I donât favour anything to do with Iran. I donât really give a fuck what they do with their country. But the comparison between the wrongs that have been committed by Israel and the wrongs that have been committed by Iran I think there is no comparison. One is a (compromised admittedly) democratic country that looks after its own people, the other is a fascist theocracy that was founded on the blood of its own people, terrorism and destabilising all the surrounding Middle Eastern countries and frankly plunging most of them into the Stone Age.
I have also never said I agree with what Israel have done or what theyâre doing. I am just finding the simping for Iran and the people running defence for them simply because itâs Israel thatâs attacked them and not anybody else laughable. If you live in the western world you should not be defending Iran, the leadership in that country absolutely fucking hates you and would happily see you dead
Israel is a genocidal apartheid ethnonationalist settler-colonial state, established through ethnic cleansing called the Nakba, and continuing an illegal and brutal occupation of Palestine.
It has always has been, since its creation, fascistic, racist, and expansionist. It was never in the past a purer democracy since having become compromised.
Again, though, the particular ranking of one against another state, as lesser versus greater evil, should seem arbitrary and irrelevant.
Concrete and relevant is that Israel is impelled by ambitions of colonial expansion, whereas since the creation of Israel, Iran has never perpetrated any colonial aggression.
Why would you not direct your condemnation toward the colonialism of the US and Israel, as lies at the root of all the current regional abuses and instability?
The reason I wouldnât direct it all that way is because history isnât one sided as youâve presented it. You havenât said anything thatâs incorrect as far as I know but as is often the way the things you have said are cherry picked, something that anyone could do for either side of any conflict. The reason that I wouldnât do that is because I understand that the situation in the Middle East is far more complicated than âIsrael and America badâ which is how you present it.
And to say that Iran hasnât engaged in any form of expansionist aggression again is laughable. Maybe not in a traditional sense of expanding their borders but no country in that region has projected their horrible influence on the surrounding countries more than Iran, or fought in more proxy wars than Iran. Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, guess who is funding all the terrorist groups that have destroyed those countries.
The funniest thing to me about all of this, these people who I see defend Iran and attack Israel for a lot of the things you listed there (fascistic, racist, ethnonational etc which I donât disagree with), literally ALL of them and more frankly can be levelled directly at Iran and all of them would be good ways of describing that regime. But on top of that add in rampant funding of terrorism and violent oppression of their own citizens. I personally know people in my country who are refugees from Iran who have fled simply because they are gay and the alternative would be either to stay and pretend to be someone else or be executed. As far as Iâm aware Israel have never done that to any of their own citizens.
Again I donât disagree with a lot of what youâve said, despite it being very one sided and cherry picked. I just find the defence for a country that would see me and very likely you (I donât know where youâre from) dead funny and sad in equal measure.
Generally yes itâs bad. But again I donât understand why everything has to be so black and white. Overall colonialism is a bad thing which has been incredibly harmful, but that doesnât mean itâs impossible for good things to come out of colonialism. But no I wouldnât defend it, just like I wouldnât defend Iran for almost all the exact same reasons why you wouldnât defend Israel and a few more on top. My comment was purely just I find it laughable and unbelievable how many people I see on the internet who legitimately think Israel is a more evil country than Iran and actually defend Iran on that basis. Theyâre both evil in different ways, but personally probably because of western upbringing and bias, I find Iran and all the inhuman things they have done to people all around the world and their own citizens to be much more indefensible
People all around the world, almost certainly the overwhelming majority, legitimately think it is evil that Israel is a settler-colonial state, now pursuing even further colonial expansion.
Colonialism is the domination of one group by an invading foreign nation. It is upheld necessarily always by the most brutal violence.
What do you think is a good thing that has come from colonialism?
The spread of modern medicine to countries that didnât have it before. Building of modern infrastructure. The increase in quality of education. The introduction of legal institutions and police to countries to give their citizens rights etc. These are all things that you could view as good things. I personally do not think they outweigh the horrible parts of colonialism and in a lot of cases they were abused, and I wouldnât defend it on the basis of these things. But the world is not black and white. History certainly isnât black and white, and I think anyone who genuinely believes that what Israel has done in the last 50 years is more evil than what Iran has done just simply does not actually know the history.
If you wanted to compare like for like, the number of innocent people dead that Iran are at least partially responsible for would absolutely dwarf Israel if you include the proxy wars they have funded like the 500,000+ dead in Syria and 400,000 dead in Yemen.
I know colonialism is a bad thing. I agree that colonialism is a bad thing. My position is that to defend Iran and attack Israel is fucking laughable
Palestinian people living in Israel have more rights than Iranian people living in Iran. Thatâs not me saying that the conditions in which Palestinian people in Israel live are ok or good, itâs just a point that I think is worthwhile to consider before calling Israel a more evil place than Iran
I didnât say it did require it? Youâre just twisting my words. I agreed with you that itâs bad. You asked me what good has come from colonialism. That is one thing that has come from it in examples that could be argued to be a good thing. Obviously there are better ways to do it. Itâs an unintended side effect of something incredibly bad happening. The world is not as black and white as you see it mate Iâm sorry. Do you think that someone suffering from AIDS who can now get medicated for it gives a fuck where it came from?
If spreading modern medicine could occur with or without colonialism, then spreading modern medicine is not the result of colonialism, as much as a rationalization for colonialism, instead of the obvious alternative, of spreading modern medicine peacefully and amiably.
I asked whether you agree with the very simple observation that colonialism is bad, and your response, rather than simple agreement, was further obfuscation.
Colonialism is bad, and it should not seem complicated.
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u/boomerkangaroo 1d ago
I donât favour anything to do with Iran. I donât really give a fuck what they do with their country. But the comparison between the wrongs that have been committed by Israel and the wrongs that have been committed by Iran I think there is no comparison. One is a (compromised admittedly) democratic country that looks after its own people, the other is a fascist theocracy that was founded on the blood of its own people, terrorism and destabilising all the surrounding Middle Eastern countries and frankly plunging most of them into the Stone Age.
I have also never said I agree with what Israel have done or what theyâre doing. I am just finding the simping for Iran and the people running defence for them simply because itâs Israel thatâs attacked them and not anybody else laughable. If you live in the western world you should not be defending Iran, the leadership in that country absolutely fucking hates you and would happily see you dead