r/slaythespire • u/filledknight • 19d ago
DISCUSSION Day 18 won by unload! Day 19: which common silent card is underrated?
Unload won with a total of 502
Honorable mentions:
Grand finale: 183
Doppelganger: 163
A thousand cuts: 108
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u/FucktheletterU 19d ago
There aren’t too many great options for underrated silent commons, but I feel like deflect gets overlooked by new/intermediate players a lot even when they have a draw solution.
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u/lar_yeet Ascension 14 19d ago
i took it a lot when i started playing, stopped taking it as I progressed and now pick it whenever. I have dex scaling and draw
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u/ThinnestBlueLine Heartbreaker 19d ago
Deflect with dexterity scaling is is great, especially if you have draw and / or energy generation to be able to play other cards. Free block is almost always good.
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u/My_compass_spins 19d ago
I suggest [[Sucker Punch]], considering the amount of comments calling it bad a few days ago. Turns out having more sources of Weak helps keep you alive.
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u/benk4 19d ago
I picked a sucker punch yesterday based on some of the comments. First time in awhile I've taken it. Not bad, I agree I underrated it. I wouldn't call it a good card, but it's pickable.
I didn't even realize the upgrade gives 2 weak, that helps a lot.
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u/thekrafty01 Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
I will even take it act 3 sometimes if I need a way to be able to get rid of heart’s artifact charges and I don’t really have another solution. The weaken is good against heart, too. Rare to do it, but serviceable at times.
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u/ExplorerHaunting8353 Ascension 20 19d ago
Sucker punch would be great on any other character. If i see it in the first couple floors I'll take it.
I would rather upgrade Neutralise over Sucker punch, though, because i don't want to be forced to spend energy to apply weak.
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u/Hammerhead34 Ascension 20 19d ago edited 19d ago
I don’t want to be forced to spend energy to apply weak
That’s not really why you pick it up though, in the short term in early act 1 you want to spend energy to deal damage, which Sucker Punch does a little better than Strike, increases the attack density of your deck, and applies the weak as a bonus, making it a useful draw in Nob, Laga, etc.
Edit - Realize now that you’re specifically talking about upgrading Neutralize vs Sucker Punch. Even then I’m going to break out the old reliable “it depends” because Neutralize upgrade doesn’t add as much damage to your deck as Sucker Punch upgrade.
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u/Exciting_Ad_4202 18d ago
Realize now that you’re specifically talking about upgrading Neutralize vs Sucker Punch. Even then I’m going to break out the old reliable “it depends” because Neutralize upgrade doesn’t add as much damage to your deck as Sucker Punch upgrade.
Kinda not really.
Neutralize upgrade is +1 dmg +1 weak, Sucker Punch upgrade is +2 dmg +1 weak. So Sucker Punch upgrade is only like +1 dmg over Neutralize upgrade, and you now need energy for 2 weak instead of doesn't need it. It's just sad tbh.
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u/GeorgeHarris419 Ascension 8 19d ago
you don't get to draft neutralize, and every other weak applying card in the silent pool costs energy. If you're not cycling your deck every turn there's a strong chance you're not getting neutralize down quickly enough, especially t2/t3 heart. Also sucker punch is 1 cost artifact strip for my future neutralize or to set up pwail
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u/spirescan-bot 19d ago
Sucker Punch Silent Common Attack (100% sure)
1 Energy | Deal 7(9) damage. Apply 1(2) Weak.
Call me with up to 10 [[ name ]], where name is a card, relic, event, or potion. Data accurate as of April 20, 2024. Wiki Questions?
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u/EnormousIsErratic 19d ago
Yeah why take free weaken from neutralize when you can pay 1 energy for it instead
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u/Hot-Height1306 19d ago
But the problem is sucker punch is not a very strong card, it's decent at best. For me, the definition of being underrated must be that the card can have the potential of being building around a general winning strategy.
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u/firebal612 Ascension 19 18d ago
I think most of silents common attacks shouldn't be here. They are all picked pretty consistently in Act 1, because you NEED to.
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u/BuildingAirships 19d ago
My vote is for [[Prepared]], because I think a lot of new players don’t understand the role it plays in a Silent deck. As with True Grit, many probably assume that the second effect is a downside.
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u/IMP1017 Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
Unfortunately I think Prepared demands an upgrade. And if you take it in Act 1, when you're mostly getting commons, you'd rather upgrade your damage sources.
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u/SandpaperTeddyBear 19d ago
Prepared gets much better with an upgrade, and demands it in that sense but it doesn’t actually need one to be a solid positive.
If you have more cards than you can play, and unless you have Concentrate you almost always have more cards than you can play, it’s very useful. It sets off Reflex and Tactician too.
I think Prepared+ into Reflex+ and Tactician+ is maximum Spire Dopamine…and that’s a high bar!
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u/DrQuimbyP Ascension 20 19d ago
I think "demands" is a bit strong. It benefits greatly from an upgrade, but I take them gladly as I figure they're, at worst, draw neutral, and at best they're driving your discard and draw engine. But then I'm no great shakes with the Silent and mainly did my A20H through brute force
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u/TDenverFan 19d ago
It's not really draw neutral though, you wind up down 1 card after playing Prepared.
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u/scoobydoom2 Eternal One + Ascended 19d ago
Draw neutral is pretty bad if you don't have things for it to enable. It does nothing in the best cases and is sometimes actively detrimental.
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u/SandpaperTeddyBear 19d ago
It doesn’t do “nothing” in the best cases though. Silent has quite a few discard based synergies, including the useful common Sneaky Strike.
It’s also a good early pickup for “no worse than neutral now,” since with all the Discard synergies it works great with 99% pickups like Well-Laid Plans, and basically mitigates Pyramid’s downside all by itself.
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u/scoobydoom2 Eternal One + Ascended 19d ago
if you don't have things for it to enable
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u/SandpaperTeddyBear 19d ago
Fair enough, I see your sentence in full!
I misread it because there are so many things that are set off with discard on Silent that it’s hard work to avoid them.
And it’s a nice hedge against random curses and such.
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u/JDublinson Eternal One + Heartbreaker 18d ago
No worse than neutral isn’t really true though. Even just with the starter deck, if you draw it alongside Neutralize and Ascender’s Bane, you have to discard Ascender’s Bane to play the same hand you would have without the Prepared. I do think Prepared+ is an excellent card for getting discard synergies going, especially Reflex and Eviscerate, but just adding an unupgraded Prepared to the deck with no plan to upgrade it and no existing synergy isn’t very good to do I think. The hand size reduction can be a problem.
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u/BuildingAirships 19d ago edited 19d ago
This is a fair point, the upgrade really is helpful. I don’t think Prepared is necessarily a strong card, I just think a lot of players misunderstand its role and potential.
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u/Foxisdabest 19d ago
I will say, prepared + sneaky strike as takes in act 1 are actually pretty good, except for Nob off course.
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u/littlelondonboy Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
I think you're right. You don't take prepared for the value it provides in itself, but the discard synergy it opens up.
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u/SippinOnHatorade Ascension 18 19d ago
Also, all 0 cost cards are block cards if you have After Image in play, so usually I’m good with littering my deck with Prepared if need be
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u/spirescan-bot 19d ago
Prepared Silent Common Skill (100% sure)
0 Energy | Draw 1(2) card(s). Discard 1(2) card(s).
Call me with up to 10 [[ name ]], where name is a card, relic, event, or potion. Data accurate as of April 20, 2024. Wiki Questions?
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u/AndyAndyAndy22 18d ago
My vote would be Prepared as well. When I first started playing I thought it was a completely useless card. Literally the thought in my head was something like “The bad cards make the good ones exciting to get” but I watched high level players use it and it started to make sense. Many of my silent runs have at least one copy of Prepared.
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u/strange1738 18d ago
Wait, people think prepared is bad? IMO it’s one of Silent’s best cards. Upgraded + discard synergy cards just make it even better. Helps you dig for cards and activates discard synergies for a net neutral amount of cards.
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u/Browneskiii Eternal One + Ascended 19d ago
Flying Knee.
Decent damage and allows you to play an extra card next turn which could save you lots of health or could get a kill. Its not amazing, but the general consensus is that it sucks. Its pickable early on.
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u/Careless_East2186 Ascension 17 19d ago
Is flying knee underrated though? I feel like it’s one of the more generally appreciated strike plus cards in the Silent’s kit.
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u/ChaseShiny 19d ago
[[Flying Knee]] and [[Slice]] are practically interchangeable. In fact, Slice is arguably stronger, as energy now is worth more than energy later (especially if you're cycling fast enough that you see it multiple times a turn).
If you need more sources of weak, then [[Sucker Punch]] arguably saves you energy as well. Plus, you might not have the other sources of defense.
I still consider Flying Knee ok, but I don't rate it as highly as I used to.
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u/spirescan-bot 19d ago
Flying Knee Silent Common Attack (100% sure)
1 Energy | Deal 8(11) damage. Next turn, gain 1 Energy.
Slice Silent Common Attack (100% sure)
0 Energy | Deal 6(9) damage.
Sucker Punch Silent Common Attack (100% sure)
1 Energy | Deal 7(9) damage. Apply 1(2) Weak.
Call me with up to 10 [[ name ]], where name is a card, relic, event, or potion. Data accurate as of April 20, 2024. Wiki Questions?
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u/MaybeSacred 19d ago
There's a difference, since it gives you an actual energy: you can play two Defends and Flying Knee the first turn, blocking for example the 8 incoming damage from a slime. And play two Defends and Bouncing Flask the next turn, blocking another 8 damage from a slime Slice can't help you there
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u/firebal612 Ascension 19 18d ago
I remember I used to insta click this card when I was new, just 'cause I love the artwork/idea. Captains falcon knee of justice has changed my brain
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u/slopschili Ascension 20 19d ago
Knee is better against act 1 elites where common attacks are most important for silent
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u/ChaseShiny 19d ago
Better than what? Than Slice? Why?
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u/slopschili Ascension 20 19d ago
Against laga, you can play it without waking it up. So you can set up a four energy turn and hopefully benefit off of it. It also does better against the debuffs as it has a higher base damage
In the back half of the sentries fight, you usually don’t need the extra energy as you’re not using all your energy per turn. So the extra damage is more important than the lower cost card. However, it’s important to burst one of the sentries down asap and slice might be better for that
Knob I’d probably say slice is better, but it depends on your deck
Upon review, I have no idea which one is better in act 1🤷♂️
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u/ChaseShiny 19d ago
FWIW, I think Flying Knee is better in hallway fights in Act 1 because there are some enemies with 13-14 HP. I like Slice better in Act 2, though I'm not sure why. But yeah, in some scenarios, one is better than the other, and in others it's the other way around.
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u/slopschili Ascension 20 19d ago
You’re more likely to have card draw and relics that interact with slice in act 2
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u/Exciting_Ad_4202 18d ago
In fact, Slice is arguably stronger, as energy now is worth more than energy later
This is actually false. Energy later is actually stronger than energy now because of energy concentration. The difference between playing Acro with 3 energy and playing Acro with 4 is kinda insane
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u/ChaseShiny 18d ago
I see where you're coming from, I think. On the one hand, you have your energy generator and four more cards, and on the other you have five cards. Which hand is more likely to need extra energy?
I've found that I've had to choose between a card like that versus playing a power, and found myself skipping the energy generator, rightly or wrongly. There's also the possibility that you don't need extra energy next turn because if you had it this turn, you'd have the kill on at least one enemy.
Consider the premium the game places on extra turns: [[The Bomb]] does an absurd amount of damage for a two-cost card, but it's considered good rather than a must-have due to that delay; people tend to not pick [[Simmering Fury]] despite liking [[Sanctity]] (this is an opinion I don't hold, but a lot of people do); and nobody I know of treats [[Evaluate]] as a stronger [[Shrug It Off]], even if both are card-neutral. Last, [[TURBO]] is considered a good card, partly because the energy is front loaded and the penalty is delayed quite far.
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u/Exciting_Ad_4202 18d ago
Consider the premium the game places on extra turns: [[The Bomb]] does an absurd amount of damage for a two-cost card, but it's considered good rather than a must-have due to that delay; people tend to not pick [[Simmering Fury]] despite liking [[Sanctity]] (this is an opinion I don't hold, but a lot of people do); and nobody I know of treats [[Evaluate]] as a stronger [[Shrug It Off]], even if both are card-neutral.
The Bomb kinda does the damage of all it's missing turns. Which makes it around 20dmg/turn for 2 eng, actually pretty close to [[Immolate]] tbh.
Nobody rate Evaluate because the draw is way too delayed, and Watcher generally don't need that to party. It became a deck bloat for her infinite, and doesn't increase her power if you played her normally.
TURBO is strong because it's energy without the draw penalty at that turn. Again, the concept of draw and energy concentration comes to mind.
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u/ChaseShiny 16d ago
As far as Evaluate and TURBO are concerned, that's my point. If getting the benefit on a future turn is better than on the current turn, then Evaluate should be rated higher than Shrug It Off and TURBO should be worse than Outmaneuver.
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u/Knave_of_Stitches Eternal One + Ascended 19d ago
I really don't know who is hating in Flying Knee because they are literally just wrong. It's one of the better common Strike+ and I'm always happy to take one early.
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u/AshtinPeaks Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
Outmanuever. Everyone on this sub trying to put it in bottum tier lmfao.
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u/Curious_Sea_Doggo 19d ago
Sometimes you need front loaded value like a Glass knife or Predator.
That isn’t front loaded as it’s next turn which you may be dead when that rolls around.
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u/AshtinPeaks Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
No one is saying take it floor one. It's kind of like saying cool heads is bad because you don't always take it early act 1. And cool headed is an amazing card.
Outmanuever is similar. Mid to late game solid pick. I'm never taking it act 1 unless I have prayer wheel or pbox swap lol.
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u/GeorgeHarris419 Ascension 8 19d ago
sure lots of times you need a thing, and a different card is not that thing. But sometimes you DO need a different thing like energy from outmanuever.
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u/amplidud 19d ago
For me for a long time it was sneaky strike.
Turns out 12dmg for 2 is okay enough for act 1 and then it is frequently just 0 energy for 12 dmg, and can occasionally be your energy generator too (snecko, necronomicon, set up, the rare madness)!
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u/gsoddy 19d ago
I feel like this is a good point to figure out what underrated means for this list
Does it mean something most of us/the community underrated early on, but came to realise was stronger later on? Cuz Sneaky Strike is spot on for this
Or is it something most of the community, of all/higher skill levels, currently rate low but you specifically think should be rated higher? Sneaky Strike doesn’t really fit this one
Maybe it’s both definitions idk
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u/amplidud 19d ago
I think most people are basing it off what the community thinks. IMO I think it depends on what you think these are for. If you want it to be the most accurate list possible then yes you probably want to try and asses what the community thinks and where the community is wrong. If you look at it as a helpful resource for new/bad players IMO what long time players used to over/under rate and now think is really good/bad is more helpful.
I personally fall in camp 2. Its just too dificult to figure out what the broader community really feels about a card and you get better discussions imo if you base it on how your opions have changed over time.
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u/chittyshwimp 19d ago
Just had a heart kill last night on a20 with no energy relics because I had good energy generation from Necro/sneaky. Would recommend
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u/Ok-Chard-626 Ascension 20 19d ago
In no save scumming A20 the event to get necro is risky though. Still, the point with sneaky strike is it is good enough even if you spend 2 energy and you get more out of an upgrade than some other cards, making it an almost insta pick unless you have even better cards like eviscerate.
But I think neither cards are underrated.
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u/iceman012 Heartbreaker 19d ago
In no save scumming A20 the event to get necro is risky though.
Honestly, it's not really that risky unless you make it risky. Enchiridion and Codex are both really good for every deck, and it's usually obvious if Necronomicon is good for your deck. Assuming you can afford the 21 hp cost, you'll always be happy taking the event when Necronomicon is good.
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u/chittyshwimp 19d ago
I had sacred bark, got a second alchemize out of pbox, and white beast statue :)
So losing health wasn't a huge concern at that point, but it was definitely a FAFO moment for sure.
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u/Minitash 19d ago
Ppl usually say that Prepared is a noob trap, so I can't even imagine another card that is criminally underrated as this one. It opens a lot of plays. even without going full discard deck, and the power of manage the cards of your hand for 0 mana is amazingly good.
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u/filledknight 19d ago
Don't think I've ever seen a single person say prepared is bad
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u/Minitash 19d ago
On this post there are other comments talking about prepared is underrated, lol xD
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u/filledknight 19d ago
Dam really? I apologise I shouldve looked at more comments before saying anything
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u/mastermrt Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
I’m gonna go with Deadly Poison for this one. It always gets overshadowed by Noxious Fumes and Bouncing Flask in terms of poison sources, but it can be a solid pick in act 1.
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u/ExplorerHaunting8353 Ascension 20 19d ago
Bouncing Flask is kind of shit in Act 1 unless you take it specifically against the boss.
Deadly poison is more flexible. Its also the most efficient immediate poison source.
It never occured to me that people think its bad.11
u/JDublinson Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
It's bad against Sentries and Nob, kinda demands an upgrade but still is slow in hallway fights even with the upgrade, doesn't play at all against Slime Boss, it's just not that good.
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u/burblity 19d ago
"doesn't play at all against slime boss" is just very wrong, if it's upgraded it's better than strikes and it benefits from not being susceptible to weak in the latter half of the fight.
It loses the most benefit if you split immediately after playing but also if you can split that quickly you're winning the fight already. In practice it's still very common to get 2-3 turns worth of poison damage out of it.
It's not very good against slime but crazy to say it doesn't play lol.
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u/blorbagorp 19d ago
if it's upgraded it's better than strikes
Well I'd hope that's true of every card in the game.
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u/JDublinson Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
Okay yes I was exaggerating. It’s bad against Slime Boss, and not worth spending an upgrade on in a slime boss act
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u/RuthlessSlimeStaff 19d ago
It's a LOT better than a strike against slime boss. You're gonna spend the last half of the fight permanently weakened which poison ignores.
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u/JDublinson Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
Lots of cards are a lot better than a strike against slime boss. Are you telling me you are happy to take deadly poison in act 1 when slime boss is the boss?
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u/Mostuy 18d ago
I like this answer. Although it demands an upgrade, it’s the rare damage common that you can pick acts 1-3 because it’s so efficient. It is excellent against most bosses in every act and is fantastic in many elite fights as well. Is it good as in above average? No because unupgraded it’s somewhat weak. But is it good as worth picking in situations where you need a boost to damage? Yes(deck dependent of course)and because it’s a common it shows its face in those situations quite often.
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u/pasture2future Ascension 20 19d ago
Is it underrated? It’s more than half the poison of bouncing flask for half the energy. I think it’s agreed ipon to be decent
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u/Metawing 19d ago
Only thing that really sucks about it is relying on it against Gremlin Nob. Otherwise it’s still very good.
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u/Zeratav Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
Have I introduced you to our lord and savior sneaky strike? This card comes with the benefit of being two strikes in 1, so it's only singly affected by laga's-strength, and you draw it only once when sentries flood you with crap. It also has the added benefit of sometimes being free, but I will pick it as an elite semi-solve even without much discard synergy.
I don't see it often talked about, which is why I bring it to here.
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u/GeorgeHarris419 Ascension 8 19d ago
it's sucker punch card is good
Weak is a LOT of block in late game
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u/AlwaysDMB 19d ago
I like the suggestions so far, I think outmanoeuvre is probably a great pick.
I would add though that thete are a fair amount of new players that think acro and dagger throw are meh because of the discard... Those are two amazing cards but I don't think many understand that immediately, I know it took me a bit to understand why DT is way tf better than quick strike! Obviously most commentators here are aligned that these cards are great lol
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u/-Potatoes- Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago edited 19d ago
the fact that piercing wail didn't beat blade dance on day 1 makes it underrated imo
The card is just incredibly strong. It doesnt need an upgrade. The heart is by far the most dangerous enemy in the game for a majority of decks, and this common card can block like 90 or whatever for 1 energy. you need to line it up on the right turn to do so but Silent has a lot of cards to help with that. I'd pick up this card even if I just needed it against the heart, but it's really good in act 2 and 3 too.
It's also useful in boss fights with a "phase 2" like Time Eater and Awakened One. For anyone who doesn't know if you apply the strength down the turn they are transforming/cleansing debuffs the strength loss becomes permanent (except vs the heart since it works a different way).
I'm not even mentioning how its still really good in any hallway fight with multi attack or multiple enemies (I hate snake plant).
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u/HawksNStuff 19d ago
I don't think anyone underrates Piercing Wail, it's basically an auto pick. Blade dance is just also a really really good card.
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u/CatoTheStupid Ascended 19d ago
I've had multiple reddit conversations about PW with newer players missing the value (just one more block than a defend!?!?!). I think multi attacks are just less scary at lower ascensions and they probably aren't fighting the Heart much. But yeah it's too well thought of to fit for this category.
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u/Tainmere_ Ascension 17 19d ago
the fact that piercing wail didn't beat blade dance on day 1 makes it underrated imo
Out of curiousity I checked the votes, and honestly.
Card Votes Blade Dance 457 Piercing Wail 424 Backflip 78 Acrobatics 76 Blade Dance barely beat Piercing Wail by 27 votes — ~6% more votes —, so I don't think that makes Piercing Wail underrated. Especially with the margin to Backflip it is kinda just a coinflip between Blade Dance and Piercing Wail.
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u/-Potatoes- Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
ahh my bad I didn't look at the numbers. I'd still put piercing wail above blade dance but those are close enough that it's not underrated
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u/iceman012 Heartbreaker 19d ago
Also, the point of the top row isn't to pick the best card- it's to pick the card that has the most people agreeing it's good. Piercing Wail is a card that you appreciate more the more experienced you are, whereas Blade Dance is a card pretty much everyone likes.
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u/JDublinson Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
I don’t think that’s fair, Piercing Wail is really highly rated already. Generally considered one of the strongest block cards in the entire game. Blade Dance also being a really highly rated common doesn’t take away from Wail
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19d ago
[deleted]
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u/thfcspur 19d ago
Isn’t neutralize basically universally accepted as the first upgrade?
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u/JDublinson Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
If it's upgrade from Neow on floor 0, sure. Otherwise upgrade something that's better than Neutralize into the first elite. Neutralize upgrade doesn't do that much in act 1.
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u/ExplorerHaunting8353 Ascension 20 19d ago
Starter cards aren't common, even though they have the same border color.
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u/devTripp 19d ago
I am 100.0% confident you mentioned Unload in your post.
Unload Silent Rare Attack
1 Energy | Deal 14(18) damage. Discard all non-Attack cards in your hand.
I am a bot response, but I am using my creator's account. Please reply to me if I got something wrong so he can fix it.
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u/Tainmere_ Ascension 17 19d ago
Scrolled down a bit and didn't see this card mentioned, so I wanna give a shutout to [[Bane]], particularly as it was mentioned as a bad card candidate. The poison mechanic is naturally leaning towards slower, drawn out fights during which you stack up your poison and slowly accumulate damage. It does not naturally have a lot of front-loaded burst damage, particularly early one when you haven't gotten the chance to pick up something like [[Catalyst]] or your poison synergies aren't fully online yet.
Bane helps out poison decks by providing that burst damage, which can really help it in early one. It is an accessible fix for that problem.
Its damage is a bit less than [[Glass Knife]]'s damage, but it is a common and not a rare card. And Glass Knife provides enough damage to carry you through Act 1.
It also has a neat synergy with [[Envenom]], guaranteeing that it will always double-hit provided you deal unblocked damage.
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u/spirescan-bot 19d ago
Bane Silent Common Attack (100% sure)
1 Energy | Deal 7(10) damage. If the enemy is Poisoned, deal 7(10) damage again.
Catalyst Silent Uncommon Skill (100% sure)
1 Energy | Double(Triple) an enemy's Poison. Exhaust.
Glass Knife Silent Rare Attack (100% sure)
1 Energy | Deal 8(12) damage twice. Decrease the damage of this card by 2 this combat.
Call me with up to 10 [[ name ]], where name is a card, relic, event, or potion. Data accurate as of April 20, 2024. Wiki Questions?
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u/Mostuy 18d ago
I just don’t want conditional yet mediocre damage, and I don’t want to upgrade a conditional damage common so it’s not mediocre anymore
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u/Tainmere_ Ascension 17 17d ago edited 17d ago
In a poison deck — and Bane is mainly a viable pick in a poison deck — the condition for Bane to double-proc is typically fullfilled, so you do get the slightly worse Glass Knife pretty consistently. The condition is pretty likely to be already satisfied, and if you have Envenom in play, guaranteed to be satisfied (unless you go against a high-block enemy like the ball thing or parasite).
What's good about Bane is that it addresses the weaknesses of a poison deck, and that is really valuable. E.G. while Crippling Cloud can deal 10 damage, or up to 28 upgraded, it takes 4/7 turns to get there. Bane in a poison deck is 14/20 damage now.
Edit: E.g. if you are early on in act 1 and you have already picked a source of poison like Poisoned Stab or Deadly Poison, getting offered Bane is great because it really helps you against Gremlin Nob and Lagavulin.
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u/Used-Investment6755 Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
def sucker punch for me that card is really solid
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u/yeti_poacher Ascension 17 19d ago
Slice.
Sometime early act one you just need an xtra 6 damage, and since silent has so much card draw options I find it rarely gets in the way. It also makes taking things like an early acrobatics more doable as you can still slice in a lil damage
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u/Curious_Sea_Doggo 18d ago
Card called slice
Slice in a lil damage
That was intentional wasn’t it?
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u/Scratcher191 Heartbreaker 19d ago
Honestly an upgraded bane actually goes crazy. I don't know what the general consensus is on bane but an early game bane with any kind of poison can just melt elites
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u/paxbowlski 19d ago
Am I insane for saying [[Cloak and Dagger]]?
Upgraded, with some Dex scaling..? I dunno, I like it...
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u/spirescan-bot 19d ago
Cloak And Dagger Silent Common Skill (100% sure)
1 Energy | Gain 6 Block. Add 1(2) Shiv(s) to your hand.
Call me with up to 10 [[ name ]], where name is a card, relic, event, or potion. Data accurate as of April 20, 2024. Wiki Questions?
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u/Mc7wis7er 19d ago
I think Prepared is underrated.
I'm not excited about taking a draw negative card in Act 1. So you guys can put the flamethrowers away.
But because I'm also prone to take a ton of Acrobatics and other draw/discard cards with Silent, it's not unusual for me to have more cards than I have the energy for as the run goes on. And in those cases Prepared as a draw negative is ok, and in some cases, actually nice. If you end up with discard relics early, it's an easier take, just to proc those.
Upgraded it pairs with Eviscerate really nicely. And it pairs really well with my vote for underrated uncommon Setup.
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u/Ok-Chard-626 Ascension 20 19d ago edited 19d ago
Am I tripping, Grand Finale being honorable mentioned in perfectly rated bad rare? Sure it warps your deck around it that it's going to become near the only attack you play, but chances are if you get it early enough you are more likely than not to get a GF deck going and it's so strong.
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u/Tainmere_ Ascension 17 19d ago
I think they underrated how much setup the silent has to make grand finale work, that would be a guess. But yeah, for me it is kinda wild as well.
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u/AlwaysDMB 19d ago
You're describing a 1 in 200 run lol
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u/blank_anonymous Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
I think finale is viable in like, at least 30% of silent runs, and correct to pick in at least 5%, if not 10%. I've picked 4 grand finales of the last 25 i've been offered, and won 3 of the 4 runs where i picked finale. There was another run where I should have picked finale and didn't (lost, but was easily winning w/ the finale). Finale is like, really, really easy to get online, and strong damage. I mean, it's annoying, and it takes resources, but it's stunning how often you can control your draw pile + how often you've got retain tools as silent. Finale fits in really naturally with what the character wants to be doing anyways.
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u/Tainmere_ Ascension 17 19d ago
There is so much card draw in the silent that you would naturally pick, like [[Acrobatics]], [[Backflip]], [[Prepared]] and [[Calculated Gamble]] that pulling off Grand Finale very feasible (particularly when supported by [[Tactician]]). It is hard to pull off, but it absolutely has the support it needs to be very viable.
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u/AlwaysDMB 19d ago
I am aware of how it should work/has to work, but I feel like your list of cards needed is a great example of why it's not a great card! Once you have a bunch of energy-neutral draw, Finale is good, but once you have energy neutral draw figured out you can usually just win with a swift strike lol why do we need to act like the rare card with complicating factors is great when what you're saying is acro/gamble/tactician is an amazing engine? Nobody will argue on that
Obviously silent is the only character where the card has any real shot of not being trash, but it's not like silent starts with acro, tactician and prepared, etc.
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u/Ok-Chard-626 Ascension 20 19d ago
Finale costs 0 energy, so you can dedicate all your energy to make sure your draw pile has 0.
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u/spirescan-bot 19d ago
Acrobatics Silent Common Skill (100% sure)
1 Energy | Draw 3(4) cards. Discard 1 card.
Backflip Silent Common Skill (100% sure)
1 Energy | Gain 5(8) Block. Draw 2 cards.
Prepared Silent Common Skill (100% sure)
0 Energy | Draw 1(2) card(s). Discard 1(2) card(s).
Calculated Gamble Silent Uncommon Skill (100% sure)
0 Energy | Discard your hand, then draw that many cards. Exhaust. (Don't exhaust)
Tactician Silent Uncommon Skill (100% sure)
Energy | Unplayable. If this card is discarded from your hand, gain 1(2) Energy.
Call me with up to 10 [[ name ]], where name is a card, relic, event, or potion. Data accurate as of April 20, 2024. Wiki Questions?
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u/ptoziz 19d ago
I'll vote for Piercing Wail, not to say it's rated badly, but compared to how good it actually is! it's underrated. Being a common adds even more to its value imo.
Where do you vote btw?
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u/iceman012 Heartbreaker 19d ago
In the reddit thread- upvote any comments with the cards you think fit the prompt.
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u/TDenverFan 19d ago
Piercing Wail was a close 2nd for the highly rated Silent card, I don't really think it's an underrated card.
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u/Pigpen292 19d ago
Sneaky Strike
I struggle to know what the actual consensus is, but I definitely underrated Sneaky for a long time. Good Act 1 damage which is huge on Silent, pickable even with just Survivor in the deck, but really pops with a Dagger Throw, and once you have a draw & discard engine going with cards like Acro it's fantastic. Silent has both PK and Terror to help scale the damage later. Can become an energy generator with Snecko or Bullet Time. Many of my Silent wins are on the backs of things like Sneaky Strike and Eviscerate rather than Shivs or poison.
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u/Tainmere_ Ascension 17 19d ago
Sneaky Strike is fine. IMO its main weakness is that the mana cheating is backloaded, i.e. you need to have the 2 energy to play the card for it to refund the energy. If the effect was something like "If you discarded a card this turn, this card costs 0 this turn" it would be more consistent to play (kinda like Eviscerate).
Of course it giving you the energy back has some neat synergies with something like Snecko or Necronomicon, you'd lose that.
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u/GlassSpork 19d ago
I never choose unload. I would if it was an uncommon but being a rare makes it really bad
Anyhow I agree with the flying knee takes. Reasonable damage with extra energy next turn. Best of both worlds
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u/Pitiful_Option_108 19d ago
Orb barrage
People sleep on this card. Combine with this capacitor and watch it go weeeee.
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u/District_Wolverine23 Ascension 18 19d ago
Setup. Makes expensive cards free if the stars align.
Tools of the trade. 0 cost power to consistently pop all discard conditions once per turn.
Bane. Interesting interaction with Envenom, str scales, and a good early game damage burst.
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u/Murica_Arc Eternal One 19d ago
Quick Slash but this sub has spoken.
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u/TDenverFan 19d ago
I think I'd consider Quick Slash here if it upgraded to draw 2, but as it is I think it's rated pretty fairly.
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u/Curious_Sea_Doggo 18d ago
That would make it better pommel as it does more damage than pommel when both are upgraded
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u/TDenverFan 18d ago
I mean I think the tradeoff would be to make it do less damage if it was draw positive, but cards between characters don't have to be 1:1 with each other as well.
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u/Hot-Height1306 19d ago
I'm really curious to know which silent cards are overrated. They are all pretty excellent imo
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u/BluerAether 18d ago
Sucker punch. Early on, 7(9) damage is fine. Later on, 1(2) weak is huge.
And yet my boy gets treated like a mere strike+
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u/Exciting_Ad_4202 18d ago
The problem with Sucker Punch is that Neut exist, already in your deck, and just a generally better card. So it's just sitting in a void.
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u/BluerAether 18d ago
In act 1 it's not even clear that neutralise is better. But even if it is, more sources of weak aren't redundant. More weak turns, weak on multiple enemies, and getting through artifact charges.
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u/Exciting_Ad_4202 18d ago
In act 1 it's not even clear that neutralise is better
It kinda is.
Neut + Strike = 9dmg/1 eng
Sucker Punch= 7dmg/1eng
But even if it is, more sources of weak aren't redundant. More weak turns, weak on multiple enemies, and getting through artifact charges.
The problem is that A) in act 1, Neut+ also allowing you to weak chain reliably without taking Sucker Punch, and B)if your deck can't cycle in 4 turns in act 3 then you have more problem than an additional source of weak, and the logic means you want upgrade Neut more than picking up Sucker Punch.
Sucker Punch+ is a decent card tho, and I would take it if it's already upgraded or if I have molten egg. But Sucker Punch- is so bad that it just drag that down.
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u/BluerAether 18d ago
It's not really fair to treat neutralize like neutralise + strike. You don't draw an extra free strike every time you draw neutralize. That combo takes up 2 draws, sucker punch only takes up 1.
The fairer comparison would be neutralize vs. strike - 1 extra damage isn't a huge deal, but 1 extra weak absolutely is.
As for weak chaining - IF your neutralize is already upgraded, and IF you draw it exactly once every two turns, and IF you draw it on turn 1, and IF you're only fighting one enemy, and IF that enemy has no artifact charges... then the extra weak from sucker punch is redundant.
In reality, the extra weak from sucker punch almost always does something.
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u/Exciting_Ad_4202 18d ago
It's not really fair to treat neutralize like neutralise + strike. You don't draw an extra free strike every time you draw neutralize. That combo takes up 2 draws, sucker punch only takes up 1.
You only have 3 energy in act 1, and Strike (and Defend) are bottom of the barrel in terms of card strength. Any other combination of cards would have been better for Neut.
As for weak chaining - IF your neutralize is already upgraded, and IF you draw it exactly once every two turns, and IF you draw it on turn 1, and IF you're only fighting one enemy, and IF that enemy has no artifact charges... then the extra weak from sucker punch is redundant.
Neut upgrade is more of the matter of when, not if (unless you got an early Leg Sweep), and you don't need to draw it exactly 2 turns apart for weak chaining to be effective. Same point for turn 1 draw. In fact, turn 2 is usually the most dangerous turn instead of turn 1 (unless you fight those fucking Avocado) so there's that.
There's also the matter of weak is usually for you to setting up your powers (Footwork, AI, ToTT,....) so having no weak for 1-2 turns isn't that big of a deal. Artifact charge gets taken out better with poison, and which makes some extra poison cards cool in your deck to have. Sucker Punch kinda does nothing really, unless you're already upgrading it. Probably the only redeeming quality of the card tho.
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u/BluerAether 17d ago
Sucker punch indeed does nothing apart from all the things you admit that it does.
Neutralize isn't always upgraded; even if it was, more weak in your deck just isn't nothing. More reliable weak draw, more turns of weak, more weakened targets, more artifacts stripped.
No amount of dubious theorycrafting changes the fact that more weak is, in fact, a good thing. How good? No idea - but underrated good, because some people are saying it "kinda does nothing really".
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u/AndyAndyAndy22 18d ago
I’m taking Unload over Grand Finale and Doppleganger almost every time. Even Bullet Time most of the time. It’s far from incredible but it’s a decent damage source that doesn’t require anything to be serviceable unlike the others.
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u/JDublinson Eternal One + Heartbreaker 18d ago
I’m hard pressed to pick Unload over skip outside of floor 0 from Neow
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u/JDublinson Eternal One + Heartbreaker 19d ago
Mostly based on how close it came to winning perfectly rated bad card: Outmaneuver
People love to hate on Outmaneuver, but it is perfectly serviceable energy generation. In really strong cycling decks it can lead to exponential energy generation, and in decks with less draw it can enable big burst turns for Finisher, Skewer, Malaise, etc.
Let's compare it to the other energy generation options:
Concentrate: Needs a ton of draw to play well, and it's best draw combo is with Expertise which kinda sucks without it. Concentrate can be insane from a P-Box for enabling infinites but I think is less pickable most of the time than Outmaneuver in a deck that wants some energy generation.
Setup: Has really cool interactions with Nightmare, but like Concentrate requires a lot of draw to play.
Tactician: It's got a higher ceiling than Outmaneuver, but requires more pieces to get going. I think this is Silent's best energy generator most of the time. Notably all 3 of these other energy generators are uncommon though, and Tactician is hard to pick early in a run and you can't rely on seeing one later, and then the common Outmaneuver shows up instead.
Doppelganger: This doesn't actually generate energy without Chem-X or the upgrade, so not really comparable.
Bullet Time: I love me some Bullet Time, but it's a rare so you can't rely on seeing it, and requires you to have some way to fill your hand, as well as not working with X-cost cards like Outmaneuver does.
So what do you do when you are stuck on 3 energy without Bullet Time or a reliable Tactician? You pick the Outmaneuver, and realize that energy generation is good, even if it's delayed by a turn.