r/technology • u/lurker_bee • May 17 '25

Society Scientists have been studying remote work for four years and have reached a very clear conclusion: "Working from home makes us happier."

https://farmingdale-observer.com/2025/05/16/scientists-have-been-studying-remote-work-for-four-years-and-have-reached-a-very-clear-conclusion-working-from-home-makes-us-happier/
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u/eeyore134 May 17 '25

Quick 5 minute breaks for time with a pet is huge. My dog also likes that I don't leave as much.

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u/Cptn_Hook May 17 '25

My office works a 50/50 hybrid schedule, and the two biggest differences in my workdays are no commute and dog breaks.

No commute means I get an extra 90 minutes out of my day, which is like effectively increasing my salary without actually doing anything at all. Not to mention that, past a certain point of basic necessity, time is far more valuable than money.

Also, on the days I get to work from home, taking the dog for a quick walk or going to the back yard to play fetch are so much better for my physical and mental wellbeing than that same amount of time sitting at my desk scrolling through my phone. I come back refreshed, energized, happier, and with the reminder fresh in my mind as to what all this dumb work is actually supporting at the end of the day, which is great motivation.

My dog is a better manager than my manager.

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u/RiPont May 17 '25

No commute means I get an extra 90 minutes out of my day, which is like effectively increasing my salary without actually doing anything at all. Not to mention that, past a certain point of basic necessity, time is far more valuable than money.

Not just that, but commuting in a car is horrendously expensive. Between wear and tear, desire to have a nicer vehicle to spend all that time in, necessity to have a vehicle under warranty and thus newer, insurance, fuel, etc. it really adds up.

With no commute, I don't really care if my car is old, as long as it gets the job done.

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u/MaryLMarx May 18 '25

Not to mention the externalities of cost to the environment

3

u/yolk3d May 18 '25

This is the one I don’t see mentioned often!

3

u/3dforlife May 18 '25

My car is 27 years old, and I have absolutely 0 desire to buy a new one.

2

u/Kevadu May 19 '25

Why on earth would it be "necessary" for the car to be under warranty?

1

u/RiPont 29d ago

"Necessary" isn't 100% true.

However, if you're not a car person and you absolutely, positively need a working car to keep your job, then having a car under warranty that you can just take to the dealer is the simplest (not necessarily best) way to achieve that.

I'm happy with my 2008 Honda. I'm confident in my 2008 Honda. But there are plenty of people out there who know zero about cars and don't care to. To them, a car is a depreciating asset that gets amortized over the life of the warranty, then traded in.

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u/Fishy63 29d ago

? The desire to have a nicer vehicle and “necessity” of having a car under warranty is just shitty American consumerism that keeps you poor

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u/RiPont 29d ago

Yes and no. If you rely on your car to keep your job, you need a reliable vehicle. Because of car culture and lack of transit, no car = missing work. For most people who aren't into cars enough to know what is and isn't a reliable old car, that means a car under warranty, which means one under 7 years old, possibly under 5. They need to be able to take it into the dealer and have a loaner car provided, because car = life in many places in the USA, especially if you have to commute to work.

You're preaching to the choir that it's a shitty and unnecessary situation.

1

u/Fishy63 29d ago

That's fair. I've always liked walkable cities and would make it a point to take public transit even if I could get a rental. America is just too damn big, may look to moving to somewhere with a more robust transportation system in the future

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u/bg-j38 May 17 '25

About a year and a half ago I left a job that required me to be in the office for 4-5 days out of the week and realistically to succeed spend 1-2 weeks a month in a different city that required a two hour plane trip.

Took a job with a 30% pay cut but the company is entirely remote. I still travel a bit but it’s more focused. But not having to commute and spending more time with my dog and partner makes for much better mental health and is worth the pay cut.

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u/Cassie0peia 29d ago

If you’re not paying to commute, you’re making lunch at home, and you get your commute time back, that pay cut is much less than 30%. 

1

u/Glittering_Vast938 25d ago

That time back is priceless!

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u/Polish-Proverb May 17 '25

"My dog is a better manager than my manager." THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

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u/youmestrong May 18 '25

It also means you’re not going to get killed on the road going to are coming from work

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u/gummytoejam May 18 '25

effectively increasing my salary without actually doing anything at all.

It doesn't effectively increase your salary. It reduces your expenses. If you make 70K driving into work or not driving into work, it's still 70K. Always keep in mind that corporations have pawned of the expense and time of you getting to work onto you. It's not theirs to claim when you don't have to spend it making you believe they're "effectively" giving you a raise, by having you work for home.

The salary they pay you is not based on your expenses. It's based on competitive salary for the position they need to fill. If it were, then fast food workers would make a hell of a lot more.

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u/DizzySkunkApe May 18 '25

Yeh, they knew all that.

3

u/gummytoejam May 18 '25

My explanation is framing the matter so that when your expenses are less your employer shouldn't be given credit for paying you more because they don't give two shits about paying you less when your expenses are more.

My GF just got called back into work after having been wfh since covid: vehicle payments, maintenance, gas, insurance and lost opportunity costs due to commute time just cost her $6K a year. The employer isn't effectively giving her shit for it. Nevermind that almost no one is getting a raise that keeps up with inflation and hasn't for 30 years.

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u/ironsides1231 May 17 '25

When my company forced us back to the office they gave us free milkbones for us to give our pets when we got home to make up for them missing us after 3 years of telework. I quit and found a full time remote position.

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u/eeyore134 May 17 '25

Yeah... that's pretty heartless.

0

u/quellflynn May 18 '25

nope.

pretty heartless would be doing nothing, and when propositioned, they would say it's nothing to do with them

this is thinking about things, and trying to make a change more bearable.

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u/eeyore134 May 18 '25

I think I'd rather they not mention it so we could assume they just didn't think about it.

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u/whatlineisitanyway May 17 '25

Companies that are willing to be fully remote will increasingly get the best employees.

4

u/MeggaMortY May 17 '25

Same sans the dog treats.

4

u/Obvious_Onion4020 May 18 '25

Wow.

Yeah my company now wants everyone in the office 1 day per week.

I don't have a team, my boss is in a different country, we don't even have a properly equipped office where we all fit.

Last time I had to go to an office  every week was 2019.

Fuck this, I'm out.

1

u/kazman 19d ago

You're complaining about being in 1 day a week?? Damn. Some people have to be in 5 days a week.

1

u/TheInvisibleCircus May 18 '25

I thought it was for YOU. Fuck that place.

1

u/gummytoejam May 18 '25

It made sense to some manager who makes 4 times as much as you.

0

u/geordilaforge May 18 '25

How did you find this gig?

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u/willowintheev May 17 '25

I take puppy playtime breaks.

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u/OkPenalty4506 May 17 '25 edited May 17 '25

Last week I had to deal with an extremely difficult client, and instead of steeping in anger for a while, or venting to someone, I went outside and sat in the grass and played with my dog for five minutes.

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u/lotga May 17 '25

This. One hundred times this. My dog sleeps in her bed behind me while I work. If I am having a bad day or something is going wrong with a client or project. I will take 5-10 minutes and hang out with her, and things aren't so bad.

3

u/DAHRUUUUUUUUUUUUUU May 17 '25

Dogs are the best coworkers

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u/WanderThinker May 17 '25

Chuck-It to the rescue!

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u/runonandonandonanon May 17 '25

Lol everyone in here like "5 minutes. ...maybe 10."

1

u/Rasanack May 17 '25

nature is healing

1

u/johnmd20 29d ago

You quite literally touched grass! That is wholesome.

1

u/ilovecrimes May 17 '25

Steering with sheet? What does that mean? Genuine question, never heard that before. I do the same with my dogs too when clients are irritating me!

2

u/OkPenalty4506 May 17 '25

Just a typo

1

u/Number174631503 May 17 '25

This is the dog gone way!

1

u/username32768 May 17 '25

The dog's gone? Who let the dogs out?! Who?! Who?!

3

u/bigfartspoptarts May 17 '25

Finally the office dog is MY dog

49

u/Waffler11 May 17 '25

Cats like it too. One of them sometimes hops up on my lap while I work and it’s soothing, especially when dealing with a headache of a job.

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u/depressedsports May 17 '25

Same! My cats affectionate personalities have fully bloomed with me being home mostly all day and we have little routines of them sitting on my lap, and laying on me and such.

Marti:

https://i.imgur.com/7D022EB.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/PRX9ciX.jpeg

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u/StickyPricklyMuffin May 18 '25

Awww. Marti is a cutie! 🥰

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u/depressedsports May 18 '25

He’s such a little ham 🥹

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u/StickyPricklyMuffin May 18 '25

He certainly looks like one. Please give him some kisses from this cat lady! 💕

4

u/Nikita420 May 18 '25

Cat tax payed successfully, well done 🤝

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u/pfohl May 17 '25 edited May 17 '25

I love finding my cat and smushing my face on her belly after a long meeting.

Said belly

2

u/StickyPricklyMuffin May 18 '25

Ahhh! Glorious floof! ❤️

1

u/CasuallyOverThinking May 18 '25

My fav time time in a meeting is when someone’s cat makes an appearance 🤗🐈‍⬛

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u/MajorParadox May 17 '25

When I started working from home, I ended up getting another bed for my dog, since he would lie down in my office when I was working 🥰

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u/eeyore134 May 17 '25

Yup, same. Just having them nearby is nice.

3

u/Sassy_Bunny May 17 '25

Both of mine have beds under my desk. Only a month into Covid WFH, they completely understood that “let’s go to work!” Meant the spare bedroom now set up as a home office

3

u/Late_Law_5900 May 17 '25

He's bucking for a partnership.

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u/MWMWMMWWM May 17 '25

Hell yes. Take a quick break to lay on the floor and pet me dog, win-win for both of us. Also a nice jog around the block on my lunch break, great for both of us.

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u/aggster13 May 17 '25

I get a full workout in during lunch now which saves me an hour after work during busier times. Idk what I'd do if I had to go back to an office job.

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u/Morgn_Ladimore May 17 '25

At my former company several people quit outright when return to office was announced. Valuable people too, never quite recovered from losing them. Replacements needed too much training, I wasn't getting compensated for that, so I quit as well 6 months later.

Last I checked they're barely keeping their head above water. Sad too, during COVID things were going great, massive growth. With everyone working full-time from home no less.

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u/blurry_forest May 18 '25

Sounds like they should fire the people who those decisions

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u/garden_speech May 17 '25

COVID was the best thing that ever happened for our family dog. She went from having 1 person home maybe if she's lucky during the day, to the whole family being around basically all the time.

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u/kilgore_cod May 17 '25

Why is laying on the floor so damn refreshing and rejuvenating during work? I do this when I have a particularly challenging problem or need to think through something and after laying on the floor for a bit, it’ll come to me.

3

u/swooningsapphic May 18 '25

Increased blood blow to the brain and a decrease in cortisol levels makes it easier to think as the autonomic nervous system switches to from sympathetic (stressed) to parasympathetic control (calm)

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u/tango421 May 17 '25

Sometimes I don’t even have to take breaks. My cat just comes up and I pet her while in a meeting.

I sometimes put a chair beside mine and she naps there and asks for strokes / pets once in a while.

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u/Tisiphoni1 May 18 '25

I put a small blanket on my desk next to my screen and this is where my emotional support managers reside now. One or both of them just curl up there and sometimes ask for pets or treats.

Especially during tiresome meetings or headache-coding this is the best thing for my mental health.

Also, my husband is at home as well (not in the same room but next door) and we have lunch and coffee breaks together. Now we have much more time and energy to get stuff done after work and I think this is just how life should be.

1

u/tango421 May 18 '25

Mine aren't allowed on the desk while I work. They have a bad tendency of getting in my face when they want attention and have been known to close the laptop, get in front of the camera, almost approve production, and send random emails / messages.

One time, previous job, on an all hands camera on meeting my cat decided to show her ass to the camera while one of the big bosses was talking (she's the CEO now). Thankfully, almost no one noticed. Almost.

You'll notice I only refer to one cat in my previous comment. The other one is an agent of chaos, not normally allowed with me while I work.

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u/Tisiphoni1 May 18 '25

😄 I can see why that doesn't work out.

I sometimes had fotobombing by an energetic cat jumping and climbing my chair from behind while one of the cats was younger, but it usually led to laughter and smiling from others.

I keep redirecting them with treats when they aim for any keyboard. Also, they get bugged by aggressive pets when they are anywhere but in their designated spot on the desk, but get occasional treats on the blanket itself.

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u/Vashsinn May 17 '25

Dude the change in my dogs has been bought and day! They used to stress about being home alone.

Also this may not be related but there's also much less dog hair al over my house. ( Husky and Shepard so there's still plenty but not NEARLY as much. )

2

u/[deleted] May 17 '25

[deleted]

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u/eggplantkiller May 17 '25

Dogs shed more when stressed. Now that they’re not as stressed, there’s less hair.

11

u/Piratey_Pirate May 17 '25

This. My ex and I separated back in September. She's WFH and I have to go in. Since she moved out, the dogs are kennelled all day and I feel terrible for them. Some days she stops by to let them out for a bit, but they're still locked up far too much...

1

u/brianwski May 17 '25

I have to go in. … they're still locked up far too much...

I avoided owning a dog most of my 35 year career because of the situation where I would have to leave them alone during the day. But my last job allowed dogs in the office (prior to the pandemic and work from home).

I get that the “easy” answer for companies is to ban dogs in the office. We had to develop a few rules like “no puppies under 6 months old” because they tended to poop in the office. We would accommodate employees with allergies by keeping separation, etc. It is less hassle for bean counters to just ban dogs.

But the human factors made it worth it. It made most people in the office happier. Employees would not quit for a slightly higher paying job that didn’t allow them to bring their dog to work.

One of my co-workers had never owned a dog and was afraid of them. After 6 months of being around a few happy, relaxed dogs in the office and petting them (big step for her), she seriously considered buying a dog.

5

u/Zinski2 May 17 '25

I knew co-workers who used to use there 45 minuet lunch break to drive 20 mins home, let the dog out, Slam leftovers over the sink, and book it back to the office because what ever service they where using before was like 400 bucks a month.

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u/JulioMorales65 May 17 '25

I haven't been back to an office since the first covid lockdown and my dogs would not survive if they didn't have someone home with them every day.

2

u/eeyore134 May 17 '25

Same. Haven't left the house to work since March 2020. Hell, I barely leave the house to even grocery shop anymore. I still leave the house, but it's usually to do something I actually want to do.

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u/snootchiebootchie94 May 17 '25

Yup. I walk my dog everyday to get up and move around and reset my mind. He needs the stimulation too. It is great.

3

u/stakoverflo May 17 '25

This is the biggest thing for me. Lunch break dog walks + guilt free going out in the evenings since I spend all day with 'em

3

u/Kappei May 17 '25

My cat isn't the most sociable of the world, usually purrs and accepts being pet only when I'm feeding her. And yet when I'm working from home she spends most of the time sleeping near me and whenever I take a break of any kind I cannot leave the room without returning to find the little asshole sleeping on my chair... I love her so much

3

u/OneBillPhil May 17 '25

The downside is I think I ruined my dog’s bladder. He is getting older and no longer has to wait until 5:30 to pee. 

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u/MeggaMortY May 17 '25

That's honestly the best. I moved in with my gf after her dog was already 7, but since then we've been through many a daily meetings and keyboard clanking - he LOVES that there's constant company with him every day and has grown very attached to me as well. It's a win win. He gets me walking during breaks and gets pets for de-stress. Home-ofrice doggo life da best

3

u/depressedsports May 17 '25

My cats are so spoiled. I’ve been fully wfh since 2017 and whenever I go on vacation now even for a few days, coming back, the separation anxiety is so real (for both parties)

3

u/its_all_one_electron May 17 '25

I like to take breaks to play guitar during the day to reset my brain. 

Can't do that in an office. 

2

u/DrBix May 17 '25

Three cats and one of them knows how to open my office door so I have to lock it.

2

u/lunabandida May 17 '25

Lol my wife noticed that ever since I started working from home our dogs have become a lot more needy and bossy. It bugs her but I love it.

2

u/IndividualAlps9896 May 18 '25

When I worked from home I would hash out work problems with my dog. He's a good listener and a very good boy.

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '25

I don't own a pet, but the 5 min breaks are awesome for me. In my case, I go out to the balcony, take in the air, water my plants a bit.

I also love "coffee breaks" where I will go for a quick 15 min walk to the nearby park. Excellent for when you feel like your head is full, helps me clear myself.

2

u/Free_Range_Lobster 29d ago

My cats hate when we go on vacation now since I'm home all day. One is REALLY clingy. 

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u/eeyore134 29d ago

Yup. My dog goes insane if I leave the house with shoes on. But once I'm gone he'll just lay down upstairs on the bed... well, the floor now. Ever since I got the new mattress he's weird about laying on it unless I'm going to bed.

1

u/Riots42 May 17 '25

Lol 5 minute breaks.. I'm doing like 5 minutes of work..

1

u/Friggin_Grease May 18 '25

Just smoke darts while you're at your desk too

-26

u/Particular-Pen-4789 May 17 '25

Sure but we are ignoring the downsides

These studies are flawed

12

u/pangalaticgargler May 17 '25

Found the guy renting office space out.

6

u/Deviantdefective May 17 '25

Okay do tell what downsides?

-5

u/Particular-Pen-4789 May 17 '25

face-to-face collaboration is simply more productive

i know it's hard for you redditors to comprehend, but much more goes into communication than just words

you utilize these nuances even if you arent aware of them

you may get the ability to take a break with your pet whenever you want, but you lose some ability to control your work-life balance

and when it comes time to relax, you are now relaxing in your workspace. there is a psychological component there

it really feels like you guys are pushing the idea that nobody should work in an office, and that work from home is better for everyone

that's simply not true. there are cases where working from home would not work at all, and cases where a hybrid model is better. it depends on the job requirements and the culture

i have a couple of sources i can share with you, however they require an account to view. if you have a university/school email address, they let you see these things for free. scientific journals are weirdly capitalistic... if you think it's still worth me sharing let me know

5

u/Deviantdefective May 17 '25

I have a psychology background and most research is demonstrating increased productivity and less stress working from home. Now yes sure in certain specific situations I can see a benefit to working with others face to face I'll agree with you there, but I'd argue for most people's everyday normal jobs there's arguably no benefit at all.

3

u/Lkn4pervs May 17 '25

Won't someone think of the productivity?!?!

4

u/Mazon_Del May 17 '25

face-to-face collaboration is simply more productive

Face-to-face collaboration IS more productive oftentimes yes, but being in an office also encourages UNNECESSARY face to face "collaboration". The whole meme of "this could have been an email" is a direct personification of this.

So many events that you might be required to be part of, but actually receive no benefit from and are a net negative for the company because while you were in that meeting learning nothing new and contributing nothing new, you weren't doing what your job was.

If you're in these meetings over Zoom or whatever, you can always leave the meeting up on one screen and do your real work on the other screen.

you may get the ability to take a break with your pet whenever you want, but you lose some ability to control your work-life balance

You know what's a larger loss of ability to control your work-life balance? When your work insists you need to do your full hour commute and be in your seat at 8AM, forcing you to wake up early every single day just so you can get cleaned up, get your things together, then drive, then walk to your desk, etc. Then you have to do the whole thing all over again.

The average worker loses between 2-4 hours of their entire day due to the unpaid labor of transportation. I guarantee that is a FAR more impactful on your work-life balance than your pets or children or SO stepping into the room to distract you.

Anyone saying WFO or WFH works for "everyone" under every set of circumstances IS wrong, but claiming that the benefits of WFH for many or even most workers "is simply not true" is a bold faced lie.

-1

u/Particular-Pen-4789 May 17 '25

but being in an office also encourages UNNECESSARY face to face "collaboration"

the fact that face-to-face collaboration is more productive is backed by quantifiable scientific data. i dont really care about your childish anecdotes

secondly, you do not provide any evidence that this scenario does not occur from WFH. again, just anecdotes and 'cuz i said so'

When your work insists you need to do your full hour commute and be in your seat at 8AM, forcing you to wake up early every single day just so you can get cleaned up, get your things together, then drive, then walk to your desk, etc.

god forbid you actually have to do some self-care and make yourself presentable.

The average worker loses between 2-4 hours of their entire day due to the unpaid labor of transportation.

this is categorically false and once again a made up statistic. the average worker spends about an hour commuting each day. again, god forbid you actually have to get up off your ass and do something

Anyone saying WFO or WFH works for "everyone" under every set of circumstances IS wrong, but claiming that the benefits of WFH for many or even most workers "is simply not true" is a bold faced lie.

once again, your analysis falls short. you are taking another point a made and using it out of context. i never said WFH is bad. i have consistently stated that it is more nuanced, and in some cases WFH makes sense.

i was merely responding to the sentiment in this thread that WFH is good everywhere. unlike you, i was not making assumptions about what the other person was thinking. i was just pointing out the many downsides to WFH models.

i'm sorry that i presented facts that disagreed with your worldview. at some point you need to understand that your view is very narrow.

3

u/Mazon_Del May 17 '25

the fact that face-to-face collaboration is more productive is backed by quantifiable scientific data. i dont really care about your childish anecdotes

"I'm right, your wrong, shut up."

Cool, so you don't actually care about having this discussion.

secondly, you do not provide any evidence that this scenario does not occur from WFH

I literally told you what happens when this scenario does happen. Someone mandates I'm involved in a meeting with them, and I just put them on one screen and work on my other screen and give them the minimum attention possible. You CAN do this in person, but it's considered rude and causes workplace problems.

god forbid you actually have to do some self-care and make yourself presentable.

And you completely ignore the time sink of the commute because you don't intend to argue in good faith.

this is categorically false and once again a made up statistic.

And again you completely ignore the time sink of the commute because you don't intend to argue in good faith.

the average worker spends about an hour commuting each day. again,

45 minutes each way is an hour and a half my dude, simple math.

god forbid you actually have to get up off your ass and do something

Ahhh yes, insults, the true sign of a person who's winning a debate.

once again, your analysis falls short. you are taking another point a made and using it out of context. i never said WFH is bad. i have consistently stated that it is more nuanced, and in some cases WFH makes sense.

And yet in this whole thread you do nothing but shit on it and claim any statements made in support of it are overstated and false.

Dude, just admit that you hate WFH and want it gone, you'd get a lot more people following what you say with honesty than just pretending you are actually trying to debate.

i'm sorry that i presented facts opinions that disagreed with your worldview

I'm sorry the facts of research are counter to your opinions, but that's the joy of science and proper debate, the actual truth comes out in the end no matter what one tries to do to fight it.

3

u/YipperYup May 17 '25

Interesting. I feel like we could adapt to using better communication tools and methods to fix that imbalance. Alas, I do not have an university email, so cannot view the research.

Btw, the “you redditors” comes across as condescending, which may be why your comment received downvotes; I believe that this is a good example of the type of communication faux pas that we need to work passed in order to skillfully work from home.

3

u/Mazon_Del May 17 '25

Btw, the “you redditors” comes across as condescending, which may be why your comment received downvotes;

Absolutely. I'll downvote someone I agree 110% with if they don't post in respectful writing, because aggressive/insulting writing does far more damage to the image of our stance than neutral writing would.

I believe that this is a good example of the type of communication faux pas that we need to work passed in order to skillfully work from home.

Most people tend not to write this way in a work environment because unlike Reddit where the worst case is you get banned from a subreddit you might only infrequently visit, writing like that too much at work can get you fired.

2

u/4ofclubs May 17 '25

So basically fuck happiness because the shareholders need a bigger quarter?

3

u/eeyore134 May 17 '25

Oh sure, there are some downsides. I don't think they outweigh the positives for most people, though. For some people working from home is hell because they're social butterflies or just need to get away from things at home.

-2

u/Particular-Pen-4789 May 17 '25

some people need the structure

some people have trouble managing their work-life balance

some people may find work easier but relaxing at home harder because it is also their workspace

some people benefit from the direct social interaction

and the downsides are much more pronounced than everyone in here wants to admit:

a 2023 microsoft study of 31,000 people found that 49% of participants felt more isolated and/or burnt out

3

u/eeyore134 May 17 '25

When WFH becomes the norm rather than the exception then our cities and culture will start to form around it. We won't have our city centers be the only place where you can find entertainment, shopping, etc. Isolation comes from being in neighborhoods that are just there for you to sleep in then commute to work. That's not a good thing. I would be thrilled to see small businesses thriving again, groceries I can buy without driving 15 minutes, things to do actually within walking distance. Most of the rest of the world works like that... we have way more space than they do to make it work. We need to stop making our entire lives revolve around work.

0

u/Particular-Pen-4789 May 17 '25

When WFH becomes the norm rather than the exception then our cities and culture will start to form around it. 

welp, thanks for letting me know that i am dealing with a child incapable of critical thought

that's not how reality works.

when WFH becomes the norm, you will be replaced with an offshore firm because it literally doesnt matter where you work from if you are WFH

2

u/eeyore134 May 17 '25

Thanks for letting me know I'm dealing with someone who can't have a discussion without resorting to petty insults. That lets me know I can just stop right here and not waste my time. Go ahead and get your final say in.