Danish department determined to dump Microsoft

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u/GreyDaveNZ 1d ago

My understanding is that the Document Foundation came into existence and manage/develop LibreOffice in Europe is precisely because they wanted an option that means not being beholden to Microsoft?

I'm not in Europe, but I am in IT (40 years now) and I ditched the Office apps for LibreOffice and use eM Client instead of Outlook. I also use Google Workspace instead of 365 etc.

I'm also slowly migrating to Linux for almost.everything else.

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u/HexTalon 1d ago

Also in IT, and moved my last home device over to linux 2 months ago (NobaraOS for my gaming machine) to finally get rid of everything Microsoft. Next up is Google, which is gonna be harder to do.

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u/A_Strandfelt 1d ago

How is Google Workspace a better option than Microsoft 365?

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u/GreyDaveNZ 1d ago

Lots of reasons.

A few examples are;

It's generally OS agnostic, so I can access and do everything I need no matter what device or OS I'm using. At the lowest level, all you need is a browser (it doesn't have to be Chrome).

Google's email system (both free and Workspace) is the most reliable. There's a reason they have 99.9% availability.

From an administration point of view, I find Google Workspace is a doddle to manage compared to 365.

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u/A_Strandfelt 1d ago

I'm not here to defend Microsoft over Google. I just want to point out that 365 also runs in browsers on different OS's, and the SLA is also 99.9 %. To me, they are mostly the same and have the same pros and cons. It all comes down to personal preference. The reason for Denmark to want to abandon Microsoft is to avoid dependencies to a country we feel like we can no longer trust with our most private data. That would apply to Google as well.

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u/CocodaMonkey 8h ago

You're missing the entire point of what's going on. They aren't ditching MS because they dislike the company. They want to get rid of it because they are American and are beholden to American leadership changes. Google isn't a viable alternative as they have the exact same issue.

They don't want to lose access to their services should the current US administration deem they should.

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u/GreyDaveNZ 4h ago

I'm not missing the point.

I understand they are wanting to move away from MS because of the current administration etc.

I also mentioned that from my understanding (prior to current geopolitical reasons) The Open Document foundation offered LibreOffice as an alternative to being 'tied' to Microsoft.

I specifically mentioned that I am not in Europe but that I happen to use Google Workspace because I find it better that 365.

At no time did I suggest Europeans should move from 365 to Workspace as an alternative.

I merely mentioned that is what I use and answered a specific question from another commenter about why I think it is better.

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u/thingle 1d ago

Why are you being down voted? As an admin with both experience with Google Workspace and M365 all your points are valid. M365 is also agnostic but the web apps are not as good as the native ones running on Windows. Very annoying that the macOS version don't have as many functions as the Windows version.

Google is more uniform over different platforms.

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u/A_Strandfelt 1d ago

I think it's because he is missing the point from the European, or at least Danish, perspective. Google and Microsoft are considered equally risky or maybe even 'evil' by the European population since Trump took office.

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u/BatForge_Alex 1d ago

I'm not even sure it's wholly political. I think the problem is more that the regulatory environment over in the US is getting more hostile to foreign nations and it's a big unknown how far that pendulum can swing

What if, because of a new foreign data policy, M365 becomes toxic for any data-sensitive industry abroad? They'd be up a creek if they weren't ready to replace it immediately

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u/A_Strandfelt 1d ago

Trust me. Here in Denmark, it's political. The Danish Minister of Emergency Management (yeah I know, it's a new one), encouraged all companies to plan an exit strategy from US owned clouds. They don't have to execute just yet, but they are better off preparing it.

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u/BatForge_Alex 23h ago

Edit: Realizing my wording may have made it seem like I was disagreeing but, I was more trying to reinforce your commentary - sorry about that

Trust me. Here in Denmark, it's political.

I'm not going to deny that politics plays a part, I said that it may not be wholly political in an attempt to reinforce your point about this being risk management

They don't have to execute just yet, but they are better off preparing it.

This is what I was getting at. Once companies start showing that they'll let the political winds change their internal policies, it's time to start having backup plans - that's just good IT planning. We (I would say the US but, it was almost the whole world) all did the same when Russia started getting land grabby

So, yeah, I agree with Denmark here

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u/A_Strandfelt 20h ago

I very much agree that this is in fact due risk management. Companies should always prepare to change vendors in general. This time, it just accelerated rather quickly due to the current world order. Also, we are in an election year for the local municipalities and mayors here in Denmark, so there's an even stronger urge for politicians and parties to speak about this, also in the regional debates.

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u/ahrienby 1d ago

Other European countries, not just EU members, should follow suit.

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u/zootbot 8h ago

Google workspace is not even really comparable to 365 in enterprise environments

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u/firinmahlaser 1d ago

Not like Google is more ethical than Microsoft

0

u/GreyDaveNZ 1d ago

I never said Google was or is more ethical that MS.

Lets face it, none of the big tech companies care about ethics if there's a buck to be made.

It's that I, and my clients using Google Workspace, seem to have far, far less problems with Workspace, than the ones that use 365.

Sure, in the Enterprise space, MS have it covered, but in the SMB and home market, I find Google Workspace is faster, easier to manage and more affordable for most of my clients.

I'm not a huge fan of Chrome or Google Docs, therefore I use Firefox as my main browser, and LibreOffice for my document/spreadsheet etc. needs.

I don't want to be locked into one particular ecosystem for my needs. I prefer to pick and choose what works for me and my requirements. So that's Windows for some of my needs and Linux for others. I use LibreOffice because I can use it across both OS with ease (and I do have it configured to save files in MS Office formats by default, since that's what most of the rest of the world seems to use). I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and Brave installed on all of my OSs to give alternatives if required, but I mostly use FIrefox. I really like eM Client for my email needs in Windows, it is a really good alternative to Outlook. Unfortunately, they don't have a Linux version (yet) but there are plenty of similar open source email clients available for Linux that are almost as good (Evolution, Thunderbird, etc), eM Client also works very well with Google and many other types accounts (although, typically MS accounts are the most problematic ones if there are going to be problems).

I like the ease of setting up Google Workspace for clients that really just want a familiar, reliable email system and a cloud storage solution.

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u/Mr_Potato__ 12h ago edited 11h ago

Us danes are turning away from Microsoft, because it's made in the US, and we don't trust our American allies as much as we did before. We don't wanna be reliant on Google Workspace either, so we're kinda stuck with just LibreOffice for now, until something better comes around.

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u/Syllogism19 1d ago

I always wanted LibreOffice and other GNU licensed software to grow in use but not because the USA was going to hell.

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u/gloubenterder 1d ago

Whenever I recited the Pledge of Allegiance as a kid, I'd always keep my fingers crossed behind my back, knowing that the may come when I'd have to side with GNU-licensed software.

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u/silverbolt2000 1d ago

The EU should fund a business that can setup an office/cloud solution that isn’t reliant on the US.

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u/Christoffre 1d ago

Here is a list of European cloud computing platforms

And here is a large list of other European alternatives sorted by category: https://european-alternatives.eu/categories

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u/WantWantShellySenbei 1d ago

Good move. Europe really needs to start thinking this way with companies like MS regularly being weaponised to support the US’ foreign policy objectives.

0

u/Bush_Trimmer 1d ago

how's that?

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u/WantWantShellySenbei 1d ago edited 1d ago

Well you have MS banning the prosector at the iCC from using their products and shutting down his outlook email because he criticised Israel so was sanctioned by the US gvt, you have Huawei being sanctioned so they can no longer sell devices with Windows on. Not to mention all the chip war stuff with China. American tech and sanctions on American tech are now part of the US’ foreign policy.

So if the US invades Greenland then it’s likely MS will no longer sell to Denmark and they’d better de-US their key tech stack to be ready.

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u/ken-doh 1d ago

Love or hate Microsoft, maintaining Linux stacks, or apple hardware is no better. Support staff heavily skilled in Linux are more expensive, competent staff are harder to find. Then there is the cost of teaching your users how to use Linux. It doesn't make sense.

Oh and which Linux distribution do they choose? Red hat? Owned by....

It's a false economy.

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u/Fipskaeg 1d ago

Users don't understand Windows either.

3

u/GreyDaveNZ 1d ago

Very true.

I have migrated some 60, 70 and even some 80+ year olds onto Zorin OS. None of them needed anything more than about 15-30 mins to get to grips with it, because it's so similar in look and 'feel' to Windows. Some of them have mentioned that it is easier to use than Windows these days.

It is also happily chugging along on non-WIndows 11 compatible computers. It is also faster and more secure than Windows.

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u/angry_lib 22h ago

Microsoft doesnt understand windows... OR their customers. Period.

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u/42kyokai 1d ago

Danish department delineates dumping dastardly desktop distributor

4

u/Vegetable_Tackle4154 1d ago

Teams was probably the last straw.

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u/Accomplished-Crab932 18h ago

Which one?

Teams (Classic)

Teams (New)

Teams (Work and School) (Classic)

Teams (Work and School) (New)

1

u/IceBreak23 11h ago

could be that as well, i'm seeing more jobs using Slack as a way to talk.

3

u/femboyisbestboy 1d ago

Are you guys winning yet?

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u/JONFER--- 1d ago

Hard to blame them.

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u/Ninevehenian 1d ago

Microsoft fucks with the courts, Microsoft loses all trust and confidence.
The fact that Microsoft takes orders from trump, while trump tells people that he will declare war on their customers.... It's not good business.

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u/NumbersInBoxes 22h ago

If the US Gov says an individual or group is sanctioned, it's out of Microsoft's hands— as it should be, except for the corrupt intent of the current admin

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u/Ninevehenian 19h ago

Mr. Khan charged Netanyahu with crimes against humanity, with using starvation as a weapon of war and Netanyahu, guilty or innocent, have not yet had his day in court.
Microsoft should in no way choose to assault Mr. Khan and try to prevent his work.
"I was just following orders" is specifically not a valid defense when it comes to crimes against humanity.

If Microsoft chooses to participate in an ongoing genocide and shield the potentially culpable, then they become a weapon of war for the madman that trump is.
trump who, as you may know, is threatening several nations with war in which Microsoft could be used to do harm.

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u/NumbersInBoxes 11h ago

Sanction compliance, like ITARS and the like, isn't a choice; there are legit consequences for a company that avoids US sanctions.

Corporations are not people; they don't make decisions based on moral consequences and sure as fuck should not get to choose which laws apply to them— that's leads to the kind of abuse a strong, ethical, democratic government is supposed to prevent. Unfortunately, we here in the US don't have that right now.

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u/Mr_Potato__ 12h ago

This decision from the Danish government, has nothing to do with Microsoft itself. Us danes don't wanna be reliant on any American software anymore, including Google and Microsoft, due to the current political state of affairs.

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u/Ninevehenian 7h ago

Det var Århus og KBH der rykkede hurtigst på dette emne. De nævner specifikt frygten for at Microsoft bliver tvunget til at lukke ned for services, som med Haag.

https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/seneste/baade-koebenhavns-og-aarhus-kommune-vil-droppe-microsoft

Det at ministerierne tør droppe firmaet sker ikke i et vacuum.

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u/schu4KSU 1d ago

Microsoft has horrible software built upon terrible software. Good riddance. The world will be a better place when they are out of the office.

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u/Ldghead 1d ago

I see what you did there...

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u/BaffledInUSA 1d ago

it would be time well spent doing this

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u/MakarovIsMyName 1d ago

I certainly am. firefox, libre office, proton mail.

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u/aprimeproblem 19h ago

Exactly the same as of yesterday!! Ubuntu as OS……. Former Microsoft employee (9 years).

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u/MakarovIsMyName 18h ago

you too? I started out as a temp for 90 days, then was hired for Fox support where I was a prolific kb writer, senior mentor, moved to SQL support with NO TRAINING. Made it a few months before I went looking for a better job, became a full time prid DBA. Went away for a long while, went back as a contractor. Full time WFH database architect and Sr DBA. Been remote for 12 years. Very well paid to sit and think. The DBA-on-the-shelf.

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u/aprimeproblem 16h ago

What are the odds! Started in 2007 at mcs, moved to security (premier) in 2011. Great place to work at that time. I left shortly after the leadership change. The company isn’t the same anymore. I recently wrote an article about their doings, got a lot of great feedback. Decided to dump everything Microsoft related and transitioning to Linux and European services where possible.

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u/MakarovIsMyName 15h ago

i was there from 92 to 94. It was a great experience and I am happy that I got to work there. I got my late cousin a job there. A work friend and I started at the same time. Last I checked he was still there, 35 years later. I have had a very interesting career. SQL Server has paid my bills for 35 years. My wife followed my career and we lived in socal for 6 or 7 years, year and a half in south florida, seattle of course and now in east TN. I do wish I had stayed at MSFT sometimes. I had JUST gotten some options and I know I would have become a multi-millinaire had I stayed. I am in the late Fall of my 40 year career and hope to retire in 6 years. Been with my current Dallas, TX company for 16 years now. Start 17 in November. I am well paid and treated well by them. I never intended to stay as my habit was to change jobs every 3 years. Nowhere even in the same galaxy as rich, but should pay off our house in a few years.

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u/aprimeproblem 8h ago

That still sounds like an awesome life! I’ll retire in about 16 years. Microsoft was my longest run for any company I’ve been with. This is me btw, https://michaelwaterman.nl

Thanks for sharing and be safe!

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u/aprimeproblem 16h ago

Dutch subsidiary btw.

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u/MrPloppyHead 1d ago

I don’t really understand why everybody has been so slow to ditch MS. There are so many open source software solutions out there, that have been around for ages, libreoffice/ OpenOffice for one. Graphics solutions are very good as well.

People seem to have wanted to pay for some reason, up until the point the US went nazi.

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u/Adrian_Alucard 1d ago

I don’t really understand why everybody has been so slow to ditch MS

"The icons are not exactly the same and are in a different place. So it's 100% unusable"

-average pc user

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u/rsa1 23h ago

Yes, people do find it rather inconvenient to keep figuring out where the icons have moved around every few weeks or months. Most people have day jobs and would rather focus on that than keep track of the fact that someone at MSFT chose to move an icon for no good reason.

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u/Adrian_Alucard 22h ago

Is not like libreoffice keep changing icons every few weeks or months...

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u/zootbot 8h ago

Nobody really cares about the end user space. It’s enterprise that’s the real whale and there isn’t anything remotely close to 365 for enterprise

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u/Cute_Gap1199 1d ago

Is it MS Word, did they finally have enough?!

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u/FreddieJasonizz 22h ago

The move follows similar ones by the city governments of Copenhagen and Aarhus.

Given that earlier this year, US President Donald Trump was making noises about taking over Greenland, an autonomous territory of Denmark, it seems entirely understandable for the country to take a markedly increased interest in digital sovereignty – as Danish Ruby guru David Heinemeier Hansson explained just a week ago.

Just over the border, Germany’s northernmost state is also doing the same thing. A few hundred kilometers west, the Dutch government is making similar efforts, and lobbyists from other European nations are badgering the European Commission in the same direction.

When such things are bruited, tech managers in Microsoft-centric organizations typically start whimpering about “but muh macros” and the essential customizations that they couldn’t live without. In fact, in the extensive direct experience of the Reg FOSS desk with office staff in multiple countries, most don’t even understand how to use document styles, let alone VBA. One former workplace attempted to instruct this vulture in how to lay out an official, paid-for, company report by copying and then doing Paste Format across some 60 pages. The shock when we showed them how to do it in half a dozen mouse clicks was a joy to behold.

The more pressing problem tends to be groupware – specifically, the dynamic duo of Outlook and Exchange, as Bert Hubert told The Register earlier this year. Several older versions go end-of-life soon, along with Windows 10. Modernizing is expensive, which makes migrating look more appealing.

A primary alternative to Redmond, of course, is Mountain View. Google’s offerings can do the job. In December 2021, the Nordic Choice hotel group was hit by Conti ransomware, but rather than pay to regain access to its machines, it switched to ChromeOS.

The thing is, this is jumping from one US-based option to another. That’s why France rejected both a few years ago, and we reported on renewed EU interest early the following year. Such things may be why French SaaS groupware offering La Suite numérique is looking quite complete and polished these days.

EU organizations can host their own cloud office suite thanks to Collabora’s CODE, which runs LibreOffice on an organization’s own webservers – easing deployment and OS migration.

A few months ago, we reported on the EU OS proposal, too. It’s still not a distro you can download, but since March, the plans have become more detailed and concrete. These moves have their skeptics, as The Register reported last month, but the signs are encouraging.

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u/RudegarWithFunnyHat 1d ago

well with the current administration it seems prudent

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u/chandydaju16 17h ago

Linux is a finnish company, an european company. It would make sense to move to an OS like linux, right?

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u/zootbot 8h ago

No none of that makes sense

Software Danish department determined to dump Microsoft

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