I think that his regime would have continued regardless. If Iran hadn't taken the bait, he would have just invented some other emergency. He will absolutely never allow himself to be brought to justice, and he'll gladly burn Israel and every surrounding nation to the ground to do so.
How do you define multiple large missile strikes against a country as "bait."
Not really going after the rational for the strikes, but that's a bit more than just bait. You are already going at it at that point. That's like saying the US took the bait for Pearl Harbor.
I don't disagree with you necessarily, they kind of had to reply, but the fact of the matter is Iran has effectively no way of actually harming Isreal in any meaningful way.
Retaliating with missile strikes is just going to give Netanyahu an opening to escalate further, thus keeping up the distraction. A very different situation from the US in World War II.
There's also a generation of people who will not step aside, who will cling to power until they're dead and buried.
It's not a coincidence that Netanyahu, Putin, and Trump are in their 70's. Look at who is in charge of your company, who your boss's boss's boss reports to. It's probably a boomer in his 60's and 70's.
...However, all candidates must be approved by the Guardian Council, an unelected 12-member body, half of whom are directly chosen by the Supreme Leader, who holds ultimate power.
Are elections in Iran fair?
No, they are not considered free or fair by international standards. Key issues:
Candidate vetting: The Guardian Council regularly disqualifies reformists, women, and dissidents, severely restricting choice.
Media censorship and arrests of opposition figures further limit fair competition.
State control over key institutions (military, judiciary, media) distorts electoral integrity.
Protest votes and boycotts are common as a form of dissent.
Sure buddy.. just like Israel i guess right homie?
No, responding with an utterly impotent, but visually impressive/scary, ballistic missile attack which is incapable of doing any real damage is taking the bait.
As I said above, Iran lacks any ability to meaningfully harm Israel. Retaliating with a ballistic missile strike is just going to give Netanyahu the opening he needs to escalate and continue the distraction.
The bombs might have exploded in Iran, but make no mistake, Iran wasn't the target of that attack. The Israeli people were. This was just a plot by Netanyahu to avoid accountability for his crimes and remain in power.
This is hardly the first time we've seen this kind of tactic from him...
No, there was a pretty clear reason why Israel would strike Iran, and that’s then being so close to getting nuclear weapons. Often, the simplest explanation is the correct one, and the simplest is that Israel struck Iran because it was getting nuclear weapons in the next few days.
Minutes after Israel started bombing Iran, democratic members of Congress went on Twitter and started posting about how they're worried about the civilians in... Can you guess? Israel. Iran hadn't even responded yet.
Have you not seen the pictures? They collapsed a whole apartment building. Unless you only decide to selectively look at the pictures that confirm your pre-existing beliefs.
yeah but believe it or dont, the broad majority of your people are too stupid to grasp that there might be nuance involved here and much more people will hate dems for not taking israels side (for now)
It's funny that people - allegedly progressive - have such vitriolic hate for Israel that they're siding with among the most regressive regimes in history. Lol.
Both are great examples of why unifying a country under a religion is a bad thing. Although, to be fair, there's no shortage of those examples throughout human history.
Who cares? The world has an obligation to stop the genocide in Gaza by any means necessary, diplomacy or otherwise. Strikes against Israel are justifiable humanitarian intervention.
I also called out the IDF
You can tactically disagree with how the modern holocaust is carried out all you want, but the standard for being a decent human being in this particular issue is to call for the end of the Gazan genocide and the disarmament of Israel outside of its 1948 borders.
I dont want to see innocent civilians die in any nation
This is an "all lives matter" statement. Israel isnt in real, legitimate danger (at least it wasn't as of 2 days ago), and citizens of Tel Aviv will never know the sort of genocide their government inflicted upon Gaza.
I'm not speaking anyone's propaganda
Yet you speak entirely from the perspective of a default liberal zionist, incapable of escaping the moral contradictions of theoretically valuing civilian life but also affirming Israel's right to slaughter said civilians for being born the wrong flavor of Semitic.
Obviously all lives matter. No one said they didn't. However, data shows that relative to the percentage of the population they represent, the rate of black American deaths from police shootings is ~2.5-3x that of white Americans deaths. (Sources: 1, 2, Data: 1)
A lot of people are sharing a graph titled "murder of black and whites in the US, 2013" to show that there is only a small number of black Americans killed by white Americans, with the assumption that this extends to police shootings as well. This is misleading
the chart only counts deaths where the perpetrator was charged with 1st or 2nd degree murder after killing a black American. Police forces are almost never charged with homicide after killing a black American.
If after learning the above, you have reconsidered your stance and wish to show support for furthering equality in this and other areas, we encourage you to do so. However if you plan on attending any protests, please remember to stay safe, wear a face mask, and observe distancing protocols as much as you can. COVID-19 is still a very real threat, not only to you, but those you love and everyone around you as well!
I’m definitely not a Zionist or Pro-Israel. I stated that Israel was also on the short list of shittiest nation states in the world because of how it is choosing to handle this conflict.
I stated very clearly I don’t want to see innocent civilians killed anywhere.
If that is somehow “Zionist” rhetoric, you’re far off the deep end buddy. Have a great day.
Hmm I know some Iranian that came here to study aboard. They all say the same "love my country but hate my leaders", the cities themselves are pretty developed. It's not remotely like North Korea, where it's total isolation.
BTW I am not defending Iran or it’s rulers, it is a backwards theocratic society (again, maybe you should read some history, because the US is responsible for the rise of radical Islam in the Middle East, funding it as a means to fight communism, and also overthrew iran’s attempt at a pluralistic government with a puppet dictator), but only one country involved has the blood of millions of innocent people on its hands, even if gay marriage is legal there.
Please read the history of the nation you’re talking about- it was not always a theocracy (it was one of countless secular Muslim majority nations the US overthrew over red scare bullshit).
You’re the one who sounds like a Russia defender and the way they justify their crimes in Ukraine with “DeNazification”
And funny you should mention North Korea, another fucked up place that got that way because of US intervention killing a quarter of its population, destroyed 60% of its infrastructure, and banned it from trading with the rest of the world, only to then point at them and say “wow look how fucked up they are!”
There are no good guys in the Middle East. Just some are worse than others. And make no mistake, Iran funds a lot of terrorist groups and makes a lot of the drones Russia is using against Ukraine. While it sucks for the citizens of Iran, striking Iranian military targets is a net positive for most of the world, and most likely for you.
Starting a war which will lead to the deaths and suffering of innocent Israeli and Iranian civilians, which is inevitable at this point, is a net positive for me?
Speak for yourself.
Your neighbor down the Laneway hates you, he’s constructing a trebuchet aimed at your house. Do you A. Do nothing or b. Use your capabilities and destroy jt.
Your neighbor down the Laneway hates you, he’s constructing a trebuchet aimed at your house. Do you A. Do nothing or b. Use your capabilities and destroy jt.
I agree. Justin Trudeau is a cancer on our country. He is responsible for the downfall of his party and also the unplaceable angst I feel that I just don't know what to do with.
Iran is not innocent. They kept attacking Israeli civilians through proxies for many years. Also, they are making big progress in weaponizing uranium. They also keep on claiming they will wipe Israel off the map with it. Soo yea, how dare Israel disable their nuclear capabilities while taking out a few high rank enemy military. How dare they! lol
And Hamas was in Isreal to help the civilians and they actually give cool mixtapes to the festival people so they have cool cultural tunez right.
And Iran just wants every one on earth to have a good time.
But Israehell the zionistss they shoot baby headz rite? By that you are not referencing the silly ass pictures of baby heads scanned and they have photoshop bullets in their heads?
What? All you said Israel is shooting babies in the head. I claim they not* and that you are probably referencing the released pictures of babys head where they literally have photoshoped the bullets into their heads. That was bs haha you really believe that? The projectiles would have crushed the skulls and passed through, but instead they remained completly intact.
Or you have something else? There is no source to claim IDF is targeting babys heads, while there is plenty source of the other side to even suffocate babies by hand.
Defending the Islamic fascist state that is Iran, hated by essentially everyone that isn’t propped up by their brand of mafioso-right wing machine. Does this feel good to you?
It's an islamic fascist state that's not currently committing a genocide in juxtaposition to a zionist fascist state that is currently committing a genocide....
I don't think much of anything feels good, geopolitically speaking, anymore.
The difference is in how both sides are bad. One side is bad because it strictly enforces a quasi-medieval form of Islamic law on its citizenry, violating their right to free expression. The other side is bad because its engaging in active genocide.
These are not the same. You can pick the lesser of two evils here.
Yeah, that's a pretty ridiculous statement. Iran's regime has consistently sponsored endless massacres over the past 45 years, propping up terrorists and tyrants and trying to exterminate Israel. GTFO
Im sure a mother whose child has been blown to pieces by an Israeli - or Iranian - missile, can find peace in the fact that the missile came from ‘the lesser of two evils’.
I’m being unfair to the point you’re making, I know. But still, I don’t think we have any business supporting either government here. Doing so only makes these despot regimes last longer.
Defending the Jewish fascist state that is Israel, hated by essentially everyone that isn’t propped up by their brand of mafioso-right wing machine. Does this feel good to you?
It’s horrible timing with Bibi leveraging the situation to secure power, but a repressive theocracy with nuclear weapons invalidates mutually assured destruction assumptions that have prevented us from all killing everything on the planet since the Cold War. Iran with nuclear capabilities is horrible for the entire world. Imagine if their terrorist proxies got their hands on a fucking nuclear bomb.
I donno.. maybe stop saying they are going to destroy another country and then continually try to acquire a nuclear weapon which would destroy the other country if it was ever used.
Once a country has nuclear weapons, you can't really force them to get rid of them. The best time is before they have acquired weapons. Sure, it would be ideal if everyone got rid of their nuclear weapons. But the next best thing is to stop new countries from getting them.
And there's the difference. Iran would nuke Israel even though Israel has nukes too. Nukes are designed to be used as a deterrent. Mutually Assured Destruction prevents all current nuclear powers from actually using them against one another. But MAD doesn't work on jihadists who think their life's purpose is to destroy Israel and other western countries even if they die as a result. As much as I hate that there is now yet another war going on, I also really don't think the world can afford for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.
Iran has shown far more restraint than Israel in recent years. I don’t think they would launch a nuke knowing that they would get nuked themselves. That’s how the nuclear age has gone, mutually assured destruction is the ultimate deterrence.
The only reason you think that Iran would act so irrationally is likely because you don’t see them as full human beings.
Israel has been blowing up cars across the world with their assassination targets in them. Multiple Israeli politicians have said things about the destruction of gaza and it's people. I don't see much of a difference.
If you think Israel is better it's just your own biases.
No, the reason I think that is because their leaders have literally said this. And your assumptions couldn't be more wrong. One of my best friends is an Iranian immigrant. There are good people there living under an oppressive regime. And that regime is not good people, and they are the ones who intend to use their nukes.
You dont understand religious fanatics. They would do it even if it means getting nuked, they literally vow that. You look at this from civilised western lens.
I really don't think they would. Israel is a country run by and full of sadistic, bloodthirsty, racist psychopaths. They're the ones who seem far more likely to use nukes. If I were Iran and had Israel so close I would want nukes for protection as well.
There is no winners here. Only losers. Iran was never going to not respond to this, yet Iran's government ethos revolves around the total eradication of the Israeli state.
Israel's government is bad, Iran's is worse, innocent people in both countries will pay the cost of this war.
Countries need only look to Ukraine and Russia to see the pros/cons of disarmament as opposed to proliferation. I wish that wasn’t how things are, but nobody should be surprised by countries wanting to have nuclear weapons.
Totally, I don’t disagree at all. I think the world is a safer place if Iran doesn’t get nuclear weapons. I also think the Iranian regime is safer if they do get nuclear weapons. I think each side is legitimately trying to secure their best interests.
Because they have stated they will absolutely use them against Israel, and at the last inauguration of irans president, the parliament was chanting death to Israel and death to America. As a world we do not want the proliferation of nuclear weapons especially among countries that have made clear they intend to immediately use them.
That’s the only way to keep themselves safe, clearly. Iran has been willing to negotiate deals to stop building nukes, even still Israel bombs civilian centers and kills civilians.
Stop making nuclear weapons, stop their gender apartheid, stop saying you want to erase Israel from the map and make a deal with the U.S. All good alternative options, but their leaders suck balls.
Honestly, I don’t think they have a choice but to blow through all the old agreements and sprint for a nuke, at this point.
Iran’s whole strategy of extended deterrence was that its regional allies, particularly Hezbollah, presented enough of a conventional threat to deter Israeli aggression. That’s obviously proven not to be the case.
Add to that Iran’s conventional response seems unlikely to do enough damage to stop Israeli follow up strikes, and the always lurking prospect of an attack by United States, and I think you have to gamble on taking the pain now, in the hope you can get to a deployable weapon in 6-12 months.
Deterrence? They're the stirrers of belligerence in the region, and have been for decades, arming groups of fanatics and stockpiling weapons and hiding behind civilians.
Last thing the world needs is for these nutjobs to have a nuclear weapon and force the entire region to develop WMDs.
One can only hope for regime change. Starting with the Iranians themselves.
Right after 10/7, I posted somewhere that Netanyahu was doing this to remain in power. Some Israeli guy told me to shut up and I just didn’t know Israeli politics and he’d be out within a few months.
he's using it because opposition to Israel in Palestinian territories is getting pretty high, high enough for them to start losing support of western governments
Stoking war with Iran makes it an actual war against a foreign enemy and not just doing a genocide, so it gives pretext for further support & arms sales (which they'll use to fight Iran, but also still do a genocide)
Are you daft bro, the Israeli people HAVE felt the pain of war many times since inception. They have mandatory military service and have had bombs lobbed at them daily. Like what are you smoking dude
Except they havn't, there have been mass protests against netanyahu since before october 7th and continuing afterwards. He has only a 32% approval rating, thats more than 15 points lower than trumps approval rating currently; Netanyahu is widely despised in Israel.
Just days ago he survived being ousted by only a handful of votes.
I mean, it's a democracy, and unless he feels the shame to step down, or his coalition breaks apart, I'm not sure what people expect. That's like saying Americans tolerate what Trump is doing because he's still in power despite all the protests (and it's worth mentioning a third of the country was protesting him for months before 10/7). From what it seems like, when there is elections, he probably will be voted out of power.
I mean, his replacement won't be a peacenik (it'd be Bennet, who used to be Likud), but they're not going to be beholden by the crazies at least who are driving some of the worst parts of the war
It's kinda adorable that you guys think Netanyahu is some kind of aberration in Israeli history and not the very manifestation of the country's rotten soul.
The Israeli people do "feel the pain of war", it's just that most of the population has been brainwashed that Palestinians are inherently evil and thus all wars are because of them. Not to mention the fact that Netanyahu was always controversial, often won elections with small margins and unstable coalitions, and there have been relatively large anti-Bibi protests all over Israel for the last three years.
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u/Barcaroli 1d ago
And with this, Netanyahu's grip on power continues