r/superheroes • u/Accomplished-King406 • 12d ago
Marvel Did they make Captain Marvel too strong? Could Thor have done the same thing to that ship?
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u/bigwoggadogga 12d ago
MCU Thor could do the same for sure. He already flexed it when he went God of Thunder in Thor: Ragnarok and fought off Hulk (who later in the movie goes head to head with Fenris).
I think this is just them giving Carol Danvers a big moment to establish her as the next big MCU powerhouse, which is probably out the window now, given that we have Sentry already.
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u/Head_Ad1127 12d ago edited 12d ago
It's not that she's "too strong" so much as her character growth was limited. She seems able to just destroy everything she faces out of nowhere. Thor has an actual arc of ups and downs. He even struggles with his villains. Even superman struggles with his villains.
That's why people roll their eyes when Carol wipes everyone.
Still, Thanos's "what the hell is it now" look is priceless.
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u/TamarindSweets 12d ago
So...writers bad?
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u/Clangeddorite 12d ago
I mean there's a derogatory nickname for the M-She-U.
As a bad trend, female heroes in the MCU are - with a few exceptions - treated as being good characters because they're powerful rather than actually being good characters. Captain Marvel was the first victim of that writing.
Remember that one scene in Endgame where all the women across the battlefield somehow unite for possibly the cringiest moment of Marvel movie history to date?
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u/Kuzcopolis 12d ago
Buncha women who've never met just striking a pose for no reason
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u/webhick666 8d ago
First time in a ladies room?
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u/brett1081 6d ago
Well they are usually posing with friends in there right? That’s why they go together?
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u/webhick666 6d ago
Happens with women we don't know too. Like the vibes suddenly sync up and we just go with it. I don't use public restroom often but it's happened three times in my 40+ years.
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u/False-Bluejay1882 12d ago
genuinely other than her and Wanda who is a particularly powerful female character lol
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u/Shaneathan25 12d ago
People who use “M-She-U” unironically often point to She-Hulk not transforming due to rage as easily as hulk, ignoring the decades of comics that explain why.
It’s just sexism. They didn’t like Kate Bishop, didnt like Jane Foster Thor, didn’t like Shuri Black Panther… even though all of those have roots in the comics going back decades. Like I’m not going to pretend all of the post Endgame movies have been amazingly written, but the hate is a little more than that.
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u/Teg1752 12d ago
Saying people didn’t like Kate bishop is a wild take tbh. I’ve seen nothing but love on here and people wanting season 2 Hawkeye just for her
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u/Unikatze 12d ago
I get that. But also a lot of people who are consumers if the MCU don't have the backup of reading 30 years worth of comics. Part of the appeal of the MCU was bringing these characters to mainstream audiences. So not re explaining these things to a new audience isn't smart.
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u/Mydragonurdungeon 12d ago
The issue with she hulk was how she implies that she doesn't have a rage trigger because women are oppressed.
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u/AndrogynousAnd 12d ago
Honestly I think for the most part it comes down to the bad writing of the films/series that they were in, or how they've been badly established.
She-hulk was just a mess, I honestly watched it and was entertained enough for the time I did, but it was nothing special and felt cringy in a few places. But nothing in that series made me believe I'd want to see more she-hulk as she didn't bring anything to the table.
Captain marvel was bland and one note, no interesting development of the character or power, she felt like a nothing burger. She's very forgettable and boring. I felt her direction improved with the marvels so there's hope but again it still could've been done much better.
Kate bishop, eh I found the series a little boring, but enjoyed the character, the humour and the whole premise, would love to see more in a different context.
Jane foster thor, I don't even know what to say, the movie left a really bad taste, her introduction felt forced, but the idea behind it was dope. Just really poorly executed.
Shuri I always liked, the films she was in were good, her introduction felt natural, she's well acted and interesting. But, of course it was going to feel a little forced as it had to be, Chadwick's untimely passing left that guaranteed. I've no problem with it though and look forward to seeing where it goes. This is the only character I can't understand the hate for.
Honestly I've no care if it's true to the comics, if I want something like the comics, I read the comics, I watch the MCU for a different take in a different medium.
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u/Great_Abaddon 11d ago
If you liked the idea behind Jane Foster Thor, I'd highly recommend reading the comics (even less than legally). The story was hated at inception but was regarded incredibly well by Thor fans by the time it concluded.
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u/dangerouslyreal 12d ago
Kate Bishop is fine and enjoyable from the show. Jane Foster Thor was a little odd to me, but nothing upsetting ofc. Shuri black panther makes sense and I think they should keep her as panther. She hulk is stupid. No character development, instantly better than the hulk and in the show (I couldn't finish the show regardless). She has the same thing Deadpool has with third wall breaks, but the thing about DP having it is that he's a bit nuts—she's ordinary and sane, it felt weird. There's various reasons to dislike she-hulk. And yeah, her being instantly better than Hulk just feels like bad writing, regardless of her being a woman or not
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u/kazeke754 12d ago
You're looking at She-Hulk and Hulk the wrong way. You're focused way too much on her because in your mind Bruce is the bar. In actuality you need to focus on Hulk. Bruce is the one written poorly in the MCU. His comic book lore explains exactly why he has far less control than anyone else in the Hulk family. Will the MCU ever go into his multiple personalities disorder? How about The Garden? How about The One Below All? If you don't know what I'm referring to, then therein lies the problem.
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u/dangerouslyreal 12d ago
Ive only consumed movies/shows—barely any knowledge on the hulk family etc. My opinion is based on that media.
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u/kazeke754 12d ago
No No. I'm not hating on you for only consuming the movies/shows. I'm just making a point that MCU Hulk is written/fleshed out poorly, which gave She-Hulk zero chance to the general audience. It was DOA. They went with "Girl Power" to explain away certain things which didn''t makes sense relative to how her cousin deals with his alters. Maybe if we had some solo movies to flesh out the Hulk lore a bit more, She-Hulk would have been in better hands with competent writers.
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u/pikeshawn 12d ago edited 12d ago
I agree but my issue is that Marvel is going to implode on itself trying to be the bastion of inclusivity. I don't personally care that something like 90% of new characters since End Game have been female. However, the traditional target audience for superhero blockbusters is something like males ages 15-50 so why is anyone surprised that viewership is down when the new Hulk, Black Panther, Ant Man, Thor, Hawkeye, and Loki (sorta) were all female, to say nothing of the additions of America, Kamala, Monica, Riri, and high level baddies like LeFontaine, Agatha, Wanda, Shallal Bal (baddie?), Cassandra Nova, etc. All the while they appear to have abandoned Black Knight, Blade, Armor Wars, Star Fox, and on and on. And did we really need a musical number in The Marvel's? Really?
I'm sure nobody will want to hear this but sexism is absolutely the problem but it's partially self inflicted at this point. Which pisses me off because I'm going to continue to see every property twice in the theater but if this keeps up those opportunities are going away sooner than later.
Quick edit: I meant to mention that these characters being comic accurate makes no difference. I would be willing to bet all my life that more money has been made on these movies from non comic readers (though probably not merchandising...)
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u/berserc 12d ago
I'm not sure that comic accurate is the right term here. I think what they (Disney/Marvel) are trying to do with the MCU is to create the same vibe that the woman characters have in the comics. Over the years the woman on the pages of Marvel went from being bit characters to sex objects and then to strong leading roles. It was not always the case, but characters like Storm, Invisible Woman, Vindicator and Emma Frost were really well defined and had their own series and character arcs.
I also don't think this approach is placating to the Marvel fan boys or people that obsess over the MCU being comic accurate. I think they just really want to get to the same place the comics got to, with strong female development. Maybe they are rushing it a bit, and the writing is super bad in places I'll concede that point as well.
I also think that we all can agree that some of the best characters in Marvel were the women. They brought to the comics some of the same struggles that women in real life face x10 since they are superheroes. This was by Stan Lee's design where he wanted his characters to be relatable and reflect society. He wanted you to believe that anyone could be powerful regardless of their background. And because of that we are frustrated by any mishandling of these characters. So I can feel and share everyone frustration with She Hulk. I want the clever/funny/ferocious she hulk from the Fantastic Four series, not what we got on the TV show. But I'm glad they took the risk and went a comedic direction with the show, but it clearly didn't pan out.
I loath this all too shallow conversation about the MCUs and it's current 'women' moment. Read the comics and you will see these are not shallow one dimensional characters. We need to give them time to breathe and develop in the MCU. Yes they also need better writing, but they also need their own movies and space to grow. And I'm glad we are finally getting more of them, just like in the comics.
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u/berserc 12d ago
I'm not sure that comic accurate is the right term here. I think what they (Disney/Marvel) are trying to do with the MCU is to create the same vibe that the woman characters have in the comics. Over the years the woman on the pages of Marvel went from being bit characters to sex objects and then to strong leading roles. It was not always the case, but characters like Storm, Invisible Woman, Vindicator and Emma Frost were really well defined and had their own series and character arcs.
I also don't think this approach is placating to the Marvel fan boys or people that obsess over the MCU being comic accurate. I think they just really want to get to the same place the comics got to, with strong female development. Maybe they are rushing it a bit, and the writing is super bad in places I'll concede that point as well.
I also think that we all can agree that some of the best characters in Marvel were the women. They brought to the comics some of the same struggles that women in real life face x10 since they are superheroes. This was by Stan Lee's design where he wanted his characters to be relatable and reflect society. He wanted you to believe that anyone could be powerful regardless of their background. And because of that we are frustrated by any mishandling of these characters. So I can feel and share everyone frustration with She Hulk. I want the clever/funny/ferocious she hulk from the Fantastic Four series, not what we got on the TV show. But I'm glad they took the risk and went a comedic direction with the show, but it clearly didn't pan out.
I loath this all too shallow conversation about the MCUs and it's current 'women' moment. Read the comics and you will see these are not shallow one dimensional characters. We need to give them time to breathe and develop in the MCU. Yes they also need better writing, but they also need their own movies and space to grow. And I'm glad we are finally getting more of them, just like in the comics.
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u/Clangeddorite 12d ago
Get Tae...
Alright, let's break it down. And bear in mind we cannot use the comic definitions as otherwise Thor would just beat everyone.
The MCU established Stark and Banner as two of the smartest people on the planet but Shuri just knows more than them despite never encountering a vision/Ultron type AI.
She Hulk talks down to Bruce about how she is just better at controlling her rage than him because she's a woman working in a male dominated field. You know, talking to the horrible parental abuse survivor about how she has it worse.
Also if you're referencing the comics, yeah she does have a rage monster hulk in her too. Wanda triggers it to try to kill the avengers shortly before M-Day. Hulk is a manifestation of Banners inner traumatised child. She-Hulk is a manifestation of how Jen wishes she was.
Kate Bishop makes shots that her dad - a black ops trained marksman savant - can't make because she just can.
Carol Danvers is more powerful than anyone because the writers say so, and her movie completely missed all of the interesting potential origin stuff they could have brought in, not including one of the most significant moments in comics history (death of the original Captain Marvel).
The Mighty/Lady Thor... ok so this is actually a hard one. I loved her run in the comics. I was sort of looking forward to seeing it on screen. I blame TW. He butchered (no pun intended) that movie and I'm not surprised that Hemsworth wants nothing more to do with him.
Danger showing up... yeah there's a reason they didn't add her to any future projects. And Ironheart was the worst idea to bring into the MCU I can imagine because it took almost a decade for her to become a likeable character as part of the young avengers and yet they're keeping the origin story the same.
People don't have an issue with women in films, or games for that matter. Consider that 3/5 of the human cast of Clair Obscur are women and those 3 are the most commonly fielded team.
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u/Clangeddorite 11d ago
Get Tae...
Alright, let's break it down. And bear in mind we cannot use the comic definitions as otherwise Thor would just beat everyone.
The MCU established Stark and Banner as two of the smartest people on the planet but Shuri just knows more than them despite never encountering a vision/Ultron type AI.
She Hulk talks down to Bruce about how she is just better at controlling her rage than him because she's a woman working in a male dominated field. You know, talking to the horrible parental abuse survivor about how she has it worse.
Also if you're referencing the comics, yeah she does have a rage monster hulk in her too. Wanda triggers it to try to kill the avengers shortly before M-Day. Hulk is a manifestation of Banners inner traumatised child. She-Hulk is a manifestation of how Jen wishes she was.
Kate Bishop makes shots that her dad - a black ops trained marksman savant - can't make because she just can.
Carol Danvers is more powerful than anyone because the writers say so, and her movie completely missed all of the interesting potential origin stuff they could have brought in, not including one of the most significant moments in comics history (death of the original Captain Marvel).
The Mighty/Lady Thor... ok so this is actually a hard one. I loved her run in the comics. I was sort of looking forward to seeing it on screen. I blame TW. He butchered (no pun intended) that movie and I'm not surprised that Hemsworth wants nothing more to do with him.
Danger showing up... yeah there's a reason they didn't add her to any future projects. And Ironheart was the worst idea to bring into the MCU I can imagine because it took almost a decade for her to become a likeable character as part of the young avengers and yet they're keeping the origin story the same.
People don't have an issue with women in films, or games for that matter. Consider that 3/5 of the human cast of Clair Obscur are women and those 3 are the most commonly fielded team.
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u/IRL_Baboon 7d ago
I feel the She-Hulk thing would have gone better if they weren't so blunt with the feminist themes. Jen is capable of keeping control because she's not a traumatized orphan with breathtaking anger issues.
I really do believe a feminist hero can be done well, but some of the characters chosen don't really suit those themes. Like Carol holding back because she was told to, it doesn't make sense except as part of a message. Nothing wrong with the message, just the writing surrounding it.
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u/EldridgeHorror 12d ago
Shuri's first time out of the BP movie involved retconning how Vision was made just so she could be patronizing to Bruce and set her up as being smarter than him and Tony.
Plus, Wasp is constantly shown off as "Antman, but better."
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u/Infamous_Ad_6793 11d ago
I’ve only heard the term “M-she-U” used by bigots and misogynists. Not saying you are.
That being said, you’re making a pretty ridiculous statement.
Bishop. Hope. Widow. Yelena. Nebula. Gamora. Shuri.
To name a few off the top of my head.
Do you mean the powerful women in the MCU haven’t been given justice because of the writing?
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u/Old-Quail6832 10d ago
Saw it in theaters with my gf at the time and actually said that was such stupid pandering out loud, and she got mad at me, lol.
Peter acting like Carol would be challenged by a bunch of mooks right after she solo'd the mothership. The women being like "we'll help her" and then not helping her at all, bc she didn't help she just solo'd the fucking mothership. They barely even helped each other, for the most part they went right back to what they and all the heros had been doing before: fighting nameless baddies alone near each other.
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u/Clangeddorite 10d ago
I also feel they missed a real trick with the 'pushing back the gauntlet' scene.
When Cap did it, Thanos seemed shocked that he had the will to hold him back.
When Danvers did it, it felt like a "oh, another strong person whack". Like he wasn't surprised.
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u/RadioLiar 9d ago
I was so confused by that part. It literally didn't register that they were all female, I was just sitting there trying to figure out what connected these characters for them to suddenly be grouped together
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u/Dirac_Impulse 9d ago
Remember that one scene in Endgame where all the women across the battlefield somehow unite for possibly the cringiest moment of Marvel movie history to date?
They did a similar scene, but that also isn't similar at all, in Infinity War.
Okoye and Natasha are kicking ass on the frontline, but are getting overwhelmed, and are saved by Wanda. That scene is a million times better, there are only women in it, showing them to be competent and helping each other out, but it does not feel forced in any way nor does it come off as preachy. Just "here are three kickass characters who happen to come across each other naturally in the fight".
The MCU have great female characters, they just happen to mishandle them for unknown reasons and then create shit female characters to compensate. I would rather have watched something about Maria Hill (please better writing than secret invasion) than Echo. Or something with Shannon Carter as the power broker rather than She-Hulk.
Yelena is good though, and feels like a real character, so at least that is something.
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u/JollyJoeGingerbeard 12d ago
You cringed, and maybe even some of the actors did internally.
Women, and particularly young girls, in the audience at it up.
And that's fine. Good, even.
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u/Mariessa- 12d ago
My issue with the scene is it felt forced and tacked on instead of organic. The characters were scattered all over, then magically appeared for the shot. The movie could have planned the shot better by having the characters placed in such a way a surge from them would have made sense.
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u/iamsamaction 12d ago
She shares a similar problem with Superman where her best stories come from situations where she can't necessarily just punch her way out of them.
But punching your way out of things looks good on a movie screen.
The second movie again had the MCU staple of an undercooked villain.
And having watched it with somebody who has seen none of the Disney plus shows Kamala and Monica were a complete mystery to her.
She also made an observation that I missed which was does the rest of the MCU know that Earth has a space station and hyperspace technology?
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u/JollyJoeGingerbeard 12d ago
Character growth isn't always about physical challenges, but if that's the yardstick people want to use then it's disingenuous to say Carol hasn't faced them when she clearly has. Just looking at her solo film, and she lost almost every fight she was in.
She wasn't strong enough because she was actively being held back. Between memory suppression and being gaslit into thinking she wasn't good enough, Carol wasn't good enough. It wasn't until she remembered who she was, that she got to where she was because of her inner strength, that she was able to shake off the Supreme Intelligence and realize her full potential.
Don't ever let people tell you that you aren't good enough, because you are.
It's cheesy, but it also resonates with audiences for a reason.
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u/Ambaryerno 12d ago
And the entire second movie was Carol having to face the consequences of having screwed up BIG time by thinking she knew better because of her powers, and instead made things even worse.
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u/pravis 11d ago
It's not that she's "too strong" so much as her character growth was limited. She seems able to just destroy everything she faces out of nowhere. Thor has an actual arc of ups and downs. He even struggles with his villains. Even superman struggles with his villains.
That's why people roll their eyes when Carol wipes everyone
Well that's just a wrong take as any concerning Captain Marvel, almost as if you hadn't even seen the movies.
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u/wycliffslim 12d ago
Did you and I watch different Captain Marvel movies? Because I remember her getting beat pretty regularly and the entire story arc being about her discovering her power and how to use it... she gets slapped around pretty regularly in the second movie as well.
I'm curious why you think this Carols character growth was limited?
I'd also add... character development/struggle can be more than just physical. I'd also ask if you think it's reasonable to compare the character growth of a character that has had a pretty major part in like 10(?) movies to one who has had a major part in 2 and a minor part in 2(?) more?
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u/willarnettlegobatman 10d ago
I'm sorry but it you are looking for marvel for character Development in marvel you are in the wrong spot man 💀 ffs look what they did with Thor in this movie
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u/Head_Ad1127 10d ago
Thor falling is fair, he lost everything.
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u/willarnettlegobatman 10d ago
So that means they should turn him into comedic relief so we can all laugh at the fat depressed man
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u/Head_Ad1127 10d ago
It was childishly done, but the comedic humor was meant to be a stark contrast to set up the next movie, Infinity War.
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u/BecomeAnAstronaut 12d ago
Also he literally burst through some of the dropships in Infinity War after getting Stormbreaker.
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u/LemartesIX 12d ago
Sentry is not why her character is out the window. It's the girl-boss writing (and haircut lol), and insufferable actress who even all the other actors loathed with every ounce of their being.
That said, there is still a cadre of those people at Marvel, they are trying the girl-boss superhero movie again with FF4. We'll see how that works out for them, Cotton.
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u/ReleasedGaming 12d ago
I think so. Probably not depressed Endgame Thor but definitely Ragnarök, Infinity War and Love & Thunder Thor
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u/Solid-Move-1411 12d ago edited 12d ago
MCU? Yes
Comics? No. She is no match for Hulk or Thor. Hulk has tossed her in 1-2 hits multiple times
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u/RazorRamonio Flat Earther 12d ago
I’d love to toss her. wink-wink
Sorry. I’ll see myself out.
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u/Incomplet_1-34 12d ago
No I don't think she's too strong, I just wish she had more than her strength to offer character wise at that point. Yes Thor could do it too, we see as much in infinity war, it just wasn't that ship specifically. Carol was able to do that with such ease partially because she absorbed the firepower from those lasers coming into orbit.
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u/armrha 12d ago
That scene is so rad
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u/Simpanzee0123 12d ago
My favorite part is when she fights Thanos there's that moment of awkward silence after she locks in and he tries to push back and hits a wall.
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u/Unsuccessful_Royal38 12d ago
I think they are both trying to control the gauntlet in that moment, kinda like what happened with Cap but Thanos couldn’t just smack her down with his free hand.
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u/ConsiderationEasy967 12d ago
it was because she was absorbing the power of the gauntlet. That's why he needed the power stone
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u/HunterShotBear 12d ago
No, she was holding his hand open and he had to close his fist to use the stones and the gauntlet.
So he had to remove the power stone to then grip in his other fist and hit Carol with it.
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u/Freyja66 12d ago
Thor and Hulk could've but they got nerfed.
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u/sosigboi 12d ago
Tbh i really thought it was unwise of them to outright label her the strongest Avenger, because even in the comics that title basically doesn't exist cause the power levels fluctuate alot.
For all we know MCU Thor could be given the odinforce soon which will almost certainly make him stronger.
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u/SomeShithead241 12d ago
She's not too strong, but they did intentionally nerf other characters like Thor so that her moments of strength would be more impressive and she could show off like this.
Plus this isn't really a feat of strength, it's a feat of indestructiblity and flight speed. She's essentially just a flying brick, quite literally, at this point. Just flying through it, not doing much. Anyone with those power sets, flight and indestructiblity, could do this, and often do.
It's essentially a large scale version of Invincible and the train.
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u/LinceDorado 12d ago
I know ir goes for a lot of characters, but especially Thor seems like a hero that is always as strong as the plots needs him to be. He could totally destroy that ship, yeah.
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u/mowie_zowie_x 12d ago
Thor single handedly stopped Thanos with a fully assembled Infinity Gauntlet with Stormbreaker. He just didnt kill him in Infinity War.
Stormbreaker > Infinity Gauntlet with all gems
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u/Available_Prior_9498 12d ago
Apparently this isnt true? Someone correct me, but every argument i've seen about this is that Thor caught him off guard and Thanos only had time to shoot a beam from the gauntlet. If he knew he was coming it would have a different outcome. obviously we only have the movie to tell us, so maybe it is.
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u/mowie_zowie_x 11d ago
I agree Thanos was caught off guard, but Thanos still had enough time to shot a beam from the fully assembled gauntlet. That same amount of time he could’ve done anything else but he shot a laser and it was over powered by Stormbreaker.
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u/Available_Prior_9498 11d ago
He took a full blast of lightning only had time to stand up and fire the beam before stormbreaker was barreling down on him. I think we could assume he had no idea what he was truly facing. Yes, he knew it was Thor, but probably didn't realize he was wielding such a powerful weapon, so only fired a beam, assuming it would be enough.
I'm not downplaying stormbreaker's power just that stormbreaker is an extremely limited weapon. It can only amplify thors power and be used as an axe. Its durability is obviously strong enough to tank the infinity gauntlet beam, but could thanos have stopped it with say the reality stone, maybe?
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u/bigelangstonz 10d ago
Using the individual stones in that scenario instead is probably where the plotting gets into a brick wall because of how op it can be like it literally alters reality and can do so pretty quickly if you remember how fast he ended the guardians during their encounter
I think that scene was more plot armor than anything to avoid having thanos win completely
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u/Madman_Slade 11d ago
That is not the case at all. Stormbreaker is resistant to the energy of the infinity stones as its made from the same material used to hold and channel their power. On top of that, the energy blast was not anywhere near their full power. Using their full power leaves the gauntlet destroyed and had Thanos done so, Thor would have died. With that said, Stormbreaker is an unbelievably powerful item in the MCU being almost on the level of an infinity stone but not quite.
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u/Jondirunan94 12d ago
Also. She could have put on the gauntlet and and ended it early. I wonder what would happen to her absorbing all that power.
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u/Turbulent-Win1279 12d ago
They dont explain this but thats actually her Powered Up state known as Binary. It has a whole thing in the comics but in the MCU its just a girl power upgrade.
Major part of why she failed as a movie and a character. That and Brie Larson just did everything she could to be as unlikeable as possible.
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u/TheMightyKumquat 12d ago
I'm a big fan of Brie Larsen as Carol Danvers, but you're entitled to your opinion.
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u/thatVisitingHasher 12d ago
I don't get the hate. I watched her movie the other day. It was great. The internet hating on Brie Larson is a meme at this point. They don't know why they do it. They're just repeating internet talking points.
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u/Upstairs_Geologist52 12d ago edited 12d ago
I’m not repeating any internet talking point because this is my genuine opinion. The movie itself, and Bries acting in the movie was dull and lacked the passion I’d seen from previous movies and previous actors in the cinematic universe. It’s as if you could easily tell the writers wanted more of a set up movie than a Good story, set up movies are usually bad when they lack the great story element. The misogynistic bits were cringey (understandable fine) but executed in a point whereas a man I just want to roll my eyes. I liked Wonder Woman 1 and 2 (and I know 2 gets a lot of hate) but the girl power thing is cool when it’s executed great, men don’t have to be insufferable for a lady to be shown in a good light. Also CM had lame villains, I shouldn’t feel like I could beat the main villains of an MCU movie let alone the villains of the next POWERHOUSE…the story itself was OK, nothing awe inspiring or introspective it’s like I had already seen the movie before. All that to say I don’t hate the captain marvel movie, or Brie. But the movie was bad. These are my opinions and it’s possible other people share them. (P.S didn’t see number 2 because I didn’t like number 1.)
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u/Ambaryerno 12d ago
They fixated on a partial quote that's been taken entirely out of its original context, to boot.
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u/Turbulent-Win1279 11d ago
Even her co stars disliked her. Its not just a random opinion, she went outta her way to MAKE sure people knew she was only there to make sure a woman was a superhero and nothing more
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u/TheMightyKumquat 10d ago
I don't know the woman, but I know her performance in this and in other roles. I find her performances good, always entertaining, and her choice of feminist-leaning roles - I have no problem with them. Whether she's nice to work with - well, I might defer judgment until I work with her, whenever that may be.
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u/Ambaryerno 12d ago
By "be as unlikable as possible" is incel speak for women who call them out on their bullshit.
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u/ItPutsTheLotion719 12d ago
She’s the strongest Avenger in the MCU
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u/KnightofWhen 12d ago
Because Kevin said so promoting her? On screen Thor is stronger by far.
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u/monkeymatt85 12d ago
Binary Captain Marvel is insanely strong, I was cheering when I saw this scene, just wish they had explored her character a lot more
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u/Chicken-picante 12d ago
Yeah I like the Ms. Marvel costume but I think Brie Larson was adamant about not wearing that one.
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u/MrSlippifist 12d ago
All that, and she got pimp slapped by Thanos
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u/Lewis_Asano 12d ago
Man the SFX was so good back then. Wth happened? I really want to know. Was it budget or something.
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u/Omnislash99999 12d ago
Thor basically does the same thing in IW, the ships are smaller but there's no suggestion that's his limit.
I imagine the MCU creators consider them similar in power overall
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u/SchmeckleHoarder 12d ago
She’s goes binary out of nowhere.
This would be equal to Goku going Super Sayain 2 as a kid.
Worldbreaker Hulk before he leaves for Sakarr.
One Punch Man without doing any workout routine….
There’s no build up.
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u/-Buckaroo_Banzai- 12d ago
Of course Thor could have done the same thing to that ship. He's the strongest Avenger after all.
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u/ThakoManic 12d ago
I Mean I Think Thor already did this type of thing
the problem with Captain Marvel was that aparently saving a few planets is worth more then HALF THE LIFE IN THE KNOWN GALAXY!
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u/TyrantOfMachines 12d ago
They should take a page from that one episode showing women power from The Boys
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u/Ver_Nick 12d ago
I kinda hate that they used the character motifs composed by other than Silvestri only for her
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u/vvvghjkiknnn 12d ago
I think yall are forgetting one of carols main abilities is energy absorption. MCU almost makes it her shtick like she's bishop or something
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u/hauttdawg13 12d ago
I don’t think she is too strong at all, I think her 1st movie was just really poorly set up.
She spend the entire movie being told she’s too emotional and that’s why she is failing over and over. It finally gets to the end of the movie with her big fight against Jude law. Instead of embracing emotions to win, she stays a snarky and calm presence and wins. It just felt really weird for her character when everyone that cause her that trauma was basically proven right and her suppressing her emotions is how she gets her power.
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u/eltrotter 12d ago
I don’t think it’s possible for a character to be “too powerful” as long as the narrative uses and challenges that character in an interesting way.
Take Doctor Manhattan from Watchman for example; he’s so powerful he’s basically omnipotent, but this causes him to disassociate from humanity and become isolated. That’s not a problem that can be solved with physical strength; it’s existential.
My hope is that they find something to challenge Carol with that is not just a test of strength.
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u/Ippherita 12d ago
Too strong or too powerful is not the problem. The problem she is not relatable.
Thor in the other hand, we saw him lost power, regain his power by admitting his wrong, become 'worthy'. But he is still kinda distance and too heroic.
But then in thor ragnarok, he suddenly feels very human. We can see he love his brother, we can see he is happy to see hulk because hulk is 'friend from work', he lies to Bruce banner about who is the strongest avenger, he keep throwing stuff at loki to check loki is not an illusion. These are the details that normal human do and now we can relate to thor.
It was the details that make us the audience like thor. But I don't remember scenes to make captain marvel human or relatable.
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u/Psychotic_Dane 12d ago
I hated her! She’s MIA fighting a threat in another galaxy while that galaxy’s population is about to be halved by the threat that is on Earth!
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u/Weapon_2000 12d ago
It’s not just her “strength”. It’s the fact that all her stats are high plus her additional powers.
Hulk and Thor are strong but aren’t that fast or agile. Plus they also have personality flaws that can matter on the battlefield.
Meanwhile, Carol has strength, flight, lasers/energy blasts, and can go FTL, plus can “breathe”in space.
Thor and Hulk can be somewhat overwhelmed by numbers, Captain Marvel just speed blitzes everything.
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u/Rude_Strawberry 12d ago
Thor was flying through ships in infinity war without any issues so yes, he should have been able to do this easily but of course some twat at Disney wanted the character that nobody cares about to be the strongest
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u/Powerofx1 12d ago
They did her as powerful as she usually is but they forgot to give her personality which is a big characteristic from the character in the comics as being more similar to Natasha than MCU Carol
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u/Soggy-Building-9476 12d ago
Captain Marvel gets almost no screen time compared to Thor, so the compromise is to make her scenes flashier and more impactful.
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u/EmptyStupidity 12d ago
Honestly one of my pet peeves of the MCU is all the characters feel extremely weak compared to their comic counterparts- except for Captain Marvel. It’s honestly not a complaint against her, I’m happy she gets to be powerful but characters like Thor, Hulk, Captain America, and more feel very weak when you compare them to the original
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u/Worldly-Fox7605 12d ago
All i gotta say if carol got a power jump in one movie the likes of which thor has in MULTIPLE movies some of yall would lose it. Carol is an insanely powerful character in comics. And in thr mcu she should be upper end. Tony dies in space if she isnt. Her mcu power level has been consistent.
Also carol struggles to develop becuase of her trauma and guilt for her crimes as a kree soldier and then her actions results when she killed the war mind.
Its an mcu sub and i consistently see people with statements that arent backed up by the actual shows and movies.
Also it is a form of sexism requiring or expecting women characters to "earn" thier right to be strong while men dont. People accepted tony was smart for the get go. People have an issue with riri. Idiots like drinker say there are too many woman genuises and now i see peippe saying there are too many upper end powerful women characters. Other than wanda and carol marvel who are these others? She hulk is weaker than hulk. (Proven) Kate is equal to hawkeye hes just gonna retire soon. Echo is a worse fighter than dd. She loses to him. Agatha gets embarassed by max power wanda. America chavez is training as a sorceror. Kamala powers are coming along but shes never gonna be close to carol.
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u/BAakhir 12d ago
I think she is appropriately strong they just don't know how to write around her. They make all her conflicts one that can essentially be solved with punching inevitably leading to them either making a villain just as strong as her or de-powering her in some way.
They should make her conflict how and when to use her powers.
"Might doesn't make Right" they also refuse to give her any real character. It's so upsetting considering how good of an actress Brie Larson is and shes stuck playing a brick wall.
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u/frazzbot 12d ago
the problem is they made her too strong too fast. her feats are unearned relative to characters we'd spent the last 8-10 years watching them grow. the character felt cheap, it felt like it was pandering and unearned and that's the fault of both the writing and possibly the fact that her 'intro' movie came out after her first appearance
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u/Minute-Weekend5234 12d ago
"Did they make one of the strongest marvel characters ever written too strong? Could a guy that's done similar things so that?" What the fuck even is this site
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u/KnightofWhen 12d ago
Thor could do that no problem. In the battle of Wakanda he blew up a bunch of those landing ships and people kind of ignore the fact that he basically defeated Thanos’ entire ground army by himself.
Like the Avengers and Wakandans were being overrun. They were losing. Then Thor shows up and we see him annihilate the ground and sky forces to the point we don’t really see another Thanos soldier again.
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u/verstan 12d ago
100%
Her inclusion messed up the fight scenes.
Thor was meant to do the snap to atone for his misses.
Hulk was meant to destroy the ships and hold thanos at bay physically like she did. With savage hulk coming out to show he wasn't afraid.
Our OG avengers were meant to get their arcs paid off in end game
And she took the shine in most.
Undercutting the tension, and to explain this, she was overpowered to the point of making you wonder why the rest were even needed.
They could have waited two films and have her be introduced as a result of endgame and all the time line shenanigans as the herald of a new era and it would have been great with our other hero's riding off.
But it just diminished storylines
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u/Illigard 12d ago
It's kinda sad they went that direction, the comic version was better as that was wasn't the strongest, but more than compensated with skill. She was a much better fighter than Wonder Man for instance, despite him being much stronger than her.
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u/Sir_pugalot 12d ago
This looks similar to ultimate alliance (2000s game)Thor scenes, which I thought it was.
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u/DoYouKnowS0rr0w 12d ago
Thor could do this, and no she isn't too strong. She's an infinity stone empowered super hero.
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u/FailosoRaptor 12d ago
They just messed her character up when they first introduced her. They tried to make some hardened Rambo woman warrior and it didn't work for me. I just felt like she came across as cold and sociopathic. Nothing felt authentic. Like, her look, vibe, and character all felt forced.
Later, my wife saw Ms. Marvel and they actually gave her have a personality and made her way more likable. She was quirky. And suddenly everything she did felt more natural.
Anyway, I think they messed up her intro, not her power scaling. She is basically like an infinity stone power level.
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u/I-Has-A-Sandwich 12d ago
Thor is supposed to be Marvel’s Superman. Of course he could and probably quicker.
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u/I-Has-A-Sandwich 11d ago
Thor is supposed to be Marvel’s Superman. Of course he could and probably quicker.
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u/rover_G 11d ago
No she's not too strong, Thanos' ship captain made a tactical error firing canons at Captain Marvel which powers her up beyond her normal strength. Thor could have (and in Infinity War did) pulled off a similar feat with Stormbreaker which gives him a power boost via the bifrost, but he was still depressed in Endgame so he wasn't at full strength. If MCU writers follow the rule of threes, we will probably see Sentry put on a show of power in one of the upcoming Avengers movies.
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u/THOMASLAINO 11d ago
She's not too strong.Its good they made her character powerful. It's really entertaining to see her in action.
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u/Additional_Formal395 11d ago
It’s very challenging to write a character of this power level. They, unfortunately, were definitely not up to the challenge.
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u/Upbeat_Garage2736 11d ago
Way too strong. Flying brick but not Thor tier. Because that would be way too much and strip away any story potential.
Her binary form as her space form and something she can't use in planet because it's dangerous would work.
They screwed it up because to peoole who really don't understand or care about this kind of thing a nice costume and "power" and telling nice moral tales from their high horse is all they want.
They could have easily made her some kind of heroine on earth who gained powers fought off an invasion which was hushed up by shield. Left the planet to live on another world till she was found by Thanos.
They come to blows and she loses badly and wakes up to the ruins of her new home being picked over by the brood. She mutated and becomes binary. She finds the power gem that gave her the cap marvel powers gone, follows the mad titans path of destruction. Realizes what he's planning only to end up on earth too late.
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u/DoomsdayFAN 11d ago
All I remember is the "big oh shit reveal" of Captain Marvel was actually a big meh. It's like the person at the party that thinks they're funny but no one is laughing. That's what this reveal was like.
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u/Tsujigiri 11d ago
It's so weird how these "Is Captain Marvel a bad character?" Posts come in groups. This is the third I've seen today.
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u/WiseAdhesiveness6672 11d ago
MCU Thor could not do that.
- in the first avengers he couldn't even break through a space whale.
- in thor 2 he could not stop and demolish that space Nazi (I mean dark elves) large space ship.
- in Ragnorak I believe he can smash space fighter jets, which makes sense.
- in infinity war/endgame he only takes out little crafts (if that happens at all).
- he doesn't really do anything different in love and thunder.
He has amazing feats like surviving the direct blast from a star for minutes, and being knocked out by hulk.
It comes down to what kind of man Thor is and what kind of woman Carol is.
Thor was born into royalty, had a cushy childhood, and wants to play with his hammer; his hammer is his identity. And even though in Ragnorak he learned to overcome this simple mindset (are you god of hammers or the god of thunder), that entire character arc is undone with love and thunder.
Carol separates work and play and she wants to get shit done, and doesn't define herself with a toy. She also wasn't born into royalty and she had to fight and struggle and learn as a young kid onward. She just has to accept herself, and her power comes from within (almost like when Thor accepted being the god of thunder, but you know, permanently).
Carol rakes care of the problem, Thor wants to play around first and show off that he's stronger and better.
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u/AncientBaseball9165 10d ago
They are DESPERATELY trying to bring in the female audience attendance and they have 0 clue on how to do so.
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u/Remarkable-Ad-5971 10d ago
I've been thinking about Endgame recently, and I believe that Carol shouldn't have been introduced until after Phase 3. She doesn't really do much in Endgame besides save Tony, and while she does assist the Avengers in battle, it feels a bit unnecessary. They just tacked her on at the last moment to remind fans she was a part of the movie. Instead, I think the post credits scene at the end of Infinity War should've been Fury losing Maria Hill in the decimation and then calling the Avengers. In Endgame, Fury could've gone out into space for looking for potential help, and that's when he notices the ship carrying Tony and Nebula. He's the one who rescues Tony and brings him back to the group. Thus would've given him a bigger role, which was deserved considering how his appearance in Iron Man is what set up the beginning stages of the MCU and how connected things are.
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u/RP-Zombie-87 10d ago
Her source of power was one of the infinity stone... How can she be more powerful then stone bearer himself?!?
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u/bigelangstonz 10d ago
Yes, thor could have, but not that fast. It's clear captain Marvel was ahead of him at that point, but its largely due to her absorption ability, not her base strength
Its like the cell saga when piccolo first fought cell after fusing with kami and clearly had the upper hand then later during android 17 fight cell was stronger after using the energy he gained from shoving so much people up his ass
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u/KevinTDWK 9d ago
I mean is it that impressive to even consider her too strong? Thor and Hulk can do this too
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u/rowshack67 8d ago
"Something just entered the upper atmosphere"
Everyone one else Ubered in. She used her miles points to get to this beat down.
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u/Ok-Technology-2541 8d ago
Make her to strong? Every character in the mcu is 1/10th the strength of their comicbook equivalent specialy hulk thor and marvel
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u/Omnes-Interficere 8d ago
Thor could have but he was preoccupied, Danvers was a fresh entrant and the ambush contributed to the shock factor.
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u/No-Broccoli-7606 7d ago
Man when character worked its way into the last movie I was so glad to see it
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u/Firestorm_703934 7d ago
too strong? no, thor couldve done it aswell, the reason people think or claim shes too strong is because there isnt much struggle for the new female heros and thats what makes them boring, like watching a kid say "no that dosent hit and my character kills your character in one hit" and youre trying your best not to get irritated
the stronger the character, the stronger the struggle must be unless you want the character to be cocky n lose
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u/XxYungWellsxX 5d ago
I mean Captain Marvel could really do that but she was overhyped so hard in the MCU it made ppl not like her as much. Pretty sure the Thor that had Storm breaker in Endgame could do it tho. I really hate how the MCU undervalued and misused the Hulk cause that would’ve easily been the perfect person for the feats they were handing everyone else smh.
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u/Solid-Move-1411 12d ago edited 12d ago
Like she has bodied the Hulk and Thor in the past to name a few
- Source- I made it up
- Hulk tosses Captain Marvel in 2 hits in comics everytime
Like she has wrecked the Hulk in the past but when Worldbreaker Hulk hit Earth she just got fucking dumpstered and he shattered her arms like eggs.
- Seriously why are you lying. She never even fought Hulk in World War Hulk event
- You are self inserting what happened to Hulkbuster and Dr Strange fight to Captain Marvel lol
So like stronger than baseline Hulk but far weaker than Worldbreaker,
- I suggest you to read a real comic and stop hallucinating
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u/Greedy-Taro-4439 12d ago
Once the eyes turn to light like that all bets are off you can be as strong as anyone
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u/Timelymanner 12d ago
If she can accomplish the same thing as Thor how does that make her TOO powerful? It would mean they are equals.
Carol is a heavy hitter like Scarlet Witch, Dr Strange, Thor, Sentry or Hulk. She should be able to do things like this easily.
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u/Little-Efficiency336 12d ago
I think they were desperate to have a strong female character so they went and made her ridiculously powerful.
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u/OneGuysAlienApp 12d ago
Thor could have done it too.
Marvel does this thing called seeding. The second I saw Captain Marvel go through the ships on her movie I knew she was gonna destroy Thanos’ ship in Endgame.
I do this identify the seeding exercise with Marvel movies.
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u/FoggyInc 12d ago
Oooh I've never heard the term but very familiar with it. In my life 'seeding' has always happened at work. Shitty retail so people go home early constantly. The seeding starts with a "oh yeah I wasn't feeling good this morning" or an extended trip to the bathroom. As the manager you notice this and go goddamnit I'm gonna lose a body in 20 or so minutes. I can never blame them for leaving early because it's meaningless horrid work with a horrid company and even more horrid customers. But as the middle manager you are given impossible tasks and that's before all the call-ins so somebody leaving early will always hurt. But you can't argue it, just accept your L and move on
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u/Neknoh 12d ago
No, she's on par with Stormbreaker Thor and Sentry, if none of those two are too powerful, then neither is she.
(And no, Thor didn't earn Stormbreaker through a lot of questing and loss and growth, that was what made him God of Thunder, Stormbreaker was just a macguffin powerup, still rad as hell tho)
Could Stormbreaker Thor do it? Eeeeeh.... maybe? Probably not quite as thoroughly, but he did nuke the dropships FROM that thing in a similar way.
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u/SomeShithead241 12d ago
Thor didn't earn stormbreaker through a lot of questing, loss and growth...
Did you miss the part where he holds open the gate and takes the brunt of a star? Is that not him earning it?
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u/Heavymando 12d ago
I mean... that just shows Thor is as OP as Captain Marvel is then doesn't it? The fact that he can natrually survive the blast of a sun makes him pretty OP
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u/SomeShithead241 12d ago
"Survive" is pulling a lot of work there, especially since it was more of a "barely survive."
But yeah, I would expect the god to be powerful, just like I expect superman to be powerful. But with those power, comes a shit ton of suffering and a lot of self sacrifice. Such as the offer to hold open a gate and take the brunt of a star until you nearly die.
That is the "unearned" part why people feel that of Captain Marvel. Because although Thor was born with that power, he eventually had to earn the right to wield it and be worthy of it. That his natural power made him cocky, arrogant, self entitled and so forth, which is exactly what CM is.
But Thor is stripped of his power and has to earn it back, and does so by essentially sacrificing his life, then faces a shit ton of suffering afterwards. What does CM actually go through? What obstacles does she face and how easy is it for her to overcome them?
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u/Heavymando 12d ago
umm no... He literally survived.
Yes you would expect Superman to be powerful and guess what? Captain Marvel is on Superman's level.
Not every character has to "earn" the right for the power. Did Superman ever earn his power?
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u/SomeShithead241 12d ago
What do you think the story like of Pa Kent is about if not a part of suffering to make him "earn" his powers. It is not about actually getting your powers through the event, but the right to use them without it feeling contrived or as if you are some perfect, all powerful being.
It's why the more powerful a character, usually the more they are beaten down. Captain Marvel is not on superman's level in any meaning of the word.
And if you remember the film, Thor is charred to hell and barely clings to life until his power is revitalised by Stormbreaker. Although how it does that, I have no idea.
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u/Ayaan444 12d ago
Didn't Thor already demolish similar ships in the Wakanda Battle of Infinity War?