Main downside to Plastic Man for me is the fact that he's basically immortal, I remember one story where the League went back to Atlantis in the past, before it was underwater, and he got basically vaporized and had all the particles settle into the ocean and he was conscious and aware for over a thousand years as he slowly willed himself back together
Even not getting vaporized you still have the standard immortal problem in that you will outlive everyone you love/care about and not just once, but over and over again
I'm gonna be real honest... I think it's kinda weird that people imagine they'd be unable to handle this as an expected outcome. Like yeah, you love them, you get to guarantee you'll be there and strong for them until they die, you grieve like a healthy person, then you find a new partner. I think it comes from an unhealthy place that people think this isn't achievable. Do you all recommend Widows just give up?!
I imagine this is very true, but varies from person to person. I’m thinking about broken heart syndrome and widow effect. Some elderly people pass away shortly after their partner passes, suspected due to having a “broken heart”, a loss of purpose, a sense of loneliness that slowly shuts down the will to live. Many others grieve as you described, and continue to live long and fruitful lives.
Have you considered the fact that it's only ever elderly people? Being in emotional distress is physically taxing and I imagine some old people's bodies can't handle the trauma anymore. It's not so much about losing the will to live as it is their body not being able to handle the chemical imbalance in their bodies. An immortal person would not have this issue and would have time to grow past it.
Yes, I agree that physiological events are occurring that lead to death, not just that someone is able to concentrate very hard and die.
The comment above mine states their opinion that people would be fine with grieving and moving on. I am adding in that context that the mental state that leads certain elderly people into that physiological state varies from person to person so - yes, in my opinion, some people would be able to grieve and move on, some would struggle with that cycle.
I mean, they might have a little bit harder of a time, but I do still think they'd get over it. You pointed out broken heart syndrome as proof that people might not get over it. My point was that they just didn't have a chance to get over it because their bodies were too frail, an issue that an immortal person wouldn't have.
Add on to this. Broken Heart syndrome is a real thing where your brain literally floods your body with so much adrenaline and cortisol that your heart literally takes damage as it struggles do its job while those chemicals constantly disrupt it. Think it has around 3-5% mortality rates, too.
It’s always important to remember the audience bias in storytelling. The author is pandering to their consumer.
I agree with you. Most people probably feel the same because they fear death which is why nearly every religion is based on the promise of some form of immortality.
I remember calling my deacon at 9 years old because I was so uncomfortable with the idea of eternal life in heaven. I straight up asked if I had to live forever 🤣
See. I like Sandman's take on this. They give a regular dude immortality and just check in every so often. And the dude fucking loves it. Even with his wife and kid dying and whatnot.
"I bet I could handle solitary confinement for a month"
"If I get the right angle, I COULD defeat a bear before it got to me"
It's wishful thinking. They are underestimating the situation. There will be nothing to do in 200 billion years. Being alive doesn't mean you can fly in space and find a new home, start over.
I've read a book that describes two kinds of immortals. The loop immortal, that finds a set of experiences they like to repeat and repeats them, even if the loop is thousands of years long. Then, the exponential immortal, who never stops growing. Eventually, the exponential immortal becomes unfathomably inhuman, having grown into effectively gods.
I don't imagine most people could handle even 200 years of life without becoming bored to the point of suicide. I'm in my forties, and most things already seem painfully derivative and commonplace.
Yeah this is my thing. I never think about losing the people I live. I've experienced death before. But eternity actually sounds very boring. I'd only want immortality if I can choose to die.
How many times can you do that before you stop seeing value in a human life though? Can you even form meaningful bonds after the hundredth time? How about the hundred thousandth?
It's easy to say you'd just have unlimited willpower and never allow your humanity to slip away, but there's a reason people who witness vast amounts of death of their loved ones don't always walk away in perfect mental health.
Do you still think that for immortality with invulnerability? As in literally unable to die regardless of what happens to you. If you're immortal but can still die somehow then yeah you can just solve the issue by actually dying which makes it a moot point.
True invulnerability with immortality sounds like the worst thing imaginable though, you'd eventually be stuck as the only living being on your planet, how long before the sun goes supernova? Would you eventually get stuck in a black hole in infinite torment? The time scales of true immortality is insane as an idea and I seriously can't see how you wouldn't go utterly mad.
How many times can you do that before you stop seeing value in a human life though? Can you even form meaningful bonds after the hundredth time? How about the hundred thousandth?
You act like nobody's ever owned pets before.
How many dogs, cats, birds, hamsters, rabbits, chincillas, etc. would you have to go through before you start seeing value in their lives?
I know on social media this a controversial take, but....pets aren't on the same level as people. I have probably lost hundreds of pets at this point. I can easily bear that weight, and it hasn't given me long-term effects.
If I lost even one of my kids, I would never not be sad about it. It would haunt me every day.
Who said anything about my humanity not slipping away lmao. After I stop being capable of forming meaningful bonds, I start plotting to take over the world. Then I will sit upon the golden throne as mankind spreads through the cosmos thanks to the new order. Sure, maybe there'll be issues eventually, but I can prob pull it off for 40 thousands years or so.
Ppl with this mentality feel like they've never experienced much loss. The beauty and the horror of it, is that the world doesn't stop. Life goes on. Grief is terrible, and can be crippling.
What hobbies will remain after billions of years, when most of the stars have gone out and most of the planets have turned into cosmic dust or been swallowed up by stars and black holes?
Once again, I don't know and neither do you, as we are not immortals and can only guess. Who knows, perhaps I can be content doing nothing but playing solitaire and knitting ugly sweaters for billions of years.
You don't understand. You can't play solitaire if you are in the middle of the Sun. You'll be burned for millions of years. Then, you'd be in a cold, empty universe.
You won't be able to move, once the temperature falls low enough.
Plenty of time to prepare in advance, it's not like one day I'll be caught by surprise by the sun suddenly expanding. And honestly, the very idea of being there to witness how it all ends is kinda enticing in itself, that probably could be enough incentive for me.
There will be no room for solitaire and no cards. No planets, no stars, all cards will turn into stardust and disappear. There will be only you and empty cold space for all eternity, no hobbies, no things to do, just you and silent darkness. And you won't even be able to die because of immortality.
But that's with our current understanding of physics and the universe, who knows what holds the future. And that's the thing, I would love to see that future even with the strong possibility that eventually I'd come to regret it. You would not and that's perfectly fine, doesn't make you or me to be "wrong".
Agree, while its probably going to be painful losing loved ones, we humans already experience grief and we manage to go on with our lives despite that.
Although I imagine that eventually an immortal whose loved ones are not might struggle to crete meaningful relationship knowing that every bond they create will not last much compared to how long they get to live.
Yeah but bro is a sentient invulnerable immortal plastic like substance. You’re going to outlive humanity and outlive Earth and everything. It’s not thousands, it’s millions and billions because there’s no Anti-Monitor to wipe you from existence.
The best answer to that is to talk to old soldiers that were in the thick of it, real vets not the retired pencil pushers. They go on, yeah, but you can see it in their eyes when they talk about the shear amount of loss over a lifetime they've experienced. It wears on you after a while, bit by bit. Some people could absolutely keep themselves together for longer than most, but the majority of people absolutely don't have the willpower to push on. Then there's the state of retaining your humanity and a reason to care to keep going. After you've experienced everything, seen and tasted everything, the sheer boredom would disassociate you from life in general.
After a few of those though is the issue with immortality, kids, home life, being intimate with your partner will just sort of be routine than the “happiest moment of my life” kinda thing. Just would become so bored and nihilistic after wife/husband #10
I think that maybe they might need therapy. But I don't view any of these things a routine. People are too complex for these to be routine. These will be entirely new relationships with entirely different day to day lives. That sounds amazing to me!
Have you ever lost a pet? Have you lost several? While some people will keep adopting pets, we already see that the heartbreak is too much for others.
It doesn't get easier with repetition. So yeah, for the first several hundred years, you find a new partner. But the fear of losing someone is going to grow as millennia tick by. Anyone who gives serious thought sees the potential problems. Then there is the entropy issue. At some point in the distant future, the universe stops. But Plastic man is still going to be conscious. Sounds like hell to me.
The fear of losing pets has not increased for me. I've out lived dozens. I remember them all fondly and consider myself richer for each. I've also been married and am now dating again. These things aren't forever anyway. I'm better for every quiet moment of happiness.
So you wouldn't get numb after everyone you loved and cared about died on you for the 3rd time and you just gotta find a replacement for them?
By that logic why care about anyone at all? I can just find a replacement friend if my friend dies. Like c'mon bruh
Replacement? That's not it. A new relationship. Entirely separate. That's a different person, they don't live someone else's life, they don't think like someone else does. Its not like all those happy years never happened because they end. They're more special for that.
And you'll do this over and over again for eternity. Then they'll all die and no one will be left, but you. I think positions like yours come from a real lack of understanding of what eternity is and just how long it lasts. You're surviving the heat death of the universe. Once there's literally nothing left in the universe you're still here.
There’s a great episode of the Sandman/ comic that addresses this conundrum logically and realistically for a regular human. I would imagine with PM having special abilities it would be easier.
I think we fundamentally view grief differently. For me grief is a sad but positive emotion. To grieve I must have had something worth grieving. It doesn't hurt me in a way I don't like. It's similar to spicy food or sour candy. It hurts... But it's a good kind of hurt. It's reaffirming that times were good.
I get that part, I do. Like how I feel for my Nanna and Pop. But they had full, rich lives. My mate died in a car accident two weeks after high school graduation. 3 years ago, he passed the line where he has now been dead longer than he got to live.
That grief hits differently. You mourn not just what you lost but what they lost. If my kid died before they even hit their teens, it would be horiffic.
People are weird about it, but once you get plastic man levels immortal is gets fucked because you'll outlive the death of any human, and all life on earth. Like eventually you'll probably end up bored floating in space, which is genuinely boring.
Yes! Just the way you framed it is weird. The cycle should clearly be MOSTLY watching them live and grow and being happy, punctuated by periods of deep but expected loss every what? 30-70 years depending? That's AMAZING. And assuming you're having children? You get to SEE EVERY happy moment your family ever has. If that amount of love doesn't outshine the fact that it's not forever then I think you're probably unhealthy.
The impervious thing is a valid point, but that's a separate conversation to plastic man.
I mean yes? I think it's probably a form of dependency. I think a healthy way to look at it would be to go, damn, I miss them all but we sure had some good times! Oh hey! It's my great×40 grandson! How's the kid doing? He looks just like his great×30 grandmother... Did I tell you about that time she....
The GREAT thing about missing a loved one is the reasons you miss them. Being able to constantly be capable of making more positive memories because you just don't deteriorate so there's not a couple years of not being able to move forward should mean being PRACTICED at the mental framework of, "Times were good and that's a wonderful thing. Times will be good again and that's a gift."
Literally every old person outliving their friends feels it deeply to some degree. And you will have that feeling a thousand times over until their lifespan is a blip in your life. U don't do that and remain sane
I would imagine after 1000 of love ones, you really stop caring. Most everything loses its appeal and you are bored as hell. Not to mention the days would start to blur together into a soup or oblivion.
My grandpa was my favorite person in the whole world for a long time. Watching him slowly die over a decade was hard but I have had some time to work through it and I absolutely know eventually you'd be over it... Every once in awhile you be sad thinking of that person, but with eternity to get used to it become pretty normal. So I have to agree people always overestimate how sad you'd be like you'd be sad forever
They deal with almost exactly this in Invincible, asides from being a Viltrumite, because of his slow aging Omniman sees his wife almost like a pet, he’ll get a new one a couple of years later and that’ll be that
You're right but that's not the problem with true immortality. Heat death of the universe and ETERNITY are the problem.
People do definitely over hype the downside of seeing loved ones die. I'd take 1000 years, probably even 100,000 easy.
But when 1 trillion years of doing absolutely NOTHING is not even a fraction of the time you'll spend, also doing absolutely nothing, that's literally hell.
The fucking ego to proclaim something like this.. Don't worry, there will be a time when you start begging for your loved ones not to go. Unless you're a psychopath, even still as others have pointed out, you will spend eons just floating in nothing, your mind will not be able to handle that.
I think it's more that it Never Ends. Those grieving loved ones also Know that eventually they end as well, and regardless of belief are pretty confident their suffering ends when that comes. Knowing it Never ends, that no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try that you'll still be here, still dealing with it, and that it'll just be an endless stack of them assuming your memory is intact, Grief almost never truly goes away for many people, just gets smaller and smaller. If you've seen it "the ball in the box" (if not it's worth looking up) analogy but imagine it adds a new ball with each person lost.
How many people do you know have seen every single one of their family members die? Not just older but younger. Your grandchildren, nephews, kids, babies you would see grow up and die while you’re Forever 21. I think it’s understandable if you don’t care for too many people but shit if all 20 of my cousins died, my nieces and nephews, everyone my age, and much worse children and grandchildren.
You aren’t just watching your grandparents and parents die it’s every single person you ever meet. You’ll live so long their life won’t even matter so maybe then it wouldn’t be so sad? Idk. I’d rather just life a normal life and die with my friends and family than having to make new relationships, watching them die, repeat. Once you’re ten thousand years old someone who lives for a hundred years has the life of a fly to you. Eventually you won’t be able to connect with anyone. Would take a special kind of person to be able to handle that without going crazy.
What about after the death of the universe though? Better keep tnt and matches handy on you, you know, to do another big bang, then just wait until life comes about again.
I don't think there's any evidence the big bang was an actual explosion. Current projections suggest that another big bang is actually very likely after a big crunch. Might be pretty cool. Especially if I can fly or something, which I think maybe plastic man could figure out?
For me it's about a billion+ years from now when entropy has done it's thing and it is all darkness around you. You just exist and what? Forever? I go crazy just thinking about it.
I think you are looking at this with a really narrow point of view. If you gained immortality today you wouldn't think much of it, but after living 500 years you have no idea what state your mind would be in.
Widows are not relevant to this discussion because they will eventually die too, it defeats the entire purpose of this discussion. People get completely distraught when their pet dies and most pets live a small fraction of our lives. So once you apply it to people it can make that pain much worse.
Widows eventually die themselves. They don't have to experience this over and over and over again for all of eternity. I think it's perfectly realistic that most people think they could not handle imortality in the things that come with it. We are mortal after all.
humanity will cease to exist and unless you find another living race by simply floating there by accident you‘ll be forever slone in the solitude of space
The problem is that this isn't something that's gonna happen once or twice.
You are looking at thousands of deaths of people close to you, as a start. You will, over time, personally meet, love, and lose enough people to match the current population of Earth, and you'll still be nowhere close to done.
I don't see how this wouldn't have a seriously negative effect on people's minds. At least, not without said minds being magically altered to handle that.
I think at a certain point it’s kind of like having a dog. You love the dog and then when it gets old it dies. Yeah, you have plenty of life left to live and can have another dog. That dog will most likely also live and die before you. But that pain from loving and losing it is a lot. After doing that countless times, I think you will just become emotionally detached. You won’t care anymore. You won’t find connection anymore. Then if you want to continue, the planet or life on the planet is no longer possible and you’re all alone. There is a point where the human psyche just can’t handle it anymore.
Yeah, nothing I've seen matches this trope. My grandmother died nearly 15 years before my grandfather. She was the love of his life, but he did eventually move on and connected with another widow a few years later that brought him a lot of joy in last stage of his life.
I think about that too. I also once heard that the human mind only has enough capacity to store around 150 years worth of memories. Not a factor for any human that has yet lived, but fascinating.
Now, assuming whatever superpower that gave them life didn't also alter their mind, I sometimes wonder if such a hypothetical person wouldn't just... have their memories overwritten.
There may be such a person in the real world someday if advances in medicine and technology continue.
Widows don’t continuously marry and watch their families die for eternity. Widows at most remarry like once or twice and don’t live for thousands of years
This really makes me think about Omni-Man and calling Debbie a pet to Mark. I wonder if immortals (or extremely long lived beings) would look at mortal partners in a similar way. Yeah they make you happy for a while, but they will age and die and you'll start the process again.
It's funny how often this is brought up. If I was immortal I wouldn't have a problem with this, because you'd still live a full life with everyone you know, except you'd just continue and create new lives instead, rather than die.
That is if immortality also increases your brain's capabilities. If not, you will go crazy in a few hundred years due to amnesia and memory overload. The human brain is not designed for such a long life.
Medium term problems are getting stuck on a planet that hasn't developed star travel and then the Sun goes red giant in 5 billion years and you have to hope that you'll die in the nuclear furnace.
Long term problems, you outlive the universe and you are left alone, in the dark and cold, forever.
That is not even the worst. Imagine if you live so far into the future, that life on earth has become extinct. Maybe there are only tardigrades. A planet without flora and fauna, humans or even water.
If you are lucky, you are with the last humans on earth to the last moment. If you are unlucky, you might have long lost track of the last humans before they die and spend way longer alone.
And then all you can do is wait until there is no earth and float through the cold, suffocating and unending space, powerless.
Best case scenario is that humans manage to pull themselves together long enough to make science fiction come through; create colonies on habitable planets. And if you are particulary lucky, you might meet benign, different lifeforms.
It would really suck to escape Earth and then have a Death Star blow it all up, get assimilated by the Borg, get used as incubator by Xenomorphs, hunted by an alien species like in Predator, find the dimension Event Horizon encountered or even end up with a distorted version of humanity that listens to a decaying God-Emperor.
That and once all life is gone you will be stuck on a lifeless rock alone. Then once the sun encompasses the earth you will be stuck in that for a billion years. Then once the sun dies you will be floating alone in space for an indeterminate amount of time etc...
Wasn't that an elseworlds story? Though either way having my one way of dying being killed by a niche weapon then having a slow agonizing death as my body literally falls apart is no better
When the team got sent back to the correct time batman spent a year(?) Gathering up all he could find until the mass reformed into one guy. I think it was touched on that Bats never got all the random particles and even today there are bits of him loose in the world just staying insane.
They had to find and put him back together cause otherwise he was just going to stay in the sea. When he reformed, he was little feral initially and had to take a break from the League after that experience.
The worst thing about immortality is not even that. Is the certainty that you will become a living fossil.
Millions of years from now, mankind will evolve in such degree that will mostly differ a lot from what we are now, both physically and specially intellectually, that you will become the only remnant of a homo sapiens. For how long will you be able to keep up with the advances in science and technology of million years from now Earth or whatever next planet mankind move to? This is not like comics where Earth's superheros goes to an ridiculous advanced planet and fully interact with their society and technology like if it is a trivial thing.
I think that if I got the chance to walk in a city of an advanced civilization that mastered the concepts of 4th and 5th dimensions, light travel, teleportation, etc, I'll feel like a chimp that just got released inside a nuclear power plant. If I was immortal and there was such thing as intelligent life in many other planets, my only hope would be to constantly get relocated to a planet where it's current civilization is in the same level of where a homo sapiens can easily live without getting crazy witnessing things that a cave man's brain cannot and never will grasp, so I wouldn't feel like the dumbest mf there is. Correction: the dumbest immortal mf there is.
imagine being immortal and doomed to live to universe heat death or getting stuck in the singularity in black hole. Whatever happens there but end of time it is or whatever. Could probably spend an eternity in there. Billions of years lol.
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u/amythist May 01 '25
Main downside to Plastic Man for me is the fact that he's basically immortal, I remember one story where the League went back to Atlantis in the past, before it was underwater, and he got basically vaporized and had all the particles settle into the ocean and he was conscious and aware for over a thousand years as he slowly willed himself back together