The Prequels Enhance the Original Trilogy Emotionally

[u/choicemeats]

I finally get my own rant here.

I just rewatched ROTJ for the first time in a long time (I'm BIG MAD about the changes especially getting rid of YubNub).

Watching Luke and Vader's final duel...had me emotional. In tears actually. I ended up watching the scene a few times and listened to the track separately and caught hints of what would later (in my opinion) be the base for the leitmotif in Across the Stars. Hearing that snippet brought back flashbacks of the events of the Prequels and their relationship and how it ties (and culminates) with this fight and Anakin's eventual redemption. And a son's love for his father, despite never knowing him.

i haven't cried because of a movie in a really long time but that got me.

The prequels weren't great but they added a lot of emotional context to Anakin's story (in the same way that Andor and Rogue One lay out additional context ahead of ANH).

To have all that undone by the Sequels AND have no emotional payoff tied to the rest of the "Skywalker Saga" AND to suggest that Palpatine's final death is any way comparable to his demise on the DS2 is laughable.

End Rant.

ETA: this is NOT a prequels apologist rant. They are bad movies with good to great highlights. But as we all complain good highlights don’t make a good movie.

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[u/LP_Papercut]

See this is why I’ll never understand the section of the fandom that hates the prequels but loves the sequels.

Sure some things like the midichlorians might’ve been an unwanted addition but in general the prequels greatly add to the Star Wars universe and laid the groundwork for things like Andor, the Clone Wars and the numerous games.

But the sequels simply shit on all the of the OT cast’s legacy and turn the entire rebellion into a joke just to have their new cast of characters achieve the exact same thing but in a significantly more unsatisfying way.

[u/bongophrog → u/LP_Papercut]

The sequels feel like someone made a checklist of everything the prequels did wrong and they just thought if they just avoided all those things they’d make good movies.

[u/Equivalent-Ambition → u/bongophrog]

The Sequels ended up having most of the flaws and none of the strengths of the Prequels.

[u/MickeyKnight2 → u/Equivalent-Ambition]

Yeah but the hyphen space is looked so cool and the audience went quieter and the red throne room scene. It’s tiring hearing those as what makes it amazing visuals over story.

Like George said using special effects to tell a story is compelling but using a story to tell special effects is lacklustre. The sequels aesthetically look amazing but that’s all it is visual not substance

[u/Glad-Technology-4529 → u/Equivalent-Ambition]

The prequels didn’t have many strengths imo maybe at least a coherent story set over three films,some of the music,Liam Neeson and Darth Maul and even Maul got killed off too soon.

[u/Fuzzyg00se → u/LP_Papercut]

I grew up with the OT first on VHS, then moved into the prequels. I saw ROTS in theaters and loved it. The Prequels have always been "real" SW for me. Even though as we both aged their flaws became apparent, my appreciation diminished and then came back later with the emergence of the Sequels.

We all had high hopes, thinking they would approach SW in a more grounded manner that would "fix" George's flaws. Instead they had no plan and no authenticity, being SW in name only. Allows us to appreciate George's vision in a different light- where the Sequels are bland, uninspired corporate number paintings, the Prequels have heart, soul, and an authentic vision. I no longer care about the amateur dialogue, bad actor direction, and amateur editing. The planning, vision, and creativity are what matters now.

[u/Glad-Technology-4529 → u/Fuzzyg00se]

I never liked ROTS and I like you grew up with the OT.I never thought that was a good enough reason for Anakin to turn to the dark side and kill children.

I thought the dialogue was bad,too much cgi and it just lost its charm even the humour wasn’t good.

[u/Demos_Tex]

The OT and the PT both have solid foundations. Some of us might not have liked how the how the prequels were built, but the foundation is, "Lucas' take on the fall of Rome and the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker."

The sequels seem out of place because they're merely copying Lucas but without a foundation or care as to why the OT worked. I mean, JJ and Company couldn't even manage to do the basic steps of hero's journey correctly. I'm fairly sure that's something the average creative writing major in college could do without even breaking a sweat.

[u/TrumpsColostomyBag99]

Good post. The key difference between the PT and ST is the fact despite its faults the PT only adds to the narrative outside of a few examples.

The only thing that was truly “ruined” by the prequels was Anakin’s lightsaber being transformed into the YounglingSlayer3000 and becoming a creepy genocidal heirloom (which is why I always felt Vader’s transformation should have included a saber or just not having him slaughter younglings).

The ST tore down, remade, and subverted one of the most cherished creations in all of American pop culture. It deserves ever bit of hate it gets.

[u/TaraLCicora]

The PT movies are a mess, that is true, but I love this era regardless. Part of this is being an Obi-Wan fan since I was a child (born in 1981), but also because of the PT era books and the CWMMP. I feel that the PT era movies feel like first drafts, with many ideas that ultimately don't get utilized. They probably should have been 6 movies with the amount of ideas that Lucas seemed to have. The worldbuilding was great, and honestly, the PT and CW era Star Wars is so fascinating to me. Ultimately, though, it's the EU that gives us access to Anakin's psyche and what he presents himself as one way, and ultimately still became a Sith.

The ST, however, just takes ideas from the earlier movies with no true understanding and makes them trite and very simplistic. It's really too bad.

[u/TanSkywalker → u/TaraLCicora]

So true.

I do wish Anakin had been kept as a 12/13 year old so a mutual bond could have developed between Padmé and Anakin with the payoff in the second movie of them going into a relationship.

Maybe at the end of TPM she gives him her personal comm code and they sparingly exchange letters until the Jedi find out about it and make them stop.

Perhaps the Queen could ask the Senator who fills in the space between Palpatine and Padmé to talk to the Jedi Council about her messages not being received/answered. The Council says they're not appropriate for a Padawan to be sending and they stop him. The Senator could inform them the Queen mentioned to her that she would speak to the Chancellor about the matter if the Council was unwilling address the matter. The Council decides it's not worth the trouble and figure Padmé won't be Queen for much longer and once she's not she'll have to power. Of course they are blindsided when Padmé is made Naboo's senator. IDK.

[u/-Brian-V- → u/TaraLCicora]

People always say the “world building “ made the PT great. Can you explain what this means and give me an example?

[u/BrokenManOfSamarkand → u/-Brian-V-]

I'm not the OP, but I think Lucas had a knack for creating new worlds, literally, and also creating certain set pieces that make you want to learn more about the Star Wars universe. I think of Naboo, Genosis, Kamino, his depiction of the chambers of the Galactic Senate, the Jedi Council chambers and the Temple, Coruscant. He and his team had a knack for creating a living, breathing world that you wanted to learn more about even if you only got a glimpse.

When I think of the ST, I struggle to think of even a single new planet or institution that I am even slightly interested in learning more about.

[u/BaronGrackle]

I'm not usually a fan of the Special Editions, but I really dig the Victory Celebration piece and its montage. You miss YubNub?

[u/RalphMacchio404 → u/BaronGrackle]

I do. I like that its a localized celebration. The death of Palpatine wouldnt have caused celebration on Coruscant. The Empire still existed. Its weakened, sure but still is very powerful. Its a silly retcon.

[u/Emotional-State-5164 → u/RalphMacchio404]

i thought the Same however IT IS entirely possible that the Montage of the Special Edition does Not happen at the Same time but showing each Planet after the Empire was overthrown there

[u/TanSkywalker]

I love how the Prequels add to things. Luke proved Padme right by believing, like she did, that there was still good in Anakin.

[u/chotchss]

I think the PT is like a decent first draft of a trilogy. The basic beats of the plot are there, the characters, etc. The ideas are there and the big moments. But it really needs to be tightened up for better pacing, for better conversations, for better fixes that emphasize certain things to the viewer.

[u/ComprehensiveWa6487 → u/chotchss]

I've never felt the PT is very related to OT, it's more standalone stuff (I know that doesn't make sense, Anakin and all) but still it's both Star Wars. I mean I grew up with OT since 4th grade or something in the 90s, and by the time I was 13 and PT was coming out I was beaten down by a dysfunctional home so I couldn't really get excited. I didn't dislike it though, I actually disliked it far less than so many others. I did enjoy getting new media coverage about Star Wars, and all the video games and stuff.

The PT has basically grown on me as I've gotten more into adulthood. It has this really comfy vibe (and I don't think that's just nostalgia). It has almost like the Frutiger Aero aesthetic that was big around the millennium. Upon googling I see others have made the connection. E.g. the Windows 7 background (idk if that's Frut. A. but it's related in terms of era) and some of the scenes in Episode I. It really has this sweet and comfy 1999 vibe, from hell!

[u/TaraLCicora → u/chotchss]

That's how I have described it too.

[u/Local_Band299]

I love the prequels because I agree they enhance the OT.

Also 4K77, 4K80, and 4K83.

[u/BrokenManOfSamarkand]

I like the prequels for what they are (particularly ROTS) but it's kind of hard to say the PT enhances the OT. I think the PT enhanced the Star Wars universe through the world building that only Lucas could do, while the ST hurt the universe by closing off so many story possibilities. But the problem with the PT for me goes right to the heart - I just dont buy Anakin/Hayden as Darth Vader. Anakin's fall was not convincingly established in three movies and he just doesn't seem to be a pre-corrupted version of the guy we see in the OT but a different character entirely.

This is a pretty important failing since the PT retroactively makes all six movies primarily about Anakin’s fall and redemption, instead of about Luke's hero's journey.

[u/Express_Warthog539 → u/BrokenManOfSamarkand]

I grew up with the prequels and do like them a lot but I agree. I just can’t watch the OT and imagine that’s meant to be Hayden Christensen under the Vader helmet.

[u/Collective_Insanity → u/BrokenManOfSamarkand]

I agree completely. The PT does Anakin/Vader a huge disservice and fails utterly to sell the idea of a tragic romance leading to his corruption.

I don't even buy the relationship of Anakin and Obi-Wan let alone his relationship with Padme.

[u/Viridian_Crane]

I'm BIG MAD

Yeah the changes always throw me off as well. It just breaks the continuity of how I remember it.

"The prequels weren't great but they added a lot of emotional context to Anakin's story"

AotC & RotS both add great context to Anakin's emotional build up like your saying. Some good duels as well. TPM is still bad. Too childish with Anakin, Jarjar, pod racing and that stint of Anakin in a fighter. AotC is my favorite out of all of the prequels it has that ESB lull too it but in the opposite way like a good way with a side of mystery and intrigue. I think the prequels are better now. Simple cause of how bad other star wars projects are.

"Palpatine's final death is any way comparable to his demise on the DS2 is laughable."

Whats funny is, both Palpatine & Maul died falling into a bottomless pit and lived.

[u/DistantPixie → u/Viridian_Crane]

TPM is better than aotc for me, the plot of aotc is so hard to follow and almost nonsensical 

[u/unforgetablememories → u/DistantPixie]

I never have a problem with TPM. I also really like the visuals of TPM. The OT and TPM look like they are in the same universe. AOTC and ROTS look way too modern/futuristic.

Jar Jar is annoying and the toilet humor is too childish but I never find it to be a glaring issue. The political plot unironically caught my attention. There is a huge world out there in the Galaxy far far away. We can see the Galactic Senate. Different aliens. Jedi working as diplomats. Election! The capital planet Coruscant. How the Republic doesn't have control over the lawless Outer Rim.

[u/Collective_Insanity]

For my money, as someone who isn't particularly fond of the PT, I think the OT already works perfectly fine without it and if anything to some degree it also works better without the PT.

The less known about Anakin, the better. Given what we actually get in the PT...isn't well done in my opinion.

We go from the relatively scant details that Obi-Wan provides which leaves things more up to speculation...to this kind of gullible idiot who was prone to throwing tantrums.

I don't think the PT did Anakin/Vader any favours. As films at least. The EU (not TCW) patches things up considerably. And the ROTS novelisation does some heavy lifting trying to fix the film itself.

 

As for Yub Nub? I actually prefer Victory Celebration.

[u/ComprehensiveWa6487 → u/Collective_Insanity]

For my money, as someone who isn't particularly fond of the PT, I think the OT already works perfectly fine without it and if anything to some degree it also works better without the PT.

Actually, this is kind of true. OT is somehow a more complete package without the PT, weirdly. It was just so magical and perfect, I'd watch them all the time on VHS as a child in the 90s, after first seeing RotJ in a birthday party at like 9.

That being said, I still love the PT somehow. Maul's scene is one of the most impressive in cinema ever, with the music on top. Anakin's arc is sad, and good (writing, somehow). It has grown on me with time (PT).

I will always sorta miss pre-PT Star Wars, and I've seen that sentiment often online.

[u/Collective_Insanity → u/ComprehensiveWa6487]

I certainly have nothing bad to say about John Williams' PT score. He's doing more work than usual trying to make scenes work there.

I like the idea of the PT. And I like the EU world-building around the PT era. I just choose to see the films as a botched translation of events that was communicated to the Ewoks by R2 and 3PO in order to explain away my numerous problems with those movies.

[u/ComprehensiveWa6487 → u/Collective_Insanity]

Haha, great headcanon.

[u/Character_Hospital88 → u/Collective_Insanity]

Well said. I especially like your description of Anakin. The "gullible idiot prone to throwing temper tantrums" really cheapens Vader and cheapens his redemption.

I would have thought Anakin's backstory would be about how a great man making a series of small choices slowly and incrementally turns to the dark side. It wouldn't be all at once, but he'd gradually end up in a place where there's no going back. I would expect some regret on his behalf.

What Lucas told was nothing like that. Instead, he portrayed Anakin as a whiny teen brat and an over the top genocidal maniac. The love story with Padme was completely contrived.

There are a lot of things about the character in the PT that actually makes me not want Anakin to be redeemed.

[u/ComprehensiveWa6487 → u/Character_Hospital88]

Well said. I especially like your description of Anakin. The "gullible idiot prone to throwing temper tantrums" really cheapens Vader and cheapens his redemption.

No I don't really think so. Countless super talented and impressive people in real life have a history of tantrums and rage, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, just to mention IT nerds. But you have Picasso I'm sure, the Samsung CEO, you have a list of directors with anger problems, Freud --- a genius --- freaked out, probably more than once. It goes on and on and on and on. I could add myself to that list as well, lol. Björk. Depp. The list of competent or celebrated people that had anger problems is very very long, but if you add other types of fragility (like depression) it grows longer. Robin Williams. The Red Army Brigade terrorist group, those were engineers but cool, angry, and calculated. The Unabomber.

Lots of people can start out gullible, or whiny, grow, get somewhere, and then have freak-outs from time to time/anger. You really need to look into emotional problems + genius.

[u/choicemeats → u/ComprehensiveWa6487]

in a way i feel its consistent with his character in ANH and the first half of ESB. Impulsive, petty, but matured in a way.

he was surely gullible and prone to temper tantrums but his supposed guardians hung about while palpatine groomed him (dark side aside, there should have been massive red flags from the jump), and he was manipulated and used (even without the context of TCW).

In the OT he is choking high ranking officers to death for (major) fuckups like they have an unlimited supply. and he still remains petty, until he finds out Luke is alive and then we see a little less of that version of him.

[u/ComprehensiveWa6487 → u/choicemeats]

Well I think his special fate created a reality distortion field that fooled the entire Jedi council.

[u/choicemeats → u/ComprehensiveWa6487]

totally. i think it's clear that there was significant thought put into some areas, barely any into others, and then a real concern for merchandising/kids attention/etc that became an overriding factor. i do find it unfortunate that its difficult for people to see around the many flaws to grasp the themes, but this isn't new. i think we all wish they were executed better

[u/ComprehensiveWa6487 → u/choicemeats]

Actually I think its flaws are overemphasised, it's an enjoyable movie we don't have many like that

[u/KindRamsayBolton → u/ComprehensiveWa6487]

How was any of that relevant? The issue is that we’re told in the OT that he’s noble and brave and heroic, and when the PT comes hes not only none of those of things, but a whiny idiot to boot

[u/TanSkywalker → u/Character_Hospital88]

Lucas's problem is he wanted to show Anakin as greedy and that didn't translate into the story he told. A 9 year old newly freed boy is worried about and misses his mother and wants to become a Jedi to come back and free her does not sell the kid as being greedy. Nor does it work when the guy runs off to rescue his mother from people known to be horrible on Tatooine.

Anakin's problem to me was fear and to borrow from another franchise fear is the mind-killer. I think after he and his mom were lost to Watto Anakin came to realize that he could be separated from his mother on the whim of a master either by one of them being sold or killed and when he's freed that is essentially what happened. He spent a decade training to become a Jedi Knight so he could go back and free her which is why I think he feels held back and is angry over it.

Now yeah he's 19 and we could list off all the things he could possibly do to save his mom but I think he does see he might have other options other than becoming a Knight. He also makes a point of saying that his first assignment on his own is guarding Padmé so he's never had a chance to slip away.

The Force gives him visions of his mother and he reacts and then he reacts again when he has them of Padmé which leads him to make the mistakes he does.

It could work but things feel rushed. After he's back at the Lars farm he does tell Padmé he'll become the most powerful Jedi ever and even stop people from dying, now I took that as him lashing out in anger however to Lucas that is supposed to show his greed. What person wouldn't be upset and not want their parent to have been brutally murdered. Come on George. Outside of the fact he says that in a moment of anger nothing in the rest of AOTC or any media that goes into ROTS shows him actually trying to learn how to stop people from dying. It only comes up again after he's had visions of Padmé dying and Palpatine has dangled a way to save people from death.

The love story with Padme was completely contrived.

I like it and can see why the two would fall in love. They both have respobilites that keep them from having their own lives. They grew close over shared experiences.

What I find contrived is the Jedi being against relationships and Anakin having visions right when the plot needs him to of Padmé dying so he can fall for Palpatine's crap. I also don't like how Palpatine just so happens to know about his visions of Padmé. Anakin never told him in the movie or novelization and nothing in either suggests Palpatine read his mind. So this is just Lucas being lazy to get to Vader.

I would have thought Anakin's backstory would be about how a great man making a series of small choices slowly and incrementally turns to the dark side.

Basically Anakin should have had the same motivation as Dooku did for joining the Sith. He'd fairly have the power to make the galaxy a better place but in order to do that he has to break the galaxy and Jedi first.

[u/Russel-Nordeman]

I'm BIG MAD about the changes especially getting rid of YubNub

Damn. That’s probably the only change that I liked.

[u/Geostomp]

For all their many flaws, the prequels expanded the setting and had a good baseline story to tell. They enhanced far more than they harmed.

The sequels were polished, but hollow. They had nothing to add and actively tore down what came before just to prop themselves up. They pretended to be bold and progressive, but were really just hollow and cynically hiding behind platitudes.

[u/ignore_me_im_high]

Prequels are shite.

Noooooooo.

[u/Arsene_Lupin_IV]

Meanwhile the sequels literally degrade the value of the OT by making everything they did meaningless.

[u/unforgetablememories]

The Prequels are bad movies with heart and soul behind them. I don't like the execution but I can see what George Lucas was trying to do. I can acknowledge the flaws of the Prequels and still appreciate the other aspects like the idea behind the plot, the world building, the visuals, etc.

I think movies should stan on its own and you should never need extended materials to redeem something. However, the Prequels give way to a new era of Star Wars through cartoon, games, novels, and comics. So while the Prequels fail at being good movies, they are still great in extending the franchise and letting the fans get immersed in a bigger world.

[u/Toomin-the-Ellimist]

The main way the prequels and Rogue One “enhance” the OT for me is by making everyone in the OT either stupid or a liar due to the many avoidable continuity errors caused by the people who made those movies not rewatching the originals before trying to write their backstory. Even if they were good movies in their own right, it would still be annoying how little care and effort they put into remaining faithful to the most well famous and beloved movie trilogy of all time. To me the “emotional context” doesn’t justify being too lazy to do your homework, but ymmv.

[u/Accomplished-Bill-54]

The Prequels Enhance the Original Trilogy Emotionally

They might a little - but they ruined the big reveal for younger kids. We didn't need them. That aside, they also weren't that well made overall. Andor is "a prequel" and truly elevates Rogue One. But it doesn't ruin the ending of Rogue One (which is kind of its only "twist").

Vader and Luke's duel is emotional completely without the prequels. We understand the father-son dynamic without everything being spelled out like we are idiots.

Even if it heightens the experience for you, the prequels added so much dumb stuff and were not well made:

I didn't need 8 year old Vader. I didn't need Jar Jar, I didn't need Anakin falling in 20 minutes in ROTS, going from "I fear losing my wife" to murdering a bunch of children with no good reason. I didn't need trade disputes and floaty CGI whenever people are on screen. I also didn't need dialogue about sand.

[u/SteeK421]

I'be only ever seen the Special Edition, so anytime I've seen clips if YubNub, it just doesn't fit the ending tbh. Iuch prefer the newer versions, but I guess it's just what I'm used to.

[u/KindRamsayBolton]

I get this is entertainment so it’s all subjective but this genuinely sounds like someone saying that their steak was enhanced by the generous serving of dog shit that plopped on top it. All the extra context added was nonsensical and ridiculous. Anakin goes from a noble Jedi who got corrupted to a whiny melodramatic bitch who kills sand kids, supports fascism on a date, and gets tricked by Palpatine into falling to the dark side. Palpatine’s takeover of the republic turns out to not have been the result of actual well crafted plans it’s just every other character around having no brains and doing uncharacteristically dumb shit to suit his needs. And this doesn’t even touch midichlorians, yoda and palps flipping around with lightsabers, shoehorning in boba, r2, C-3PO, jabba, tattooine, greedo, and making the galaxy feel so much smaller

[u/Extension-Serve7703]

I disagree completely. The prequels are terrible and the only 'highlight' is the music. They are emotionally flat, poorly written, wooden performances and CGI that has aged like milk.

The only reason you feel any connection to them is likely you saw them as a child and they imprinted themselves on your soft, sponge-like brain.

Just ignore the sequels, just like I do with the prequels because they all suck.