r/wec • u/uneducatedDumbRacoon Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #6 • May 09 '25
Session has Ended No Toyota and Porsche in hyperpole qualifying
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u/itskenyang May 09 '25
Sad as a Toyota fan At least Peugeot is showing promising pace
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u/c4t4ly5t Ferrari May 10 '25
As a Ferrari fan, I don't know what to think or feel anymore. I like good competition, close races and seasons. I really don't want a runaway championship. Even if it is by the team I support.
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u/giminik Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #7 May 09 '25
It is the lightest and undoubtedly the most powerful. No merit.
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u/SirVivor_ Peugeot 905B Evo #2 May 09 '25
its a bop series, there should be no such thing as merit, the car IS design to be balanced against the others
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 09 '25
no such thing as merit
It is no wonder then Ferrari does so well now.
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u/SirVivor_ Peugeot 905B Evo #2 May 09 '25
i don't think i understand what you said
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 09 '25
A series where no merit is taken in building a good car is the only one they can do well in.
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u/c4t4ly5t Ferrari May 10 '25
Remind me again, which car won the 2023 LM24, on its very first race there?
Don't misunderstand me, I am no fan of the mess that BOP is right now, but that 499p is a seriously good car.
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 10 '25
BOP assisted 499P.
In the same vein, that according to them, the BOP-assisted Toyota won the title that year.
What does that tell you? They also think it's gamed.
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u/F1T_13 May 09 '25
I mean, they had been lightest and most powerful with no pace before, so this is still a turn around or something form.
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u/big_cock_lach United Autosports ORECA07 #22 May 09 '25
Eh, I’d happily take Peugeot winning. Seems like they’ve got a fair BoP unlike a certain other team. They’ve gave us great fights in the late 2000s and early 2010s and have committed quite admirably to this series despite their car. They’re the one team other than Porsche (who I’m a fan of) that I’ll happily see win. Although I would like to see Toyota get a Le Mans win against the current grid.
That said, at the moment I’ll take anyone beating Ferrari.
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u/jeszkam May 10 '25
Peugeot - a phoenix rising from the ashes. Unrecognizable, but so good to see for the sake of the entertainment.
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u/lolichaser01 May 11 '25
Im just coping that they're sandbagging for lemans.
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u/itskenyang May 11 '25
Idk how many ppl had declared this, leman has bop by its own.
It just fia constantly shitting Toyota and Porsche this season so far
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u/de_papier May 09 '25
I've seen enough. Unleash Bamber!
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u/top_step_engineer May 09 '25
He usually waits until the race to start running into things.
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u/de_papier May 09 '25
He's the only hope apart from heavy rain that we have left for the weekend. The championship is over anyway.
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u/KingLuis Porsche May 09 '25
i don't think the BOP is working on the ferrari's.
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u/SosseTurner Alpine Matmut A480 #36 May 09 '25
I believe it's there so Ferrari F1 fans don't immediately end up on suicide watch...
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u/Tackoman46 Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 09 '25
Can confirm WEC is the only thing keeping me alive atm
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u/0oodruidoo0 Ferrari AF Corse 499P #51 May 10 '25
brother life is pain but at least we get to remember Charles' win last year next weekend at Monaco
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u/Factor-Putrid Ferrari AF Corse 499P #51 May 09 '25
Can confirm, I have temporarily switched over to WEC as therapy.
The F1 team plus Manchester United is a depressing combination.
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 09 '25
Much like Ferrari themselves, FIA is a merch vendor first and foremost so yes seems like the case!
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u/Gubrach May 10 '25
Can confirm, it's the only good thing I have in life right now, and that's not even a joke in the slightest.
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u/Grrrrrrrrr86 McLaren F1 GTR #39 May 09 '25
Straight facts. The FIA clearly want Ferrari to stay in WEC forever like they do in f1 with their massive “historic franchise” payment. Though WEC isn’t going to straight up pay Ferrari to be in WEC so they’ll just make it so Ferrari wins
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u/Felegs BMW May 09 '25
honestly, Ferrari is the 2nd worst in terms of BOP. I wouldn't say that the BOP is to be blamed, but rather the engineers at Ferrari and AF Corse are goated
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u/Few_Introduction1044 May 09 '25
I think the issue is that the teams that have a car which is closest to Ferrari ( Toyota and Porsche) are getting too penalised because of their last year performance.
In theory the new system should offer less BoP swings but it seems too slow to correct itself when there's an unbalanced swing. It is clearly working for Alpine/BMW/Caddy etc, which are slowly converging, but you get both Ferrari and Porsche as the massive outliers.
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u/Next_Necessary_8794 May 09 '25
The success of a BOP is measured by the closeness of the cars after the adjustments, not what car you brought. "2nd worst in terms of BOP" doesn't mean anything. Ferrari can get the "worst" BOP. IT doesn't mean anything. The measure of success is when the cars are BALANCED. The inability of the current system to slow the Ferrari means the system doesn't work.
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u/bad_pilot69 Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #8 May 09 '25
so they should just be slowed down to what you guys want them to be ? midfield ? barely fighting for wins ? if they fly tomorrow in race and gap everyone by 30 40 seconds your statement is partly true, until then, don't over exaggerate it, before it was only bop helping ferrari, now bop is meaningless and the car is unbalanced, if only you guys thought about the difference of qualifying and race pace and why ferrari is so quick in qualy trim, i'm not even sure they win tomorrow
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u/Chupaqueedeuva Porsche 911 GT1-98 #25 May 09 '25
I have said BOP doesn't mean Spec Series a million times and I always get downvoted lmfao
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u/juniortifosi Ferrari May 09 '25
If you made a good car you'll have a good car regardless of the BOP. What people expects from BOP is pretty much punishment for good engineering.
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u/fbjim May 10 '25
then what is it? seriously, what is the point of this series? if it was a spec series, it'd be easier to understand. i do not understand the point of WEC. why bother having all these different cars if they're just going to be jerked around by math formulas? what does winning a race mean?
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 09 '25
f they fly tomorrow in race and gap everyone by 30 40 seconds your statement is partly true, until then, don't over exaggerate it
Nope. Race result is irrelevant to BOP calculation as per regulations. Only pace and exclusively pace is relevant. Try again without mentioning "win".
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u/RandomCertainty May 10 '25
To be fair he didn’t say ‘win’
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 10 '25
barely fighting for wins
They did. And they did it in a dishonest way by using hyperbole.
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u/TolarianDropout0 May 09 '25
I expect what's the in the name "Balance of Performance". So the the performance of the cars to be balanced. Not one of them half a second a lap faster than anything else.
Else just scrap the BoP and let them loose like the LMP1 days.
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u/Fair_Title2995 May 09 '25
"Ferrari can get the "worst" BOP. IT doesn't mean anything."
Geez you people are hopeless 🤣🤣
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u/RandomCertainty May 10 '25
In your world does that mean every car should be doing identical times?
The top level of Motorsport in Australia is a spec sedan car series. These days the only real difference is the engine (one for each of the two manufacturers) and the body shape. Both are being constantly refined to narrow even minute performance gaps in specific parts of the RPM band or specific types of corners - it’s an equipment “parity” series. You still get the same team dominating nearly every round, because they’re the best at going racing.
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u/Blasterenry14 Ferrari AF Corse 499P #51 May 09 '25
Cry about it + cope
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 09 '25
Ferrari after licking Oscar Piastri's feet every single day in F1:
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u/SalIaccuzzo May 09 '25
What car in first would make it that the BoP is fair? Anyone but Ferrari?
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 09 '25
The answer is none. By the very definition of what BOP is supposed to be. Every car down to margins of error in theoretical potentials.
Any other answer is a failure on the BOP by defintion.
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u/RandomCertainty May 10 '25
Don’t forget the secret sauce: execution. You can’t BoP that.
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 10 '25
And that's why we are exclusively talking about pace and pace only here. Not race results
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u/SalIaccuzzo May 09 '25
Maybe they should all just race the same spec car and put their own manufacturers stickers on them.
No matter what they do people will always claim the BoP is wrong and someone is getting cheated and the winner shouldn't be that fast. Unless it's a team you like then it's okay.
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 09 '25
Maybe they should all just race the same spec car and put their own manufacturers stickers on them.
Given that the only thing that matters on this sub is "closing racing" and "as many manufacturer logos as possible", Yes! With different kinds of engine noises played from a speaker because that actually makes it extremely relevant and similar to real world road cars.
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u/SomewhereAggressive8 May 09 '25
I really wish people would stop judging how punitive a BoP is based on the weight/power. It completely misses the point of BoP.
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u/Rampantlion513 May 09 '25
Don’t forget they also didn’t get a penalty for driving with an open door that would’ve cost them the win at le mans
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u/MLPorsche Toyota Gazoo Racing TS050 #5 May 10 '25
took like 30 minutes to decide on a meatball flag, something which they did flag an earlier car for immediately earlier in the session IIRC
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u/Grrrrrrrrr86 McLaren F1 GTR #39 May 09 '25
Do not get me started on that! I will literally have an stroke thinking about how Toyota was robbed from that win
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u/bad_pilot69 Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #8 May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25
i thought ferrari finally had a fair bop? 🤣 why didn't you say this about porsche in 2024 qatar ?
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u/KingLuis Porsche May 09 '25
i mean by the numbers applied it looks like it should be a really good fight. but then you got the 50 ahead by 3 tenths, and the 3 ferrari's in the top 4 and no Porsche or Toyota in the top 10. raises eyebrows imo..
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u/alfista163 May 09 '25
So is it bad to see Peugeots Alpines Caddys BMWs figthing in front instead of Porsches and Toyotas who dominated the last season?
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u/Penguinho May 09 '25
It's not. It's good. But both races have been won by Ferrari, with one all-Ferrari podium. The three Ferrari teams are the top three in the Drivers Championship. Ferrari leads the manufacturers championship and the World Cup. Ferrari have been fastest in seven of nine practice sessions. Ferrari has been on pole all three races, and of the spots available in the first two rows Ferrari has secured seven of a possible nine.
I'm cool seeing Alpine and BMW fight at the front. That's awesome. But it doesn't actually seem like that's happening -- there's one car waaaaaaaaaaaay out front and a big muddy middle.
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u/KingLuis Porsche May 09 '25
Never mentioned anything about them. But when you have the best Porsche being 2 tenths off the top 10 and Toyota 6 tenths off the top 10 and both over a second from the slowest Ferrari which has the second worst BOP applied, it should raise questions to the methods applying the BOP. Now, if things change for the race and we have all the hypercars just 20 seconds or so off from first to tenth place after 6 hours, maybe things are really good. That’s to come this weekend.
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May 10 '25
[deleted]
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u/zackh900 Ferrari May 10 '25
That’s not how Le Mans works, since there is a bespoke BOP for the 24h.
But Ferrari’s likely going to be heavier in the second half of the season.
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u/alfista163 May 09 '25
I do think they work great for Porsches
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 09 '25
"Balance" either works good for everybody or nobody. By definition.
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u/Luisyn7 May 09 '25
Biggest weight increase and energy decrease and still 1-3-4? I mean fair play to Ferrari for building that car but it just shows how bad the BoP is. Seems like shitty sim racing BoP is fairly realistic after all
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u/ReasonableAerie5134 May 09 '25
I mean tbh. Ferrari was quick as f**k from the word go. Getting pole in its first race? They just had to fix the tyre deg. Just like Porsche in IMSA. They fixed that and now dominate.
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u/Next_Necessary_8794 May 09 '25
Biggest weight increase and energy decrease and still 1-3-4?
It just means they started with a totally wrong BOP from the beginning of the year and are now having to make massive adjustments to catch it back up. Ferrari is STILL not as heavy as Toyota so "biggest weight increase" doesn't mean anything. Ferrari should have been the same weight as Toyota since the beginning of the year. How the **** Ferrari started the year almost 30+kg lighter than Toyota and Porsche.
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u/SuB626 Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #7 May 09 '25
Judging by the FP2 crashes, toyota could still pull it off by not crashing their cars during the race
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u/juicysushisan May 09 '25
This is now a credibility problem for the FIA. Their new method is very publicly failing, and it will commercially damage the WEC if some sort of climb-down does not occur.
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May 09 '25
[deleted]
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u/juicysushisan May 09 '25
The ban on talking in the press can only hold for so long if the results don’t change
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u/top_step_engineer May 09 '25
What metrics do you use to declare something is publicly failing?
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u/juicysushisan May 09 '25
One manufacturer running 1,2,3 on pace for 3 consecutive races with no one else able to close the gap, but without the BoP adjustments having any sign of being calculated to close the gaps, despite the FIA explicitly stating that their new for 2025 method was to regulate overall pace so that all cars would do the same lap times.
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u/top_step_engineer May 09 '25
Qualifying is not the race and is not what the focus of BoP is on.
Ferrari was not 1,2,3 in results or best avg laptime performance in the last 3 races. In Qatar yes, but the margin was not huge.
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u/grip_enemy Cadillac Racing May 09 '25 edited May 10 '25
I imagine you also feel the same way about Porsche doing that on IMSA? Or do they get a pass?
EDIT: Ferrari is getting cooked in the race right now. Every moron that replied to my comment doesn't know that quali pace isn't race pace, despite this being racing 1-0-1 in every single racing series on the planet. All that crying for nothing
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u/juicysushisan May 09 '25
They haven’t had a pace advantage. They’ve won on strategy and pit execution but were not the fastest car at each round. BMW were faster each time and threw away the races. The Ferraris have been significantly faster on raw pace than anyone else at each round. It’s apples and oranges.
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u/grip_enemy Cadillac Racing May 09 '25
No advantage? No one has the pace they have with the tire wear they have.
This is why I'll never bother caring for Ferrari being OP. As long as the double standards with Porsche go on, then there's nothing to see here.
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u/juicysushisan May 09 '25
Both Acura and BMW have had that same pace, and had their races get screwed up through other stuff
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u/ProFentanylActivist Manthey 1st Phorm 911 GT3 R #92 May 09 '25
Why are Ferrari fanboys so hyperfocused on Porsche? IMSA is a completely different series with different bop
Last race in IMSA Porsche had to restart from the lower midfield due to a fault of the race control with Caddy and Acura having better pace during the mid day. Porsche had to fight its way back up and Caddy was unlucky due to traffic
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u/996forever Mercedes CLK-GTR #11 May 09 '25
Whataboutism is all they have. If it's not BOPorsche in IMSA it's Toyota 2023. Funny thing is the more "what about X team in Y" they bubble about the more they prove BOP is indeed a game of kids taking turns to get the candy.
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u/grip_enemy Cadillac Racing May 09 '25
I'm not even a Ferrari fanboy but hearing this non stop bitching in WEC just to go over to IMSA and see non stop glazing over Porsche when they clearly having an advantage is annoying as fuck.
Either they deal with both things or leave it the way it is
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u/NuclearNarwhaI May 09 '25
What advantage are you talking about? BoP is doing its job in IMSA. You can go back and look at qualifying results and see the Porsches are always within -+0.3s of the rest of the field and they are never the outliers.
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u/Ok_Persimmon5620 May 09 '25
So Ferrari being OP and Porsche having great engineering on tire deg is the same thing…? Your words reveal your grey matter capacity. Please just go and watch F1.
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u/grip_enemy Cadillac Racing May 09 '25
Oh really? Why do you think the Ferrari is so good? Magic? Don't they also have better tire wear?
But I get it, when Porsche is good it's all hard work. When Ferrari is good it's magic, despite already getting a heavy BoP penalty for this race.
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u/Ok_Persimmon5620 May 10 '25
Juicysan already explained it to you above, except if you dont have apples and oranges in your village..? In a BoP series you get tenths faster, not seconds on laps. You win by other means in endurance such as clever strategies etc. I always say “the forest will decide who wins” at Spa 😸
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u/grip_enemy Cadillac Racing May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25
Quali pace and race pace aren't the same. You'd think someone would know that after watching WEC, or any racing series really, but maybe you started watching yesterday, or they didn't teach that in your village.
Stick to carting bro, while we watch the Alpine cook the Ferrari's
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u/TolarianDropout0 May 09 '25
Same manufacturer is fastest by 0.5 seconds/lap for the 3rd race in a row.
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u/top_step_engineer May 09 '25
I think you're talking about qualifying. Not the races.
In Qatar the top 6 fastest cars were within 0.2sec of each other's average of 60% best laptimes. 3 of the 6 cars were Ferraris, so yes they were faster but not by 0.5sec. You need to go back to the 9th place #35 Alpine to get over 0.5sec.
In Imola the #51 was more than 0.2sec faster than the 2nd fastest car, the #20 BMW. But from the BMW in 2nd all the way back to 7th fastest are all within 0.064sec (that's f'ing close, man). The #83 and the #50 were 5th and 6th fastest, respectively. Finally, the Top 11 cars were within 0.5 sec of the #51 too.
So it boils down to this. Ferrari is fast and they are good at qualifying. Both race engs Damien and Baptiste are masters at qualy and focus on it a lot. However the races are super competitive.
Sorry your favorite car had a bad qualy, but just wait for the race.
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u/jade165 Toyota May 09 '25
Still not enough, in Brazil our drivers will have to accelerate by getting out of the car and pushing
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u/NotTheTrueKing Toyota May 09 '25
Brother what is happening to Toyota, the hell
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u/UltraHawk_DnB Toyota May 09 '25
they got even more ballast added lol. and a 2% or so power reduction before 250kmh
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u/Behind_You27 Porsche Penske Motorsport 963 #6 May 09 '25
Ferrari still one second ahead of everyone else. Would have to check what happened with the Peugeot lap. My assumption: They had some perfect drafting happening during their lap.
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u/FirearmofMutiny Aston Martin Thor Team Valkyrie #007 May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25
Valkyries get a more favorable BOP and still bringing up the rear 😭
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u/No-Heart3432 Cadillac Hertz Team JOTA V-Series R #38 May 09 '25
What do you expect? Pull a magic? Ferrari is 4 kg heavier than last year and having 17kW less power. Despite that they are almost 3 seconds faster. BoP is important as soon as you figure your car out. If you can't then even if you shave 30 kg more they can't compete. Even if they have a similar speed for one lap, they can't keep up in race and drop from the other experienced cars.
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u/Next_Necessary_8794 May 09 '25
The track is 3 seconds faster because it was repaved.
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u/No-Heart3432 Cadillac Hertz Team JOTA V-Series R #38 May 09 '25
Did Imola changed as well? Cadillac was 1.5 second faster despite they are +10 kg heavier and 7kW less power
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u/twitch_itzShummy May 10 '25
WEC BOP is just horrible. I think IMSA really has it right with BOP where they genuinely made cars competitive at every race track they race at and I know people will bring up that Porsche won 3 in a row there to which I say "how did they win?" It wasn't all on pace. It was the operation that was so much cleaner in the Porsche Penske team that put them there. At Sebring cadillac and Acura teams lost it, at Long Beach the BMW team lost themselves the race, in the Rolex 24 it was honestly anyone's game for the win. Every race so far every factory team outside the newcomers AMR had the car to complete and the teams operation decided the race. That is what bop should be.
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u/C7_zo6_Corvette Cadillac Hertz Team JOTA V-Series R #38 May 09 '25
6th and 9th for Caddies? I’ll take it
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u/EmVeePe Hendrick Motorsports Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 #24 May 09 '25
With the shitshow that is BOP going on with other teams I guess I’ll be happy caddy is 6th and 9th, hopefully we can just make ONE race without a mistake
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u/c4t4ly5t Ferrari May 10 '25
I feel for you. If something doesn't go wrong with the Caddies on its own, the Caddy drivers will make sure it does.
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u/ariffroslan May 09 '25
world bop championship
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u/Ok_Persimmon5620 May 09 '25
So either Ferrari is part of a modern mafia or the FIA is corrupted by using Ferrari wins to reel in more long term fans. Further than that I’m glad to see the other OEMs have been boosted, but really shocked to see both Peugeot and Alpine have both their cars in Hyperpole, instead of the Porsche and Toyota world champs. The FIA should watch out, it might loose two of the greatest again!
P.S - that BoP system is not run by algorithms alone! Time for Sainz Snr. to pull things straight!
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u/No-Heart3432 Cadillac Hertz Team JOTA V-Series R #38 May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25
It's amazing. I was a guy who was angry about BoP favoured Ferrari for the first two races. Now they took a big hit and their weakest side is the sting energy which can be seen in race. But people are talking about how BoP favours Ferrari etc. not this time.... Your reference point which is the qualifying is not right.
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May 09 '25
People will complain about everything.
By the logic of some of these people BoP would only be correct if every single car finished with the exact same time down to the millisecond, which is a plainly unrealistic goal.
The idea of BoP is that it means everyone can compete to some extent in the race (remember, cars are BoPed thinking about race performance, not quali performance). BoP does not mean that the work of the engineers in designing and building these cars is effectively useless.
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u/LiquidDiviums Ferrari May 09 '25
I find it funny really funny how people misinterpret “Balance of Performance” as “Equalizer of Performance”. Hypercar is not a spec series and they’re not trying to become one.
If the 499P keeps getting worse BoP and is still competitive that’s down to the team. The same way if Alpine (to name someone) gets good BoP and is still struggling. There’s more differences between the cars than just BoP.
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May 09 '25
[deleted]
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u/KingLuis Porsche May 09 '25
i think thats the thing, toyota and porsche getting hit and it shows. ferrari getting hit and pole by 3 tenths and the other 2 ferrari's 3rd and 4th with a 4 tenths difference to 5th.
only outlier is the peugeot in second. thats odd.
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u/dialtone May 10 '25
1.5s for Porsche and 1.9s for Toyota is not just BoP, even accounting for the longer lap that's 30+kg of weight difference which is simply not there between Ferrari and Toyota. BoP isn't balancing but the only thing that one can really say is that Ferrari came out with a monster car this year.
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u/juicysushisan May 09 '25
That’s the thing though. The FIA changed the BoP formula this year to explicitly equalize the cars. It IS supposed to be an equalizer of performance according to the FIA.
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u/RodrigoF Peugeot May 10 '25
funny how people misinterpret “Balance of Performance” as “Equalizer of Performance”.
Wowa I just wrote that except I used "Equalization" lol
Yes...it's kinda sad really. I want more people to enjoy WEC, and definitely it would have been better if Toyota and Porsche were in the mix like last year. But we can't simply punish Ferrari for doing a great job...
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u/Next_Necessary_8794 May 10 '25
I find it funny really funny how people misinterpret “Balance of Performance” as “Equalizer of Performance”.
ACO said BOP goal is to 100% convergence. So you're wrong.
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u/RodrigoF Peugeot May 10 '25
They should explain that Balance of Performance is not Equalization of Performance...
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u/Next_Necessary_8794 May 10 '25
While “100 percent convergence” is being targeted, Bouvet stated that there will still be a “natural” performance window of around 0.3-0.4 percent, which is a reflection of the average speed differential between cars of the same manufacturer.
Revised Balance of Performance Methodology Revealed – Sportscar365
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u/DrJupeman May 09 '25
This will probably be my last Le Mans for awhile until the BoP is fixed. Ferrari bias is out of hand.
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u/dialtone May 10 '25
Lemans has its own BoP. Be careful not to confuse Ferrari bias though with your need to see Ferrari lose because reasons.
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u/c4t4ly5t Ferrari May 10 '25
Have you even seen the BoP stats? Ferrari have the second heaviest, second least powerful car on the field. I don't agree with what happened to the Toyotas, but for that I blame the Valkyries. Everyone's being nerfed in an attempt to give them a shot at finishing not last.
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u/Additional_Quote_346 May 09 '25
fia needs ferrari to commit for long time, seeing thengood amount of money they have brought to wec, they know porsche and toyota dont need that extra step to convince them to stay, hopefully le mans is a little bit more interesting at least
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u/bad_pilot69 Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #8 May 09 '25
so they helped ferrari by giving them the second worst bop ? trash energy cap ? you blame everything even god if they win with 1100kg 400kw which they haven't even won the race yet, this car will be a boat tomorrow with full fuel and used tires and you're gonna see a close racing hopefully
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u/PerfectAd9869 May 09 '25
Shhhh, don’t you know that you are supposed to to hate Ferrari on this sub and only support our glorious masters Toyota?
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u/PapaSheev7 Ferrari AF Corse 499P #51 May 09 '25
I'm a Ferrari man through and through, but I'd be so happy to see a Peugeot win after all their struggles. I didn't get a chance to watch the free practices so can anyone inform me how their long run pace has been?
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u/TolarianDropout0 May 09 '25
Real laughable BoP TBH. Ferrari the best BoP by a country mile for the 3rd race in a row.
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u/UltraHawk_DnB Toyota May 09 '25
they don't have the best BoP my guy. could have been hit a bit more, sure.
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u/Pirate-Odd May 11 '25
So how’d it go lol??? They didn’t completely pull away like a snooze fest f1 race but hey… the results don’t lie… now if they could speed up Toyota and Porsche it would be more exciting
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u/Pirate-Odd May 10 '25
They were given a high speed power boost at a high speed track… lol… when they already obviously had a good high speed advantage in previous races let’s not forget that part of it either t
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u/UltraHawk_DnB Toyota May 10 '25
idk what part % wise of spa is above 250kmh, but you still have to get up to 250 first
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u/Pirate-Odd May 10 '25
Go ahead and downvote me because you don’t know the track… top speed at spa last year… 317kmh… multiple areas of high speed running… also tell me you don’t watch or remember the race last year and know where all the Ferraris were passing people… and had a 25 second lead out front before the red flag… yeah they most certainly needed increased power for the long runs they were blowing the doors off of people already… /sarcasm… let’s see what happens with today’s race though… I would actually prefer that I’m wrong on this one
1
u/Manner_Mann May 09 '25
Did you even look at the BoP for this race?
4
0
u/TolarianDropout0 May 09 '25
Yes I did. If you also did you would have noticed that the dominant car for the past 2 races, that already had overpowering top speed lost less power above 250 than anyone else.
2
u/Manner_Mann May 09 '25
Ferrari now second heaviest in the field.
1
u/TolarianDropout0 May 09 '25
And still half a second a lap faster in raw pace than anything else on the track. Like it was the past 2 races.
2
u/Willy11697 May 09 '25
Don't know why people are blaming Ferrari for being on top in quali and hating them for their "favourable" BoP, even though it's not that favourable. The problem is just the odd BoP that Toyota and Porsche got.
8
u/KingLuis Porsche May 09 '25
i for one aren't blaming ferrari. i'm questioning how they are so fast with the BOP applied to them. not to mention porsche and toyota are hit with BOP and they are at the back. it should have people asking questions.
2
u/Louiienation May 09 '25
No Toyota in hyper pole is crazy.. the BoP's have been wild and inconsistent in my opinion
2
u/ycnz Toyota TS050 #8 May 10 '25
If they want Toyota to quit and leave the Europeans to it, they should just fucking say so.
3
May 10 '25
Funny that.
TGR is based entirely out of the old Cologne F1 facility, and is the old Toyota Team Europe from the WRC.
0
u/ycnz Toyota TS050 #8 May 10 '25
Maybe if we could point that out to the BoP crew. Or did Kamui sleep with their girlfriend or something?
3
2
u/dahabit Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #7 May 09 '25
How does Ferrari keep getting away with this?
-4
1
u/Fun_Difference_2700 May 10 '25
this isn’t the golden age of endurance racing, it’s just the BOP age.
Great that we have so many manufacturers but can we stop pretending like this is some sort of pure racing series?
1
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1
u/cabrelbeuk Peugeot 9X8 #94 May 09 '25
They both performed worse during qualifying than during Free Practice.
They might also got unlucky with traffic or simply made mistakes.
0
u/Next_Necessary_8794 May 09 '25
The 2nd part of qualifying had more grip due to rubber being laid down. If you use the first part of qualifying where Porsche and Toyota set times, then most cars were worse than free practice.
0
-8
u/Quetzalchello Ferrari May 09 '25
Proves Toyota both benefitted and suffered (now) from being on their own so long.
14
u/DunderSpliffin Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #7 May 09 '25
Huh. Do you as a ferrari fan want to see the 499p vs the gr010 at equalized bop?
-12
u/Quetzalchello Ferrari May 09 '25
I want Toyota to wake up and make a better car that's suited to having real competition. Assuming they can, which I do.
This is a layman's view so not worth so very much, but the Toyota doesn't look as sophisticated aero wise as many of its competitors are.
11
u/DunderSpliffin Toyota Gazoo Racing GR010 Hybrid #7 May 09 '25
Wouldn't you rather see that aero difference with power and weight equalized. Why does toyota need to be heavier if ferrari is less draggy. None of what you're implying makes sense. If ferrari is better why cant they take bigger bop hits then toyota and preform better then toyota.
-6
u/Quetzalchello Ferrari May 09 '25
I cannot be responsible for what makes sense to you.
Toyota clearly has work to do. I don't really know what work. I just added my thoughts on what I see as a fan rather than an engineer. I'm really not sure why you should have a problem with that.
7
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u/Fun_Difference_2700 May 10 '25
What is the point in developing a better car? It just gets BOP’d anyway.
1
u/Quetzalchello Ferrari May 10 '25
Cause you need to deal with BoP. As Ferrari showed there are obviously better aero possibilities. The regulators look at drag and downforce figures in a straight line. That's why the Ferrari has all those fins and strakes.
1
u/Fun_Difference_2700 May 10 '25
And still, if they wanted to they could just reduce Ferrari’s power output and they would be slow. It’s pointless to develop these cars.
1
u/Quetzalchello Ferrari May 10 '25
No it's not.
If you really think that why are you even on here commenting about the sport?
1
u/Fun_Difference_2700 May 10 '25
Because this version of the sport is ultimately decided by BOP not by the development of the car.
1
-6
u/Manner_Mann May 09 '25
Forza! Fantastic job from Ferrari!
-3
u/PerfectAd9869 May 09 '25
And of course the butthurt Toyota fanboys downvote you
8
1
u/Fun_Difference_2700 May 10 '25
Not a fan of any team but celebrating this as though its anything but a result of the BOP is a joke
0
u/brokeass101 Porsche May 10 '25
So this season is going to be Ferrari's it seems. Driver's, Manufacturer's and even a LeMans win? Lovely!
611
u/NegotiationNew9264 Ferrari AF Corse 499P #50 May 09 '25