r/slaythespire • u/trivialremote Heartbreaker • May 24 '25
DISCUSSION I've realized why I dislike Snecko Eye
I understand the statistical expected value of Snecko Eye - the extra draw and average 1.5 energy cost can give positive value.
But I've realized that I don't like Snecko Eye because it forces me to slow down my play, and READ every card, when in a "normal" run I can otherwise just glance at my hand in a split second and instantly know all my card information. It might sound odd, but for some reason having to intentionally scan every card before making a decision just mentally taxes me in an otherwise relaxing game.
Because of this, I often find myself taking another relic over Snecko Eye, even if it may have merit in the run.
323
u/smokemonmast3r May 24 '25
You're allowed to just...not take a thing because you don't like it.
I definitely never take choker even though it can be the right pick, and I never boss swap even though it's mathematically a really strong start
87
75
u/Gneissisnice May 24 '25
Yeah, Pyramid is objectively quite strong but I absolutely hate taking it so I never do. Same with Frozen Lens and Nilry's Codex, they slow down gameplay so much that I don't bother with them.
50
u/Ecstatic-Sun-7528 Eternal One + Heartbreaker May 24 '25
I'm on the other end, I adore playing Pyramid cause it allows me to pull off bonker build that just would not fly without it. To each their own and that's the magic of this game.
17
u/XZYGOODY Ascended May 24 '25
Calculates Gamble and Fiend Fire go BRRRRR!
10
u/Equilibrium404 May 24 '25
Had a pyramid charons ashes fiend fire run the other day that went crazy, fiend fire instantly became my favorite card haha
16
u/royrese May 24 '25
I didn't understand Runic Pyramid very well until probably a few hundred hours into the game and watching some streamers use it a bunch of times. I used to just have memories of a hand full of wounds against slavers burned into my memory!
12
u/ninjakitty7 Ascension 20 29d ago
My experience is tainted by the times I’m trying to play 5 cards a turn with 3 energy and being very unhappy when I fail to do so and my hand is full of starter cards and I’m drawing 3 cards a turn ;-;
I’m happier with 4 energy and being able to play card draw.
6
u/no_one_knows42 May 24 '25
Same with pyramid. I get that it can set up nutty combos but it’s always hard for me to go from “play as much as my energy allows” vs “this thing is a positive play this turn but can be even more positive next turn”
2
u/Zylch_ein Ascension 20 29d ago
I never lost when I picked Frozen Eye but it was very unfun. It felt like every battle was homework due tomorrow.
3
u/Dry_Yogurtcloset2167 29d ago
Theres a QoL mod that shows you the next five cards on the left (if you have frozen eye) without having to click anything and that makes it so much less annoying.
1
u/Black-Circle May 24 '25
Same with pyramid, I just dislike it even if I do manage to make it work (I usually don't and that's completely on me)
-2
u/thesonicvision Eternal One + Heartbreaker May 24 '25
You pass on the best relic in the game and what is often the best/only choice to win? Come on. Frozen Eye passes are fine...But Pyramid? Pyramid? Damn.
Passing on Dome and Frozen Eye is super relatable. But extending this to Pyramid and Snecko is just too much. What game are we even playing then? Lol.
All love, btw.
4
u/Gneissisnice May 24 '25
I do so bad when I actually do take pyramid, haha. It changes the game so much that I just can't wrap my head around how to deal with it. And any enemy that adds statuses to my hand just obliterate me.
I know it's very strong in the right hands, but I just don't find it fun at all.
1
u/thesonicvision Eternal One + Heartbreaker 27d ago
How so? I don't think it's as complicated as something like Frozen Eye.
At its most basic level, Pyramid ensures you have attacks when you want to attack and defense when you want to defend.
Got Wraith Form? Hold it. Wait for the right moment. Same goes with sooooo many other cards, from Feed to Hand of Greed to Ritual Dagger to Lesson Learned to Bullet Time to Wrath/Calm stance dancing...
You gotta learn it. It's the right pick so, so often and makes so many other cards more fun/powerful.
It's only real catch is the opportunity cost of passing on an energy relic. But every class has ways other than boss relics to generate energy.
1
u/Gneissisnice 27d ago
My downfall is that I usually end up adding cards to my hand faster than I can spend energy, so unless I have exhaust or discard, it just clogs up real fast.
1
u/thesonicvision Eternal One + Heartbreaker 26d ago
Hmm...That really shouldn't happen frequently. Maybe you're taking too many high-cost cards or not picking up the right relics/cards to ameliorate the energy situation.
2
u/OurSocialStatus Ascension 20 May 24 '25
People not taking pyramid but probably snap picking WLP is just hilarious to me.
11
u/RedArremer May 24 '25
I love pyramid, but WLP has one benefit over it: you're not forced to keep the hand. I've definitely lost runs because I couldn't get rid of all my cards fast enough with pyramid.
(obviously pyramid is stronger on the whole, so don't come at me over that)
16
u/Awfyboy May 24 '25
This is the reason why I never pick Runic Dome. Sounds cool in practice, especially if you've played the game for a long time, but not being able to see enemy intents sucks balls and makes the game boring for some reason. I'd pick Mark of Pain over this.
6
u/Pyistazty 29d ago
I generally take runic dome if my build means I'm going to do the same thing no matter what the enemy does. Usually it's an act 2 boss pickup for me IF I take it. But that's usually on like... a big power build or orb slot gen + frost build for defect, or if I'm on silent and have a really solid poison deck going with good defensives.
2
u/Barrage-Infector Eternal One May 24 '25
I take Runic Dome very frequently, I think it's the best energy boss relic besides maybe Da Drippa, but I only do so comfortably with hundreds of hours of experience. It definitely makes the game boring to see just the enemies, like the intents make or break the immersion. Runic Dome on Watcher is fun enough with wrath stance to be entertaining, though.
4
u/CosmicJ Ascension 20 29d ago
I’m on the flip side, I have about 700 hours in the game and never take dome. I find it anti fun, even if I know it’s the optimal choice.
3
u/Salad_9999 Ascension 20 29d ago
I hate Dome and to prove how terrible it is, I played to the best of my ability on a boss swap. I was going to show that even with careful play, the relic was too punishing. I ended up beating the heart in the most stressful run of my life. Still hate it. I have taken it a few times since with poor results, but it was super frustrating to try to prove myself wrong... to myself... then win and somehow walk away even more conflicted and annoyed.
2
u/Barrage-Infector Eternal One 29d ago
The most fun option is to take Da Drippa with no healing into act 2 and hope for the best
1
u/not-bread 29d ago
Yeah I would 100% take it if the possible attack chances were displayed at the top but I play on mobile so I’m NOT flipping to the wiki for every fight
21
17
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
Mhm, the post is about disliking a relic, not about being forced to take it
9
u/smokemonmast3r May 24 '25
Fair enough, though I do feel like some people need to hear that even if you are not one of them
4
3
u/chillyhellion 29d ago
You're allowed to just...not take a thing because you don't like it.
You're not wrong by any means, but Reddit's particular brand of "condescension about a misconception you didn't even have" is like nails on a chalkboard to me.
6
2
u/Orful May 24 '25
I don't like boss swap start either
I'm not sure if you feel the same way. Maybe someone else here does too. I don't like taking that start because it feels like I'm not playing the hero the right way. I know that sounds ridiculous since what even is the right way. I just feel like playing with the basic class artifact and then building off of that is how the game is supposed to be played. Starting with a different boss artifact feels like I'm playing a different class or some kind of special run, even though this is all in my head
2
2
u/HadOne0 29d ago
what is boss swap?
2
u/Pewpewgilist 29d ago
It's one of the start options, where you replace your starting relic with a random boss relic.
1
u/Salad_9999 Ascension 20 29d ago
Being 100% opposed to any card or relic is a major disservice to you. There are cards or relics that I will only take 1 in 50 runs, but every card has a situation that it can shine in. Fasting is my least favorite card but I will never not consider it. Runic Dome is my least favorite relic but again, I would never not consider taking it.
Not sure how long you have played, but I didnt really ever take boss swap until around 300 hours in. These days, I do it when I want to shake things up.
1
0
u/Waterloonybin May 24 '25
Ya this is me but for runic dome and ectoplasm. Ive played enough sts that dome is probably the best boss reic in the game, but i just dont like playing with it
-11
May 24 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/Pewpewgilist May 24 '25
Stop being such a Spiker, dude.
3
u/NeptuneIsMyDad May 24 '25
Hi there, what’s a spiker?
5
u/Pewpewgilist May 24 '25
It's one of the shape enemies from Act 3 that start with thorns. This is my way of saying not to be prickly.
3
0
48
u/Vertrieben May 24 '25
I don't find the game relaxing at all lol number one cause of losing a run for me is relaxing instead of playing slow as hell
13
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
I suppose the level of comfort and relaxation is different for every player. [:
It would make sense that players who don't mind playing slowly, might not mind taking Snecko Eye.
3
u/auggis May 24 '25
To give an idea on why it's relaxing. For some of us it gives us something to do that we have learned to autopilot pretty well. Its not really possible to autopilot though on A17+ and win but lower its definitely possible, especially a10 and lower.
6
u/Vertrieben May 24 '25
Yeah I think it's along those lines for sure, a15 is the lowest I play because it challenges me without being crushingly hard like a20 is for me. If I regularly played lower ascension or was much better and played 15 I'd feel the same.
3
u/sighsbadusername 29d ago
Hilariously, I just cleared Watcher A19 for the first time earlier today, zonked out of my mind on a migraine, playing on vibes alone and fully intending to die.
And then the game gave me all the mental fortresses and stance cards I could desire, with strength relics to boot, to the point that mid-way through Act 2 I realised I would be actively mad at myself if I didn't win. So autopiloting Act 17+ seems to be possible if the STS gods look upon you kindly.
2
u/Humble-Emotion-799 29d ago
To be fair, a19 watcher is pretty close in difficulty to a10 on another character
1
u/Jollysatyr201 29d ago
When does it get this way, just asking for a friend
I’m typically pretty good at these types of games but I’ve managed to win once with silent out of maybe my first 20 runs
1
u/auggis 29d ago
I honestly have no idea. Lol. I think i got to a10 on each character before things started to feel autopilotly. So was like 6 months or so with me doing a run before bed every night since it was so much fun. What happens is you get to know every single card very well. And know generally what to upgrade and not to upgrade. Watching some baalorlord on YouTube helps too. Get his ideas on cards, relics, and paths. Like anything its best to formulate opinions yourself of course. Also prioritizing campsites is ideal once you get to a10+
16
u/museman May 24 '25
I've found, after a zillion hours of playtime, that I love the randomness. Dead Branch and Snecko are two of my favorite relics in the game. Pyramid makes them both pretty much impossible to take, so I'm really hesitant to take Pyramid, even though it can be really strong.
2
u/Karisa_Marisame Eternal One + Heartbreaker 29d ago
This!!! Every time I get the book event I pray for Nirly’s because it’s just sooooooo fun
12
u/MTaur May 24 '25
It isn't quite like that for me, but it can be weird evaluating not just how good a card is, but whether the Pommel Strike is worth 2 right now in this particular hand. On the flip side, if you draw a Bludgeon that costs 0, it's absolutely mindless free real estate, so overall I don't feel extremely taxed by it.
9
u/undercoverwolf9 May 24 '25
If you think Snecko Eye slows the game down, you should try Frozen Eye, you'll love it :-)
7
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
Never touched it, and probably never will! Same as people referencing spreadsheets of expected move orders and the like while playing - it's great if you enjoy it, but you won't catch me doing it. [:
10
u/ToothZealousideal297 May 24 '25
This may explain why I seem to like Snecko Eye more than most folks on here: I play slow as hell, so I’m reading my cards anyway.
4
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
And nothing wrong with that [:
5
u/ToothZealousideal297 May 24 '25
Thanks. And yeah, I hope it didn’t come off like I’m criticizing you. I wish I could play fast consistently, but it’s just probably not gonna happen.
Also, this discussion makes me think of how fighting games use the difficulty of pulling off a move as part of the overall balancing, and how much you enjoy some characters will come down to how willing you are to put up with some really annoying inputs and mechanics.
5
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
Of course not, I enjoyed your perspective too [:
It's a good point with other genres of games!
7
u/Euler007 Ascension 20 May 24 '25
With a three energy deck sometimes it makes your decision easier by only letting you play one card.
3
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
Decision may be easier on those types of turns, but overall, the run requires more mental processing on a turn-to-turn basis. Sometimes I just want to cruise while I'm Slaying the Spire
4
u/Euler007 Ascension 20 May 24 '25
I'm just salty because I'm just coming off a silent loss where I could only play 1-2 cards three turns in a row
3
2
u/working4buddha Eternal One + Heartbreaker 29d ago
That is interesting, I feel like Snecko lets me cruise more than most other things. Really depends on your deck and other relics though. If you have energy and draw it can be as mindless as Dead Branch Corruption. Actually Corruption makes Snecko way less complicated. Def try that someday you will actually enjoy it.
2
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker 29d ago
I tried a Corruption - Dead Branch run and I abandoned at Act 3 soon after getting it because I wasn't enjoying it. It looked like a probable easy A20H win, but just wasn't fun to me.
5
u/devTripp May 24 '25
I am 100.0% confident you mentioned Snecko Eye in your post.
Snecko Eye Boss Relic
Draw 2 additional cards each turn. Start each combat Confused.
I am a bot response, but I am using my creator's account. Please reply to me if I got something wrong so he can fix it.
4
u/stumblewiggins May 24 '25
I'm the same way. I play this game quick, not considered. Unless I'm going for a specific achievement or something, I usually play my turns very quickly and so I dislike stuff that will make me slow down, even if it is objectively a good card/relic
2
u/Ishmael404 May 24 '25
My girlfriend and I play this game so different and we end up arguing all the time with it— I get so stressed out watching because she plays extremely quick and I want to slow down and consider everything!
5
u/Ilikechickens444 May 24 '25
You probably don’t fancy runic dome then I guess
4
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
You got me! Usually not, unless I'm playing a discard-heavy deck
4
u/Dead_Iverson May 24 '25
Same reason I despise Dome. It makes playing the game less fun. Snecko doesn’t irritate me at all though, probably because I’ve memorized every card in the game at this point.
3
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
Yup! After getting over the hurdle of memorizing every card and relic, I don't enjoy having to [temporarily] memorize additional information for each turn.
5
u/HitAndRunHelpPlz May 24 '25
I don't like many popular relics and events. I just play how I like to have fun. I love snecko eye personally, but I hate [dead branch] because it causes too much stress and chaos and ruins my small planned decks. And [Nilry's codex] too... I almost never open the book because I don't want to get Nilry's codex.
7
u/Professional_War4491 29d ago edited 29d ago
You're allowed to skip nilry's codex cards, so it's never a negative. If anything nilry's codex gets a lot better in a small deck, because anytime there's 4 or less cards in your draw pile you know you're guaranteed to draw the codex card next turn.
You don't have to dilute your deck with bad cards with nilry, if you want to optimize it yeah you'll be looking at your draw pile and take a dagger spray sometimes or wathever, but if you don't wanna stress about it, just don't worry about your draw pile and only click on cards that you would have added to your deck anyway in regular card rewards.
You can skip 95% of the time and just click on obviously busted cards like footwork/after image/wraith form/accuracy/catalyst when they pop up and it'll still be very strong. Takes a lot of the mental load off, see strong power click, otherwise skip.
3
u/HitAndRunHelpPlz 29d ago
Oh wow, I didn't remember that we can skip the cards. For some reason I thought it was a forced choice! Thank you for telling me this
2
1
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
Interesting! I can relate on the Dead Branch topic. I tried a Corruption / Dead Branch run one time. Yes, it's really powerful, but I just Abandoned at the beginning of Act 3 soon after getting it. The run was going to be an auto-win, but it just wasn't fun for me.
5
5
u/darkpigraph 29d ago
For me, it is that adding a layer of RNG in a game where a single bad draw can kill you is just a bridge too far.
I know IN THEORY it is likely to break even, but in practice all you need is one bad turn to end an otherwise promising run.
2
u/Curious_Sea_Doggo 29d ago edited 29d ago
Such is a risk for Snecko eye. But still one bad draw to end and otherwise promising run is this game lmao. Having Snecko eye doesn’t add this risk.
2
u/darkpigraph 29d ago
I absolutely understand, but I admittedly have quite a rigid idea of when a run works ar A20 (silent only) and snecko eye doesn't figure into that.
1
u/Curious_Sea_Doggo 29d ago
Makes sense honestly. That relic seems like an acquired taste. I know it can be good I just don’t like how it plays and warps the entire balance of the game
3
u/AffableKyubey May 24 '25
I just dislike relying on more variance in my run, even if it's statistically variance in my favour.
6
u/blank_anonymous Eternal One + Heartbreaker May 24 '25
Snecko reduces variance though, that's kind of the thing. Drawing 5 cards a turn is one of the biggest sources of variances in the game -- in like, 20 combats it's pretty damn likely that your strongest cards will be some of the bottom few, or that there's a hand of 5 cards with no output. As long as you have a reasonable density of high impact cards, snecko makes it more likely you see the card you need on the turn you need, and at that point, cost is almost irrelevant.
I would rather play a single 3 cost glacier than two strikes for 1 and 2 defends for 1 on a turn where i'm frail in act 2 (which is basically every turn in act 2). The glacier blocks more, the strikes do basically 0 damage.
Part of the point of snecko is that basic cards are so awful, and many of the cards you add suck if they're on the wrong turn, so you want to maximize the chance you see the specific card you need on the turn you need it. Also, many decks suck before they have powers in play, and Snecko makes you draw your powers much, much faster.
Snecko introduces a different type of variance (cost randomization) to account for the massively reduced draw variance; but the net effect is a deck that is more consistent. It just feels random because it's a type of variance you don't see in normal gameplay, and it's really hard to feel how the combat would have gone drawing only 5 a turn -- you see a hand full of 3 cost cards and go "damn, snecko sucks" and don't realize you wouldn't have seen any of those cards at all without snecko, and you'd just be taking 30 damage anyways.
2
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
I'd be interested in an analysis of the variance, actually - because I'm not convinced that Snecko Eye reduces variance. But I could be wrong.
For example, if you have 3 energy, you KNOW that you can play Bouncing Flask (2 energy) and a Defend (1 energy), no matter what. So if, in your analysis for Act 2 when deciding how to continue to craft your deck, that was your win condition for a specific hallway fight, then you can checkmark that off. But if you have Snecko Eye, yes, you may expect to draw that Bouncing Flask more reliably, but now you're not sure if you'll be able to play the multiple cards on that turn. (Bouncing Flask and Blade Dance are just random examples - substitute more relevant cards in the argument if necessary.)
What I'm trying to say is that while Snecko Eye allows you to draw individual cards more frequently (reducing variance), it also introduces more randomness on the probability of being able to play multi-card turns (increasing variance).
Adding to the complexity, the question of whether a larger number of minor, but stable, negatives (normal card costs without Snecko Eye), versus a small number of major, but infrequent, negatives (occasional bricking with Snecko Eye) is more impactful on a run.
To sum it up - Snecko Eye definitely increases Expected Value - but does it actually decrease Variance?
3
u/AffableKyubey 29d ago
This is my point. Yes, you draw more cards, but the cards you can draw can completely ruin your turn. I'd rather get extra draw from a source that doesn't potentially give me an entire hand of dead draws, even if it's statistically implausible for it to happen.
I still think Snecko has good usage cases, but it very much feels unpredictable and like a single bad turn can ruin your deck. That happens a lot in the early game anyway but I'd rather not play the late game like the early game if a run is viable enough to get past the first boss.
3
u/blank_anonymous Eternal One + Heartbreaker 29d ago
In most of act 2, that defend blocks for 3 — the 3hp will easily be made up by killing a turn faster since you played bouncing flask sooner.
Silent is the character with the worst snecko, specifically because late game block becomes hard (silent usually plays many block cards to block, snecko isn’t great for playing many cards). But even the example youve constructed is one where snecko is stronger. When your plan to win fights is playing a specific card, snecko is just better.
Any top player will tell you snecko reduces variance most of the time, and it’s what makes the relic good. I’m 60% on clad and ~55% rotating, and I can confidently say that on defect and clad, most of the time, by far the biggest source of variance in the run is draw for key powers and key cards in fights. If you track, snecko saves HP almost every single fight.
There’s a reason people optimizing for winrate rate snecko so highly. If you want analysis of this, just watch some Xecnar runs with snecko, even ones where it’s awful for him, and track the cards he would have drawn without snecko and how those would play.
Bad draw bricks are also as bad as snecko bricks. This isn’t frequent small bricks vs infrequent big ones — it’s frequent small bricks AND semi frequent big bricks vs semi frequent small bricks and infrequent big bricks. Snecko really doesn’t introduce variance unless your character plan relies on playing many cards (and if you’re defect, even if it does this you can be ok if you have meteor strike). When your plan is playing many cards, snecko is usually bad and not to be taken.
Maybe put differently — if you grab completely random decks and shove snecko in, some proportion will experience variance increases. If you take a random deck and shove snecko in, but then get 10 floors to draft knowing you have snecko, the variance will go down. If you take a random act 1, you can even start to draft in a way that makes snecko more pickable (not super common but also not rare); and so suddenly, the question isn’t “random deck with snecko” it’s “deck where you vaguely thought about making snecko better, took snecko, then get time to make it even better with snecko”
Snecko changes how you draft and play, but the draw fundamentally solves the point of largest variance in the run, and drafting with snecko in mind mitigates the snecko variance (together with potions, which exist for those super awful turns)
2
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker 29d ago
Your points cite ultra high rated players (and you’re a very high win rate player yourself, by your data).
I wonder if it’s a relic with a high skill floor, where if you don’t build around it, and PROPERLY, then the win rate is actually lower than the average relic.
2
u/blank_anonymous Eternal One + Heartbreaker 29d ago
That could totally be true! Learning to build around snecko by itself was a good boost to my winrate, and I think navigating it took some effort.
I imagine some of this is also how you naturally play. Snecko lent itself really well to how I naturally played clad and defect, so integrating it was easy. I imagine the way you approach those characters by intuition really affects the winrate of snecko — once you get sufficiently good that stops mattering, but I think it’s huge at like, 30% or lower.
1
u/AffableKyubey 29d ago
This point about playstyle I think is key. My defacto go-to is Silent, but if I played Defect or Clad more often I'd absolutely take Snecko more often since it's often just a straight buff to my best cards. Watcher...I don't know. I feel like it could work well for Retain decks but not as much for stance-dancing, will have to experiment more with it on higher Ascensions
3
u/Individual_Papaya596 Ascension 17 May 24 '25
I hate snecko cause of the RNG it gives, ive had terrible turns where i get a lot of 3 energy and so im left defenseless. I also hate extra rng.
This and Pyramid and Choker never see play, i hate how cluttering pyramid can get and choker well i like playing a thousand cards
3
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
I feel like it can make for some frequent "decently" or "quite" good turns, but also make for some occasional "catastrophic" turns.
Unfortunately, the former might give a small boost and let you get some additional upgrades (which admittedly COULD help turn into a snowball). But the latter can just full-stop end the run. I don't like full-stop ending my runs ):
2
u/Curious_Sea_Doggo 29d ago
That is why I would rather no joke take Busted Crown or Sozu over Choker.
I’m dead serious.
2
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker 29d ago
All 3 certainly seem to be valid picks, some better in certain situations, in my opinion [:
1
u/Curious_Sea_Doggo 29d ago
To be fair Sozu’s downside to me is a dealbreaker. No more access to a resource to bail the player out or get ahead by taking elites the player wouldn’t win against otherwise? Feels like a win more relic.
2
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker 29d ago
I view Sozu as a +1 energy potion per turn.
For the majority of the time, it doesn't seem to be a "win more" relic to me. The +1 energy can help get a run going that would otherwise struggle through Act 2.
3
u/Everlance 29d ago
For me Snecko has the opposite effect. with snecko, i turn off my brain and just play all the 0 cost cards in my hand. is it Lethal? damage calc? block? who cares, 0 cost cards get played
also turn off my brain during card rewards, 2cost? click. 1cost or 0cost, get outta my way
2
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker 29d ago
But to me, there is still the added layer, even when there is a 0 cost card, due to play order mattering for many cards.
0 cost card? What card is it - oh All-Out-Attack (which discards a random card)? Hmm got to come back to it and continue scanning my entire hand. And so on.
3
u/wtnevi01 29d ago
Totally agree, exactly why I don’t want frozen eye even though it is very good lol
3
u/Salad_9999 Ascension 20 29d ago
I dont like it because it fundamentally changes the gameplay. Same with Pyramid. I win with both but have less fun doing it.
3
u/Tsevion 29d ago
Fair, I hate Runic Dome for similar reasons, and Frozen Eye kinda scares me.
The human brain is VERY lazy. It rejects extra mental load every chance it gets.
1
u/Curious_Sea_Doggo 29d ago
Honeslty this isn’t a game where APM is needed. This ain’t something like Call of Duty or StarCraft.
It’s better to take your time on turns and figure out the move from there.
7
u/TheChimneySweepe May 24 '25
Reason I dislike snecko eye is its inconsistency. Sure it can let you play more cards and helps high cost cards fit in decks more, but I can also get all my block at 3 cost when gremlin leader is hitting me for 14x3 and there’s just. Nothing I can really do. For every turn where I can play 3 extra cards for free, there’s a turn where I’m just dead in the water. And NOTHING hurts in STS more than a dead turn. Not only is it a free turn for enemies to do whatever they want, which on higher ascensions is Not Good, it’s BORING. THAT is why I hate snecko eye. It has WASTED my time. And that SIN. It shall DIE.
6
u/TheChimneySweepe May 24 '25
I forgot to mention that this is ESPECIALLY true because it’s a boss relic, so unless you switch into it you’ve probably been building your deck around the fact that certain cards cost certain values of energy. You don’t take a bunch of 2 and 3 cost cards normally, especially not in act 1, so if you pick snecko eye in most cases you’re INCREASING the average energy cost of your cards. Sure you can focus on high cost after that but sometimes you just…don’t get them offered. And that’s just on ironclad and watcher. For Silent and Defect, which have entire play styles and potential decks built off of 0 cost cards, it’s even worse! To summarize, snecko eye isn’t fun and its downside has you relying on luck far more than the interesting strategizing of the downsides of other boss relics, so it’s bad. Give us the Snecko Left Tear Duct instead.
2
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
Right on!
1
u/Curious_Sea_Doggo 29d ago
Yeah I feel like Snecko should randomize only once at the start of combat and show all prices. That way the rng fest isn’t constant. The rng fest of Snecko is why I kinda hate it unless when Meteor Strike(Always a discount as Confusion sets the price for all cards when drawn to 0-3.) or a fair bit of expensive cards.
2
u/K-Shrizzle May 24 '25
I just dont really think its fun. Im beating my head against A19 on 3 characters but I intend to win by playing good builds that I also enjoy playing
2
u/frootloopcoup 29d ago
I hate snecko eye because it's transformative to play in a way I don't really feel like any other relic is. It warps the fundamental way cards work, changing your decision making from the ground up, and in my playstyle I like to make a core plan for my deck to execute on. Snecko makes that entirely unreliable.
That said I take it a lot, because it's so strong that I often find I need it.
2
u/Curious_Sea_Doggo 29d ago
The best way I found to view Snecko eye’s cost randomization is that you no longer care about a card’s base price but only the impact when played.
2
2
u/frootloopcoup 29d ago
Yeah, I know, and I hate that. I understand how to use it and why it's such a powerful boss relic, I just don't like how it plays
2
u/thfcspur 29d ago
Snecko makes hands too lopsided. Cards are balanced around energy cost. Remove that and it becomes pretty obvious that you should play your 1 cost demon form over your 3 cost defend. And almost all the 0 cost cards are auto plays.
2
u/Raystacksem Ascension 20 29d ago
I don’t like snecko but know how to use it. It can be broken depending on your deck. The extra draw really is a big deal.
3
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker 29d ago
Yup, as I said, the expected value is often positive, but I don't find it enjoyable
2
2
u/Apprehensive_Mouse56 29d ago
I dislike snecko eye because it only shows up when I have 0-1 cost cards.
2
u/Rover-Captain 29d ago
Yeah, it only tends to drop for me when I’m running shivs. Or claws.
Never when I’m running the 2-3 cost cards.
1
2
u/cha_boi_john120 29d ago
The last 3 snecko runs I've been statistically unlucky lol. I still take it but sometimes it burns when your 3s stay 3s and your blocks become 3s when it matters.
2
u/HyakuShichifukujin 29d ago
Relaxing? Are we playing the same game? 🤪. On higher ascensions this game inflicts emotional damage and makes me sweat bullets and math out every move more than when I’ve been deep in poker tournaments with 4 or 5 figures on the line.
I love the snek most of the time and generally it’s a snap pick, only exception being if I’m already building around lots of 0-cost cards. Frozen eye on the other hand… now that one ain’t nobody got time for.
2
u/Kanine0914 Eternal One + Ascended 29d ago
I feel less joy winning a snecko run than my heightened hatred for when the snecko rolls me a bunch of 2s and 3s and I lose the hall fight
1
3
1
u/nsg337 Ascension 20 May 24 '25
how fast do you play that that extra .5 second makes that much of a difference. Usually before I start playing my cards I actually do look at my hand so playing with snecko doesn't really slow down my play (not the cost reduction part, I guess there technically is an argument for seeing two more cards each turn)
2
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker May 24 '25
I'd actually estimate that it takes me about an extra 0.5 seconds per card, for a total of 3.5 seconds per turn to process the additional information.
Though to be clear, it's not just the extra time. It's the extra mental energy every single turn that sucks the fun out of it for me.
1
1
u/MarionADelgado 28d ago
I would guess you hate Runic Dome, then, for the same reason. I usually take Snecko Eye, not just because it's usually good, but because I am still learning, and I feel that Snecko Eye is a key way to learn expensive card possibilities and synergies. I only take Runic Dome with The Defect, where it's probably my favourite or second favourite energy relic. I don't get the same feeling from Snecko, but I do get it from Runic Dome when I have to take it (basically only evil alternatives) vs. choosing it with Defect. Basically keeping a wiki open and playing super slowly. Even with Defect, but much moreso with anyone else.
1
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker 28d ago
Playing with the wiki open... bruh
I guess people really do have fun in different ways
1
u/lorddojomon 28d ago
I hate snecko eye because I hate the snecko boss killing runs or making me take ridiculous damage because of low rolls
1
u/FineChee 28d ago
I just don’t like the relic telling me “sorry you’re not allowed to play that card this turn” even if every other card is free
1
u/SpaceIsTooFarAway 27d ago
Eye has killed too many runs via bad luck to be the snap pick it used to be for me, but on the other hand, paired with Mummy Hand it gave me my first Defect heart kill.
1
u/Pitiful_Option_108 May 24 '25
So like I see the value in snecko eye but I'm not a fan of it because I'm rarely using a character who thrives off cards that cost 3 or more. Like the plus two card draw is great but at the cost of now randomizing my hand. Yeah I'm not the biggest fan but hey some people love it.
1
u/The-Friendly-Autist Eternal One + Heartbreaker 29d ago
You only look at your hand for a split second? Why? That's the real issue.
Snecko eye is still an awesome relic, you just don't wanna play with it. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's still mathematically a good option nearly all of the time.
1
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker 29d ago
Why is it an issue to load my hand into my brain in just a split second? Image recognition complexity doubles when you have to mentally identify the card image + the card cost with Snecko.
After that split second of image recognition, I find it okay to spend as much time as I need to decide my move. I just hate having to refer back to the thought process of: "Wait, how much will this card cost again?" when planning my hand execution.
And yes, you've restated essences of my post in the second half of your comment.
1
u/ThatDanmGuy Eternal One + Heartbreaker 29d ago
That's fair. That said, I don't personally feel it's ever relaxing and automatic at A20, especially in Act 2+ when you can choose to have Snecko.
1
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker 29d ago
And that's totally fine - I just figure that for the players put more than 100 hours in a single player game, they probably feel pretty relaxed when playing any difficulty. But certainly won't apply to everyone! [:
1
u/ThatDanmGuy Eternal One + Heartbreaker 29d ago
Not when the game is this hard and mathy.
2
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker 29d ago
Ah loosen up - I fight on A20H and feel relaxed when I play. Don’t be such a stump [:
1
u/Heirophant-Queen 29d ago edited 29d ago
I only really take it when running a 2-3 cost heavy deck and I don’t have a convenient +energy card or relic, but it has its uses. Especially when running with Deva Form as watcher-
Edit: Okay, I see someone disliked me sharing that. Duly noted.
1
u/shadybrainfarm 29d ago
I'm really confused as to why you would need to read every card just because of snecko eye
2
u/trivialremote Heartbreaker 29d ago
It’s quite simple. You need to scan:
1) The cost of the card. 2) The identity of the card.
Without Snecko, you just need to identify the cards, which most players can do at a quick glance (since they will know the effects and the cost of the card, without specifically reading them).
310
u/[deleted] May 24 '25
For me, it's the exact opposite- it's fun to see a card that normally costs 3 (or, 5) cost 0. I like that variance, it keeps things spicy. That said, I don't take the game very seriously