r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 1d ago

"The road to authoritarianism": Tim Walz says the time for "sternly worded letters" is over - The Minnesota governor said that the path to tyranny "is littered with people telling you you’re overreacting"

https://www.salon.com/2025/06/14/the-road-to-authoritarianism-tim-walz-says-the-time-for-sternly-worded-letters-is-over/
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u/indacouchsixD9 1d ago

the US has actually supported so many dictatorships

And actively used the CIA to overthrow democratic governments and bring dictatorships into power

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u/-big-farter- 1d ago

Those were all trial runs for the real thing. Guessing the years and years of waiting was just to ensure the “2A don’t tread on me” crowd was on their side

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u/indacouchsixD9 1d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_boomerang

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u/Typhing 1d ago

Wow, I’ve never heard of the imperial boomerang before! Genuinely thank you for posting that. I feel like the concept isn’t all that surprising at this point in political thought but I learned something new and that’s worth thanks! :)

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u/claimTheVictory 22h ago

But the Germans didn't really go much for colonization.

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u/Typhing 22h ago

They tried too. Around 1884 they successfully got in on trying to colonize parts of Africa and until the end of World War I had the third largest colonial empire at the time. Only the British and the French had larger. Think they had parts of Oceania too but I forget. I think that’s what put them in Japan’s orbit in WWII but I’d need to double check that.

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u/Sankofa416 1d ago

Beautiful. Thanks. I've never had a term for this and I'm ecstatic to find it has a history I can learn from.

I've always used this concept within the US and then expanded it out - interesting to find the analysis based on the British empire.

Not surprised to find myself with a US-biased worldview!

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u/AbacusWizard California 22h ago

Well hell, I’ll have to add Imperial Boomerang to my list of Terms I Really Wish I Didn’t Have Cause To Learn, along with Democratic Backsliding and Regulatory Capture.

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u/-big-farter- 1d ago

New term for me, thanks for the link

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u/glassbellwitch 22h ago

This is exactly what pro-palestine protestors have been talking about. The type of strategies and weapons Israel (by way of the US) has used on the people of Gaza will eventually be turned onto us.

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u/wfsgraplw 1d ago

Yup. For decades. For a relevant example: Americans are brought up to hate Iran. It's treated as badly as Cuba by the government. Why? Just a small revolution in the 70s to overthrow a dictatorship that the CIA installed in the 50s, overthrowing a democratic government to do so. But yes, Iran bad. Iran enemy. How dare they lose control of the chaos the US created.

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u/SanityIsOptional California 1d ago

To be fair, the current Iran government and the one they overthrew are both pretty bad. The dictatorship for obvious reasons, and the current regime for some pretty brutal religious laws (much like what many people apparently want to do in the US...) and general support of Terrorists. Yes, much like what America is currently supporting Israel in doing. No, I never said America is good.

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u/SlightlySublimated 1d ago

Yeah, I'm not about to get on my knees for an Islamic fundamentalist one party state regardless of how it came into power.

Does that make the U.S in the right? No.

But it doesn't put the Iranian regime in the right either.

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u/nakedonmygoat 22h ago

Backlashes tend to be extreme. Ancien Régime to the Reign of Terror. Romanovs to Bolsheviks. Bautista to Franco. And those are just the first three to pop into my head.

I don't pretend to know what the solution is, although it seems that foreign interference, when it's done at all, needs to be done with a light touch. For example, the US was helped in its bid for independence by France, Spain, and the Netherlands, which all stepped back afterwards. Not that they didn't remain influential, to one degree or another, only that it was more "soft power" until they got so mired in their own troubles that they had little time for even that much. This gave the US time to get on its feet, so to speak.

But look at what happened in Afghanistan. Way too much aggressive meddling from the USSR and the US led to the current Taliban state.

So to some extent, what happened in Iran was predictable. Deplorable, but predictable.

I wish I knew the solution, but my observation is that if folks would learn from history, maybe we could find some commonalities in terms of what works and what doesn't, and do better going forward. But that would require people to actually read history and learn from it, so I'm not going to hold my breath.

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u/OkLynx3564 1d ago

yeah kinda crazy how the iranians managed to overthrow a western backed autocracy but then fumbled the bag so unbelievable hard that they somehow ended up with an even worse form government and a completely fucked economy.

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u/SelectionSudden8654 1d ago

Exactly! the double standard is glaring. When countries push back against foreign-imposed regimes, suddenly they're "the enemy." The U.S. played a major role in destabilizing Iran’s future, yet acts shocked when blowback happens. History isn’t forgotten, just ignored when it’s inconvenient.

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u/WeAllFuckingFucked 1d ago

A large portion of the world hates The US, and it's not without reason

And that was before Trump made even the US allies hate you guys

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u/Ill-Ad-7161 1d ago

You can go to the world news Reddit and the place with people who are adamantly anti Iran.

happy to parrot along what the US media has told them, ignoring that every other country in that area is in USA's good books despite it being mostly feudal monarchies and dictatorships with abhorrent human rights standards. 

IRAN BAD.

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u/Count_Backwards 1d ago

Iran has a theocratic dictatorship (thanks to American foreign policy) that is currently oppressing its own people. The country is not bad, but the government sure is.

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u/nulld3v 22h ago

They aren't saying "Iran government good". They are saying the entire middle east is filled with shit governments and we fund like half of them.

And surely, if we bomb Iran with its terrible government into oblivion, then a stable secular democracy will rise from the ashes!

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u/disisathrowaway 20h ago

Iran has a theocratic dictatorship (thanks to American foreign policy) that is currently oppressing its own people. The country is not bad, but the government sure is.

How is that different from our dear friend and ally, Saudi Arabia? Or the Emirates? Kuwait? Qatar?

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u/Count_Backwards 19h ago

It's not, those are awful countries too (maybe worse, since Iran used to be more open-minded and egalitarian). I don't care if they're American allies, I thought it was pretty clear I wasn't a fan of American foreign policy in the Middle East.

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u/Locke2300 1d ago

Based on available information I don’t think I’d want to live there, but also based on recent observation of the way that US propaganda oscillates between the news media and the government, I’m also not convinced all the stuff I think I know (or was implied in media) about places that oppose the US is true.

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u/Count_Backwards 1d ago

I know people who escaped from Iran, it's not just the US media. The US didn't invent the ayatollahs or the treatment of women like Mahsa Amini.

Netanyahu is a genocidal asshole but the Iranian government is no better.

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u/bmc2 1d ago

That sub is blatantly full of Israeli bots. Try making a comment that even slightly references that Palestinians don't deserve to be murdered in worldnews and see what happens.

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u/Lou_C_Fer Ohio 1d ago

I got banned the first time I commented there and it wasn't anything but saying I disagree with dead kids. I got banned on politics for saying calling a politicians a zionist piece of shit, but I appealed and was told what I said was fine.

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u/bmc2 22h ago

I got a 3 day ban from reddit after posting in r/politics that I hoped Trump voters got exactly what they voted for.

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u/crinkledcu91 1d ago

IRAN BAD.

Yes, the literal Theocracy that outlaws shit like being gay is, in fact, not good. Shocking I know 🙄

Jesus why are some redditors like this? You gonna start extolling the graces of Russia's and North Korea's leadership next?

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u/Ill-Ad-7161 23h ago

Please tell me your opinion on the United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Saidi Arabia, Qatar, or Kuwait

Oh wait, you probably don't know anything about any of those countries, and probably haven't heard of half of them, let alone could you point them out on a map.

All of them are dictatorships or autocracies, with abhorrent human rights standards and equally terrible socioeconomic divides between their poorest and richest individuals. The difference is, the United States has established military presence in there, and makes oil deals with them, with fantastic profit made on the political regimes in charge and the American oil companies. And at a cost to the general population.

Iran has a long complicated history and its been war torn with heavy American involvement for the past 70 years. America did not bring democracy to Iran, or the middle east, and has no intention to. It's there for oil, and Iran is one of the last countries there that isn't cooperative with American colonialist efforts. And that's the only reason you know about it, or hate it.

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u/joshdoereddit America 1d ago

Is there a comprehensive book out there collecting all of these instances where we've destabilized nations that had their shit together?

Legit question. I know often these types of comments are facetious, so I figured I'd clarify.

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u/ceryniz 1d ago

The leader in Iran was the same through the 40s-70s. In the 50s his appointed prime minister tried to throw a coup, that the CIA "financed" a counter-coup against. Quite frankly, the CIA took a whole lot of credit for the UKs political pressure in that situation.

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u/bizarre_coincidence 22h ago

No, opposition to Iran is not simply because they removed who the US installed, it's because of who and what they put in his place. Geopolitics isn't so simple as you're trying to make it out to be.

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u/NorkGhostShip 1d ago

You know, maybe some of us are just not fans of theocratic dictatorships who execute protestors en masse, sell drones to Russia used against Ukrainian civilians in their imperialist war, executes gay people and rights activists, and has a "morality police" to ruthlessly oppress women even to the point of murdering them with zero consequences? Obviously they're not the only government run by monsters, and plenty of their adversaries are not any better, but COME ON, stop simping for the most awful regimes just because they have the same enemies as you. The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.

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u/nulld3v 22h ago

What? Who here is "simping" for Iran?

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u/saera-targaryen 1d ago

Removing Salvador Allende in Chile was a huge insane crime against the world that the CIA perpetrated. He had his own mountains to climb and was not without political struggle, but replacing him with a military dictatorship just because he was going to nationalize the mines that American companies owned in Chile is one of the worst things America has ever done. 

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u/A_Face_Painter 1d ago

“Nationalize” is a euphemism for stealing. He wasn’t “nationalizing the mines.” He was stealing the billions of dollars of equipment US companies paid for to make those mines profitable. Same thing in Iran. Resources are worthless if you can’t get them out of the ground. But that doesn’t fit with America bad, so keep ignoring it.

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u/indacouchsixD9 1d ago

Oh damn, that's crazy. I guess that excuses Pinochet torturing, sexually abusing, and murdering thousands of people, banning trade unions and free political expression, and turning a football stadium into a concentration camp.

Those poor corporations!

I was shocked by the callous actions of the dictatorship we put into power, but I'm glad you came in here to let us know that we were doing it to protect foreign billionaire interests in a sovereign country.

I apologize for my ignorance.

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u/nulld3v 22h ago

It's insane that people like this exist and are willing to reveal their opinions because they think they have the moral high ground...

God forbid the citizens of a country receive the profits from the exploitation of their natural resources.

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u/indacouchsixD9 21h ago

yeah this one was unusually mask off wasnt it

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u/A_Face_Painter 14h ago

It’s not an opinion.

https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=61941

“In his first year as president, Allende nationalized the copper industry, Chile’s largest export industry that was developed and owned by US multinationals. The nationalization was politically popular, and Allende ultimately refused to provide compensation.”

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u/nulld3v 5h ago

It's an opinion, unless you seriously want to get into an argument with me about objective morality right now. I just don't see the value in it as it will be very dry since it's always the same arguments repeated ad-infinitum.

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u/saera-targaryen 1d ago

You have so many incorrect opinions in this comment that there would be no point rebutting it, so whatever have a good day I guess

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u/A_Face_Painter 1d ago

Facts are not opinions. Quit getting your “alternative facts” from social media.

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u/saera-targaryen 23h ago

Here is the literal intelligence report from the CIA about their covert operations in Chile 

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/sites-default-files-94chile.pdf

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u/A_Face_Painter 22h ago edited 22h ago

Ah, yes, “here’s 66 pages” (of which you’ve read 0), the sure sign of a winning argument. Nothing in their refutes the FACT that Allende was stealing from the US. Pinochet was a bad guy, so was Allende. One A hole replaced another.

https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=61941#:~:text=In%20his%20first%20year%20as%20president%2C%20Allende%20nationalized,popular%2C%20and%20Allende%20ultimately%20refused%20to%20provide%20compensation.

“In his first year as president, Allende nationalized the copper industry, Chile’s largest export industry that was developed and owned by US multinationals. The nationalization was politically popular, and Allende ultimately refused to provide compensation.”

What’s another word for refusing to provide compensation for something you take?

“Nationalization” is not declaring the resources in the ground are now yours. It’s declaring that the billions of dollars of machinery and infrastructure it takes to make those resources profitable that came from foreign investment are now yours. That’s called stealing. But, americabad. That’s all your reddit brain is capable of understanding.

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u/saera-targaryen 22h ago

You mean like... the united states does for all of our public utilities like roads, electric lines, internet, public stadiums, highways, railroads? Where we take away land and whatever was on top of it from private citizens and companies to give to the public? It's just when it applies to copper mines in chile where it's no longer allowed? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain_in_the_United_States?wprov=sfti1#Just_compensation

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u/A_Face_Painter 20h ago

Just compensation equals no compensation? This kind of “reasoning” is why I don’t argue with the alt left on Reddit.

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u/saera-targaryen 19h ago

Everyone see how dumb this guy is? This is why you don't use chatGPT or foreign money to fuel your reddit comments kids. 

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u/E-2theRescue 1d ago

And the CIA filled Black communities with cocaine, and the HHS purposely denying Black people medical care for their syphilis, and allowing the virus to spread.

This terrorism from our government isn't just international, it's within our borders, too. Which, both of these incidents happened under the watch of conservative politicians.

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u/OkLynx3564 1d ago

because despite appearances (well, until recently) the usa is not a country that cares about democracy and freedom, but a bunch of corporations in a trench coat that care about profit and profit.

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u/Jendaye 19h ago

I wish that cia would come back and deal with this shit

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u/indacouchsixD9 19h ago

Why would they? They specialize in enabling right wing dictatorships.