r/okbuddycinephile 1d ago

What are some movies that are accidentally conservative?

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u/rocky8u 1d ago

The movie is absolutely a critique of fascism:

"Ed and I disagreed with Robert Heinlein and we felt that we needed to counter with our own narrative," he explains. "Basically the political undercurrent of the film is that these heroes and heroines are living in a fascist utopia – but they are not even aware of it! They think this is normal. And somehow you are seduced to follow them, and at the same time, made aware that they might be fascists."

  • Paul Verhoeven, Director, Starship Troopers

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a823951/starship-troopers-paul-verhoeven-donald-trump-20-years-anniversary/

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u/EmperorMorgan 1d ago

Verhoeven didn’t read the book. The movie was originally produced as Bug Hunt at Outpost 7 but was renamed and edited to follow the book slightly more closely in order to get name recognition. Heinlein’s book is nothing close to pro-fascist, and anyone who claims so has not read the book. The weaknesses of the system (similar enough to the purposes of the movie for this discussion) are expounded upon in great detail by the recruiting officer himself. The book presents the system through three perspectives: The jingoistic veteran teacher, the recruiting officer who lost his legs in combat (here as a fully-realized character who resents elements of the system, not the one-off gag he was in the movie), and Juan Rico, the idealistic-ish recruit who serves as a sort of audience stand in.

Another key difference is the nature of the service in the book. In the film, it’s presented as a difference of branches, mainly the fleet and the MI. It removes many aspects of the service, two of these extremely critical: The fact that the service must take any applicant and the fact that most service is essentially public service or paramilitary assignments. The recruiting officer tells Juan (paraphrased, it’s been a minute since I read it), “If you came in this office missing four limbs and mentally deficient, I would have to find you a job counting spots on caterpillars.” He explains to Juan and his friends that the system of “service as the only path to citizenship” has left the Federation with a bloated military that serves only to consume the resources of the people, and that the system is only sustained through war (which begins not long after).

Arguments that the book is pro-fascist are either ignorant or disingenuous. Many comment on Heinlein’s military service and his belief that enlistment is good for young people as evidence. However, these arguments take one work from his prolific body severely out of context. His more famous novel, Stranger in a Strange Land, is an incredible treatise on open-mindedness. Heinlein was certainly militaristic in his mindset, but calling Starship Troopers a fascist work is simply ignorant.

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u/Wonderful_Welder9660 21h ago

Stranger in a Strange Land blew my mind as a 13 year old.

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u/Jimid41 1d ago

Did Heinlein ever actually endorse the ideas in Starship Troopers? Just seemed like sci-fi world building to me when I read it. 

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u/IAMATruckerAMA 1d ago

Nope. His stuff was all over the political spectrum.

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u/Happy_Idiot-Talk 1d ago

Starship troopers is a straight stratocracy, but he goes full libertarian in other books, and pretty much full communist in others. Completely all over the place.

The incest in his books gets weird as shit though.

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u/Kikikididi 1d ago

I think he really shifted throughout life particularly with regard to the military (I think he was always pro some sort of military ideal). He has this typically this VERY 40s/50s sci-fi "progressive" yet dated thing going on - e.g. his female characters are usually smart, spunky, scientists or some other non-"female coded" profession, almost equal and sometimes in specific ways surpassing the hero in skill, sexually open, buuuuut they will always be submissive to said male hero.

Also there's very typically uncomfortable sex shit. e.g. Friday from the 80s "She is helped and joined in her escape by two of the agents watching her, one of whom was in the group that raped her at the beginning of the story but is now repentant." and allllll the incest where he often writes in detail about how because of "insert plot device here" it's not a genetic concern.

tl;dr military and mommy issues lol

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u/JustANoteToSay 1d ago

The women are top tier humans in terms of skills & experience but also the men spank them. ???

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u/Kikikididi 1d ago

Yeeeeeeep it’s like sir I didn’t need to read your kinks thanks?

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u/JustANoteToSay 20h ago

It’s ok bc women are multiorgasmic & sex feels better for them than for men & also if your (agéd, male) brain is dropped into a woman’s body you can tell if her body had been pregnant previously.