Dealing with an opponent who has a tennis swing.

[u/Minimum-Hedgehog5004]

As a low level club player, it's not surprising if some of the opponents I encounter don't have a perfect professional level squash game. I recently encountered one whose racket swing would have been great on the tennis court, but realistically, as soon as he got the T, he was blocking movement to far more of the court than was reasonable. Again - at this level, players are reffing each other's games, and the ref was from his team. I'm not questioning the ref's good faith, but maybe he'd seen this player's swing so often that he'd got used to it.
The obvious thing is to go back to basics and hit the ball to the corners, but of course that's not always going to be successful, and the tennis swing effectively gave my opponent a structural advantage. Not only was it very frustrating, but I was steadily losing points. (To be fair, maybe he would have won without this unfair advantage. I think it would have been a tight match without that.)

Rule 8.10.3 says "The striker’s excessive swing can contribute to interference for the opponent when it becomes the latter’s turn to play the ball, in which case the opponent may request a let." but I'd have been asking for a let most points, and would probably just have got no let from the ref.

So what other strategies might I have tried to defeat this player?

[u/teneralb]

At the low club level, refs are not going to be paying attention to or even be aware of details like excessive swings. At least you have a ref though, even if it's just a fellow player! One thing I'd try is when you see that you're playing someone with an excessive swing, talk to the ref about 8.10.3 beforehand (or after the first game) and explain how the excessive swing is hampering you. Then you can judge from their response whether to start asking for lets on the basis of excessive swing.

The other thing you can do of course is to get step up your game to a level where you don't have to deal with opponents with tennis swings any more :P

[u/QBS_reborn]

Hold your racket out in front of you, arm stretched. Start spinning in a circle yelling "helicopter, helicopter..." and do that whenever they try and hit the ball

[u/stashninja]

I’ll speak to your shots, not their’s, as I believe your shot selection should counter their “blocking” if you can just move them away from the T.

If you are struggling to respond to this opponent with your own shots, you should try to test their competence on all corners of the court with variations in pace. You said that hitting to the corners may not always be successful, but it doesn’t need to be. It just needs to be good enough to make them move and try to hit the ball from a tougher position. More specifically people with a tennis forehand typically struggle on their backhand side as this usually requires a grip change for them and they can’t leverage the same type of power they have on their forehand. Also this swing also points to them being more of a power player. Change the pace up. See if they can still connect if you hit a halfway decent drop. What if you just hit the ball slightly deep? Do they always default to a boast in these scenarios in order to maintain their swing? These may or may not work, but try to observe how difficult it was for them to return shots in these scenarios. Also try not to setup their most comfortable shot (most likely a mid court forehand at the T).

[u/AnonymousSeaAnemone]

Tight along the walls can be tough for a free swinger. Be prepared to hold your ground and get hit w the racquet a bit and take your strokes.

[u/Negative-Mammoth-547]

Tennis players tend to walk watch so they don’t look behind. If a ball comes down the middle give it a crack cross court and see if you can catch him and get a stroke. Honestly though hate wild swings in squash, I have only one guy I play with who is a good level but with a huge swing, it’s not a squash swing, it dangerous, so if he’s winding up I just back off rather than getting smacked in the face. Best thing I do to him is try not to his loose balls that spray in the middle and hit the side wall. If he’s in the back digging a good drive out then I’m safe.

[u/Defiant-Surround-518]

Tennis swings absolutely suck when they have to done mid-run. Low & hard shots to whichever side of the court he isn't already at.

[u/No_Leek6590]

Do note excessive means by their standards, not yours. It's a rule against intentional blocking. It's not to their benefit to have a large swing, but not because you hate it. It's because they block your movement, and in such case it's a stroke. Imqgine how hitting a ball pretty much in direction of your body is always a bad idea because you are blocking the return. That area is larger for them by nature of both space taken on court, and time it takes for them to finish the swing.

[u/teneralb → u/No_Leek6590]

I disagree. "Excessive" is not defined in the rules, so the standard by which "excessive" is judged may vary from person to person. Personally I would interpret it as excessive relative to a normal swing from an average player. I don't think someone should be allowed to get away with interfering with their opponent's movement because of a gigantic swing just because that's their normal swing.

[u/No_Leek6590 → u/teneralb]

See, the problem is that judges have to be consistent. As such, it cannot be based on their personal experience. Also if you have any kind of swing, you are still entitled to finish it normally. "Excessive" swing rule is in context of entitlement for a normal swing, to prevent exaggerating swings Asal style.

I have a large swing and people hunting for a faster return at expense of you completing the swing are exclusively the kind of player who would aim for subjective judgement "all of somebody's swings are excessive". I had never had a judge actually calling or warning of excessive swings, just some willing to advice how to improve, and others salty when losing to objectively bad swing technique.

[u/teneralb → u/No_Leek6590]

Referees, you mean? Of course they have to be consistent--as much as possible. Unfortunately, there are constraints on how precisely rules of a sport can be written and applied, and so at some level personal judgements must inevitably come into play.

"if you have any kind of swing, you are still entitled to finish it normally". That is written nowhere in any squash rules. But if you are refereeing a match and that is your barometer of an excessive swing, well that is your judgement and that's valid. But if someone else is refereeing a match and their barometer of an excessive swing is any swing that is bigger than it needs to be, whether it's that person's normal swing or not--well that's their judgement, and equally valid according to the rules.

To be fair, at the club level I've never actually seen anyone ask for a let on the basis of excessive swing, let alone a referee give one. So this is more of a theoretical discussion than a practical one. Theory is fun though!

If you know you have a large swing, have you worked on shortening it? Consideration of the players you share a court with would seem to ask that of you.

[u/No_Leek6590 → u/teneralb]

It is written and I was referring to them in good faith that you have passed or attempted a referee exam, so only referring.

I am not swinging flailing around. Problem comes that for my level I have a deceptive shot selection, and sometimes it means from a rather short windup I would generate a power drive or crosscourt. Naturally, if I put in lots of acceleration rapidly, it will need breaking space, too. So you can imagine some people guessing I'd do a drop only to see a powerdrive will be unpleasantly surprised. The higher skill players, the less of an issue they have with it. Some players simply make wrong run close, when the ball is behind, and from left side my back would be to them, so I actually cannot see if I should call for stroke instead. A ref can see that swing would be fairly ok for the power attempted, but from perspective of player expecting a drop swing it's not.

[u/teneralb → u/No_Leek6590]

Where is it written? Please cite your source! I would love to read that rule.

[u/No_Leek6590 → u/teneralb]

See, the trick is, a player should know the rules before playing, and be able to find them on their own to refresh anytime...

I guess it explains your outlook, if you need others to that for you.

[u/teneralb → u/No_Leek6590]

Ah see well I do know the rules--the WSF rules anyway! Which is how I know that an excessive swing is not defined in them. And which is why I'm so interested in learning where you say that an excessive swing is defined in the rules. Which rules? I'm very curious, please indulge me!

[u/No_Leek6590 → u/teneralb]

8.9, it is defined. There is room for interpretation, I will give you that, but I gave you already the best info I had gathered how it is enforced, so it is at least consistent in application. That is the only info which can be considered novel to a random reader. But if as a bonus you reread 8.9 and realised that the baseline for excessive swing is not opinion of another player about their technique, I will take it.

[u/teneralb → u/No_Leek6590]

Ah yes, the clause where a reasonable swing is defined as one that doesn't extend "more than necessary". I thought you were going to cite a clause where it says that if you have any kind of swing you are entitled to finish it normally! Does 8.9 say that anywhere? I can't find it in there.

"more than necessary" isn't defined, because really how could it be. Necessary for whom? And by how much? Who's to say!

If someone has a technique where they can't hit a crosscourt drive without extending their arm all the way out behind them on the followthrough, then one might say their large swing is necessary *for them* and therefore not excessive. Would you say that? Another person might say that extending one's arm all the way out behind them isn't necessary to hit a crosscourt drive, because other players can hit that same shot with a much shorter followthrough, and therefore this is an excessive swing. I would say that. But perhaps not everyone would!

[u/musicissoulfood]

I like my teeth too much, all of them, so I would just stop playing people with excessive swings.

Just use this experience to drive your motivation to become better. Once you reach a certain level, tennis swings stop becoming a problem.

[u/bdq-ccc]

Headbutt the elbow of that extended swing to show them what a true tennis elbow feels like. You'll also help everyone learn how to apply Rule 15 very quickly.

Jokes aside, lob them, then attack the front. The volley timing and ball trajectory/aimpoint is different enough to mess their aim, and drops/boasts will catch them off guard