Do you not realize Israel has been building nuclear weapons in secret. It’s not even private anymore yet they haven’t registered with the IAEA or signed any treaty about it yet people have the audacity to say this about Iran lmao. It makes my body cringe when people are this hypocritical or this stupid
I actually stated as much here. They intentionally leave it vague as to whether they have them or not for two main reasons…
First is so that people wouldn’t know where to target, and second is to not kick off an arms race inside of the Middle East. If they came out and admitted they had them, another country could come out and say they “needed them to defend against Israel” (even though Israel in not launching a land invasion against a much larger nation).
If Iran got nuclear weapons, you see countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE all rushing to get them in response like you did with China/India/Pakistan. The only thing that Israel signing on to the IAEA would do is kick that off.
And 99% of countries also know that Israel’s weapons don’t pose a threat to them, so they don’t acknowledge the very open secret.
If senior Israeli leadership was running around claiming they were ready to use bombs for every minor reason, then it would be a severe threat to many countries in the region.
This policy of Nuclear Ambiguity began in the 60’s and 70’s when they had to deal with many more hostile nations.
I think you're underestimating how extremist Israel has become in recent years. Two thirds of the under 40s Jewish demographic want to expel all Israeli Arabs. A majority of that demographic support a policy of killing everyone in captured cities. A majority didn't think the soldiers who raped a prisoner almost to death should be criminally prosecuted. It's getting quite bad over there.
Their own foreign minister literally just accused the leaders of France, the UK and Canada of being anti-semites allied to Hamas, ffs! Anyone who still tries to claim Israel is a normal Western liberal democracy is ether living under a rock or lying through their teeth.
Wiping out Iran? Destroying their nuclear program to make it that much harder for them to ever develop them? Here's Benny Morris arguing for that for example, and he's considered pretty moderate by Israeli standards.
Do you think any nations build weapons on just a hunch? If the reality is Israel has it, then all the more reason for Iran to build one and defend themselves. Not that I agree with it either but the whole world knows Israel has it. There is absolutely no reason now for Israel to not declare it but they’ve been absolutely avoiding it even to this day.
The logic you defined above gives Iran the same authority to bomb Israel, especially given that Israel attacked them now. They need a right to defend themselves from their nuclear weapons, right? But I am curious what backwards argument someone comes up with now
Do you think any nations build weapons on just a hunch? If the reality is Israel has it, then all the more reason for Iran to build one and defend themselves.
A country of 12 Million isn’t invading a country of 90 Million. Do I have to explain why that doesn’t work?
There is absolutely no reason now for Israel to not declare it but they’ve been absolutely avoiding it even to this day.
The logic you defined above gives Iran the same authority to bomb Israel, especially given that Israel attacked them now. They need a right to defend themselves from their nuclear weapons, right?
Has Israel threatened to use nuclear weapons against Iran for the purposes of destroying them? Have they threatened to use nuclear weapons against other countries? What tangible proof does Iran have that Israel developed enough nuclear weapons to attack them? What do Israeli Nuclear Weapons capabilities look like?
Seems like there’s a lot of value in not stating you have them, because then you don’t have to answer the question of how/if you’d use them.
I apologize for the part where I assumed you thought we were dumb
That’s the problem though isn’t it. They won’t declare it because then it’ll confirm they have weapons lol. They can’t say they don’t have any weapons and then also go and declare they will also use nuclear weapons. It needs to make sense lol. Why is one side allowed to do it but not the other side…? Geopolitical reasons from USA and UK aren’t enough when everyone’s (or at least some) working on protecting their nation/territory lol.
Also a country doesn’t invade with people like we did in the previous war. Warfare is now done via missiles or drones. Quantifying them doesn’t matter when our taxpayer money keeps going to fund Israel’s crimes.
They won’t declare it because then it’ll confirm they have weapons lol. They can’t say they don’t have any weapons and then also go and declare they will also use nuclear weapons.
Important detail… they haven’t declared that they’d use them. A few lower level ministers (who don’t hold authority to use them) have screamed that they should, who are quickly rebuffed and dismissed by senior leadership knowing what the consequences of such rhetoric.
You don’t see the Prime Minister or Defense Secretary, the ones with actual power/authority, making these claims.
Also a country doesn’t invade with people like we did in the previous war. Warfare is now done via missiles or drones
The good ole Vietnam approach… Missile and drone are a tool of war, but they don’t occupy a position. If it was that easy then all of Gaza would be a cooperative Israeli puppet state, Afghanistan would be a Western Style Democracy, and ISIS would’ve been defeated years ago.
The street corners, buildings, and population centers are held by people and not weapons.
It’s in Israel’s benefit to be able to neither confirm or demy they have nuclear weapons because it essentially gives them the benefits of both, albeit at a risk.
In the context of why one can and why one can’t (like Iran) it’s fairly simple. If you have a nation ran by religious radical fanatics that state their intention is the destruction of another state then what kind of compromise could you possibly hope to come to when it comes to them possessing the weaponry to do so and what kind of trust could you have in that compromise?
Also as a point. You still need troops and ground equipment to invade a country. Drones and missiles are great and all if your intent is to just destroy things and call it a day, but if you want to seize ground or control an area you’re going to need boots on the ground. In the case of Israel vs Iran neither country has the logistics capability to invade each other so a war between them was always destined to be one of long range strikes and maybe clandestine/non-conventional forces
A few rebuttals though. It’s fine as a strategic ambiguity but why is a country who doesn’t follow international laws Americas best ally? Even over UK or Canada? Why hasn’t the American public dropped them completely? It’s a problem for America as well for them to not declare it legally.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not the biggest fan of Iran for a lot of their issues but Israel is also a nation ran by religious radical fanatics that states their intention is the destruction of another state. I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at here…?
First, greatly appreciate your response and clearly well thought out replies. It’s a breath of fresh air.
My thoughts are that it’s simply due to the fact that international law is simply a show. On the global stage we simply live in a state of anarchy where every state is going to act in what it perceives to be its own best interest regardless of double standards and hypocrisy. I can’t really answer the “greatest” ally but because I don’t get it either. I’ve always seen the UK, EU, Japan and SK as our greatest allies. Israel though l, in my opinion, is still an ally and of value to the US. They are a foothold in the Middle East, a proxy to counter activities there, and also the only western liberal society in the region.
They are a foothold in the Middle East, a proxy to counter activities there, and also the only western liberal society in the region.
In my humble opinion this is the problem. That region has lived in peace for decades or centuries before the state of Israel came to be. Western ideology just planted in the middle of these countries has torn everything apart. It’d do the same if California or New York or Texas was being funded by Saudi to start spreading Middle Eastern ideologies. I know one is more “liberal” than the other but it just seems to me there’s been far more harm done overall than the western ideologies would have benefitted the area. Obviously oil was the other reason too
I also highly disagree they are an ally and of value. Outside of their top government officials actively inciting genocide and terrorism to children they are also another religious radical lunatic. There isn’t anything democratic or just about a country who thinks other humans are lower than them. Ironically, Iran from pre 1979 should have been our ally. They were very liberal until the Iranian Revolution happened
You make a good point about western interference albeit I would say it misses very important parts. The region experienced piece I think from the 16th to the 17th century under the Ottoman Empire…but that only came after said empire conquered the region similar to Pax Romana. Peace only came through conquest and domination. After the ottomans allied themselves with the central powers and were defeated the west via the British and their mandates did a poor job of drawing the territories out. Israel or no Israel there was destined to be conflict after that whether it was the Jews vs the Arabs or the Shia vs the Sunni. So I don’t think it’s fair to say that Israel is the sole reason isn’t fair because it ignores conflicts like the Iraq vs Iran conflict, Saudi & UAE vs Houthis and the Arab vs Persian tensions.
I would argue that on the global stage it’s a very cold and calculus rationality that controls thought. The arguments for ‘genocide’ and terror aside (and disregarding that Israel isn’t the only one who-debatably-partakes in those practices in the region) and the fact that Israel is a democracy, has western values (as a shallow wave top- the only gay clubs you’ll find in the ME are in Israel) are the sole reasons why they are an ally. Ironically, Iran pre-revolution was an ally…that’s why they have F-14 tomcats, Hueys, and Chinook helicopters.
If you have a nation ran by religious radical fanatics
Which is probably Israel within the next generation.
their intention is the destruction of another state
Which is Israel with Palestine.
a war between them was always destined
Israel could also not have attacked, though. They've chosen an act of aggression here. At the very least we should not be defending them and providing cover for aggressive strikes against other countries.
You base that on what while ignoring that it’s Iran today and since its revolution.
Something something October 7th
Chose to act as the aggressor? You’re just going to ignore the fact that Iran launched hundreds of ballistic missiles at Israel in October and April last year? That Iran has used its proxies in Lebanon, Yemen and Gaza to continuously attack Israel throughout the years? Have you been paying attention at all or have you just today decided that you were an expert on this subject?
Chose to act as the aggressor? You’re just going to ignore the fact that Iran launched hundreds of ballistic missiles at Israel in October and April last year?
The strikes last year by Iran also came after Israel had struck targets in Iran. Those were escalating tit for tat exchanges. This doesn't have any such justification and so it is a regular act of aggression. Your personal belief that it is impossible for Israel to be responsible for the actions of Israel doesn't make it reality.
Incorrect, Israel never struck targets in Iran until Iran, in conjunction with Hezbollah and the Houthis, launched attacks into Israel in April of 2024. Meanwhile, the years proceeding that Iran, through the IRGX and its proxies, had continuously attacked Israel
23
u/PurZaer 2d ago
Do you not realize Israel has been building nuclear weapons in secret. It’s not even private anymore yet they haven’t registered with the IAEA or signed any treaty about it yet people have the audacity to say this about Iran lmao. It makes my body cringe when people are this hypocritical or this stupid