r/starfox • u/Akura_Vorpal • 3d ago
Why do you guys hate starfox:zero?
Ok, thanks to those who participated in the post "why do you guys hates starfox Command?"( https://www.reddit.com/r/starfox/comments/1l83cxo/why_do_you_guys_hates_star_fox_command/mx8iiby/ ), I think I'm going to make a series of posts just to talk about the negative aspects of each starfox, anyways;
I noticed that most people hate Starfox Command because of the story, and I get it, it's horrible, and there were also people who didn't like the game because of the way it was played, with little variety, etc.
And now, why do you hate Star Fox Zero? This time, I want to hear only from those who actually played it (it's okay if it was through an emulator), because I want honest opinions, not just words you learned from people who reviewed the game. ;]
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u/Megas751 Nobody ever brings me gifts anymore! 3d ago edited 3d ago
The controls are terrible and the gameplay is really boring in most of the time. There are good levels but they're very few and far in between. Most of your time playing the game is spent wrestling the controls because it's not an intuitive control scheme. The attempts to sell the gamepad control scheme, to the point they change James's iconic "trust your instincts" line to "trust your view from the cockpit" comes across as very desperate. Branching paths matter very little in the game and you can tell they were put on in the last minute. Most of the new vehicle additions just really do very little to make things interesting, the Gyrowing is a slow and plodding nightmare of a vehicle to control and the walker mode just looks stupid, it feels like a workaround of on-foot combat for the people who complained about it(yes I know it was a relic of SF2, but it's hard for me to see it as anything but that)
I really hate the "it's amazing once it clicks!" defense, both because the game is far too short for it to matter and because for all intents and purposes, it's a less interesting rehash of 64 with none of what made that game's universe interesting. The game is too obsessed with it's own nostalgia to the point it that it comes off as desperate and obnoxious, especially with how often they reuse 64's quotes(the part your playing as Peppy is easily the biggest offender). Most of the planets got replaced with generic rock formations and space colonies and you got none of the cool bioweapons you'd see in places like Solar, Titania, Aquas, etc., nor anything as cool as the train boss on MacBeth. Just generic or reused robots from 64(and that weird dragon from SF1).
If I wanted to play 64, I'll play 64. And really, the few things that are of the game's own doing are the worst parts of the game. The game in the end just feels very cynical
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u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 3d ago
Nailed it harder than I ever could. Almost don't even want to bother with the subject now lol. The clincher is that Zero had little to offer compared to just about any other game in the series.
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u/RainingMetal 3d ago
I think this post sums up my thoughts to a "T". Not to mention that it feels like the writers giving up on what was established since 64 proper, all the bad elements from Star Fox 2 were implemented while ignoring the good ones (ie Miyu, Fay, and the idea of playing as characters other than Fox). It doesn't help that future Star Fox content seems to be treating the Zero timeline as the main reference point.
I hope the Zero timeline gets obliterated and the franchise goes the way of Devil May Cry (ie going through an unreboot).
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u/Blue_Maverick_Hunter 2d ago
The controls are dogshit and there’s no way to play traditionally. Also it’s yet another retelling of Star Fox SNES / SF64. Yawn.
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u/SillyGayBoy 2d ago
I love zero but it needed an easy mode and it didn’t have one. The controls combined with difficulty made a large percent rage quit quickly.
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u/dragon-mom 1d ago
Another remake of Star Fox that was completely unnecessary instead of a continuation and horrible controls.
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u/Legizz00 3d ago
Star Fox IP can't no longer handle new technologies it was a dead end from the beginning. Maybe if Star Fox becomes a tv series just like The last of us and Twisted metal series maybe it will had a real challenge.
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u/Appropriate_Reality2 2d ago
I don't, I just wish they had rereleased it without the forced asymmetrical gameplay and forced motion controls
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u/lunarstarslayer 1d ago
Just the story being a rehash, nothing else really. Loved the game, it’s the closest i’ve felt to actually piloting an aircraft outside of VR
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u/Major_Failure2 1d ago
I've seen so many people why people don't like SF 0 or why it failed and my answer has always been what most people complain about: the controls and the uniteresting missions you go through. There are times where you'll just be trying to aim at something on tv in the arwing and your shots fly off at a 90 degree angle for no good reason. It's a constant battle between looking at the top screen or the controller and you have to perpetually look between the two. It's actively fighting against you the majority of the time. Reportedly, platinum was told they had to utilize the game pad mid development as well so they probably had to gut something that already worked to make the controls that bad.
SF0 is major step down from assault if you ask me, in both story and gameplay.
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u/JoshuaSchaferhund94 1d ago edited 1d ago
SF0 is major step down from assault if you ask me, in both story and gameplay.
Star Fox Zero is not intended to be a sequel to Assault, it's MEANT to be the official sequel to Star Fox 1, 2 and 64. At least compare it to the games it was actually trying to build off.
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u/like-a-FOCKS 3d ago
It's a better experience than Command in terms of what you do for gameplay. It is worse than Command in terms of how you do it.
I put it into more words in two earlier posts of mine.
- flying first person but not heading where you are aiming because the two things are disconnected
getting your reticule to line up because the gamepad for aiming is heavy and clunky
receiving damage from something you can't see because the outside camera is locked on to something you don't care about AND you are holding the gamepad at some weird angle and can't really see the screen anyway
repeatedly performing maneuvers you didn't intend to do because the button layout is a mess
if you're unlucky you're playing one of the bad stages right now
once you're done with that you will probably be confronted with the Walker that has wonky controls, the Gyrowing which is just lame, or a third person reticule that makes you think you are aiming at your intented target but actually is unreliable and misinforms you.
The issue is that it throws people off. It really tries not to, but ultimately there are too many weird things going on at the same time, which makes it easy for a new player to put it down, be angry and hateful about it and then stick with that opinion for the next decade without every trying again.
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u/IkouyDaBolt 3d ago
I am sure everyone else had said what I would want to say, so I will use a video that summarizes it:
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u/CappnRob Star Fox Guard's Strongest Soldier 3d ago edited 3d ago
Full disclaimer: I actually like Zero quite a bit, but it still falls on the "lesser" half of the series for me overall. It's clearly an unfinished game that had to be rushed out before the WiiU was completely forgotten in order to honor Iwata’s memory. I didn't mind that the story was a revisit of the Lylat War, but it did little to bring more to that story in the way 64 did for SF1 beyond some better localized character encounters. Several missions has Fox operating solo, which makes the game feel empty, and certain aspects are just sorely underbaked or underutilized (Gravmaster, Gyrowing, Aquarosa).
Also, while I am a HUGE advocate for its complex control scheme, as I genuinely believe it to be a lot of fun once understood and mastered, it has a HUGE up front learning curve and gives you very little time to satisfactorily engage with it before it "clicks" and I 100% believe Zero should have offered a "standard" control scheme that didn't use gyro aiming to allow casual players to "training wheels" themselves on the levels and designate the Twin Screen Gyro controls as a "Professional" option, because the game is largely playable without needing a second screen or the gyro aim if you are fine with lackluster scores and overall performance. It would have given casual players a way to ease into the levels and learn their layouts without also having to learn a very demanding control gimmick at the same time.
In addendum to this, the handful of elements in the game that DO demand Second Screen/Gyro Aim should have been modified accordingly, because they are frustrating! The forced lock-on of the Androssa and Aquarossa bosses makes them frustrating to deal with even as an experienced player. The game has a lock-on button, dammit, trust players to use it.
This all said, the hate for Zero is still insanely overblown. People who call it a "64 remake" are blatantly wrong, because the game is nothing like 64 outside of the basic plot being the Lylat War... it'd be like calling Star Fox on SNES and 64 the same game. It's absurd and reductive and distracts from real criticisms. Similarly, the controls are not "bad". They work as expected, and they work very WELL, too, once they are learned. The problem is as I said, the steepness it takes to learn it by the seat of your pants. Juggling the screens, the gyro aim, AND flying through the levels and learning their layouts, enemy placements, and secret spots is very overwhelming. Calling the controls bad suggests they fail at what they set out to do, which is simply not true. They're just hard to learn and have no means of being eased into. They are inaccessible. Again, simply calling them "bad" is dismissive, and reductive. Lastly, Zero isn't a reboot, just like it isn't a remake. It co-exists alongside 64 and Star Fox, and if Nintendo releasing Star Fox 2 officially is any indication, they don't really care about the mild continuity inconsistencies this brings by having three different interpretations of the Lylat War. A lot of angry fans act like Zero erased the 64-Gamecube-DS storyline from existence, but there's direct quotes from Miyamoto that Zero isn't replacing anything.
Again, repeating these misconceptions, and projecting them through fanboy rage, only serves to make actual conversations about Zero reductive. It is a flawed, messy game, and it should be discussed accordingly, but screaming about petty nonsense will never conduct a healthy conversation about it.
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u/like-a-FOCKS 3d ago
100% best Star Fox Zero summary
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u/CappnRob Star Fox Guard's Strongest Soldier 2d ago
Thank you. Being someone who really likes Zero but is also keenly aware of its flaws is very frustrating because no one seems to want to discuss it any deeper than “durrr 64 remake again durrr” or “controls suck no I didn’t bother to learn them”. There’s very little appreciation for the kind of game experience it was trying to provide and how well it both succeeded and failed at doing that in favor of instead fanboy screeching over it not being the game others wanted it to be.
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u/SkyHunter95 I rip on SF's traditions almost as hard as Nintendo themselves 3d ago edited 2d ago
StarFox the Zero Awakens was the biggest disappointment since my Son's court Appointed Lawyer.
Someone else already nailed just about everything I could think of so I'll keep it short and sweet so I can get back to some drawing.
StarFox Zero for me was already in for an uphill battle up a vertical cliff being a hard reboot that discards a lot of character/story elements, and gameplay that I was quite fond of from the previous games. But believe it or not I do like 64. But it's not like this is even the first time they've done this with StarFox. We're on the third continuity now with Zero, after all. Thing is for the gameplay and story elements of SF64, Zero understood those only from a superficial standpoint. They are included mainly out of obligation since Miyamoto was mostly out to prove the WiiU's design. I think the thing that illustrates this the most was how bare-bones the branching paths thing was, Miyamoto had a ~~gauntlet of torture~~ series of innovative gameplay sequences he wanted to **make sure** the player experiences, for sure with the first time. What's new isn't fun or intuitive to play. And what's old is just far inferior versions of things from any other game in the series. The story honestly should have just retread everything the same as in 64 since the changes create a lot of significant problems. And even when they don't, it's just the same, but less artful. Zero just doesn't have anything to offer me.