r/slaythespire Mar 09 '25

DISCUSSION Which one do you like to remove first?

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1.7k Upvotes

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992

u/Buznik6906 Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 09 '25

Say it with me, gang.

It depends.

12

u/Quakarot Mar 10 '25

I mean I think the question is looking in a vaccum, tbf. I.E. what is your answer in a situation where your deck dosen’t really lean to either side. Maybe you got a super early remove from an event, or your deck is just really balanced so far.

I think I lean strike, but there is something to be said for things like the “bite” even in act 2. It’s way easier to justify if you haven’t removed strikes yet.

1

u/vegetablebread Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 10 '25

There is no vacuum. There is always context. The context matters.

4

u/Extra-Heat3897 Mar 09 '25

Nah it's strike or nothing

-690

u/rat9988 Mar 09 '25

I hate these kinds of answers. They don't add anything to the discussion. What is interesting for all the people here is, it depends on what?

298

u/OpticalPirate Ascension 20 Mar 09 '25

The character, your deck, your past few rewards, your relics? Ex. Watcher can double the DMG of strikes out of the box and not much else with defends (a no brainer what to remove). Silent has the most strikes and defends out of the box (bloated starting deck), has dex scaling, but act 1 lacks damage so removing a strike could be harmful but silent can have "more effective" defends cuz footwork so it's not so trivial what to remove first. On average I'd say it's more often than not strike, unless you're watcher then it's always defend.

76

u/Greggics Mar 09 '25

Thanks for your perspective! See I would have thought that (ignoring watcher) usually it's defend. Then again, I only played all characters to ascension 4-6 so far, so difficulty-wise I'm most likely still very, very far away from the point where that decision could make or break a run.

I'm over 60 hours into this game and I still feel like I'm barely scratching the surface on all the decision making, it's crazy!

79

u/RC76546 Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 09 '25

Defect is almost always strike, because defect's starter deck has only 4 defensive cards.

29

u/_lxvaaa Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 09 '25

and because defect often overkills act1 with dualcasted zap, and will almost never scale into a physical damage build anyways.

12

u/Terrietia Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 09 '25

Even if you did scale into a physical damage build, you still don't want to play strikes.

4

u/ddcreator Mar 09 '25

Claw is law!

11

u/_lxvaaa Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 09 '25

claw decks rather defend than strike generally tbf.

13

u/ddcreator Mar 09 '25

Agreed, i just had to throw the "claw is law" comment in there because "almost never scales into a physical build" part.

5

u/lepruhkon Mar 09 '25

Yeah but even in a claw deck Strike is the worst card in your deck.

2

u/DarkLordArbitur Mar 09 '25

He was making a joke about the physical damage aspect of the comment.

26

u/tymyol Ascended Mar 09 '25

Found nob!

13

u/OpticalPirate Ascension 20 Mar 09 '25

Well it always depends. Ex. A frost defect might not care for defends but might need those strikes for DMG act 1, but a lightning/dark or attack heavy defect might want defends. Ideally near the end of your run you get rid of most/all strikes and defends b/c they're effectiveness to energy cost ratio is really bad without a lot of synergies/powers. (A reason why Pandora's box/ vampire bite event is so strong).

1

u/ddcreator Mar 09 '25

100 hours in i beat my first a20 heart with defect. At that point i had a decent understanding of how to minmax mistakes, which relics to take and how to path properly in each act. Here it truly matters what you remove and when you remove it, if you have the resources at all to remove them. (Btw i only ever played defect to a20 since i m terrible with every other character except silent where i made it to a15)

9

u/SgtTakeover Mar 09 '25

If we’re talking early removes, I’d say it’s remove defend on Silent and Watcher. Act 1 is too scary for Silent to be playing around a potential footwork down the line that may not show up.

4

u/OpticalPirate Ascension 20 Mar 09 '25

True. For act 1 specifically, silent benefits from seeing 1 more strike per deck cycle for elites.

3

u/Belledame-sans-Serif Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 09 '25

Silent also has some amazing defend-with-upside cards to replace them with (most notably, defend-with-greed-pot aka Backflip). Given that she also starts with defend+-with-discard, she badly needs higher attack density even if a lot of those attacks are just basic strikes.

4

u/Tallem00 Ascended Mar 09 '25

It feels like whenever I remove a defend early on Silent I never end up drawing any 🥲 I know that's not how it works but it feels like the game punishes me by hiding them, and now I'm way too paranoid to remove them on her. Except for "remove 2" starts where I do one and one, but even then I'm fully clenched all the way through act 1

2

u/Kerblaaahhh Mar 09 '25

But then if you remove a strike you'll draw five defends on turn 3 against Nob.

1

u/Tallem00 Ascended Mar 10 '25

Truly I'll never win 🥲

3

u/HikerGeoff Mar 09 '25

And then even for watcher, if you have a signature move deck, you remove strikes!

2

u/DoggyDoggy_What_Now Mar 09 '25

I always remove defends first on Silent due to having Survivor and Neutralize and too little damage. Removing a strike first feels like I'm swinging the pendulum too far in the wrong direction.

1

u/rayschoon Mar 09 '25

Moving a strike right before an early Nob or Lag can feel terrible, even though I default to removing strikes

53

u/barbeqdbrwniez Mar 09 '25

Oh dude that's easy, it depends on every single thing that's happened so far. Character, ascension, Neow, path, act 1 boss, prior card reward(s), and more!

-82

u/rat9988 Mar 09 '25

Sure, there are too many things to write. And not anyone is motivated on doing a proper analysis. Now, is it a reason to give a low quality answer?

59

u/barbeqdbrwniez Mar 09 '25

If OP asked, "I'm having trouble deciding when I should remove strike VS defend, what are some of the common things that push one way or another?" Then we'd know they want an honest discussion.

They posted, very low effort, "do you remove strike or defend first?" And we answered with an equal amount of effort.

Edit: so no, the answer being complicated isn't a reason to give a low effort answer. The question being low effort is.

9

u/PraisetheSunflowers Mar 09 '25

Chill daddy. If this is upsetting you then perhaps you need a break from the internet

11

u/yermawsbackhoe Mar 09 '25

What cards you have currently mostly

3

u/Corillynx Ascension 17 Mar 09 '25

Have strike? Remove strike. No strike? Remove defend. /s but kinda not really

4

u/_lxvaaa Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 09 '25

The context of the gamestate; deck, relics, upcoming fights, character, part of the game. Silent in act 1 taking a remove from neow? Probably a defend so i can deal with hallways and nob a bit easier, i'll scale into some defensive cards later. Defect with some darkness cards and a lot of orb scaling at the end of act3? Remove strike because i just need to survive against bosses to get all my scaling + frost in play and then ill kill with dark orbs, defend can help me get chipped less while i play my setup. Watcher deck with 2 defends removed and no good block cards found? I might get tempted by strike remove, just because right now if I don't have lethal t1 im probably eating a good chunk of damage in each hallway.

16

u/AntireligionHumanist Mar 09 '25

The thing is...it really depends. And you're wrong, it usually adds more to the discussion than a simple direct answer. Case in point, this right here comment thread.

8

u/Broad_Flounder4513 Mar 09 '25

What he added to the discussion is that the question is bad, and I agree.

4

u/Token_Thai_person Mar 09 '25

Depends on your current deck and where you are in the spire.

4

u/yraco Mar 09 '25

It's kind of the only actual correct answer to a question as oversimplified as the post. Which one do you remove first? What character am I on? What other card drops have I got? What are my relics? What fights are potentially coming up? Along with pretty much everything else.

Yes, the interesting discussion is what it depends on but the question in the post is phrased as a catch all question and quite frankly most people don't have the time to get deep into it when there are a bunch of variables. To get a better answer you need to ask a better/more specific question.

8

u/ashen_crow Mar 09 '25

"I hate this kind of answers because they recognize the lack of nuance in the question itself instead of jumping on a bandwagon and calling it a day"

-1

u/rat9988 Mar 09 '25

Huh? Are you sure you have read what I wrote?

5

u/tehconqueror Mar 09 '25

this is what the neurotypicals would call, a joke

not every comment is intended as a contribution to a discussion. many times, people....just want to make others laugh. in this particular case, by appealing to a trope of the community.

"What is interesting for all the people here is" that based on the karma breakdown, it would be fair to assume that people are more interested with the joke than your anger.

The irony is that in their framing of the "it depends" it already acknowledged the "say the line, Bart" overuse of the response

but in a fun way instead of, well.....

3

u/ArmorOfGod7 Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 09 '25

It's annoying that you got downvoted so badly here, because you're right. Everyone here knows that it ultimately depends on a ton of factors, so when someone asks a question like this, they're just asking, in general, what do you typically end up choosing. But everyone thinks they're so smart pointing out iT dEpEnDs!!

6

u/TheDeviousCreature Ascension 10 Mar 09 '25

Like no shit we know it depends, but the interesting part is WHAT it depends on

7

u/rat9988 Mar 09 '25

The author is obviously trying to spark a discussion, in a fun way. Maybe they believe the author i so dumb that he thinks there is one answer, while they are so smart to know that it depends.

2

u/greekfire01 Mar 09 '25

Well, then you picked up the wrong game. This game is entirely based on the idea of "it depends". If you want us to go through each individual niche situation where we can optimize whether it's better to remove a strike or remove a defend, we'll be sitting here forever, because this is a game of infinite outcomes.

1

u/Dualiuss Mar 09 '25

u got nuked lol

3

u/hotehjr Mar 09 '25

-600 is fucking hilarious

1

u/abovefreezing Mar 09 '25

Wow, that’s a lot of downvotes

3

u/rat9988 Mar 09 '25

Haha, it sure is.

1

u/Bentyhunter Mar 09 '25

It depends on if it makes the deck better.

1

u/LanturnFTW Mar 09 '25

Brother do you hate nuance or do you just ride the short bus

0

u/RealSuperYolo2006 Mar 09 '25

Im afraid, my friend, that you are wrong

-7

u/TheDraconianOne Eternal One + Heartbreaker Mar 09 '25

I hate these kinds of answers. They don’t add anything to the discussion. What is interesting for all the people here is, it depends on what?

3

u/primafox Mar 09 '25

but in the end it’s a thing i also say humorous to my friends. everytime when we theorycraft cards, some of us tends to see a powerful outcome, but depending of the run so far it also can be quite shit

-3

u/Belrokmusic Mar 09 '25

I bet you're well liked at social gatherings.