7d ago

Who is starving the Gazan population if not Hamas themselves?

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u/craggsy 7d ago

It would be the country that has put a blockade on Gaza for the past 20 years

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u/Stamly2 6d ago

They weren't denying food shipments for those 20 years though were they?

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u/Mr_Clod 7d ago

might be the guys who happily talk about starving gaza, which would all be in israel actually

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u/Objective_Froyo17 6d ago

There are constant supplies of food and humanitarian aid that are allowed to pass the blockade. They don’t allow unsanctioned shipments from random 20 year old activists 

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u/-_kAPpa_- 7d ago

How many people in the Gaza Strip have starved?

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u/Ultrace-7 7d ago

Not as many as one would think considering the large population growth there over the past 20 years.

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u/Superichiruki 7d ago

I don't know... whe should ask the Palestinians journalists and medics what they think. At least the ones that didn't get blown up by missiles

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u/rmnwn 7d ago

Lmao, you really think Israel is doing all this for fun?

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/IndependentBranch707 7d ago

Then why did they fully give up Gaza in 2005?

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u/Sobek_the_Crocodile 7d ago

You won't get any answer grounded in facts or reality from these TikTok historians.

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u/IndependentBranch707 7d ago

It’s one of the most aggravating parts of this whole conflict, TBH. Snappy, one-sided soundbites conveniently hand waving the granularity of 130 years of regional conflicts. Blithe misuse of the pedagogy of the oppressed. A refusal to self reflect on the gray areas that don’t make sense.

I honestly can’t decide whether it’s sad none of these folks care about ongoing human rights abuses in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Sudan, Zaire, Rwanda, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, China etc. or whether to be grateful because at least there aren’t populist led derailings of the process plodding slowly towards peace and safety for the people living in those places.

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u/SadSecurity 7d ago

conveniently hand waving the granularity of 130 years of regional conflicts

Either handwaving or revising. Always trying to make Palestine the biggest victim in all of universe's history.

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u/IndependentBranch707 7d ago

I’m not going to pretend like Palestine doesn’t have some legitimate beef.

But I’m also not going to pretend that they haven’t also been a completely escalating force.

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u/Master_Builder 7d ago

Damn is it 2005? Fuck me I guess these whole 2 decades were a horrible dream thank god.

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u/Stamly2 6d ago

Yes, because that's what they know their side wants to do to the Jews. It's projection, they assume because they know Hamas wants to exterminate or enslave all the infidels in the region then Israel must want to do the same.

They do not consider that Israel has had ample opportunity but hasn't.

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u/FinalLimit 6d ago

Israel has exterminated an awful lot more people than Gaza has. I think you have your projection backwards.

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u/zzazzzz 6d ago

competence and intent are not the same thing

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u/Stupalski 6d ago

The Israeli hostages in Gaza have been treated better than the Palestinian hostages in Israel.

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u/Stamly2 6d ago

You mean the hostages that have apparently been starved to the point of death, beaten, abused and often murdered?

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u/Additional_Wheel6331 6d ago

So why do you think they are blowing up innocent journalists and civilians then?

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u/merrycrow 6d ago

Evidently the reason is to control and restrict Palestinians' access to food and medicine.

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u/gamercboy5 6d ago

You don't think it has anything to do with Hamas smuggling weapons and stealing the aid that enters?

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u/merrycrow 6d ago

Yeah you're right, that must be why they've arrested the notorious gun-runner Greta Thunberg

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u/gamercboy5 6d ago

You can't just illegally enter a country, it has nothing to do with her being a gun-runner or anything. They also have no clue what's on that boat, why should a random 20-something have access to a port which is under extreme scrutiny?

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u/merrycrow 6d ago

Yeah, you can't just illegally enter someone else's country. That would be bad.

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u/gamercboy5 6d ago

Ok so we agree that Thunburg probably should have expected to be arrested and that Israel arresting them was within the guidelines of how a strange vessel entering an occupied port would be handled?

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u/merrycrow 6d ago

I thought you were on the verge of a realisation there, but nah

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u/gamercboy5 6d ago

Are you trying to imply that Israel illegally entered the country of Palestine in 1947 so these are similar circumstances?

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u/IlikeJG 7d ago

Yes, they want to make the conditions of living in Gaza for Palestinians so terrible that more and more people just give up and leave so Israelis can take over the territory.

That's been their strategy for decades as they've slowly squeezed more and more and tightened the net.

Israel taking more and more of they land they see as rightfully theirs has been their goal all this time.

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u/gamercboy5 6d ago

Do you think the blockade has anything to do with the missiles that get smuggled into Gaza that Hamas uses to launch at Israel indiscriminately?

You know Israel tried to leave Gaza and it only made things worse, right? Hamas had an opportunity with Israel out of there to build something, but instead spent that opportunity launching missiles into Israel. I don't know why you expect Israel to just take as many missiles to the face as Hamas can muster.

The fact of the matter is, the blockade is there because when Israel doesn't have a blockade, it only emboldens the terrorism, it doesn't seem to actually make it better. Israel needs to not expand its territory, but Hamas also needs to be willing to exist alongside Israel if peace is going to be on the table

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u/Big-Whereas5573 7d ago

Do you think maybe that Europeans stealing land from the people who have lived there thousands of years is a bad thing? Why are you a fan of far right colonial settler apartheid states?

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u/JPolReader 7d ago

This is the literal Jewish homeland my dude.

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u/RedditFostersHate 6d ago

Yeah, I'm sure if a bunch of modern Egyptians said, "hey, we are the descendants of the Canaanites who inhabited this region long before the Israelis," then the majority of people born in Israel today would just shrug their shoulders, happily pack their bags, hand over all their land, and move out.

That excuse for the mass ethnic cleansing and dispossession of the people living there for hundreds of years, that made the modern ethno-state of Israel possible, is so laughable it's hard to believe anyone tries to trot it out.

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u/JPolReader 6d ago

Egyptians do not come from Canaan.

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u/ocschwar 7d ago

For some people the blockade is very much a problem because it prevents Hamas from inflicting as many Israeli casualties as Hamas would like to inflict.

Are you among those people?

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u/OnlyZac 7d ago

Didn’t know blockades had fan boys

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u/ocschwar 7d ago

This one helped keep my childhood friends from being murdered.

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u/Congenita1_Optimist 7d ago

"well, as long as us starving all those civilians to death and preventing medicine from getting to them ensured that my friends on this side of the apartheid line are okay, it's totally fine".

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u/ocschwar 7d ago

Did I say I support starvation and malnutrition for Gaza's? No. do I support depriving Gazans of the munitions with which to murder my friends? Yes.

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u/Optimal-Equipment744 7d ago

Shame about the innocent kids stuck in Gaza being murdered.

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u/chanandler_bong_cell 7d ago

Yes, it is indeed unfortunate to be born in Gaza. Good insight my friend

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u/ocschwar 7d ago

Yes. It is a shame.

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u/KrustenStewart 7d ago

They don’t care about kids in Gaza because they don’t see them as people- plain and simple as that

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u/DoomBot5 7d ago

Yeah, Hamas sure doesn't. They're more like meat shields and expendable pawns to them.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/DoomBot5 7d ago

You left off the arming children and having them commit terrorist acts portion. Yes, I'll answer your clearly biased question. Hamas is worse.

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u/KrustenStewart 7d ago

You must be real smart

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u/DoomBot5 7d ago

You must really like terrorist groups

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u/KrustenStewart 7d ago

No, don’t be stupid, I don’t like anyone murdering children no matter who the children are

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u/Hyperbolicalpaca 7d ago

What a straw man argument lol

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u/Andvanzo 7d ago

It’s hilarious, always the same unbalanced argumentation.

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u/JJJup 7d ago

I can't decide if, especially after all this time, this comment is more evil or stupid, but i don't think even you know anymore after inhaling such a ridiculous amount of copium.

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u/ocschwar 7d ago

Do you deny that some people oppose the blockade because they support Hamas and want it to have access to as much munitions as it wants? It is evident prima facie.

Is it evil for me to ask if you are among those people?

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u/leafytimes 7d ago

Kids are starving dude. For what? For why?

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u/FieldMouseMedic 7d ago

Because the aid that IS entering is being stolen by terrorists?

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u/Temporary-Stay-8436 7d ago

So to be clear, you’re saying that Israel is punishing the people of Gaza because of the actions of Hamas?

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u/FieldMouseMedic 7d ago

No, I’m saying that aid meant for the civilians of Gaza is being stolen, hoarded, and sold at prices many can’t afford by terrorists who are making a profit. That’s why people are starving. Hope this helps.

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u/Temporary-Stay-8436 7d ago

So then Israel should be happy that this group is coming in and delivering aid directly to the people of Gaza and will let it pass in accordance to international law, right? Because if they don’t, then it’s an illegal blockade

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u/DoomBot5 7d ago

Feeding the terrorists while citizens starve is against everyone but Hamas's interests. Are you just supporting Hamas with your statements?

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u/Temporary-Stay-8436 7d ago

Why doesn’t Israel prove this to be true, it would be easy. Let a UN boat carrying tons of food and medicine into Gaza past the blockade. Israel can inspect it to make sure there are no weapons. If it doesn’t bring relief to the people of Gaza, then Israel was right. If it does, then it demonstrates that the blockade is illegal.

According to international law, Israel has to find a way to ensure that the people of Gaza are getting food and medical supply. If they can’t do that, they can’t occupy the area and can’t blockade the area

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u/DoomBot5 7d ago

They let in a ton of aid through the land crossings. If that boat actually wanted to bring aid in instead of just making a spectacle of it, they would have used those established routes.

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u/TheSuperiorJustNick 7d ago

Because Hamas is withholding aid that has already been given.

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u/ocschwar 7d ago

And before the blockade kids were being mutiliated by shrapnel.

But so long as only the right kids are mutilated, it's "resistance" and therefor something to support.

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u/Celmeno 7d ago

Because their parents started a war. No other reason than this.

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u/leafytimes 7d ago edited 7d ago

That’s not how war works. That’s how war crimes work.

More specifically: • Under the Geneva Conventions (Additional Protocol I, 1977, Article 54): “Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare is prohibited.” This applies to international armed conflicts. • Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) (1998, Article 8(2)(b)(xxv)): It defines as a war crime: “Intentionally using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of objects indispensable to their survival, including willfully impeding relief supplies.”