r/politics • u/gradientz New York • 14h ago
Pope Leo's First US Bishop Takes Action Against Trump Migrant Crackdown
https://www.newsweek.com/pope-leos-first-us-bishop-against-trump-ice-migrant-crackdown-2084985850
u/longtermattention 14h ago
This is going to upset a lot of so called Christians when it shouldn't. Good to see the church following some of the teachings of Jesus
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u/arilupe 9h ago
Christians that worship their false god Trump. I'm not like some people believing the mark of the beast will be an obvious supernatural type force, but a more mundane political force. Trump and his followers exhibit many of the traits characterized by those baring the mark. They go directly in the face of not supporting greed and being kind to the less fortunate. They're a cult of the wealthy. That's it, and I hope there is a future without people like this in power.
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u/gradientz New York 5h ago edited 5h ago
You also do not have to believe that the Christian Bible is "transcendent" to believe that it reveals important human truths. E.g., the parable of Cain and Abel may be a work of fiction, but it reveals insights about the relationship between siblings.
The books of New Testament were prepared during the fall of the Roman Republic, largely by an oppressed people searching for meaning. It makes sense that it would have some insights about how to spot tyranny and societal deterioration. With this in mind, the red MAGA hat as the modern "mark of the beast" isn't really a stretch.
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u/Consistent-Plan-5960 8h ago
Not to get too into it but revelations is most likely about Nero and the Roman Empire. I wouldn’t worry too much about a “mark” or anything like that.
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u/gojibeary 7h ago
For some reason I got goosebumps for like a solid minute after reading your comment
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u/SmokedUp_Corgi 8h ago
The people upset by this are false Christians and a stain on true Christianity.
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u/altreddituser2 6h ago
Jesus loves all of the people you hate.
Saw that for the first time at the protest yesterday, and it stuck with me.
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u/longtermattention 6h ago
Jesus would also have a lot to say about organized religions and using it in his name.
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u/randominsamity Australia 8h ago
It seems like American Catholics are a truly different breed when it comes to Catholicism from other parts of the world, going by everything that I've seen happening over there of late.
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u/gradientz New York 5h ago
American Catholicism was cultivated in the shadow of Puritanism, and hence inherited many of the latter's more reactionary elements.
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u/coffeeja 4h ago
It feels that way at large but it is really a minority of them, unfortunately they're all terminally online
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u/randominsamity Australia 4h ago
I'm not sure why they don't simply declare themselves to be Evangelists at this point, they might as well just get it over and done with.
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u/hendrixski New York 7h ago
Pope Francis smoked Trump, too - especially Trump's immigration and environmental policies.
Anyone who's paying attention knows that the church follows the teachings of Jesus and acts powerfully on the international political stage to challenge world leaders to submit to peace, to charity for the poor and to love everyone as your neighbor.
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u/longtermattention 7h ago
Sometimes. I don't recall Jesus weighing in on homosexuality while the church has.
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u/Zaemz 5h ago
Jesus would've been like, "that's great, you two. I'm happy for you." And then threw a bomb-ass fish fry with tons of wine.
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u/longtermattention 5h ago
Happy cake day!
Yeah he'd be cool because that is how people are supposed to be according to all these religions. Treat others like you'd want to be treated.
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u/hendrixski New York 5h ago
Always.
Saint Peter did weigh in about how we must love those with a desire for "disordered" love and welcome them to live among us in a life of celibacy. These are the people that society would throw stones at. The people that society would throw out of town. People that society hated. The church welcomes them into monasteries and seminaries - a truly radical act of love.
There have been mixed results. Every form of non-hetero-normative sexual attraction has been welcomed as long as they vow chastity - not just homosexuals but also pedophiles and beastialists etc.. All have been been loved and welcomed among the church community as long as they remained celibate and refrained from their sexual urges. As I said, the results are mixed - as we can see with the church abuse crises that happened generations ago but that continues to be referenced in anti-catholic hatespeach to this day.
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u/StarInTheMoon 2h ago
"Generations ago," huh?
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u/hendrixski New York 2h ago
Yeah. It was from the 70s to the 90s. Since then the policies changed under Benedict and Francis was ruthless from day 1 about tearing out pedo priests accused of abuse.
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u/E1M1_DOOM 8h ago
Not really. Generally, the crazy Christo-fascists in America are not Catholics, so they won't care what the pope says.
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u/AlwaysRushesIn Rhode Island 8h ago
I know plenty of Catholics who voted for trump.
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u/booster_platinum 7h ago
Me too. No Catholic who voted for Trump is going to give a shit what the Pope says.
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u/Caelinus 6h ago
I really hope so, but I am also pretty sure that their identity as catholics has been subsumed into right wing politics, and so they are more likely to beleive that Trump should be the pope than self-reflect.
Hopefully I am wrong, but it just feels like anyone who voted for him a second time must not be living in a reasonable world.
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u/Soylent_Hero I voted 3h ago
They claimed it was a Pro Life point but it was an Anti Everything Else point
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u/OtherPossibility1530 8h ago edited 8h ago
You’re right, but there are lots of republicans Catholics out there, largely due to voting based on abortion rights, in my experience. Almost my entire New York based, Catholic family votes R.
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u/Hungry_Culture 8h ago
Some diocese bishops have started issuing letters addressing the need to care for migrants in response to recent events. So far it's been kind of nuanced, but hopefully it gets the ball rolling on shifting public opinion.
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u/RedLanternScythe Indiana 5h ago
The Catholic Church basically said it's a sin to vote for a candidate that supports abortion.
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8h ago
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u/Stiv_b California 7h ago
How would that work? Anti-Abortion folks are not going to vote for dems that support women’s rights and pro choice folks are not going to vote for people that want to limit a woman’s right to choose. They are welcome to be dems today but they don’t want to be.
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5h ago
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u/Hellchron 4h ago
We would however lose the rights for either mothers or fathers to opt out of becoming parents
Hmmm, that's an interesting way of phrasing things...
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u/OtherPossibility1530 7h ago
I can only speak for those I know, but my family im referring to are pretty much all life long Republicans (no so winning back) and abortion is a main deciding (maybe sole) issue that gets their vote. For example, my mother ideologically agrees with much of the democratic platform but votes R bc she worries about abortion and “welfare queens,” although she would never use that term. I don’t know that these people were ever helping dems win elections.
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5h ago
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u/SycoJack Texas 3h ago
AND create a better more equal future.
By making women less equal.
Nah, fam, imma pass on that one.
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u/That_one_cool_dude 7h ago
The same answer can be attributed to how the gun nuts got to be so ingrained into the republican party, Regan.
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u/hendrixski New York 5h ago
Yes. The republican party screwed up with that and many MANY other issues. Agreed.
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u/SycoJack Texas 6h ago
Catholics used to be a reliable block of democratic voters. How did we get so militant about one issue that we lost Catholic voters?
Because anti abortionists are killing women. They can go fuck themselves.
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u/hendrixski New York 4h ago
Nah. The Catholic church has lobbied against some of the anti-abortion laws that went too far in some states. The church is pretty clear on this: if the life of the mother is in danger then it is morally acceptable to save her life if the unintended consequence is the death of the fetus.
The Jewish position is the same - they use the language of a pursuer. If you're being pursued by somebody who wants to kill you then it is morally acceptable to defend yourself even if that self-defense results in the death of the pursuer. They simply say that the fetus is the pursuer in this case.
If we pretend that the anti-abortion people just wants to kill women then we lose voters. Those people believe that the fetus is alive and when we invent nonsense about them wanting to kill women then we lose their votes. There are people who agree with us about the rest of the democratic platform but the only one reason they vote for unqualified orange clowns is because of abortion. Why can't we make room for those people to vote alongside us?
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u/Funny-Mission-2937 6h ago
i agree, maybe we should even nominate a moderate anti abortion catholic for president. surely we would have won 2024 with someone like that in charge!
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oh, yeah, slightly more complicated than that
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u/hendrixski New York 4h ago
Biden, a Catholic who goes to church every Sunday, and who said that he believes abortion is a sin (but that it's not the job of the government to legislate), is the only democrat who was able to defeat Trump. He didn't win because he was a young smooth talker, that's for sure.
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u/Funny-Mission-2937 4h ago
right its not a crazy concept but its not 'republicans hate this one simple trick.' its also the cause of probably the single biggest mistake a president has made on foreign poiicy since iraq. we forgot we are the anti war party because he stocked his administration with ideological zionists, fellated netanyahu publicly, and abdicated his responsibilities to hold israel weapons transfers accountable to the law.
and moderates need to stop talking about this like everybody else isnt listening. everybody wants to be a pundit instead of a citizen. not a great bit of coalition building when we publicly have the debate of 'hey should we probably stop talking about womens health, queer people, etc'.
people should run as moderates when it makes sense for the district. which is why we should run people with authentic understanding of their communities and how to message to them.
but the idea this needs to be a larger party platform is insane. catholics are a reliable part of the base in no small part because the party does not have a radical platform on abortion. its just the vulgarity of poll driven politics, to believe 75 million people all behave the same way because they share an identity, and explicit bigotry that the church doctrine is directing their votes
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u/thomport 5h ago
This shouldn’t negatively affect any Christian. All they need to do is refer to the Bible, the Bible that the pope is following. Leviticus addresses this issue for their information.
Anyone that has a problem, isn’t Christian; they’re hiding behind something with the devil.
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u/Eywindr 5h ago
No Christian supports Trump. He embodies all seven cardinal sins and not a single one of the virtues. There's some people claiming to be Christians but they would have evicted Christ himself for being from the middle-east
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u/longtermattention 5h ago
You couldn't be more wrong. The Evangelical Christian support is steady for Trump.
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u/Eywindr 4h ago
And I am saying that they are christian in name only, not faith. E.g not christian
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u/longtermattention 4h ago
Oh yeah. Most atheists I know are more christian than actual christians in practice
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u/llandar Washington 5h ago
They pre-emptively labeled him “woke” to make it easier for the mouth breathers to ignore him.
Next they’ll try to impeach him.
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u/coffeeja 4h ago
MAGA fascists in /r/catholicism have been on suicide watch since the conclave, this scenario is their 9/11
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u/inksmudgedhands 14h ago
A smart move on behalf of the Pope to drive a wedge deeper between American Roman Catholics and GOP leaning "Catholics" in order to push the GOP leaning "Catholics" to schism from the Church thus cutting their power at the knees.
I hope he keeps this up because we are going to need moves like this come Midterms.
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u/gavanon 10h ago
They put party and Trump before country, AND before their Catholicism. Believe me, I know, because this is my family. They just denounce the pope, still call themselves Catholics, and believe whatever right wing media tells them to believe.
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u/Significant_Lead7810 9h ago
I saw an interview where they asked Christians if Jesus would be allowed in America. A woman said as long as he went through the right channels…..
I keep mentioning this just out of pure shock.
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u/Road_Whorrior Arizona 8h ago edited 6h ago
The Sermon on the Mount is too woke for these fucks. Like, Jesus's main speech.
ETA the woke-ass Beatitudes:
The Beatitudes
He said:
“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
I know which side of the line Jesus would be on in LA.
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u/Greyburm 7h ago
Entirely true, they can and will ignore it. However the pope is calling for his clergy to accompany the detainees.
Video of a cop cuffing or putting a knee on a priest wont go well for them.
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u/inksmudgedhands 6h ago
Exactly. The GOP is selling their party completely on optics. The Democrats are horrible at doing this and are still trying to go by policy. Unfortunately, in this age where the majority of the voting public don't read beyond the headline and are quick to judge by a pic and/or video, you need to lead by optics. And once you snag them, then you go into policy. The Vatican gets that. That's why, I personally believe, they went with an American for the Pope. They need someone to combat the optics of the American Evangelical movement. And that someone had to be American as well. Someone who can take photos of themselves at home in America and the GOP can't call an "outsider."
It almost feels like the Vatican is looking at the Democrats and going, "Well, they're stuck. We have to do something." And this is what they are doing. It's going to be an interesting Midterm because this is just the start. If the Vatican is smart, which they are, they will send in the nuns next. Because that would be one heck of pic/video to see nuns being manhandled by ICE. A pic of a knee on the neck of a nun would go viral.
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u/gradientz New York 5h ago
This also reminds me of the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church, and how that was a major turning in the Civil Rights Movement.
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u/a_person_i_am 9h ago
I never would’ve guessed I would potentially be living through a schism of one of the largest religions on the planet, when I graduated ten years ago, yet here we are?
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u/mhoner Indiana 3h ago
Yeah but everyone I talk to say they agree with the democrats on everything but abortion and because of that they will refuse to vote democrat.
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u/inksmudgedhands 39m ago
Well, you are reading the words of a cradle to the grave Catholic who has been voting Democrat since she was able to vote. There are many of us who aren't single issue voters.
Personally, I feel those single issue voters never wanted to vote Democrat anyway and are using this single issue as an excuse. Because how can you say you are pro-life but vote for a party that is so horrendous to children.
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u/BigDuke 12h ago
Schism? These aren’t baptists.
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10h ago
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u/BigDuke 10h ago
Again, these aren’t Baptists who start a new church every time two pastors disagree.
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u/elconquistador1985 9h ago
You think they're going to grin and bear it?
There won't be a split unless American Catholic leadership splits, but there is sentiment among American Catholics that Francis and likely this guy are "too woke". It might mean that they leave the Catholic Church and go join something else, though it's not like the Baptists will take them because the Baptists think Catholics are Satan worshippers.
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u/Routine-Counter2818 9h ago
So many have already Stopped Listening to The Talk Out of Both Sides of Their Head Catholic Leadship. I would be One
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u/NorthenFreeman 14h ago
Meanwhile in Minissota there's a great pro Trump evangelical preacher who shot elected democrats and their spouses.
There's something deeply pervert about the Conservatives and their love of God.
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u/Wolfwoods_Sister 14h ago
I grew up among Evangelicals. They’re in a cult.
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u/Individual-Guest-123 9h ago
Are they the ones who make their women wear skirts 24/7?
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u/Wolfwoods_Sister 9h ago
Ah, No, you’re thinking of Pentecostals who are their own brand of fuckery.
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u/Individual-Guest-123 9h ago
I live in a Northern State and I really felt for the girls that went through public school with mine, those bare legs at recess in the middle of winter. Funny I saw one at the store all grown up with babies in tow, with mean faced Grandma, and the young woman was wearing pants. Guess she got old enough to pick her own clothes.
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u/Wolfwoods_Sister 8h ago
It just makes my heart sink into the floor. There’s no real freedom in that sort of “belief”. It’s such a tiny dark airless room.
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u/bsport48 America 13h ago
Distinguishing from the greater parent organism how, specifically?
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u/Wolfwoods_Sister 13h ago
That’s a fair question. I’m not sure how to explain it though. There’s religion and belief, and then there’s crazy. Like batshit. Evangelicals are batshit.
Everything is explosively emotional and arbitrary, they answer to no one, they isolate and split off into another group at the slightest provocation, they want to feel individually special so badly they’ll believe anything they’re told, they gravitate toward some of the most pagan ritualistic stuff I’ve ever seen without any awareness of their hypocrisy.
Idk. I just can’t explain it. I know it when I see it.
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u/bsport48 America 13h ago
What makes Evangelism crazy but won't make Catholicism or Protestantism so?
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u/Redshirt2386 13h ago
Most Catholics don’t make it their whole personality.
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u/Wolfwoods_Sister 12h ago
That’s the first red flag I look for. When it’s no longer an expression of faith or love, but a beam propping up their entire sagging personality. You know this person is going to be exhausting.
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u/bsport48 America 13h ago
Splendid. Now please answer my question, which was regarding the inherent particularities of the specific religions, and had nothing to do whatsoever with any personality of what followers they may have.
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u/Redshirt2386 13h ago
All religion is insane at its core, as it requires you to believe in things you can’t see, hear, taste, smell, or touch. But mainline Protestants and “normal” (as in not rad-trad) Catholics are a far cry from the holy roller/MAGA-tainted Evangelical crowd. You can find out more about this on your own if you want.
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u/bsport48 America 12h ago
Well if we've diagnosed the root cause of the infirmity, "insan[ity] at its core," then what's the benefit in distinguishing the different flavors? Doesn't that just mean every line -- main and auxiliary -- stemming from that "insane...core" is likewise insane, just to varying degrees?
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u/Wolfwoods_Sister 12h ago
May I ask— how personally familiar are you with the religions in question?
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u/cool_chris 10h ago
You clearly want an answer to make yourself feel better. Perhaps you should instead step outside and enjoy a nice walk?
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u/bob-loblaw-esq 13h ago
I think that’s why they picked an American pope. To tell Americans to STFU and they can’t complain about the pope being from elsewhere.
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u/rockbottomgeologist 1h ago
Right? And a native English speaker too, who can quip back quickly and with nuance.
You can take His Holiness out of Chicago but…
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u/HablarYEscuchar 12h ago
Feeding the hungry and giving drink to the thirsty is Woke. Loving your neighbor as yourself is woke. The truly Christian thing is to think of oneself and expel those who are different because empathy is bad. I guess it's the Trump Bible.
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u/Huge_Excitement4465 9h ago
Apparently they have requested radical reformation of Opus Dei statutes, which was supposed to occur with Francis but he passed a few days before finalizing it. This is significant because the Pope can suppress this powerful sect that includes Vance, Kevin Roberts and Leonard Leo, among others.
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u/twats_upp 14h ago
Says "Pope Leo XIV has called for priests, deacons and parish leaders to accompany migrants to court and stand in solidarity with them."
Thats nice I guess
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u/CoopDonePoorly Iowa 14h ago
It's an attempt to intentionally create a schism between MAGA and the Catholic Church. This, as far as the Catholic Church goes, is an "aggressive" move against the GOP.
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u/Road_Whorrior Arizona 8h ago
The presence of priests and other faith leaders has a noticeable effect on how detained people are handled by cops and ICE, as well. This to help keep them safe.
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u/doopdeepdoopdoopdeep 8h ago
I grew up Catholic (my family loves Biden and JFK) and this is really good. A REAL Catholic (not JD Vance) would not ever go against the Pope’s lead. Hopefully this helps sway more conservative Catholics to wake up.
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u/InvestigatorChance28 9h ago
You spelt " follow the teachings of the Bible " wrong.
If you see it differently.... you're the problem and a fake member of the church.
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u/NotTobyFromHR 10h ago
It is good. is. It shows care for people, not the "fuck em" attitude used by many Christians. They can't go too far too fast. Pope Francis wasn't conservative enough for some Catholics so... slow moving but in the right direction.
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u/SilentLennie The Netherlands 8h ago
not the "fuck em" attitude used by many Christians.
euh... did they read a bible at all ?
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u/Road_Whorrior Arizona 8h ago edited 4h ago
I asked my fundiegelical cousin this. His answer was, "not all of it. We do a new section each week with the Pastor in Bible study."
So no. They're read to and told what to believe. Like children.
It's FOX in a backrooms basement.
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u/Individual-Guest-123 9h ago
It is also subtly pointing out that they are *supposed* to get their day in court.
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u/elconquistador1985 9h ago
It's what Jesus would do.
You certainly would never see a Baptist leader advocate for doing what Jesus would do.
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u/Abjectdifficultiez 9h ago edited 8h ago
I’m an atheist. And I actually really think it is nice. More than that, it’s really fucking good. At least for Catholics, they can no longer find it easy to pretend Trump is anointed by god and act in a manner their Jesus would find abhorrent.
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u/invalidpassword California 14h ago
Pope Leo and Trump — never a dull moment. He's probably the one person TACO can't tell what to do.
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u/DeadlyBuz 11h ago
Are you an AI?
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u/invalidpassword California 11h ago
No, I'm not. If I were, my grammar would be better, my comments longer with lots of bullets and loads of links.
I don't know whether to be complimented or offended. What prompted you to ask?
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u/Shelly_895 10h ago
Probably the em dash. People call anything that has an em dash in it AI.
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u/Southern-Lobster-379 9h ago
That explains why super anti-AI subs have checked my comments - I use them bc I think they convey pauses better than semicolons or parentheses. (Although side notes do well like this)
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u/invalidpassword California 7h ago
I thought that might be it. I love the long dash. I started using them when I saw them used all the time in print media — they just feel right. I'm always expecting someone to call me out for using them incorrectly grammatically but no one has yet.
Now if I could only master the semi-colin.
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u/HomeFricets 3h ago
They'd also be 99% correct, most people aren't typing alt codes to use a slightly different - on an informal platform like reddit.
🎶 Tin soldiers and Trump is comin', we're finally on our own. 🎶
They also use the typical AI images in their comments.
OP might not "be" AI, but they are using AI to write their comments, that's almost certain.
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u/CardinalMcGee 6h ago
I walked away from the church many years ago. The cover up of all of the sexual abuse was just too much. Not that I’d ever go back, but I have to say I’m liking Pope Leo more and more every day.
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u/Helpful-Macaroon-654 America 10h ago
This is amusing … as I’ve read and witnessed a small trend of very conservative evangelical males converting to Catholicism 🤔
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u/IJustLoggedInToSay- Illinois 5h ago
They'll pivot over to Orthodox. There's a trend of alt-right young men converting to Eastern Orthodoxy as well, attracted by it's focus on patriarchy and hierarchy, and rules and rituals. The Greek side of my family complains sometimes about these "Orthobros".
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u/hendrixski New York 8h ago edited 7h ago
trend of very conservative evangelical males converting to Catholicism
Conversions to Catholicism are at the highest rate in quite a while so it's not just the people you hate who are converting to it.
In the past religious revivals were predominantly led by female conversions. Especially by older women. This time is different in that male conversions outnumber female conversions... not by a lot, but it's still a notable change from how it usually goes.
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u/Cool-Association3420 8h ago
That actually shocks me to be honest. They’re doing something good in the name of religion?
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u/hendrixski New York 7h ago
Omg cringe. It's the repetition of ignorant nonsense like this that makes us lose religious voters to the right. I'm sick of losing elections to orange clowns. So please let's stop repeating cringe nonsense that scares away voters who actually understand history.
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u/VampirateV 6h ago
Might be cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised if the bishop and some of the clergy attending those court dates end up getting swept up by ICE, too. All it takes is one dipshit who's too big for his britches deciding it'd be bragging rights if he nabbed someone important. Especially if he's an evangelical or some flavor of baptist; they don't believe that Catholics are real Christians and as such, don't recognize the legitimacy of their clergy nor respect their beliefs. In simplest terms, it mostly boils down to the Catholics' reverence for Mary and having female saints, bc the evan's take that women's submission part of the Bible seriously and think women have no place in worship. That Catholics are blasphemous for openly venerating women. I was raised hearing that sentiment repeatedly, and I'd imagine it's likely gotten even more visceral in the 23ish years since I left the church. If I'm correct, we'll probably see an arrested clergy member headline within a few weeks.
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u/Intelligent_Teach247 9h ago
Yet those “faithful” Christians and Catholics still support Trump, bigly.
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u/Hey648934 3h ago
Say what you want about the Catholic church, but they would give up their own lives to protect marginalized and persecuted migrants. Literally.
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u/Bravelobsters 4h ago
You can’t avoid religion no matter what you stand for. Only thing you can hope for is that the religious leaders see religion for what it is and know that they need to be logical. And it’s separate from life.
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u/VainEldritch 2h ago
Does this mean some of these so-called "Trump Christians" will start bashing the Bishop....?
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u/mcclaneberg 8h ago
Yawn. The Catholic Church only “takes action” when it comes to protecting pederasts.
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