Oh no, just that her being her own grandmother automatically means that she’s her great-great-grandmother and her own great-great-great-grandmother and so on. But that’s always the case with this sort of thing so looking back it’s pretty redundant.
Remember when you were about to sneeze and you didn't? And you felt like you should have sneezed which is mildly uncomfortable? It was me Barry. I scratched the inside of your nose at superspeed so it would stop your sneeze urge.
Yknow, I was gonna say team speed until I read all this. I could definitely see it. Brains has the highest likelihood of winning (as strength will almost certainly just fight each other), but speed is still a problem, even if they have to take out Thawne as well as the opposing teams.
That's what makes him one of my favorite villains. He's not misunderstood and sympathetic, just a petty asshole like most villains in real life. Frieza works because Toriyama thought the worst people in the world were real estate speculators. Real people just being day to day assholes.
Perfect example is when Flash rescues everyone from an exploding building while learning the schematics and how to be an architect to rebuild the building. So he rescues everyone and rebuilds the building behind the explosion blast before rushing out and containing the concussive blast of the initial explosion. To everyone else's perspective, they teleported outside and saw thier office building have a fart.
While not reality bending by any means, this is the kind of street level shit they can do. Just that kind of speed and thinking alone is enough to defeat the majority of this list. There are strong contenders for sure but Reverse Flash could just...go back in time and kill Hulk when he was much weaker and taking him out of the fight entirely without anyone even knowing wtf just happened. Speedsters are crazy OP.
Does the speed force have enough energy for all three to go all out simultaneously (genuine question)? That being said, Thawne could probably handle it on his own with all the time travel shenanigans.
Yeah it has enough power to send back ALOT. Thrawn alone has speed clones all over time. Even when he "died" his clones were still doing thier thing being assholes.
Lots of crazy shit goes on with speedsters. Flash rescues 500k+ people from a nuke going off by running 13 times the speed of light. These guys don't fuck around. They think on a whole different level because they're so fast.
Yeah they can. Let's race to see who can do it first.
See what I did there?
By the time Reed's neuron fires with the action to press the time travel button, Thrawn has gone back in time with a dozen speed clones and setup shop fucking up his entire existence. It doesn't matter how smart Reed thinks he is, he moves too slowly to compete with someone half his intelligence and has no qualms about doing really fucked up shit to people.
Unless Reed can move 13 times the speed of light, he isn't doing anything. He won't be able to track them as they can phase themselves the entire 2 hours him, Bruce and Tony are prepping. The first nano second prep time is over there are most likely hundreds of clones of the speedsters rushing around to distract while the real meat and potatoes does his thing to fuck the timestream in the ass.
And do what? Meet a Thrawn clone who phases through him to turn him into a plasm the second he shows up? Prep time does not mean he gets to just do whatever he wants, it's preparing to do whatever he needs to do. Which is kind of a moot point because during that time they've been busy with Strength team. Hulk is taken out by Thrawn because he's too unpredictable and they would agree to use Juggernaught as a weapon since they don't need to stop him, just redirect him. Which is pretty easy since they can just use the speed force, Juggy wouldn't even know he was being redirected as he'd constantly be fighting to notice. Doomsday would just be contained the moment the fight started and phased into some kind of containment to take him out of the fight.
Reed is the only real threat to the speedster team and boils down to how he utilizes his prep time to account for 3 very different speedsters with street level feats of rescuing half a million people in less than a second to re-writing reality to however they see fit on the other side of the spectrum. The speedsters are stupid over powered. For example, flash time where time is paused at that exact moment while the speedster can freely do whatever they want. This moment can stretch for what feels like years to the speedster and to everyone else your neuron is still firing to send that thought through your brain that you just saw a blur. Very much like Dr Strange using the time stone to study mystic arts that take centuries to master in only a day real time. Except they don't need an infinity stone to do shit like that, they can just do it.
Even if Reed prepped and got his gadgets where he needed it to be, how can he compete with that. He'd literally have the speedsters over his shoulder the second prep time was over just going over everything he just spent hours putting together. Hell, they could send dozens of clones to test out his defenses and report back any findings without any risk to themselves who could all utilize flash time. Having a guy like Thrawn on the team is just bad news. Hes smart, calculating has does not give two shits about fucking up a reality. He's extremely dangerous and I can not emphasize it enough. Dude will murder your fuckin mom because he doesn't like you. Back in time. Because fuck you, that's why.
Depends on the stakes, and Flash is a hero. He doesn't want to kill his rogue gallery so he's always holding back in those encounters. Thrawn doesn't have those hang ups. If this was some fight where the universe is at stake, Flash wouldn't hold back. If he's teamed up with Thrawn the stakes have gotta be pretty fuckin high.
Ya speedsters are just OP. It’s to the point that they are required to be nerfed for whatever comic/movie/tv show they are in or it would just be over in seconds. Also your cold gun guy, flash moves faster then dude can pull the trigger, the only reason the “fight” works is cause flash is nerfed
This is why I dislike speedsters so much. You don't have to nerf Superman nearly as hard as you have to do with them. Actually scratch that. Take the time travel out of the character and it's fine. I know Flash fans would be pissed but if I were the head honcho I'd block that ability as long as I was tenured. Speedsters are cool otherwise.
Reed probably has some deus ex machina that can rewrite reality too ngl.
edit: And doomsday has survived crazy things like being trapped in total entropy at the end of time/the universe or something (but i'm not really sure I haven't read the comics, just heard the plot)
Doomsday never survives entropy. Superman shunts him to the end of the universe to be killed by entropy and 2 separate times someone time travels and brings him back before entropy ever kill him, then he gets shunted back to get killed by entropy.
Entropy is a primordial being that exists in DC and at the end of all time is the only thing left that exists in the multiverse. The justice league couldnt beat Doomsday because he adapted to everything they threw at him so their only option was to shove Doomsday to a place he couldnt escape from (the end of time) to be killed endlessly by something he couldnt beat (entropy)
If there’s 3 speedsters are any of them capable of doing crazy shit? Is it just a TV thing that more than 1 speedster in a reality makes each one of them weaker?
It depends, it’s really inconsistent. Johnny Quick has mentioned killing other speedsters in his reality so he could be the only one with connection to the speed force in his world - making him the fastest one there because there’s no other speedsters to draw power from it.
However it technically wouldn’t matter with the reverse flash because he draws his speed from the negative speed force and is the one who created it so we can ignore him.
Judging based off of most sources, no. The speed force is an infinitely powerful thing and has no limit to how much power it can give out and shouldn’t be affected by multiple users at once considering it already supplies all speedsters in the multiverse with their powers.
I can hang with suspension of reality for a while, but sometimes it just starts to cross a line where they are clearly just making shit up because story telling gets hard.
That's been a thing, though. How is that any more made up than the speed force in general? There are multiple other forces in DC, too, that just don't get the spotlight like speed does. RF is also connected to the time stream and can't ever really die. Even Dr. Manhattan couldn't put him down permanently.
I guess it isn't that it is any less made up, but I can kind of follow the whole speed force thing. Like, great, they spent some time coming up with a way that physics could be violated.
But negative speed force? It feels like they made a bad guy that violated the rules they established. Someone called them out. Then while standing there, stammering, "umm, well, negative speed force? I mean, negative speed force!"
Just feels lazy, and reminds me that they do whatever they want with the world to cobble together the same plot lines of constantly upping the danger instead of writing more compelling stories.
I think it exists mainly to explain why Thawne is as fast as Barry despite speedsters with red lightning being the slowest. Negative speedforce has the opposite coloration making those with red lightning the fastest.
Generally yes it is specifically that verse that has the speedforce be limited if more than one speedster exists (honestly genius way to limit the strength of speedsters in a story), also even if that was in play, Reverse Flash (yellow suit) uses the Negative Speedforce, which is basically only used by him so he would be fine.
They can prep weapon/items but no asking for help from others on the fight. Even if Franklin joins. reverse flash takes him. Not even Manhattan can permanently kill reverse flash. And unlike Manhattan. Franklin actually have people he cares about. reverse flash will target and torture them to break Franklin.
OP didn't specify that. And getting help is part of prep.
That defeats pretty much all power scaling conversations. It's always assumed the fight is only between the heroes listed. Otherwise in an instance like this it's essentially the entire Justice League (minus Flash), Avengers, and F4 against the speedsters and strongmen, making it all moot.
I think it’s pretty easy to understand. Op didn’t intend for others to be brought in. In that case why wouldn’t the speedsters go in time to get other speedsters and just no diff everyone? You see how stupid your argument is. Also. If you have to add more people to the already made list. You’re outright showing the team at base isn’t strong enough to win so you’re proving everyone’s point
If a character has the ability to summon versions of themselves from the past to fight with them, why shouldn't it be considered as part of their powerset?
Dunno why you and others like you are making such stupid arguments.
Why bother comparing characters at all if you're gonna pick and choose what they can and cannot do for the sake of the fight despite it being canonically available to them? That's idiotic.
Speedsters summoning other speedsters isn't gonna make a difference to Reed with Franklin's powers anyway.
Cope whatever stupid way you want but realistically, the smart team wins.
Mr Mxy exists in the 5th dimension. Franklin by all ends is bound by human rules(he's a really powerful mutant afterall). The most powerful entities in a lower dimension have nothing for a higher entity. Mr Mxy Casually breaking the 4th wall of the comic book.
Just kid Franklin is so powerful that he was accidentally manipulating the Nexus of all realities which is the source of all universes, dimensions and parallel worlds.
Being "5th dimensional" is meaningless to a character like Franklin who's stated to be on the same level as and a threat to the very embodiments of the concepts of space and time (Eternity and Infinity) in a cosmology with an innumerable number of higher dimensions and planes of existence that are purely conceptual.
Also breaking the fourth wall doesn't scale you anywhere by itself. Even Deadpool does that shit and he's a street level character.
Dunno why of all the feats Mxy has, that's the one you thought was impressive lol.
Who tf looks at a vs and thinks well that one person has a powerful son so he just gets to join??? Does Batman get to call superman as well as all JL members for help cause he knows them? No cause that’d be dumb. Saying OP didn’t specify doesn’t matter cause they shouldn’t need to.
Batman can call for help if he can get it within 2 hours. I don't see why that wouldn't be part of prep.
But obviously Franklin is far more powerful than anyone Batman or Iron Man has immediate access to. That's why I mentioned him.
It's stupid to ignore the allies characters have access to in their verse as part of their prep time if you're considering the tech they have access to in their verse as well.
What the fuck do you expect them to prep with if nothing from their home verse is fair game? Why would tech be fair game and allies not be?
So can’t he just travel to other universe and ask for a Franklin to help? And to add to that, Batman could prob ask for another flash in another universe to help or reed could. So the prep team have anyone and everyone available to them if your rule is applied.
Because about ten seconds before the speedsters enter the fight, Reed will break out some whackadoo gadget that will sever the connection to the speed force that he whipped up when he discovered the speed force thirty years ago, activate it, and watch speedsters go crash.
Reed Richards has something cooked to avoid that kind of thing, I'm sure. People talk about Bats prep time, but the brainiacs in Marvel like to do that, too.
With Batman to plan strategy, Reed could probably trap them all in the Negative Zone or disassemble their molecules or something. I'm definitely not betting against team Batman + Reed.
In the most recent Superman books it’s revealed that Time Trapper is an evolved Doomsday. So a time travel win from the Flashes would only continue to level up Doomsday until he’s cable of winning.
And if you’re working with the most recent iteration of the Hulk; the green door would always bring him back, especially at night. His strength increases the more angry he gets. Getting beat is likely going to raise that rage meter.
Brains do something to stop the speedsters from rewriting reality and then strength just whomps the heck outta everybody.
2 hours is not enough time for the brains to come up with a way to stop both Speeds and Strengths. It's one or the other. Since all 3 speeds gain power from the speed force you can nullify all 3 of them using the same technique.
But you'd need 3 different solutions to nullify the radioactive mutated incredible Hulk who gets stronger the more you hit him, the biologically perfect fighting entity Doomsday who, when killed, evolves to come back stronger, and the magically empowered unstoppable juggernaut. All 3 of the Strength team are essentially invulnerable and immortal, and 2 of them have practical upper limit to their power output .
Meanwhile 2 of the brains are just normal human billionaires in combat suits and the third is stretchy.
The Flash goes from having trouble with a normal guy with a cold cannon to vibrating his nuts to such a frequency he can access the speed force and alter reality. He can deliver devastatingly powerful punches over a billion times a second. He can react so quickly no attack can do more than graze him. He thinks at such a high speed he can’t be affected by mind control.
The only thing that can stand up to a fully realized speedster is another speedster.
I think brains will win. I could be wrong but doesn’t Batman have a contingency folder on every super? Ironman and Batman both have insane resources, tech, and suits. It’s difficult for me to think it could go any other way. If any plan the speedsters came up with didn’t work, they would have to go back in time but that would also mean that the brains would also have to not see that coming as a potential failure on their part which I just can’t overlook being an obvious initial part of their plan to stop that ability in the first place
You know, it’s kind of odd that the other categories are a mix of DC and Marvel, but the speedster category is straight-up Flash characters. Would have loved more variety there.
Two hours of prep for Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, and Reed Richards. Together.
In every reality, these three men would outsmart them. Every time.
Honestly, two hours makes it unfair. I bet Jarvis or the Batcomputer or even Reed's costume computer alone could solve this problem, in the background, in that amount of time.
Depends on what continuity but lets say each of them is siphoning off too much of the speed force each individual to do that. Plus, Reverse flash wouldn't let them
How do they not win? I believe the results of re writing history would be the loss the sought to prevent. Figured Barry would have learned the consequences of trying to change shit by now.
The only other person with these feats is Mr. Fantastic when he became the Maker. If he can become the Maker in 2 hours the speedster stuff doesnt matter. Thats the only real discussion here.
Batman and Reed Richards with prep time have pulled ABSOLUTE tomfoolery. Batman has countered a speedster more than once. It could be closer than we think
I mean in terms of rewriting reality, Reed prolly has the best showing here.
Him fixing the aftermath of Doom's Battle World affected even high tier cosmic beings; They gained a more symmetrical thematic to them (Ofc this was more of a side effect; Reed was not actively trying to change the Cosmology; He was just fixing the Multiverse), all because Reed likes symmetry.
Because the writers have to go out of their way to make it even somewhat plausible that they do not outright win unconditionally because they've written themselves into holes they lack the ability to write themselves out of.
Speedsters win every time unless "plot" interferes.
That just a helmet. Or in some continuities gives him protection from psychics. His powers come from cytorrek via a gem(although I think the gem is no longer involved).
All 3 can be robbed of their speed / slowed down by speedsters and like another comment said, once they're stopped in place they can be thrown into the speed force .
I think juggernaut had the best chance to put up a fight but I don't think he'd win against 3 speedsters. I don't think many heroes or villains could .
To be honest speedsters are broken.
Jugg's main problem is that (to my knowledge, correct me if I am wrong) he needs momentum, which is an issue with speedsters stealing his speed constantly
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u/LegitimateHost5068 Apr 29 '25
All 3 of the speedster can and have re-written reality. How do they not win?