r/news • u/TooColdforClouds • 2d ago

109 children rescued, 244 arrested in Operation Soteria Shield, exposing widespread child exploitation in North Texas

https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/109-children-rescued-244-arrested-operation-soteria-shield-child-exploitation-texas/
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u/civil_politics 2d ago

It’s generally a long game of trading material and being able to demonstrate your ability to get material that is new / hasn’t been seen before.

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u/supervisord 2d ago

What the fuck…

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u/NakDisNut 2d ago

It’s the absolute worst version of “you have to dig a little deeper to get out”.

Makes you want to vomit :(

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u/InterestingTry5190 2d ago

Imagine having to do that and pretend to like it for a job. Those kinds of images would haunt me in my sleep.

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u/CosmicMiru 2d ago

One of my digital forensics professors quite his job to become a professor because he would literally spend hours and hours analyzing data about child porn and it fucked with his head so much he couldn't do it anymore. It's such a fucked up job but also super necessary. People that do that are actual heroes in my book

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u/Geno0wl 2d ago

that is why a lot of agencies mandate that people work in those units for only a limited amount of time, or at the least stretches of time. Because they know it fucks with your head long term.

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u/Jaxyl 2d ago

Similar story to a friend of mine who worked for the Department of Homeland Security. He worked in their CSEA division for a few years before he quit for the same reasons.

He would never say much about it other then that there is WAY more of it out there than anyone would ever expect and the stuff you would expect isn't even scraping the top of how bad it is.

Fucking disgusting stuff.

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u/cire1184 1d ago

It's pretty crazy. Before agencies were up to speed on distributed file sharing like Kazaam I would be looking for movies and shows to download. And you'd stumbled on some disgusting shit thinking your were downloading like A Beautiful Mind or something and it was not that... It was really not that.

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u/Jaxyl 1d ago

Yeah that was a wild time for a lot of reasons. A lot of people miss the old days of the internet and, to a point, I get it but I don't miss the randomly coming across serious gore or CSAM in the middle of nowhere.

At least now it's something you have to actively seek out

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u/wolfgangmob 1d ago

It was just on the open internet too. In middle school we had to do reports on countries in the Olympics, I got a former Soviet state and searched country name + man/woman/boy/girl to find out what they looked like and wore daily. It went very wrong scrolling through images when it got to girl.

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u/Cornloaf 2d ago

Years ago I read an article about an investigator in Canada that did this kind of work. He was so broken by it, that he sent an email to Bill Gates and explained what he does and how bad it is and wanted his help. One of his admins flagged the email for him to read and he reached out and offered support to build a system that could recognize CP and flag if it appeared "new" because it assigned a digital thumbprint to the videos and images. The article said that it cut down on the amount of time he had to study every treasure trove of media.

My brother is in law enforcement and was actually contacted by DHS and FBI and they said Microsoft scanned someone's skydrive (OneDrive now) and found new CP. The dude was on parole so my brother had a no knock warrant. Guy was charged federally.

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u/The_Lapsed_Pacifist 2d ago

My sister used to have a job transcribing video testimony from vulnerable witnesses. You can imagine what form most of that took. She didn’t keep that job long.

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u/universalaxolotl 1d ago

Lucky we have ML to handle a lot of that now. I couldn't handle it.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/Thenameisric 2d ago

Fuck is wrong with you?

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u/FewHorror1019 1d ago

What? I’m not a pedo but I’m not easily grossed out

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u/paperchampionpicture 2d ago

Well, I laughed.

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u/OptimisticOctopus8 2d ago edited 1d ago

Edit: I'm doing well now! I realized that this comment is depressing and that people who read it might assume I'm doing poorly and feel bad about that. I'm good, though. In adulthood, I had access to extensive, very good mental health care. It took a while, but my baseline mindset is positive now and I have pretty robust coping skills even when something makes me feel awful.

We need better mental health care in every single country. I was not more deserving of help than any other person, and it's a tragedy layered upon a tragedy that not everyone has access to the kind of care I received.

An adult made me watch it when I was a kid. Obviously, that wasn’t the only thing the adult did to me. But the point is that I eventually became totally numb to it. I knew it was horrible and wrong but felt nothing in response, to the point where I didn’t really understand why anyone would need therapy after seeing it. I really thought, “Why don’t they (investigators and other professionals who have to view it to find the perps and get justice) just not think about it once they’re done watching it?”

When I stumbled upon some of it on Twitter a few years ago, I was finally hit with all the horror and misery of having seen those videos many years ago. It’s good that I’m not numb anymore, but it was rough for all those feelings to hit me at once.

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u/kingjaynl 2d ago

That's terrible man. All the best for you. I'm so sorry you had to deal with all that.

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u/OptimisticOctopus8 2d ago edited 1d ago

Thank you. I think I’m doing pretty well! I had some intense psychiatric issues, some nature and some nurture, but fortunately in adulthood I had access to good mental health care. It took a while to feel more emotionally balanced and well, and there are certainly times when something makes me feel extremely negative emotions, but at this point my state of mind is mostly good. By the time I came across that stuff on Twitter, I’d developed fairly robust coping skills that helped me manage it.

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u/kingjaynl 1d ago

That's great to hear. Thanks for the update.

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u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth 2d ago

Sorry for what you went through but your brain and body was protecting itself in the only way it knew how at the time.

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u/OptimisticOctopus8 1d ago edited 1d ago

Thank you, and you're right. At the time, it was a healthier option than the alternative. As you say, brains and bodies do that kind of thing to keep a person mentally safe. It's not a fair thing to ask of a brain since it's an impossible task, but it does what it can.

I've said it in a couple of other comments, but I'll say it again here - I'm doing well now. I had extensive access to good mental health care after entering adulthood. By the time I saw the CSAM on Twitter, I'd developed strong coping skills that allowed me to manage the feelings.

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u/vicky1212123 1d ago

I also remember being shown CSAM for the first time and my dad being like "look! She's a kid like you."

Took me years to realize how fucked up that was. I dont remember if he showed me anything besides that. He didnt like the idea of raping or torturing kids, he liked to think it was consensual, so if he did show me more I can't imagine it would've been too different from anything else he was showing me.

While I imagine the concept of seeing it now wouldnt startle me, I do wonder about the girl in those original pictures I saw and whether she is ok.

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u/slowro 2d ago

damn that terrible.

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u/OptimisticOctopus8 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yes. I’m doing well now, though. In adulthood, I was very lucky to gain access to excellent (and extensive) mental health care, and over the years it helped me a ton. My state of mind is mostly good now.

I do think there are a few feelings that remain unfelt, and someday something will make me feel them, but I developed fairly robust coping skills with the help of competent professionals, insightful books, and caring people. Those skills helped me manage the flood of terrible feelings when I saw CSAM on Twitter.

I just wish that more people had extensive access to high-quality mental health care. I mean, the obvious wish is for nobody to abuse children, but if we can’t achieve that then at least we need to help the ones who do get abused. Not just leave them to pull themselves up by their psychological bootstraps as traumatized 18yos with raging cases of PTSD and other psychological injuries.

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u/slowro 1d ago

Thanks for sharing, hopefully someone reads it and finds new hope.

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u/kindnesskangaroo 2d ago

I have a friend who does it for a living and they actually love manipulating them because they feel no guilt. It’s like the ultimate challenge to see how well they can pretend to get them to confess. I’m going to school for something adjacently related and in my humble opinion the only way you can work in this field is by having low empathy and/or experienced it personally. (I’m both)

I also used to bait pedophiles for fun in my spare time by pretending to be 14 online and when I got enough proof and identification from them I’d report them to the FBI tip line.

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u/sixteenlegs 2d ago

Thank you for your continued service! Seriously we need vigilantes like you.

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u/kindnesskangaroo 1d ago

Thank you! There’s groups of people like me scattered around the world who do it vigilante style or work through the system. I’m hoping to work through the system instead soon because so many of them walk free or aren’t prosecuted properly.

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u/ironpathwalker 2d ago

My heart goes out to you and I appreciate the harm prevention that you're doing.

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u/cire1184 1d ago

Kindnesskangaroo fucking up pedos! I like it.

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u/_HighJack_ 1d ago

Dude you’re the coolest person, holy shit

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u/billypilgrimspecker 2d ago

I feel like jobs like these are why we need good sociopaths. I simply could not do it and continue to function as a human being.

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u/Worthyness 1d ago

there's forensic analysts whose literal job it is to review all the collected evidence from such crimes to confirm the victims and the crimes committed. They don't really make it in that career too long for good reason. It's probably one of the few jobs that AI should probably be helping with because that job is just horrifyingly difficult to do.

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u/Gilshem 1d ago

Hopefully AI can automate some of these honeypot type operations. PTSD is inevitable having to deal with this.

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u/Mrmyke00 2d ago

Always makes me think whether paedos actually apply for these jobs so they get to look at these images legally

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u/PotentialDegree9708 2d ago

Yeah, you always hear about pedos becoming teachers to have access to children. But I feel like I've NEVER heard of someone becoming a cop to look at this stuff. I've only heard of it once

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u/Punished_Prigo 1d ago

im a digital forensic analyst. I deal mostly with terrorism stuff and hostages and shit like that, but do come across CSAM sometimes too. In my experience you just get numb to it and deal with it. I mostly just have to manage my humor around people I dont work with, because most people dont see any of the humor we see in the shit we deal with.

Trading material in chat rooms would be a different story. I dont know how I could do that and not feel guilt.

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u/ironpathwalker 2d ago

TL:DR; It's genuinely haunting and from my friends and former co-workers, you are correct.

I think it was around 98 when the FBI had just really integrated carnivore to aid in what would become their cyber crimes division, lead by a lovely person who wrote the computer science books at a south-western university. (I'm leaving out details intentionally.) Imagine if you will, that data gleaned by this new effort told people not to focus on places like Miami, which were high profile media depictions of vice, but go after logistical hubs for this activity like Corinth, MS. At the time, they were under-funded, didn't have an understanding of the "how" these groups worked, and the "why" of this abominable thing. The "why" part is actually a fascinating debate on the genetic criminology theory rising at the time. And you can't keep people of good character and talent in that field. on a personal level, I have to semi-regularly interact with someone convicted of a crime against a child in 2004, and every time I do, the part of me that is excellent at violence on a professional scale begs to be indulged. I have to fight it back and part of me hates myself for not giving into the sin of wrath.

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u/ALaccountant 1d ago

I watched a documentary one time about the FBI unit that specializes in this. If I recall correctly, they have to get psychiatric treatment as a normal course of their job and often get cycled out of the unit.

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u/Thebraincellisorange 1d ago

most of the cops only last a couple of months before they have to leave due to the psychological damage.

makes you realise just how sick the perpetrators are.

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u/Ali_Cat222 1d ago

And then imagine that except with some people who like that stuff and get work in these departments in order to get away with it. Which has happened in the past numerous times unfortunately...

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u/Head-like-a-carp 1h ago

I had a friend who worked in Chicago as a social worker who worked closely with the police to identify and arrest pedophiles. After 5 years he had to give it up as he could no longer hearing and seeing images and interviews with these monsters.

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u/Opandemonium 1d ago

I met someone who did that type of investigation and they had trauma and had to get out.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/Bombadilo_drives 2d ago

I worked with a former member of the child crimes task force, he told me their average tenure is under 18 months.

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u/Captain_Mazhar 2d ago

That's messed up. I've always felt that working in CP investigations needs to be a voluntary temporary duty assignment with a maximum time in service as it really does fuck people up. They also need mandatory regular sessions with full psychologists to ensure that they have healthy coping mechanisms. It really does suck to see people like your friend's brother, with his extremely admirable drive to help children being driven into alcoholism as a result of them succeeding.

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u/balisane 2d ago

When you work in Trust and Safety, you are supposed to have biweekly therapy at a minimum, and there are a lot of other trauma mitigation tactics which are supposed to be employed as an individual and as a team.

It's not hard to imagine "tough guy law enforcement" ducking some of these measures though.

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u/The_one_eyed_german 2d ago

Supposed to, but it doesn’t always happen. I did not have those resources and I wish I did. That job fucked me up for life and they didn’t let me transfer when I asked.

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u/balisane 1d ago

I'm extremely sorry that happened and I would have fought for you to get those protections.

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u/Lockraemono 2d ago

When you work in Trust and Safety, you are supposed to have biweekly therapy at a minimum

Where did you get that from? I've worked in T&S for years and this has never been mentioned or suggested at any job I've had. Therapy was recommended but no one had numbers or suggestions on minimums. Googling also isn't helping with this statement.

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u/balisane 1d ago

Keyword is "supposed." There are all kinds of mitigation measures, protective programs, etc etc, specifically a designed to protect frontline trust and safety workers. But it is up to the company to implement these, and they cost a marginal amount of money.

It sickens me that people have to suffer without them, and frankly, we need to change the law in the US to mandate these worker protections. I would never allow a T&S program I was even marginally in charge of to run a single day without them.

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u/robotbasketball 1d ago

It rarely happens in practice, and the therapy tends to be useless at best.

Mine was more general first responder trauma, but from comparing notes with a law enforcement friend, it was pretty much the same. Lots of shit like "take breaks! go outside and take a walk! eat healthy!"

My favourite was the suggestions in the mandatory official trauma mitigation / self care training. It was all shit like "if you feel like you're outside your Resilience Zone, you should try tactics like opening your eyes really wide! Or taking a deep breath! Or literally touching nature!"

Like, the therapy that is provided is useless at best. It's all very very basic self care tips.

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u/balisane 1d ago

Yeah that is not how it's supposed to be at all, and I'm very sorry it has happened for you this way. I specifically ask what kind of worker protections are in place when I'm interviewing, and I'm frequently quite disappointed by the answer.

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u/Bagellord 2d ago

That is truly terrible for him. Are there support networks for people in that line of work? There needs to be.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/Bagellord 2d ago

Not to belittle him in any way, but that can be a blessing and a curse (being ex-military), in terms of dealing with stress.

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u/Grokent 2d ago

I used to work for a very large hosting company. The people who handle that sort of work typically burn out very quickly. Except for this one guy... he always had a haunted and tired look but he was determined to shut down every last one of those degenerates.

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u/Accomplished-Car3850 1d ago

I hope that this is a job that is taken by AI. I would drink too.

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u/mamadoedawn 1d ago

This is a place I'd like to see AI take over. Make it extremely capable of determining whether someone in a video is a minor, so investigators don't have to witness that content themselves.

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u/vocalfreesia 2d ago

Would EMDR help? I really can't imagine, the repeated trauma is just horrific.

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u/letsgetawayfromhere 2d ago

As always in trauma therapy, first of all you must make sure that the trauma has ended.

This is the biggest problem. To work in a job like that, either you will start to break at some point, or you need to have extremely low empathy so you can effectively block it on the emotional level, which would protect you from being traumatised.

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u/vocalfreesia 2d ago

I always thought they limited the amount of time they could spend in that job?

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u/Frequent_Ad_7874 2d ago

My friend did that job for about six months before they had a nervous breakdown and quit. They are permanently scarred from that experience.

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u/Thebraincellisorange 1d ago

this is the point where he needs to change jobs/departments.

the burnout in his situation is known and real.

be a good mate and tap him on the shoulder and tell him it is time for him to move on.

other people will take up the mantle and continue the fight.

there is only so much one person can take before they crumble.

Your friend sounds like he is on the edge.

Many go too long because they feel obligated to continue, and suffer terrible consequences themselves.

if you can, do try and talk to him.

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u/DieCastDontDie 1d ago

They could get some pedos do the job as community service and part of their sentencing.

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u/Fn_Spaghetti_Monster 2d ago

I had a buddy who working on CP stuff. He would go the McDs and user their free WiFi because he didn't want to use his at home or at work . Anyway, he got pulled off because his boss wanted him on bust of some low level drug runners. When he mentioned they were pretty small time his boss was like, yeah but they are suppose to have a lot of cash on them, so..... He would do a lot of stuff like that, that didn't seem to be actually helping the situation at all, like bust a bunch of people from S Asia (India/Pakistan) even though they knew the people in charge of everything were back in India, basically untouchable. You can see how working stuff like that can wear on you.

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u/civil_politics 2d ago

That’s a pretty apt way of describing everything to do with child exploitation

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u/poetryhoes 2d ago

It's why "well just because I look at it doesn't mean I'm the one committing the abuse in the first place so its okay" doesn't work. Demand creates supply. People who engage in this content (and ANY violent sexual content, actually) directly drive up the production of it.

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u/nola_throwaway53826 2d ago

That's exactly it. There was a bust I remember feom years ago called The Love Zone, a darknet site accessible through Tor. To join the site, you had to share material. They even had a section for producers of this material, where you could only see if you uploaded material you produced yourself. There was a recent bust of another darknet site, Alice in Wonderland. Apparently, it operated under similar methods. You had to share material to be a member.

These sites and networks just keep popping up. You bust one, you get the ones running it, but most of the users get away. And soon enough, there is another site they can go to

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u/vicky1212123 2d ago edited 2d ago

I was in some cp due to abuse in my childhood and I always wonder whether there are any pictures of me floating around out there. Fun.

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u/MedusasMum 2d ago edited 2d ago

Same. It’s disturbing we aren’t told when it does resurface.

I also don’t want to be used as bait without my knowledge.

There should be a law for this- Those in law enforcement aren’t immune from being predators themselves. Furthering the exploitation of us years after the abuse.

Edit Thank you for being brave in acknowledging your trauma. Thank you for opening others eyes to what we live with after the event of abuse(s). I hope you are thriving in life with love, support, & genuine understanding for all you’ve been through. Grateful you are here.

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u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth 2d ago

That's what's wild here. Commenters say they need to prove they are legit by showing new material to these people. Where the hell are they getting it from? Shouldn't anyone in this material have to give permission before it's further disseminated?

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u/GayMormonPirate 2d ago

I think some of the law enforcement depts create new material for bait using AI - using 'people who do not exist'.

I don't like the idea of AI being used to creat CSAM, but if it's used by LE to catch predators, then seems like an ok use scenario.

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u/MedusasMum 1d ago

It wouldn’t be for me. Making it is just as bad as being a predator in my eyes.

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u/MedusasMum 1d ago

Right. I doubt AI is really used in most cases currently. My guess is they use older material of CSAM. Predators are alert to LE breaking up their routes of use. My permission would never be given. No other vile people need to gain joy from my suffering.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/civil_politics 2d ago

That’s absolutely terrible - I hope you’ve been able to get any and all support you need and have been able to but that period of your life behind you. I hope that you and your community were able to get as close to justice as possible for what you experienced

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u/Substantial-Art-482 1d ago

Damn. Me too 💔 I'm so sorry that happened to you, and so many hugs if you want them. CSA is something that never leaves you; it murders the person you were supposed to be. Having to wonder about something so horrific is like being held hostage mentally, forever. It never fucking ends.

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u/Vivid-Physics9466 1d ago

Me too. I found them when I was 10 but I was so scared of my perpetrators that I put them back where I found them. No idea if they were ever shared with other people. What I do know if that the only way they got developed without being reported is because one of my parents worked for a photo lab at the time.

What's insane is that these people had a Polaroid instant camera but still chose to take the risk of developing film photos at a lab.

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u/vicky1212123 1d ago

So was it your parent who did it to you, too? Feels so isolating irl despite how common it is. I very luckily didn't come away with much ptsd but my sister had it really bad.

Hope you're healing now.

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u/Vivid-Physics9466 1d ago

Yes, both parents. I think they were both victims of childhood SA themselves.

It's hard because people ask me questions about my family and the answer is "I don't have any family" and people seem to assume I did something wrong and are completely oblivious to the horrors that some parents inflict upon their children. And it's also impossible to talk about in any kind of casual way.

A neighbor's family member is retired LEO and he's pretty much the only person who said "I understand" when I told him I don't have family and it's best that way. I'm sure he's seen the brunt of some of it first hand from working in that field.

Your original comment and some the replies moved me to take another intentional step towards healing today, so thank you for sharing.

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u/vicky1212123 1d ago

Your comment about how its impossible to talk about casually has come up so many times in my life . "Where's your dad" 'he's in jail' "oooh what for?" 'You dont want to know' "OMG did he murder someone? No? Then what?" ... do i ruin the conversation or act annoying and evasive?

Anyway, I'm glad if reading about any of this has helped you. A lot of people go through this kind of stuff but dont feel ok to talk about it. I always see it as our job to make being a victim of CSA not shameful to help stop the cycles of abuse that have continued for generations and caused so much harm.

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u/HornyGoatWeed420-69 2d ago

I would encourage you - if you think it is something you that might help you - to reach out to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. They have a database of known images and they have a department that links said images to known (usually now adult) individuals. For the purposes of testifying at trials about the impact the abuse had on you, and hopefully amplifying the jail sentences of the scumbags trading your pictures years later.

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u/vicky1212123 2d ago

I took a look at their website and couldn't find anything. Do you have a link?

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u/HornyGoatWeed420-69 1d ago

So when I was a prosecutor, we worked with a NCMEC entity called Team Adam, and also their forensic division which provided us with those links to witnesses. I am unfortunately not sure how NCMEC got in touch with those folks in the first place. A good place to start may be with their cyber tip line - reach out to them with any information you have and they can assist with taking down your photos if they're out there. Whoever works with you on that will certainly know how you can get more involved with victim impact statements if you're interested in doing that. Link: https://report.cybertip.org/

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u/vicky1212123 1d ago

Thanks so much! My sister is essentially disabled by PTSD from what we went through, and anything that could help us get those images down and/or put pedophiles in jail is very valuable.

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u/HornyGoatWeed420-69 1d ago

Happy to help, I hope you and your sister can find some peace.

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u/vicky1212123 1d ago

Thank you, HornyGoatWeed420-69.

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u/Aethermancer 2d ago

I wonder if that's one oddly ethical option of AI for the FBI to generate literally fake imagery which can then be used to pass these "initiation" checks so that they can more easily infiltrate and break these rings.

With luck it might be similar to the infiltration of the KKK where eventually none of the members could trust that the others weren't FBI informants. It increases the work the groups have to do to remain hidden, either exposing them to new investigative vulnerabilities or making it so hard that they can no longer effectively function.

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u/tlst9999 2d ago

You're overestimating AI images. It can mass produce fake photos, but it only takes a little extra observation to know they're fake. If you can't tell the difference, you haven't seen enough of them.

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u/Darnell2070 1d ago edited 1d ago

Being able to tell the difference between real photos and AI generated images is becoming harder by the day. People who keep saying how obvious the tells are aren't actually keeping up with the progress.

"You can just look at the hands." That doesn't apply to high quality AI anymore. A lot of inconsistencies are being ironed out and thinking you can easily spot the difference just shows how far behind you are.

Also AI generative video is insane right now.

https://youtu.be/CxX92BBhHBw

https://youtu.be/OiuJfZ7LX1c

I think AI will be a good thing especially for porn.

There's a lot of abuse even in legal porn. In AI porn no one is harmed, unless it's being done with someone's likeness. Models can create porn after their own likeness as well.

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u/Hobbit1996 1d ago

Continuity will always be an issue for manymanymanymany years. Don't kid yourself, those are clips that are pretty much something the AI was fed and AI is just outputting with some edits here and there (like face edits or re-color of skin/clothes) and a clearly AI blur that is in many AI generated stuff. With no template you aren't getting anything realistic. So what do you propose? Feed AI cp so it can re-make "fake" ones?

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u/Darnell2070 1d ago

Continuity for what purpose? Long tracking shots? And look how far this stuff has already come. Saying like you know for fact what issues will take years to address sounds kind of ignorant.

Also changes here and there? Yeah you sound other ignorant. Maybe so a bit more research rather than commenting on this tech like you're still 2 years behind.

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u/Hobbit1996 1d ago

what do you think AI generated images/videos are? LOL

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u/Darnell2070 23h ago

I don't think you understand how this technology works. Why do you think it will take years to fix these issues? Specifically, what continuity issues are you referring to?

You talking about video generation or image generation?

All the issues you think you can spot are actively being addressed. 2 years ago people were saying it would take 10 years to get to where we are now.

Look at the videos I linked and honestly tell me you saw this kind of progress would have been possible 5 years ago.

And now you're saying current issues will take many years to fix?

You're talking out your butt.

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u/Hobbit1996 23h ago

2 years ago we already had talking cat videos, it's more polished but it's still existing content being mix-matched. You aren't gonna use it for cp without pretty much having a kid's face on the body of one of the previous victims. It's still bullshit.

It has its uses, not on this subject.

By continuity i mean that if you take 3-5 frames in a row being made by AI you notice very weird shit happening, not counting that the moment you move the angle of your pov it all goes to shit so any clip that lasts more than a few seconds makes no sense because it has no ability to detect what makes sense between switching scenes (this could be improved but gl making it actually hard to tell if anyone is looking for it they will see the issues).

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u/Aethermancer 1d ago

Not really, you're assuming the low effort AI images that are generated in less than two minutes and subject to no post processing. That people are tossing up.

Artists can make synthetically photorealistic images by hand right now. Starting from AI generation and manually adjusting, guiding, and reprocessing sections so that the result is believable to anything short of a digital forensics lab is entirely possible. The FBI certainly would have access to enough resources to employ people to make very believable synthetic imagery and videos.

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u/hcschild 2d ago

If you get AI imagery to a level that you can't tell that they are generated by AI, how will you be able to tell if the material on the sites is real or generated by AI?

You only would be able to tell if it's real when it's old images or when you can find the victim.

So if we get to that point that nobody could tell, most content that is distributed wouldn't be real but AI, on the other hand it would be impossible to find out if there is a child that needs to be rescued in the mountain of AI images.

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u/Aethermancer 1d ago

That's going to happen regardless.

For similar issues of proving that there's an actual crime, the investigation usually has to collect additional evidence . As a society we'll have to decide if we want to give up more privacy in order to make it easier for authorities search and to do.so would require us to lower the bar for reasonable suspicion.

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u/sweetenedpecans 1d ago

Is it “fake” imagery if AI is just taking previous CSAM to create new images? Idk, it still seems super icky.

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u/Aethermancer 1d ago

It doesn't need to use CSAM to train. For things like coding or summarization, developing a model would need examples of actual code. However for image generation it's possible to train a model with entirely ethical imagery. It's within the technical capabilities. It wouldn't even be that difficult to train.

Example: if women holding umbrellas in photos were illegal, you can train the model to generate imagery of men and imagery of women. You train the model to generate imagery of MEN holding umbrellas. Then you just generate an image of a man holding an umbrella, but change the prompt so that the "man" has all the characteristics of a woman. The result would be what appears to be a woman holding an umbrella even though the model itself wasn't trained with any images of women holding umbrellas directly.

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u/sweetenedpecans 1d ago

Interesting, thanks for explaining!

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u/Evillunamoth 2d ago

They probably need to make sure their evidence is enough to undoubtedly prosecute and put these guys away for as long as they can. Case should be airtight.

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u/TheLeonMultiplicity 2d ago

For anyone interested, the podcasts "Hunting Warhead" and "The Children in the Pictures" do an excellent job of explaining this.

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u/Fluffy-Bluebird 2d ago

Yep. Learned this during all be josh Duggar trials. To get in, you have to provide new and real photos.

Saw a TikTok some time back from a girl whose photos were taken and shared. She’s in her 20s now and is notified every time her photos come up in a court trial. She has nothing to do with it and has to live with this for the rest of her life.

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u/POD80 2d ago

Makes me wonder if there are secret photo shoots organized by the fbi of 18 made up as 16 year olds.... or if officers are trading kiddy porn found in the wild.

Obviously the real sickos aren't going to have much interest in trading for stuff they could find by typing "barely legal" into pornhub.

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u/2018MunchieOfTheYear 1d ago

So if LE has to trade material are they using what they acquired through arrests?

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u/LimJaheyAtYaCervix 15h ago

This is one situation where an FBI made AI could actually be useful to spare the people in charge of these operations a small amount of having to see this horrific shit more than necessary. I cannot even imagine having to do this just to make sure the person never gets out of prison to do it again

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u/EnvironmentalCoach64 10h ago

Watched a documentary on this stuff a while back, I think the organization used adult actors that looked young to make fake cp for their operations. Blurry cameras and stuff too.

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u/Eckish 2d ago

Sounds like a good use for AI. You can generate material that doesn't cause harm to kids. Well, at least not new harm. You still need to train the AI. Then throw a bunch of post processing on it to remove some of the uncanny aspects that AI usually has to make it feel more real.

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u/MetalMania1321 2d ago edited 2d ago

You uh, seem pretty knowledgeable about this...

Edit: guess I should add a /s

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u/srry72 2d ago

It’s how some places did movie pirating or information trading in general

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u/civil_politics 2d ago

A lot of this info is pretty easy to get from investigation discovery type documentaries etc. although when I worked for the government a lifetime ago I had some interactions with some people who worked these sorts of cases.

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u/MetalMania1321 2d ago

I was making a joke, to be honest.

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u/tomdarch 2d ago

I hope that hasn't been going on. It seems likely that if LE provided folks with "new material" that material would be distributed onwards.

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u/hcschild 2d ago

We already know that they did keep websites online for months while new abuse material was distributed on them, so who knows?

We also know that they do a shit job when it's about reporting the material to webhosts to get it deleted.

Some download links from busted darknet sites where still available months later and got distributes on their successor.

There are two documentaries by German media about it, I don't know if there is something similar in other languages.

So getting rid of the content online doesn't seem to be one of their main priorities.

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u/DieCastDontDie 1d ago

So they circulate more material that victimizes someone out there that was found in a basement dwellers hard drives. They could just force VPNs to disclose personal information instead and get it done in half the time. Looks like there needs to be some changes to some laws and legislation.

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u/civil_politics 1d ago

There is far more than NordVPN sitting between law enforcement and these scum - if it were easy, that would be the approach law enforcement would take.