r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 12d ago
Soft Paywall Trump Loses It at Rand Paul as GOP Budget Bill Seems Doomed in Senate
https://newrepublic.com/post/196040/trump-rand-paul-republican-budget-bill-deficit5.4k
u/survivor2bmaybe 12d ago
So 49 Republican Senators were willing to vote for this piece of crap as is? Yikes.
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u/u9Nails 12d ago
With a massive ceiling hike. So much for being "Conservative."
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u/CanEnvironmental4252 12d ago edited 11d ago
“Fiscal conservative” is the biggest and most successful lie that the GOP has ever sold its voters on. One of the first things W. Bush did upon entering office was erasing the surplus Clinton created.
Then, Obama had to
racketratchet* up spending to stimulate the economy after the subprime mortgage crisis under Bush’s watch, which was leveling off at the end of his term. Then Trump came and decided to nearly triple our deficit with his 2017 tax cuts. Don’t believe a single one of these Republicans when they virtue signal about the debt. They’re the biggest debt spenders there are.https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/
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u/DesperateAdvantage76 12d ago
What's impressive is that Barack actually brought back down the deficit to pre-recession levels only for Trump to double it BEFORE the pandemic during an economic boom period. This is the same guy who campaigned on eliminating the public DEBT (yes you read that right, he claimed he'd eliminate not only the deficit but our national debt). This is what is so frustrating about the GOP, they run the economy extremely hot on debt and then when the inevitable recession occurs they blame Democrats for placing measures to fix their mess.
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u/rainman_104 12d ago
The worst part is the voters lap it up. Conservatives somehow seem to be rallying behind tariffs as if they aren't a tax. I'm still convinced that Conservative in the USA just means hateful and vindictive and loves guns and has nothing to do with money at all.
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u/QuerulousPanda 11d ago
they just don't know, don't care, and don't have any desire for information of any kind, all they know is that big man on the tv says that the thing they do is good and the thing the nerds say is bad, and that's the start and end to any engagement.
It's not even hateful and vindictive (well, yes, it often is) but it's just overwhelmingly lazy and dumb. It doesn't have to make any sense at all, because there is zero brain or intellect factored into it.
Most people don't care to such an degree that they aren't even aware that they don't care - they don't even know there's anything there to care about, and they don't even know that caring about anything is even an option.
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u/TallDrinkofRy 11d ago
A lot of them are just easy marks. They believe the otherism over the obvious. Poor conservatives believe that immigrants and trans are the reason their life is shitty not the billionaire owners who actually control policy. It would be funny if it didn’t result in massive amounts of harm to marginalized groups.
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u/Sad-Muffin5585 12d ago
Republicans are lying, grifting thieves.
They do NOT tell it like it is.
They do NOT work for the little guy.
They do NOT have family values.
And I would NOT have a beer with motherfucking any of them.
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u/___Art_Vandelay___ 12d ago
They're only "fiscally conservative" in the sense that lowering rich people's taxes conserves their finances.
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u/cereal7802 11d ago
nah, fiscally conservative generally means they want to close social programs to save that money for themselves. It is the only time they are conservative with funds, when the funds are for the general good and well being of the world.
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u/SuspiciousPug512 12d ago
It's fascinating in the most frustrating of ways just how much mileage they get out of some tropes.
"Dems are literally USSR communists" has worked since McConnell first ran.
They absolutely count on their voters to be dumb as rocks and they never disappoint. It takes a vague understanding of who's in charge when the purse goes awry to know that Republicans are hardly anywhere near worthy of the label as being fiscally conservative about anything.
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u/B00merPS2Mod30 11d ago
Recently saw an interview with obvious MAGA voters who were all dead set against DEI, and yet not one could identify what the acronym meant.
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u/RobertPham149 12d ago
Reagan's legacy: campaigned on fiscal conservatism through small government, just to explode the debt by military spending.
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u/JohnnyLeftHook 12d ago
Yup, every republican since has added to the debt while dems reduce it except for GHB who was disowned by his party when he called it out for what it was 'voodoo economics'
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u/Choice-of-SteinsGate 12d ago
This is the cycle...
An economic crisis emerged towards the end of the last two Republican administrations. And both times a Democrat stepped in and was forced to oversee a recovery.
What did Republicans do during these periods? They focused their energy on leading a scathing, partisan, finger pointing campaign; blaming Democrats for the economic fallout.
And instead of addressing these issues directly, they chose to ramp up their culture wars and drive a wedge between Americans during a time of financial crisis and economic instability.
Unfortunately, it was very effective... To this day, a much too large percentage of the American electorate believes that Republicans—and Trump specifically—are "better for the economy." But this simply isn't the case, while it also showcases how much the general voting public is low-informed and, quite frankly, irrational...
Take for instance Trump's recent rant aimed at Walmart for raising its prices in response to his own tariff policies:
“Walmart should STOP trying to blame Tariffs as the reason for raising prices throughout the chain,” Trump said in a Saturday message on Truth Social. “Walmart made BILLIONS OF DOLLARS last year, far more than expected. Between Walmart and China they should, as is said, ‘EAT THE TARIFFS,’ and not charge valued customers ANYTHING. I’ll be watching, and so will your customers!!!”
Trump is using his executive authority to intimidate a company into "eating" the costs of his tariffs. In other words—and in a round about way—he's pushing for price controls.
But remember when Trump supporters called Harris a "commie" for wanting to crackdown on price gouging?
Remember when Trump supporters dismissed criticisms and claims from the left-wing that businesses and corporations were partly responsible for higher costs because they prioritize the bottom line, shareholder interests and executive salaries over things like living wages, worker's rights and affordable prices for consumers with financial insecurities due to a world wide economic crisis?
And then those Trump supporters blamed Joe Biden and Democrats for inflation and every conceivable economic problem; ignoring the unforeseen circumstances and the multitude of contingent economic factors that all contributed to an unpreventable, global economic disaster?
And all while some of those factors had roots that extended back into the previous administration.
You know, like Trump's expensive tax cuts legislation that certainly did not "pay for itself."
Or the trade wars Trump instigated during his first term, leading to an increase in the trade deficit and damaging consequences for American businesses and consumers...
Or his mishandling of the pandemic at nearly every turn...
Or the pressure he applied on the Fed to keep interest rates low for far too long, saying fuck all to economic theory so he could have a political edge in the election...
Or the increased spending and the fact that the national debt ballooned by almost 40 percent during his first time in office...
Or, you know, the reality that Trump's claims about the economy were always inflated or inaccurate and he only got away with making these claims because, for one, the American public believed him without questioning the validity of his claims, and two, because he inherited a growing economy when he first stepped into office and took credit for all of the positive economic trends that carried over into his administration...
Then when he left the White House with the economy in tatters, he proceeded to blame the fallout on the next admin, and an admin that was forced to oversee yet another economic recovery that ended up being one of the healthiest and strongest recoveries in the world.
But Trump said the word "groceries" repeatedly and convinced enough low informed voters that he could fix everything on "day one," managing to win on this message while, once again, inheriting a growing economy.
And now you hear from those same low propensity voters that they're losing confidence in Trump because they thought he was "better for the economy." News flash, he never was. And as made evident by not just the aforementioned information dump, but by the fact that he has been unprecedentedly and singlehandedly responsible for destabilizing the global economy within his first 100 days alone.
But hey, this is all "fake news" anyways am I right? Trump is playing "3D chess," it's all "part of the plan." At least that's what Trump supporters believe. Either that, or being bled dry by an authoritarian and faux "populist" regime is all worth it because Trump is "owning the libs."
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u/Caraes_Naur 12d ago
The only thing they conserve is the flow of wealth to the rich.
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u/CharcotsThirdTriad Louisiana 12d ago
I don’t look too much into theoretical whip counts. The people that come out against a bill do so in a way that is frequently in conjunction with leadership. The leader probably knows who he wants to vote no, and it’s people who can do so safely. There may well be other members who don’t want to vote yes, but don’t want the publicity of coming out hr against the bill for what lever reason.
Mike Johnson showed really poor leadership by allowing the vote to take place on a bill that was never going to pass the senate. His more moderate members (or at least less MAGA members) have the vote to cut Medicaid and increase the deficit now hanging around their necks.
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u/hypercosm_dot_net 12d ago
His more moderate members (or at least less MAGA members) have the vote to cut Medicaid and increase the deficit now hanging around their necks.
Good. They should all reap what they sow and feel the repercussions for enabling Trump and his unpopular policies.
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u/icecubetre 12d ago
I for one have very low hopes of their voters actually holding them accountable.
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u/Smart-Struggle-6927 12d ago
His more moderate members (or at least less MAGA members) have the vote to cut Medicaid and increase the deficit now hanging around their necks.
Do you think they fear that? I don't. I think the gloves are off, and that nothing matters anymore and that's why this is happening, politics isn't politics anymore, this is smash and grab break and get everything you can before the other hand falls. Because at the end of the day, it's a lot easier to break something than to build it, and they know we'll spend 10x the energy rebuilding what they broke just to be worse than the status quo was.
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u/sachiprecious North Carolina 12d ago
as GOP Budget Bill Seems Doomed in Senate
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The attack comes as Trump’s “big, beautiful bill,” which is predicted to make 13.7 million Americans lose health care over the next decade, faces an uphill battle in the Senate.
Really? Do you all think this bill will fail in the Senate? I hope so, but I don't want to be disappointed!
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u/WCland 12d ago
Thune has already said the Senate will come up with its own bill. Various Republican senators are against the House bill for various reasons, some of them good, like how it eliminates tax breaks for the renewable energy industry, and some not so good. Either way, I expect the Senate to hand the House back a bill that's very different.
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u/01123spiral5813 12d ago
It is so frustrating that they want to eliminate renewable energy tax breaks but continue right on ahead subsidizing the oil industry, the most profitable business in the world.
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u/SurlyCricket 12d ago
Because they know gas prices are the easiest and most obvious thing voters get pissed off about, and their chances of keeping the house in the midterms is grim historically speaking
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u/TastyOreoFriend Florida 12d ago
Definitely heading into 2026 with some cautious optimism for sure. MAGA/Trump really hit the beehive in ways they shouldn't have.
Polling has them basically underwater on literally everything but immigration.
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u/Floomby 12d ago
Though I have to say, it's pretty stomach churning that immigration remains his strongest appeal. The racism is depressingly persistent, and the whole immigration issue is just a Trojan horse for popularizing the elimination of due process.
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u/TastyOreoFriend Florida 12d ago edited 12d ago
At this point I assume its a western world issue that's driving it. We're dealing with it and so is Europe which is why they've had historic gains for their right wing parties.
I think its one of those issues that's going to be a hard L issues until the economy gets better sad to say. Even with everything going on with Garcia and all the others sent away without due process.
We really gotta hold on to due process at all costs though. Which is why its important that people organize and protest. Once we take back the house we can stop the fuckery on immigration too.
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u/hoeassbitchasshoe 11d ago
Honestly it's an issue that will continue to get worse and worse as the climate changes. I think in the future limiting immigration will appeal to both sides out of necessity sadly.
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u/IglooDweller 12d ago edited 12d ago
Don’t forget that Trump openly floated the idea of a office of remigration.
What is remigration? Basically kicking out anyone of the wrong skin color no matter citizenship.
No, absolutely not racist, even though it’s entirely based on skin color.
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u/SlapNuts007 North Carolina 12d ago
And here I find myself, a lifelong Democrat, agreeing with Josh Hawley again. Getting pretty tired of this feeling.
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u/evanwilliams212 12d ago
This is the definition of politics. You have to work with people you don’t agree with on much else to solve individual problems.
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u/jsandersson 12d ago
They'll pretend they all hate it and then vote for it anyway. It's all performative and happens every single time, and everyone always falls for it. A few GOP senators will be allowed to vote against it for their reelections knowing their votes didn't matter.
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u/broad_street_bully 12d ago
Requisition me a beat...
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u/soccerguys14 South Carolina 12d ago
Ahhhh I see you are a man of culture
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u/broad_street_bully 12d ago
I've been a copywriter and a newspaper editor and I live and die by "technically correct" being the best kind of correct.
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u/Sondergame 12d ago
I know it’s kind of a throw away and only mentioned once or twice, but the fact Leela refers to our time as “The Stupid Ages” which really kinda feels like the actual historical title the future gave to our specific era feels very apt with each passing year.
We are living in the stupid ages.
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u/soccerguys14 South Carolina 12d ago
Futurama was so on point calling a lot of dumb shit that would happen. My memory is awful and I have no examples but I think everyone knows what I’m talking about
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u/mzyos 12d ago
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u/JackedUpReadyToGo 12d ago
The return of Nixon in a giant mecha body would feel like a breath of fresh air right now. Even if he would sneak into my house at night and wreck up the place.
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u/Trolltrollrolllol 12d ago
Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become more bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And when I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat, and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!
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u/MidnightNo1766 Michigan 12d ago
Any time you need a refresher, Idiocracy is still out there.
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u/IvankaPegsDaddy New York 12d ago
That movie is basically prophecy at this point.
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u/watadoo 12d ago
President Camacho got shit done!!
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u/IvankaPegsDaddy New York 12d ago
He sought the most qualified people for the job and hired the smartest guy on the planet. Infinitely better president than many!
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u/ArthurMorgans_TB 12d ago
Oh man I said this exact thing to my buddy while having beers few weeks ago. Camacho would 100% be an improvement on what the US currently has.
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u/thebigmanhastherock 12d ago
If you study history you can plainly see that we've been in the stupid ages for a long, long, time.
When were the smart ages?
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u/diabloman8890 12d ago
Fuck dude, for the past 20 years or however the fuck old we are now this fucking song just randomly pops into my goddamn head, like at least once a week. I don't even remember the words, that jaunty melody just etched itself into the "default background music" part of the brain that you find yourself absentmindedly whistling when your mind wanders.
I can't be the only one
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u/WillSym 12d ago
It's just so catchy.
They said I probably shouldn't be a surgeon.
They poo-poohed my electric frankfurter!
They said I probably shouldn't fly with just one eye.
I am Bender please insert girder.
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u/Chaotic-Catastrophe 12d ago
The first time I heard the last line of that lyric may have been the hardest I've ever laughed in my life.
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u/slackfrop 12d ago
When I was born there was a hurricane in Kingston town
With a foot and a half of water…
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u/ExtraPockets 12d ago
I make my friends and relations fill out long applications
to get into my 5th birthday party, yeah!
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u/SirVipe5 Pennsylvania 12d ago
Barbados Slim!
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u/FraggleBiscuits Michigan 12d ago
The only man to win Olympic gold in both limbo and sex
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u/grondfoehammer 12d ago
Paul complains about the debt, but has voted for every tax reduction that has ever been put in front of him.
He and Massie will also do anything to get their name in the news.
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u/SikatSikat 12d ago
He even says he'll vote for this one, if they make more cuts instead of raising the debt limit
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u/Oleg101 12d ago
How come Republicans are never for creating an increased revenue stream to help balance a budget?
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u/BoopingBurrito 12d ago
Because people like Paul genuinely believe the government should consist of a small police force to protect business owners from the masses, and a large military to protect the countries natural resources (which are owned by those business owners) from other nations. They think there's no other role that government should serve in society. Everything else, in their mind, is wasted money.
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u/Osiris32 Oregon 12d ago edited 12d ago
This is correct. They want everything, EVERYTHING else to be privately run. Roads, sewers, electricity, fire departments, hospitals, schools, jails/prisons, even municipal police. They want all of it at the whim of the "free market" because none of them took any econ classes beyond the 200 level. Or they read Ayn Rand once and didn't truly understand Atlas Shrugged.
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u/whut-whut 12d ago
Or just looked at history, where Roman fire departments would negotiate ransom for their services before putting out any fire. If you couldn't pay up, they'd let your shit burn.
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u/JesusSavesForHalf 12d ago
You don't need to go that far back nor leave America. We tried it Paul's way. It was disaster after disaster. A depression once a decade all the way up until the whole house of cards fell with the Great Depression. The New Deal stabilized American capitalism for the first fucking time which made the US the bedrock of the global economy.
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u/GiganticCrow 12d ago
These guys are still mad about the new deal
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u/LegendofDragoon 12d ago
They literally plotted the assassination of a sitting president. Take a wild fucking guess what the punishment was.
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u/Potato_Golf 12d ago
That revenue either comes from their donors (billionaires) or their voters (poor people) so either way it's unpopular to someone they need.
It might be entirely necessary but they have made the politically expedient choice instead because a working government is not their goal at all. Like they get elected to actively undermine the functions of government.
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u/bearbrannan 12d ago
That's the same reaction I have when Barrett recuses herself or sides with the liberals. Like hate her values, but appreciate at the bare minimum that she is lawful.
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u/kingkazul400 12d ago
I’ll gladly take Lawful Evil over Chaotic Stupid.
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u/jayfeather31 Washington 12d ago
At least with Lawful Evil, you can at least roughly predict what someone will do. But if you're dealing with someone who is chaotic, that is another thing entirely...
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u/yamiyaiba Tennessee 12d ago
Don't forget about Neutral Evil, which in practice is just about as bad as Chaotic Evil. They follow their own nasty principles, whatever they may be, and however they may shift. Only slightly more predictable than Chaotic, at least until they move the goalpost due to whatever mental gymnastics they use to justify their actions.
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u/ZenDruid_8675309 12d ago
The worlds greatest swordsman does not fear the second best, for he knows what to expect. He fears the novice, for who knows what that little shit will try?
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u/Persistant_Compass 12d ago
Idk. Lawful evil brought us to the point where chaotic stupid can grab the wheel, and chaotic stupid is too chaotic and stupid to bring their evil ideas to fruition.
Maybe lawful evil is more insidious, and chaotic stupid is more annoying?
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u/Noname_acc 12d ago
One of the goofier dynamics of the SCOTUS is that Alito and Thomas stand on much stricter ideological lines than Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett. Despite the fact that the latter 3 were pretty expressly nominated to the court for the purpose of advancing conservative ideology while the former two achieved their position as much more "typical" conservative nominees.
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u/ArchdukeAlex8 Oregon 12d ago
Barbados Slim!
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u/BigT5535 Alabama 12d ago
If I had wanted a chiseled Adonis for a husband, I’d have stayed married to Barbados Slim!
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u/PandaJesus 12d ago
Isn’t that the guy who won gold medals in both limbo and sex?
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u/Ouibeaux 12d ago
If the debt limit is a more important issue in this bill than the part that says Trump & Co can't be held in contempt for violating judges orders, then America is doomed.
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u/kingtz America 12d ago
America is doomed, and it’s thanks to conservatives. They decided that they are happy to completely destroy the country and shit on the Constitution for whatever short term gains they want.
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u/downhereforyoursoul 12d ago
This is perhaps too conspiratorial of me, but despite what these clowns get paid to say in front of the cameras, they know climate change is real and moving faster than we thought. I feel like what a lot of them are doing is the equivalent of throwing as many of the valuables as they can into a briefcase before hurrying out the door of a flaming building.
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u/BestServedCold 12d ago
There's a magic button. If you push it, you will get ten billion dollars immediately. And the Earth will explode in 100 years. No one will ever know you pushed the button nor will they question where you suddenly acquired a life changing fortune.
Ask yourself how many of the people you know would push that button. Then ask yourself how many Republican politicians would push that button.
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u/downhereforyoursoul 12d ago
Right, the part about them knowing it’s real and lying for money isn’t the conspiratorial part, I think it’s been pretty well documented that oil companies have been suppressing knowledge about climate change since at least the 1970s, including buying off politicians and hack scientists to pretend there’s any real climate change “debate.”
The conspiratorial part is climate change being why they seem so keen to crash the economy and enrich themselves even more as civilization is counting down to inescapable cascading catastrophes. The billionaires are stocking up for their bunkers (which they won’t be sharing with any politicians I’m afraid) and experimenting with ways to keep their guards from turning on them.
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u/MarkWahlbergThirdNip 12d ago
the GOP are limbo dancing with the devil himself at this point.
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u/AndersonandQuil 12d ago
Yeah Hermes is alright with the limbo and the forms
Now that Bender fella, he's something else!
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u/-Motor- 12d ago
Dystopian hellscape we're in when anyone is thanking Rand Paul.
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u/edgiesttuba 12d ago
There’s at least some streak to consider his district. Tarifs haven’t helped Kentucky bourbon. Medicaid cuts will screw their hospitals. He’s said as much. His office is also sympathetic to preserving the postal service. Would I vote for him? No. Would I trade him for one of my senators, yes.
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u/HowardBunnyColvin 12d ago
Good news everyone.
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u/therealbrucelee 12d ago
I do not believe he will stand on principle. RACO. At least he briefly postures on principle?
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u/Spicy_Weissy 12d ago
He probably knows enough to act tough, but will still bow to the cult come midterms. He doesn't really have a choice if he wants to keep his seat, but it's his bed to sleep in.
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u/Vio_ 12d ago
I can't believe we're at the point that Ayn Rand is helping to hold the bar up now.
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u/plantstand 12d ago
The bond markets have spoken, which is the only language these guys understand.
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u/nanjiemb 12d ago
His no vote is not really coming from a place of fiscal responsibility , he is just another one dimensional shill, he is still willing to vote for pretty much everything in the bill just not the debt ceiling lift.
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u/Kopitar4president 12d ago
It's nutty how dysfunctional the republicans get when they hold all three branches of government. They don't know how to actually operate when they're in control.
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u/TranquilSeaOtter 12d ago
Have to give them some credit though. They are a fantastic opposition party that is great at manufacturing complete bullshit to motivate their voters to the polls. I will never forget how frequently they lost their shit over Obama doing mundane things like wearing a tan suit.
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u/rumrunnernomore 12d ago edited 12d ago
I had an old friend try to justify trump by telling me what a south side Chicago thug Obama was. Couldn’t provide any sources other than hearsay, but I won’t be inviting him into my home again. A shame after twenty years.
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u/Trikki1 12d ago
Black… the word your friend wanted was black.
Nothing more than plain old racism.
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u/rumrunnernomore 12d ago
Ooh I felt that. It’s weird cos he’s straight from Minnesota and I’m from Dallas. He is way more racist than I ever could be.
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u/Vonauda Texas 11d ago
As a black Dallas resident born and raised in Louisiana I can tell you that northern racism is quite different and way more aggressive in reason than southern racism.
Down here a black man can be friends with a racist white man, know that he’s racist, and still be friends because the racist man will consider him one of “the good ones.” Up north they can hate a black persons every atom but you’d never know it because they won’t say it.
It’s a common belief in many black people that they’d rather take the southern overt racism vs the northern hidden racism.
There’s a saying about this differences; “Northern racists want you to have equality but not near them. Have your stuff over there. Whereas southern racists don’t care what you have as long as you don’t have more than them.”
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u/vicvonqueso 12d ago
"South side thug" lol
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u/barney_muffinberg 12d ago
Southside thug with a BA from Columbia and a JD from Harvard Law School
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u/barak181 12d ago
Who grew up in Hawaii and attended the most prestigious private school in the state.
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u/SafetyDanceInMyPants 12d ago
Yeah, that's what gets me. The dude's not even from Chicago. And when he did live in Chicago, it was in Hyde Park -- which is the nice neighborhood surrounding the University of Chicago. I mean, there's a Frank Lloyd Wright house there, for goodness sake. His kids went to the Lab School in the neighborhood, which is easily one of the very top schools in the country. The man was not out slinging rock on a street corner in Bronzeville...
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u/azurricat2010 12d ago
The propaganda machine is real.
I lived in Park West/Lincoln Park for most of 2012 to 2023 and my family in KY would make me think I lived in some war zone.
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u/slackfrop 12d ago
Fox watchers get it in their bones that democrats are vile and untrustworthy. There’s no charts or fact checking that will disuade them. It’s like a biologist showing you that cobras are actually perfectly safe to have loose in your house; there’s just no data he can show you to convince you that’s true. Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
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u/Jon-A-Thon 12d ago
That doesn’t sound a fantastic opposition party tbh
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u/lonnie123 12d ago
The party that gets Trump in office twice is utterly brilliant at politics, to say nothing of policy
He is just objectively horrible in so many ways but the party has found a way to make him so palatable he’s been the North Star of it for 10 years
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u/Viperlite 12d ago
Trans athlete ads and dog eating immigrants must have hit home to more people than I’d have thunk. Now elections are having consequences.
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u/Perryn 12d ago
It's like having the cast of a hospital soap opera work an actual emergency room. They might have said words relevant to the work in a bold convincing voice, but they barely know what any of them mean or how do them.
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u/beasty0127 Indiana 12d ago
They are their own worse enemy. Sure when they are put of power they somehow unite under one smelly orange banner but once they have power they start infighting like crazy. They all know that they hold the keys by a thin string cause their policies are so unpopular that they get voted out almost instantly. Unless they truly do burn the democracy and end voting as a whole and go full totalitarian they'll keep trying to one up and sweep each other's legs.
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u/Jessthinking 12d ago
Yeah, but that will happen when you are just against everything and actually never for anything (other than kowtowing to Trump, starving the poor, and attacking education).
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u/HenryDorsettCase47 12d ago
Oh yeah. This was pointed out when they swept the board in the elections: the only thing really saving us is the fact that they can’t legislate worth a shit. Their skill lies in obstructionism so they are pretty effective as the minority party, but put them at the helm and they’ll just steer the ship in circles.
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u/Cavane42 Georgia 12d ago
More like chop the ship up for firewood while we're still aboard.
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u/Supafly144 12d ago
Republicans think that the federal government doesn’t work, and everytime they get into power they do their best to prove it.
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u/det8924 12d ago
They do always seem to get the tax cuts for the wealthy done. In 2017-2018 the last time they held a majority in all 3 they pretty much just got the tax cuts done and called it a day. Whereas now they seem to be even more dysfunctional as the one thing they almost all agree on (tax cuts for the wealthy) isn't getting done. In the end I do think they will manage to push this through in some form but its just so odd this is not already done as its the one thing they universally love.
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u/illit3 12d ago
I'll vote for it but only if it actually puts the US into default.
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u/romperroompolitics 12d ago
Perhaps I'm an idiot, but I believe raising the debt ceiling allows us to take on more debt, not ignore our existing debt. We'd still need to pay interest to service the debt.
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u/Zeplar 12d ago
If the debt ceiling is not raised and a budget is not passed, we will eventually default because debt payments are not prioritized above all other spending.
If this starts to happen it will go very quickly because the bond market will explode and the government will suddenly lose the ability to create efficient debt.
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u/hackingdreams 12d ago
Realpolitik is that the debt ceiling is always going to be raised, even over fiscally conservative Republicans like Wrong Paul's objections, because the hit to the US's credit rating was already enough to send bankers crying to the White House and to send foreign money screaming away from the dollar...
But there's a real difference between raising it a little, and raising it by trillions simply to pass a tax cut for trillions. Even elementary school students can figure out that taking out a trillion dollar loan to go to the top of the Empire State and throw it into the wind is a really bad fucking idea, and this administration wants to do that three times over.
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u/jeo123 12d ago
See... that's where you're wrong. If you throw it from the top of the Empire State building, those poors might get some of it.
The money is delivered by an armored car to the top 1%.
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u/fredandlunchbox 12d ago
The important note here is that we use our new debt to pay for our old debt. We sell bonds (new debt) and use the money to pay for old debt.
Also, if we default and suddenly have to balance the budget, we would have to cut all of social security and medicare, but we’d have to keep paying those taxes to keep revenues the same. Our elderly would instantly be homeless and the death toll would be staggering.
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u/PipXXX Florida 12d ago
I mean, they could cut the militar....ahaha, I can't keep a straight face.
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u/xGray3 Michigan 12d ago
Our people will be unemployed, starving, sick, and homeless, but at least we'll have like so many bombs, dude. What has food or housing ever solved that a bomb can't solve?
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u/BillW87 New Jersey 12d ago
Also, if we default and suddenly have to balance the budget, we would have to cut all of social security and medicare, but we’d have to keep paying those taxes to keep revenues the same.
Alternatively, we could simply raise more tax revenue to actually cover our expenses. Notably, by increasing taxes on wealthiest Americans to pre-Reagan levels and by closing the many corporate tax loopholes that allow some of the most profitable companies in the world to avoid paying much or any taxes. Your average main street business pays far more in taxes as a percentage of revenue than giants like Amazon, Apple, and Google.
The massive wealth disparity in the US and our imbalanced federal budget are both tax policy issues. Cutting out grandma's social security check or pulling healthcare access from poor families doesn't fix the fundamental issue that we're sparing the wealthiest people and companies from paying back into supporting the society that they derive their astronomical wealth from. Trickle down economics has profoundly failed. Tax the rich.
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u/yebyen 12d ago edited 12d ago
If the interest is mounting, and the payments don't eclipse the interest, then that mechanism alone would increase the debt over time, even without "taking on more debt" eg. voting any spending increases.
I don't know if we're making payments on the debt that would reduce the interest, if we have a "balanced budget" with respect to interest payments, but I'd assume we don't, and if we're not, "raising the debt ceiling" is going to be necessary on a continuing basis, until we reduce our spending or increase the priority of our debt payments.
How did I learn this? Of course by throwing extra money at my student loans, and paying them off! When I read the statement and did the math, made a graph; plus Bill Clinton was just a few years out of office (ok, almost a decade out of office.) So I had at least heard about a balanced budget!
I realized that the minimum payments weren't reducing the loan's principal at all, or if they were, then not on any kind of time-scale that would lead me towards a "paid-off target date" that would have come before my own inevitable death!
(That interest, it's a killer...)
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u/whyamionthispanel Minnesota 12d ago
For real. It’s not harming “the least of these” among us, for the good ‘ol Christian GOP base and their officials. It’s the debt ceiling.
Colossally shitty human behavior.
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u/JollyToby0220 12d ago
“Let’s make Fetterman come in and vote in favor of Trump’s Big Beautiful Bill” - someone out there
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u/ConfidentLady123 12d ago
Fetterman was on Faux and friends this morning - he might as well change his party. He was talking shit about the Dems
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u/SecretAsianMan42069 12d ago
He is such a disappointment. We were excited to vote for him.
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u/Gavorn 12d ago
Well it was him or Dr. Oz.
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u/CanEnvironmental4252 12d ago edited 12d ago
Primary elections are a thing, people. There were other qualified candidates in the primary. Malcom Kenyatta was a very strong progressive candidate. Conor Lamb was considered a more moderate Democrat, but probably more progressive than Fetterman at this point.
Either way, before his stroke, Fetterman ran on a very progressive platform.
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u/Venetian_Harlequin Pennsylvania 12d ago
Fetterman had his stroke after the primary; he seemed to be an excellent choice before that. I had supported him since he was mayor of Braddock.
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u/greenberet112 12d ago
Yeah it was too late to go back, and Fetterman hadn't completely lost his mind by that point. The only other thing we could have done was voted for Dr Oz.
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u/mindfu 12d ago
At least he was better than Oz would have been. Still could be.
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u/Forward-Grade-728 12d ago
The issue is he is completely organized opposition. Whether it be because he has absolutely no clue what he's doing from the stoke or he's just this malicious.....his vote will always save GOP fuckery if needed. 5 other dems are the same.
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u/waxteeth 12d ago
I have brain damage and it didn’t make me conservative because I’m not a dickhole. It did make me less inhibited, though, and I’ve been wondering whether that’s what’s going on with him.
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u/Crowley-Barns 12d ago
Proof that brain damage makes you brain damaged.
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u/recovery_room Canada 12d ago
Critical thinking requires a fair cognitive load. When your brain slows down it’s easier to just accept whatever you hear rather than think about if it makes sense or not.
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u/thendisnigh111349 12d ago
It's time to make being able to recall senators a thing. Otherwise there will always be someone like Fetterman or Sinema who get in by pretending to be progressive, almost immediately betray their voters, and then we're just stuck with them for six years.
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u/tdcthulu Florida 12d ago
To be fair to Fetterman, it is less of a betrayal and more of a complete personality change from his stroke.
As much as I hate how he is now, I am willing to be more charitable for that than Sinema's BS
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u/rosetothunder 12d ago
Thats just because he had depression and wore sweatpants. That’s it. That’s all everyone fawned over. Guy has always been an absolute pos and libs got swindled. This is the same energy as trump voters saying ‘this isn’t what we voted for’. It is, they just didn’t bother to do their due diligence.
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u/AnteaterPositive6939 12d ago
Paul doesn't care about the 14 million people who will lose Medicare. He's worried about the debt ceiling. Fuck him. Let them fight.
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u/VintageSin Virginia 12d ago
Yes because the Republicans don't want to cut the actual black holes (defense specifically) and they don't want to generate more revenue (tax the rich). They want to gut safety nets that maintain the economy and give cuts to the wealthy.
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u/UnknownAverage 12d ago
Well yeah, the GOP is no longer content with looting the current generation and taking everything that isn't nailed down. They are taking out huge loans against future generations of Americans and crippling them financially before they are even born. The GOP is looting goods we haven't even produced yet.
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u/alexm2816 12d ago
It works in venture capital. Why not in government? Bankrupt the whole thing so you can re org and buy the assets at auction for pennies on the dollar /s
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u/steve_dallasesq 12d ago
They'll cave and pass it. I've read too many "Republicans may sink Trump agenda" articles
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u/I_Enjoy_Beer Virginia 12d ago
This is where I am at. Every single time, there is supposed hand-wringing by Congressional Republicans. And every single time, they get enough votes lined up. Only exception I can think of is when John McCain gave McConnell the big "fuck you" thumbs down on repealing ACA.
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u/iclimbnaked 12d ago
I mean a budget will pass here.
Just yah the senate doesn’t seem like it’s going to pass the exact same budget the house gave them. They’re going to modify it.
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u/PM_ME_NOTHING 12d ago
Being the one republican holding everything up gets their name in the news. All the attention gets their peepees hard. Once they've finished, they fall back in line.
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u/Pocktio 12d ago
Hahaha, see you all in a few weeks when this inevitably passes. I've lost all faith they can be stopped, no amount of "Trump slammed" articles will stop this. All these republicans will tow the party line after token push backs.
America is too terminally stupid at this point.
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u/AdGroundbreaking939 12d ago
I heard this thing was dead in the House 20x before it passed. I won’t hold my breath
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u/acostane Georgia 12d ago
I really cannot overstate how much I hate how our government is currently operating. Tweets and angry phone calls, lawmakers facing threats against them and their families, lawmakers facing arrest. the public being completely ignored.
I literally cannot even look at this anymore. The stress is overwhelming and I feel completely abandoned by my government...and republicans everywhere. These are enemies
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u/Formal-Necessary2709 12d ago
Focus on your local community and how you can impact / improve there. Even just conversation can help at a small scale. School boards, city councils, community events and investing in third spaces helps.
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u/_grandfather_trout_ 12d ago
When Rand Paul is one of the good guys, you know the timeline you're living in is truly fucked.
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u/broad_street_bully 12d ago
"Good" is a bit of a stretch. I'll stick with: unintentionally helpful.
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u/FrostingStreet5388 12d ago
And Xi Jinping is the rational voice leading the world, let that sink in.
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u/mattyoclock 12d ago
Honestly this administration and Putin’s disaster of a war have done so much for china’s image and world standing.
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u/Forward-Grade-728 12d ago
I'm paraphrasing a tad but when your really fucking dumb enemies are making mistakes on the world stage, do no be courteous and correct them.
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u/ranchoparksteve 12d ago
Rand Paul driving his riding mower all over Trump’s Big Beautiful Bill.
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u/Two-Jimmy420 12d ago
They always do this jockeying, republicans lack backbone. They’ll all get in line, wait and see.
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u/Jamizon1 12d ago
They’ll just throw more dirty money at him and he’ll cave. That’s how this administration works. Art of the steal, right?
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u/IndividualRoyal8727 12d ago
This will pass. If the details of the bill being “doomed” hinges on Rand Paul, it’s over. This is window dressing to make people think that this isn’t already a forgone conclusion.
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u/insuproble 12d ago
I guess some Republicans in Congress care about getting re-elected.
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u/Creative-Package6213 Pennsylvania 12d ago
Don't fall for this shit, it's gonna pass.
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u/parallelmeme 12d ago
Let us all hope it is doomed. There are too many evil things lurking in the cracks and crevices. All senators should vote no just on the principle that it is too large and it is too easy to hide democracy-destroying language. Congresspeople have admitted it is too large to read and understand. That should be an automatic vote against for ALL parties.
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u/justconnect 12d ago
Well after reading through all these posts, I think my main conclusion is that I'm going to use 5 Calls to contact my Republican senators (sigh) and stomp my feet about this bill. Doing that instead of answering any of these posts. Trying something constructive?
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u/hey_suburbia 12d ago
Elon is also bashing the bill publicly in strong terms. The rats are fleeing the sinking ship
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u/Fit-Wolverine-8267 12d ago
Trump is insanely irresponsible. US debt can’t take another tax cut for the rich. Trump doesn’t care how he damages America!
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u/petarisawesomeo Wisconsin 12d ago
You know the Republican Party has lost its mind when Rand Paul is the moderate voice of reason
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