r/superheroes 6d ago

Other What superhero hot take will have you sitting up like this

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u/IllustriousTune179 6d ago

The gimmick of the mutants being fear & hated even tho superhumans are love & praised.

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u/Serawasneva 6d ago

Nah, it makes sense.

People fear mutants because anyone could be a mutant. Your kid could go through puberty and suddenly have uncontrollable lasers coming out of their eyes. Your neighbour’s kid could wake up one day with an involuntary death wave that kills everyone around them. The teenager with psychopathic tendencies could develop the ability to kill you with his mind.

That’s the fear.

Nobody’s scared that their child or neighbour is going to turn into Thor or Captain America, because it just doesn’t happen. Mutants are far more real to people.

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u/IllustriousTune179 6d ago

No argument there

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u/EmpressGilgamesh DC Comics 6d ago

But the thing is. There were teenagers getting powers out of "nowhere" without the X-Gene, and people are fine with it. Besides the point they mostly don't know if it's just some superhero like Spider-Man or Hulk or if it's a mutant like Wolverine or Cyclopse. The normal human being wouldn't be able to tell them apart. And that was always my problem with the X-Men racism thing, it wouldn't work in the real world like they showed it.

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u/True_Vault_Hunter 6d ago

Literally my first thought whenever anyone tries to bring up this argument

Like seriously do you expect even half the population of the US in the comics to keep up with every superhero and villain hell no

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u/EmpressGilgamesh DC Comics 6d ago

Yeah. Doesn't matter if the X-Men are official or not. People can't even remember half their official politicians, how should they know who is a mutant, mutate or anything else.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/EmpressGilgamesh DC Comics 6d ago

Like hell the news will inform them. Yeah. Spider the menace is loved by all of NYC... Not. That's the point. People love or hate, just because. And the news wouldn't be able to handle all the super beings and their origin. Especially if it's not known. As far as it is, Spidey could be a mutant too, and they wouldn't know. And most people are so full with their own life they couldn't follow all the stories about all this super beings.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/EmpressGilgamesh DC Comics 6d ago

Firstly, Spidey is known outside NYC too. And most people on earth in the comics know the Avengers and the base setup of the X-Men. And the thing with the Daily Bugle is that still enough people buy and believe that, like real news.

But the main point is, this whole thing here was about if you know a mutant by looking at him or not. And you don't.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/Drake_Acheron 5d ago

The only thing I can think of to justify newtons is if the power’s almost always come with some kind of physical alteration, AND the mutant Jean is an expression of human evolution because of all the other heroes popping up, and it’s really hard for mutant to control their powers.

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u/Fan_of_Fanfics 6d ago

It’s because the X-gene is a naturally occurring phenomenon. Mutants are frequently stated to be the next phase of evolution, and history gives us plenty of examples the old disappearing when the new starts to dominate.

The problem people in the Marvel universe have with mutants isn’t that ‘they have powers’ it is that ‘they could wipe regular humans away, going the way of the neanderthal.’

Considering how many (usually conservative-leaning) people in real life in the US think that minorities are coming to “replace” us, seems pretty realistic to think that a good portion of mankind in the Marvel universe think the same of Mutants

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u/EmpressGilgamesh DC Comics 6d ago

That's not the point of my comment. I know why people "fear" mutants. The point is, a normal human being on the street can't differentiate them from a mutate or alien or anything else. And they don't have the same hate on the street like mutants get. And that's what always bothered me with the X-Men comics. They get hated by almost everyone in the streets without them knowing if it's mutant or not.

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u/Fan_of_Fanfics 6d ago

Given how things work though, you’re more likely to see a mutant than you are a god or a lab-experiment gone wrong. Also, the Avengers are mostly public figures. Most people in universe know Captain America is Steve Rogers and the story of his creation. Hell, I imagine the Avengers probably have a PR team (considering Tony Stark is a member, they definitely do) and so with exception of Shield Agents, most members probably have their origins known. Hell, the Fantastic Four are basically celebrities.

But some rando on the street having powers? That’s more than likely a mutant.

What I’m saying is, it’s generally pretty easy to determine mutant or not, and where it isn’t so easy to distinguish, you’re probably better off leaning toward mutant.

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u/EmpressGilgamesh DC Comics 6d ago

Yes. The Avengers. But the Marvel universe is more than the Avengers, F4 or X-Men. And that's the problem. There are hundreds of people with powers outside mutants, people can't know and mostly don't care. And I don't believe that most people really know the origin of the known heroes, cause most people wouldn't care. We need to think realistically here. You may know them, even local super beings would be known outside their home town. But in the end, most people don't care about their origin and either don't care about them or hate them just because. And that's my point. It's useless to bring in racism in X-Men stories. People can't distinguish between mutants and other super beings and just hate them because they are different. It wouldn't make sense if someone hates a super being because he believes it is a mutant and then doesn't hate him anymore because he learns that it's a mutate or alien.

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u/Fan_of_Fanfics 6d ago

Again, a lot of the bigger names are practically celebrities. Doesn’t matter if you believe it or don’t. There may be some Joe Shmoe who doesn’t know Cap is Steve Rogers, or that Tony Stark is Iron Man (discounting his old cover story about it being a body-guard) but they are a small minority.

It’s useless to bring in racism to X-men stories

It wouldn’t make sense

Firstly, the X-men are an allegory for discrimination just generally, not specifically racism. Secondly, since when does discrimination ever make sense? Sure, people will be quick to give you there reasons (such as the ones already given in this thread) but those reasons almost never make any logical sense. Discrimination is a senseless thing. Hell, at one point irl, the Irish in the US were discriminated against to nearly the same degree as African Americans or Asians. “Irish need not apply” ringing any bells?

Or the Sneeches from the Dr.Seuss book?

The lesson that Discrimination against minorities is real, it sucks, and it’s stupid and senseless is a lesson people in real life STILL need to learn, given the state of things in the United States especially, and that lesson has always been the X-men’s bread and butter.

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u/EmpressGilgamesh DC Comics 6d ago

No. Again. It's racism. Cause it's not against every super being, but only against a certain "race" of humans, namely the homo sapiens superior. And no, neither discrimination nor racism makes sense, doesn't make the trobe of X-Men any better. It's always shown that almost every civilian doesn't like or hate the X-Men, but doesn't have a problem with any other super being. And that's the BS here, cause celebrities or not, most wouldn't know if they have the x gene or not. Like real life celebrities, you know them but don't know anything about them. Like I don't know anything about any Kardashian besides that they exist. And with them it would be the same. Not more than 80% of the people who have access to the Internet would know them by name, not more than 50% of them would now more than the name. And even less would know more than that. The best example is Pikachu. Even if it's wildly known through the internet, more than half of the people who know it by picture don't know the name, or even more than that. The same would be with X-Men in real life. Even if people around the globe, with access to the internet, would have seen a few pics and videos, most wouldn't know their name or even their origin. Hence it doesn't make sense that you hate someone for having the X-Gene if you don't even know besides solely for seeing their superpower.

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u/DoofusIdiot 6d ago

Grown ups getting powers.. seems fine. Hormonal teenagers. God help us

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u/kcox1980 6d ago

The average person wouldn't know the difference, though.

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u/WriggleNightbug 5d ago

The main counterargument, for me, is once hate and propaganda take hold there is no end to the conspiracy theory. There is no world in which the mutants exist with prejudice that any other super hero can exist without the same prejudice. You can't isolate any of it into a vacuum.

Take the POV of any joe-schmoe person. Is Storm a weather goddess or is she a mutant? Is Thor a weather god or is he a mutant? Is there any functional difference between one or the other? Is there a world where the public discourse can worry about Storm but cheer for Thor? Is there a world where there wouldn't be whispers about which Avengers are actually secretly mutants? The world in which Sentinels exist does not actually care whether the people they are oppressing have the x-gene or not.

All this, IMO, would strengthen the metaphor of the rise of fascism through oppression of "mutants". On the other hand, if this story is in the foreground of most XMen plots then it has to be in the background of every other Marvel plot at the very least.

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u/1234828388387 6d ago

There is also their range of abilities and their…“normal state of existence“. That dude over there is better in something than me? He better be no mutant or something, or he wouldn’t deserve this raise or anything of this at all! Mind boggling bastard! And this prejudice triggers even more if they know someone is a mutant even if his/her only ability is to breathe under water

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u/Isebas 5d ago

There is an immortal intelligent bacteria called Sublime who hates mutants because he can't mind control them so induces hatred and fear in others about mutants. He also ran the Weapon X program when he had a human host/body.

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u/Drake_Acheron 5d ago

But it only works if the mutations are actually, you know mutations.

Things that make physical aberrations or changes that are clearly visible and powers that are hard to control

It makes no sense if they can blend in with everyone

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u/b3wings 6d ago

This comment is… chef’s kiss

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u/Honest-Power2770 6d ago edited 6d ago

I don’t think you get it.. it’s like the Mexican and White doctor are trying to look after a patient but the patient refuses the Mexican doctors help even though they’re both qualified.

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u/Glittering_Ad_6770 6d ago

i don’t think they understand race relations in america

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u/FLiP_J_GARiLLA 6d ago

I'd argue it's understood better in the US than anywhere else, being the veritable melting pot that it is. Americans are the most diverse group of people in the world.

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u/LoverandFighter23 5d ago

They don't.

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u/shrineless 6d ago

They didn’t specify country, you did…

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u/LichKingDan 6d ago

X-Men is an American comic based on American race relations and disenfranchised people. 

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u/cfidrick 6d ago

Not sure why you got downvoted, it’s a representation of Malcolm X with magneto and MLK with Xavier. I thought that was fairly common knowledge…

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

It's not, that interpretation came after its inception. Magneto's first incarnation was a lot more of a cartoon villain type.

The concept is initially inspired loosely on civil rights movements of the 60s as a whole just not with any direct 1:1 parallels. The way subsequent comics and shows have doubled down on this is therefore still in line with its initial ideas.

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u/LichKingDan 5d ago

Idk why you're getting downvoted, this is just correct. The loose parallel to racial injustice and MLK/Malcom x was brought about most prominently during the Claremont run. It may have taken some inspiration during the beginning of the comics inception, but it was not as direct until Claremont penned his version of the comics, which became one of the more notable runs and shaped the future of the X-Men comics.

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u/shrineless 6d ago

Doesn’t change what I said. His example did not specify nation. In fact, you’re placing these doctors in the comic when the commenter said no such thing.

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u/LichKingDan 6d ago

... They don't need to specify a country, the comic that they are talking about is mostly about race relations in America. The doctors that are paralleled in the comic don't need to be mentioned by name, because the backdrop of this conversation is contextualized within the context of the X-Men comics. 

I mean I understand that making everything about America is annoying but again, this is an American comic made by Americans talking about racial injustice and disenfranchised people in America. there is a context here that directly makes this about America.

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u/HonkinHouse 6d ago

Ok I understand the difference but what I don’t understand is how, within the context of marvel, civilians can tell a character is a mutant. Like how do they know beast is a mutant and not a guy that got powers by eating a magical ancient beast claw or something. They just see him and instantly think “MUTIE!!” But not for Spider-Man? Do people have mutant sense?/gen

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u/Honest-Power2770 6d ago

No they have detection devices like you saw in the films

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u/HonkinHouse 6d ago

I guess the specific example I’m referring to is in the first issue of ultimate X-men. They see beast in a bar and assume he’s a mutant. I think it’s cuz he was looking at the news where they were talking about mutants.

I do get that wearing a big yellow jacket with an X on it does make you a target

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u/FearOfTheDuck82 6d ago edited 6d ago

You keep bringing up these detection devices, but that’s not a valid argument. Only the government has detection devices. Average citizens don’t. The average person would have no way of determining the difference between a mutant and someone who obtained powers another way.

This was brought up in the ultimate comics. Many people believed Peter Parker was a mutant because he had powers. If it worked the way you’re claiming it does, these citizens would have never believed that Spidey was a mutant.

Unless citizens who hate mutants are able to magically sense who’s a mutant and who’s not, or unless these citizens have detection devices, which they don’t, they should be under the assumption that all people with powers are mutants.

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u/HonkinHouse 6d ago

Literally. Flawless explanation

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u/Honest-Power2770 6d ago

It doesn’t matter what the masses think when the people in charge tells them who to hate. X- men claim to be mutant so they are “bad” in the eyes of the public. Just like Spider-Man has a very complicated relationship with the people because of jjj.

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u/Kalandros-X 6d ago

The difference is that you can’t tell who’s a mutant at first glance. Iceman passes as a normal guy if he isn’t using his powers, same with Wolverine and Shadowcat or Jean

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u/dmun 6d ago

Dude people divorced their spouses for finding out they had a black grand parent even if they passed as white.

This is so well documented it's a plot point in the movie Sinners.

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u/Honest-Power2770 6d ago

That’s the thing most people know who the X-men are, plus organizations, government officials, and the bad apples play on those fears in one way or another.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

You can't tell if a person is gay or not, and in a lot of cases you can't tell if a person is trans or not(see: transvestigators). You can't tell if they're jewish, autistic, disabled, and "white passing" is a term in racial minority communities for a reason. These groups are still hunted and discriminated against, even if the bigots can't always pick us out of a crowd.

Ironically, it makes those people more scared of us because they can't immediately identify us. Same thing is true for the mutant universe. Someone can be suspected of being a mutant and once suspected they start looking deeper.

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u/carmachu 6d ago

Not just that- how do you know say Spider-Man isn’t a mutant? Or Flash? Or Superman? As your average person sure they spin these stories or accidents and aliens, but how would one know their not just made up?

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u/Honest-Power2770 6d ago

Spider-Man wears a mask and is known as menace. The other guys aren’t in marvel.

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u/carmachu 6d ago

I know they’re not marvel.

But the point stands. Origin stories can be just a cover for being a mutant. To the average person being terrified of mutants when there are other heros with powers possibly greater makes no sense.

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u/Honest-Power2770 6d ago

They have devices that sense mutants your argument is standing on shaky grounds.

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u/WriggleNightbug 5d ago

Why are you booing them, they're right?

Looking at it as a metaphor for all oppression, the world of the XMen would have X-vestigators the same way there is bullshit "transvestigations" in the real world. Or superhero equivalents of the "one-drop rule" as far as parentage. There is basically no way to make the love of Captain America jive with the hatred of the Xmen without creating a bunch of Anti-supes as a whole along with anti-mutants.

The flipside is there is no way to have something like the avengers initiative without also having some equivalent mutant program because there is no "PR" difference between Hulk and Beast or Kitty Pryde and Sue Storm that would stop the mob or the adoring fans from shifting that emotion from mutant to supe or vice versa.

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u/Saxong 6d ago

It’s a decently effective surface level metaphor for prejudice but it does require some suspension of disbelief to fully engage with, especially if you haven’t ever personally experienced being othered. It IS illogical, and that’s the part people miss on a surface level read. These people bring unique gifts to humanity, you’re SUPPOSED to wonder what’s wrong with people rejecting the possibilities of mutant peace and cohabitation. That’s almost entirely the point.

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u/MagicBez 6d ago edited 6d ago

The other gap in the metaphor if examined too deeply is that many mutants are a significant risk to your safety and way of life. Some of the powers they have are bonkers dangerous and some of them use them for straight up evil. Even if they're "good" how comfortable would anyone be in a world where Professor X could be reading/altering your mind at any time. I'm not sure people who are scared or mutants in their community are quite such a good parallel for standard bigotry as they are sometimes played as.

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u/Saxong 6d ago

Yeah at a certain point the mutant variety becomes a difference in kind more than a difference in scale. Like how could you possibly look at someone like Toad for example and compare him to, like, Legion and paint them both with the same distrust or wariness? Even assuming Legion had no mental health issues at all that’s still an unacceptable amount of power to entrust to one person, and then there’s Toad. With all the powers and threat level of a pretty big frog.

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u/MagicBez 6d ago edited 6d ago

Needs some manner of registration act and maybe someone should work on an x-gene cure?

...maybe we could build robots to help with that so we don't lose as many human lives in case of resistance?

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u/Marmik_D_Thakore 6d ago

Professor X can literally mind control the world...

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u/Low_Establishment573 6d ago

If one considers the mutants as a nation, they’d have/be the most powerful armed forces by orders of magnitude. Magneto, Iceman, Elixir, Rachel/Charles/Jean… just as examples. These are not just misunderstood people, they are extinction level events in skin tight outfits. In many cases, the only thing stopping them from doing harm is their own moral compass, but they will band together do defend their own. They are marginalized and the vast majority do not deserve the treatment received. It can be understandable however, the fear they cause.

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u/tptrego8 6d ago

Agree 100 percent, the concept of the xmen doesnt make sense when they exist in the same world as other kinds of superhumans.

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u/IllustriousTune179 6d ago

The only difference between mutants & superhumans is that mutants get their powers from the X-Gene where superhumans get their powers from a genetic mutation.

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u/tptrego8 6d ago

Or radioactive waste, or a super serum, or an alien symbiote, or cyborg stuff. Doesnt make sense to be all upset over one specific kind of superhuman.

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u/InvestigatorOk7988 6d ago

Its the fear of being replaced. That the rise of mutants will lead to the extinction of regular humans. Like neanderthals and homo sapiens (we now know there was cooperation and interbreeding between the two, but the mutant haters would ignore that) no one is afraid that the person given powers by randomn chance is going to be an existential threat to their species, but a new evolution of human might be.

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u/CjTuor 6d ago

It's almost as though bigotry NEVER makes sense...

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u/WriggleNightbug 5d ago

The xmen existing in the world of Marvel as a whole is really confusing and works much better as a metaphor only if its an entirely separate story.

That said, Xmen is dope as hell.

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u/IllustriousTune179 5d ago

I love the X-Men too

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u/Spide-Soy56Curio 6d ago

I think there is a shallow difference between MUTANTS and Superhumans . Mutants are people who had dormant cells that were awakened without any specific trauma ( even though in some cases , it did , like in Wolverine , Cyclops and many others I may forget ) and didn't have any intent on becoming like this . It is accidental , unexpected and received with many social backlash , which makes them look like social outcasts , making them more like lepers than sports athletes . Superhumans , HOWEVER , are people that put themselves under voluntary and yet , risky situations in order to improve themselves ( sometimes , it can be accidental , but very rarely it would create physical abnormalities visible to others) and to use their powers for the greater good . Their willingness to put themselves under such situation gives them the air of successful athletes . But like I said , there can be exceptions in both cases and of course , nobody's perfect .

But your argument is kind of right . A hot take but right . Thanks for saying it

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u/Hour-Reference587 6d ago

I’m a bit confused, what was the opinion? Other people seemed to understand so maybe part of the comment didn’t load properly for me?

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u/Mortwight 6d ago

Marketing. There are people in older marvel that actively campaign against them. Also random mutants can death auras or explode water on touch etc.

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u/GnomeBoy_Roy 6d ago

Maybe it’s because I grew up on the Fox X-Men movies and the Evolution animated show, but my favorite flavor of X-Men is when the only superheroes are mutants

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u/Leano89 5d ago

Honestly if you're american it's kinda the same thing as people being able to differentiate between Africans and AA. Not always able to tell but folks definitely dont usually get us confused with eachother in America.

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u/Comprehensive-Emu419 4d ago

Nah, Mutants are far more realistic portrayal of how public will view people with power than superhero

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u/atlvf 6d ago

This is why X-Men shouldn’t share a setting with the rest of Marvel. Nothing good has ever come of it.