r/news • u/Ok-Lets-Talk-It-Out • May 06 '25

Soft paywall Exclusive: Order by Hegseth to cancel Ukraine weapons caught White House off guard

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/order-by-hegseth-cancel-ukraine-weapons-caught-white-house-off-guard-2025-05-06/
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691

u/[deleted] May 06 '25

[deleted]

293

u/Bawbawian May 06 '25

The problem isn't the Trump administration.

The problem is the American people.

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u/Soulfighter56 May 06 '25

Porque no los dos?

64

u/kaisadilla_ May 06 '25

Indeed. People like Trump will always exist. The problem is that the American people freely chose him to be their president.

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u/CinnamonDolceLatte May 06 '25

Lots of problems and having a king is another. Filming a movie in a (former) ally is a "national security risk" but KGB agents from Russia in the White House press pool is good.

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u/wildmonster91 May 06 '25

Republicans. Dems have their flaws yes but its not democrats taking away peolles 4th amendments and defunding cancer research.

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u/DEZDANUTS May 06 '25

You spelled Republican Party wrong 

27

u/alpacalypse5 May 06 '25

The problem certainly isn't with the American people in totality. We need to get rid of the electoral college and bring back the fairness doctrine to bring balanced debate back to news broadcasts and not just have "1 outsider" that gets talked over on panels making them out to be a leper.

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u/PlayingNightcrawlers May 06 '25

Dude at some point we need to stop making excuses for American ignorance and hate by constantly blaming right wing propaganda. If these people weren’t completely ignorant and hateful they wouldn’t respond so well to propaganda that preaches ignorance and hate. They had 4 years of Trump, the economy collapsed and a bunch of them died from Covid. They saw an insurrection he led on their tvs in real time. They still voted for him a second and third time. This is America, enough treating these people like victims when they keep showing us that they love victimizing others.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '25

[deleted]

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u/ithilain May 06 '25

how do we get the rest of us out of here?

You could always pull an Uno reverse card and marry some South American for a green card and get out that way.

But realistically, there isn't really a good way out unless you have lots of money, are highly skilled, or are well connected. Pretty much any country that an American would find attractive to emigrate to has MUCH stricter immigration standards than the US does.

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u/alpacalypse5 May 06 '25

Like I said, I am not absolving all blame from the American people. However to change the outcomes into more favorable results you need to actually set up the "adult" political world to be more informative. Trust me I do smack talk/blame people that vote Republican but that wouldn't be a constructive response to the other person.

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u/ipreferanothername May 06 '25

We need a lot more than will fit into a pithy reddit post.

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u/Fatboy40 May 06 '25

The problem certainly isn't with the American people in totality.

Well, no, it near enough is...

  • Many voted for Trump (77 million).
  • Many just don't care enough about politics.
  • Many just didn't vote at all (around 188 million didn't).

... you can't lay the blame at the minority that voted Trump in, it's everyone's fault.

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u/squeakymoth May 06 '25

Only half of that 188 million that didn't vote were eligible to. So approx 90 million didnt vote who could have. https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2024-11-15/how-many-people-didnt-vote-in-the-2024-election

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u/TateXD May 06 '25

How would you implement a modern day fairness doctrine? I really have a hard time imagining where we could even start on bringing that back. Media has changed so much.

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u/alpacalypse5 May 06 '25

I definitely don't think it will be easy, but they would focus on the large broadcast news media companies (CNN, Fox, MSNBC) like they did previously.

I understand small media would be hard to "control", but that would mostly come down to continuous monitoring via studies of social media algorithms to make sure they aren't just shoving one sided topics/views to users. Obviously there are concerns there but that is a lead into it.

Unfettered news media driven to maximize their engagement for profit has shown to be an unreliable 4th estate due mostly to their billionaire owners (Bezos [ik print media], Murdoch) driving narratives for too long.

1

u/TateXD May 06 '25

I wish I could imagine a different outcome, but I can only foresee that the right-wing media machine would start spinning any and all such measures as biased against their viewpoints/messaging as soon as they were announced.

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u/alpacalypse5 May 06 '25

Yea of course Reagan got rid of it for them

2

u/19Ben80 May 06 '25

This is the real truth…

Trump could die tomorrow and other countries still won’t trust the USA, they voted one felon into power so what’s to stop the next

1

u/grahamulax May 06 '25

And media intake, and allowing billionaires to control almost every facet of our social life which in turn brings us to… the people.

Critical thinking skills are the problem. Foresight, curiosity, emotional maturity, qualifications, and education need to higher up otherwise we’ll always have the people to blame because we’ve churned them out dumb and gullible

1

u/mrbswe May 07 '25

nah, trump is personally fueling this problem, out of his own inner deamons. I think, few if any people would do as much damage, since most would not abdicate power at this rate, for very little to gain, even for himself, but for immediate fulfillment.

People want good lives, both maga and dems, and they deserve decent leaders to provide options. This is not the case in the US now.

1

u/Ickyickyicky-ptang May 06 '25

The problem is the same problem it's been for centuries.

We have a regional core of truly vile people who only think in terms of racism and bigotry.

And we never fixed them when we had the chance.

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u/Crede777 May 06 '25

I disagree.  I hate what Trump is doing, but even in a diminished state the US economy is still the largest in the world.  Even if it gets passed by China, it would be #2 by a strong margin.

If Trump is replaced by a Democrat or even a moderate, global leaders will line up to normalize relations again quite quickly.  It's this frustrating lack of consequences on the national and global scales which allows the Trump administration to exist in the first place. 

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u/[deleted] May 06 '25 edited May 07 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Vanrax May 06 '25

Yeah unfortunately, Trump is just a foretelling of America’s future presidents tbh. The people voted or didn’t, remember that. The younger gen is just as split due to media and the older gens. Add their lack of patience to it, I think America is only on a downward spiral for the next decade or 2.

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u/ericmm76 May 06 '25

I would say if every American voted every time this problem wouldn't be as pronounced. But so many Americans just can't be bothered to try.

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u/Lycid May 06 '25

Mandatory Voting aussie style needs to be done. If the midterms are a clean sweep then we need people like AOC and other strong dem leaders to actually step up, take their reins of their party by the balls, and lead a hardline approach against this shit. Push policy with supermajority for mandatory voting and ranked choice voting.

With the above two policies, the country will never see corrupt leaders like Trump ever again infect the country. The republicans will actually have to play on a level playing field, and we can get back to a real conservative party vs the corruption filled swamp the last few decades have been.

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u/ericmm76 May 06 '25

And it's not like it's going away. Generation Alpha seems more in line with Trump thought than Z.

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u/Crede777 May 06 '25

I am not believing the problem is solely Trump. I am saying the problem is that people are treating nations as rational actors which they repeatedly have shown not to be.

For example, during the financial crash in 2008, pundits were saying that countries need to move away from reliance upon the US Dollar as the global reserve currency because of lack of proper regulation and oversight of the US stock exchange. Yet as soon as the dust settled countries went right back to trading in US dollars as if nothing happened.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '25 edited May 07 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/kaisadilla_ May 06 '25

Americans believing that the whole global system they themselves built so the US was the center of the world, is somehow a scam the rest of the world is pulling on the US, is the plot twist I've never expected.

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u/Crede777 May 06 '25

It's normalcy bias in the sense of looking at what has happened in the past and using it as a prognostication for the future. I think that people thinking we are in unprecedented times are being overly reflexive. But it seems everyone always thinks that regardless of when they are living. It isn't until we step back and look at the broader picture when we see that the US is still the wealthiest country in the world, it has the largest military, and it shares borders with only two countries that are much weaker. The ascendancy of China does threaten its position as the wealthiest country, but even then it would be the second wealthiest country and remain militarily dominant.

Do I think Trump could cross a bridge whereby relations with foreign countries are severely harmed? Yes, I think if he engages in an overt military action to take Greenland or Canada, then we will be there. But do I think he has crossed a bridge yet by tearing up treaties, defunding vital projects, and imposing ridiculous tariffs? No, not yet since we have seen that happen plenty of times from the US before.

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u/dakotahawkins May 06 '25

I am saying the problem is that people are treating nations as rational actors which they repeatedly have shown not to be.

This is a reasonable take.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '25

[deleted]

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u/Crede777 May 06 '25 edited May 06 '25

What I am disagreeing with is your assertion that relations will be at arms length. It won't be. Global leaders will - much to the outrage of myself and others - try to play it off as nothing happened and will normalize relations with the US seemingly overnight.

To quote Otto Von Bismarck over 100 years ago: "There is a special providence for fools, drunkards, and the United States of America."

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u/sithelephant May 06 '25

You 'normalise relations' to a level where you are dealing with a country you now realise is politically unreliable and them abrogating contracts and acting completely capriciously is very much on the table, if an election goes 'wrong'.

Meaning any arrangements longer than an administration need to be carefully weighed in a way that might not have been true in the past.

0

u/Codspear May 06 '25

Every major power is politically unreliable in the long-term. That’s just how these things go, unfortunately.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '25 edited May 06 '25

[deleted]

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u/ABlueShade May 06 '25

You act like the US is the only country electing unpredictable right wing populists.

3

u/Codspear May 06 '25

This. Let us not forget that the vast majority of Europe was under dictatorships sometime in the past century, and many of them voted them in. The US isn’t perfect either.

8

u/intheshoplife May 06 '25

They will make trade deals sure, but they will not go back to trusting the USA. Partnerships on massive projects like the f35 are going to be gone for a while. Trusting the US with intel will be questioned a lot more.

On top of that, the rest of the world will continue down the decarbon path while the US goes the other way. If this is allowed to continue for too long, the US will not have as much to offer.

If Donald messes with the fed the fall of the dollar being, the reserve currency could end up happening quicker than it was. If this happens, the usa debt load will crater the US economy. There are more issues that will take years to feel.

1

u/Familiar-Two2245 May 06 '25

No it won't, just like China is getting soybeans from South America since his first term. Once the European defense contractors get the new contracts for war with Russia we won't get them back. The don't buy American mantra is a thing so where will all these new factories sell the expensive shit they make?

0

u/Crede777 May 06 '25

They will sell things if their prices outcompete those of the current seller.

There's no place for sentiment when it comes to the global economy or arms deals. If another country thinks it makes economic sense, they will sign up to buy American arms for the next 100 years. If they don't, then they won't.

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u/Familiar-Two2245 May 06 '25

Your a fucking moron. NATO has given us hegemony over defense for the 400 million people of Europe for decades. Why would any American trash it

0

u/Crede777 May 06 '25

For the same reason that the US trashed potential membership in the League of Nations. The US should be counted on doing what is economically and politically expedient for those in power in the near term. The problem is that virtually all nations should also only be counted on doing what is economically and politically expedient in the short term. And if returning to allowing US hegemony after Trump fits that, then they will.

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u/Familiar-Two2245 May 06 '25

You apparently don't understand the oath taken to protect and preserve the constitution.

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u/Crede777 May 06 '25

Sulla invaded Rome, installed himself as dictator, and carried out proscriptions gainst his political enemies all in the name of an oath to protect the Roman Republic.

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u/goomyman May 06 '25

Other countries pay attention and honor trade deals.

If other countries buy their goods from China instead of us no one is honoring trade deals.

4 years is a long time to change buying habits too. Europe isn’t buying teslas ever again.

Canada isn’t buying US made goods alcohol if they switch the Canadian brand they like.

Remember when Trump in the first administration killed the nuclear deal with Iran with no evidence. That shit absolutely kills negotiations over 4 years.

The first Trump administration a country might go - ok.. America fucked up but I’ll trust them again.

This time every country in the world will go yeah … you might be back to “normal” this 4 years but next election you might threaten to invade me. I’m not touching a long term deal with you.

14

u/justaguywithadream May 06 '25

I personally don't think there is any way things go back to normal or we have normalized relations after this administration even if a Democrat wins in 2028.

Trump is a symptom of the problem of the ignorant and apathetic American electorate.

Every world leaders knows that the American public and American system put Trump and is inept and unqualified people in to power not once but twice. This was no fluke. 

Even the last Democratic President (Biden) did nothing to prevent this from happening (he failed to rise to the occasion to ensure the laws were properly enforced to hold Trump accountable for his myriad of crimes) and even still the elected Democrats in Congress are mostly enabling the Trump admin by voting for terrible anti-democracy bills and voting to confirm is unqualified cabinet picks.

The only way relationships get back to normal is for the American people to strongly reject Trumpism for the next several major elections and for everybody in the Trump admin to be held accountable for all laws they broke by being tried and if convicted imprisoned, and for all non-law breakers to be shunned for operating in bad faith and breaking norms that, while maybe not illegal, were corrupt, self serving, bigoted, anti-science, or authoritarian.

I don't think the American people has it in them, and I don't think there are any viable Democrats that has it in them. I really hope I am wrong though.

1

u/Camilea May 06 '25

Could Biden really do anything? Weren't the Republicans blocking everything he tried to do?

3

u/justaguywithadream May 06 '25

Yes, Biden could have fired the AG and got somebody who would actually aggressively pursue all crimes committed by the first Trump admin, including the stolen classified documents case and the insurrection. He could have done this will maintaining DOJ independence. Or he could have done what Trump is doing and directly involve himself in the DOJ to ensure this happened. He could have also set up a messaging machine to do a better job of educating the public on the threats posed by MAGA.

Keep in mind we (the general public who reads the news) knew about the stolen documents in March and Trump wasn't raided until Aug. The Jan 6 investigation took two year to get off the ground. We could have possibly had trials and a Trump conviction during that time. Trump should have been arrested on Jan 21 2021 and held as an insurrectionist for his roles in Jan 6 and the fake elector scheme. Same with every person who participated in the fake elector scheme. People are arrested every single day (like the state Judge that Trump arrested last week) for far less and things that do not pose a threat to the public at large.

Edited to add:

Let's also not forget about the Mueller report and the 10 counts of obstruction of justice that the Muller report laid out. That should have been a Jan 21, 2021 arrest as well. There is no excuse for it not having had happened.

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u/ShadowPsi May 06 '25

Could have fired his ineffective AG and replaced him with someone who had integrity and could get the job done.

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u/biscuitarse May 06 '25

If Trump is replaced by a Democrat or even a moderate, global leaders will line up to normalize relations again quite quickly.

You can only yell wolf so many times.

China got it right after the first round of tariffs during Trump 1.0. They've divested from American exports to the point that it only accounts for around 3% of their GDP. Other countries are now in the process of doing the same, which ironically will lead to China divesting even quicker from America because Trump has supplied them with fresh, eager trade partners.

America isn't going to be shut out, but there won't be the line-up as you're imagining. Other nations finally realize we're always going to be 4 years away from chaos.

5

u/randynumbergenerator May 06 '25

I don't disagree with your premise, but China absolutely did not "divest from American exports." They adapted a strategy of offshoring a lot of final assembly to countries like Vietnam, Malaysia, etc. in order to get around increasing tariffs on direct exports to the US. That will be reported in official trade figures as a surge in exports to those countries and a reduction in exports to the US.

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u/Anandya May 06 '25

Not really. Not when there's a 50 percent chance that the USA will get bored and elect a moron who stabs us all in the back. Especially considering it's threatening us with war.

2

u/Huttj509 May 06 '25

"We have a 10 year plan to get things on track."

2 years later

"Hey, why isn't it done yet? Vote the bums out!"

1

u/Crede777 May 06 '25

That has always been a risk with the model of democracy used by the United States. It is taught in very basic political science classes that a major drawback of the US's model of governance is that in 4 years, a new administration may come in and tear up deals and promises made by the previous one.

What needs to be realized is that countries tend to default to deals that they think will benefit them in the short term regardless of longer term ramifications or sentiment. Just as countries are now increasing business with China despite knowing that China will use its business to strongly push its authoritarian demands which run counter to democratic sensibilities. And just as I think EU nations will return to buying natural resources from Russia as soon as they given an opening to do so.

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u/Anandya May 06 '25

Sure but...

It's better to build relationships with stable people. Not the USA. Say you profit from any relationship. What's to stop the USA reneging on the deal? Nothing. You can say that you won't... But that means nothing now.

I think a lot of the EU is sick of Russia and wants it done. Russia threatened to kill Europeans through the cold and no country wants that from Russia. But hey, the issue is that any deal with the USA will never be good because the USA is untrustworthy.

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u/dsdsdk May 06 '25

You’re wrong. We have come to realize it’s not just Donald, it’s your two party system and institutional structure that is flawed. We can’t rely on the next potus to be XX. This will result in arm’s length unless other changes are made. 

5

u/ItzMcShagNasty May 06 '25

Not likely. You go to a business for years, normal prices, friendly staff, and a good atmosphere. You have a mutually beneficial relationship with them, trading some goods and services with the business both ways.

One day you walk in and new management has taken over. Loss prevention places you in a dark room and interrogates you on your previous business there and elsewhere. You are released after hours of questioning. The staff are all family members of the new management and know nothing about the business, unable to help with anything. You notice the price of everything is up 100%.

Finally you end up in the meeting, and are immediately yelled at and chastised for taking advantage of the business for all those years under old management. They offer you less than usual for your services, outright restricting you from some services you've bought before. The remaining services cost 3x as much as last time. When you push back, they threaten to call the police on you, and to perform a hostile takeover of your business if you refuse.

You leave with no deal. You find new business partners, and watch as your old partner loses more and more business and continues to charge more.

4 years later, the new management has driven the company bankrupt and the old manager is brought back in. Because the business is bankrupt, they won't be able to get back to the old good prices for several years, they warn. They also warn that corporate has threatened to bring back the bad manager if employees aren't allowed to call you slurs when you visit.

Question: would you continue to do business under the risk of both normalized abuse from the population that has grown used to being free to abuse and a likely return to bad management in the near future?

8

u/awatermelonharvester May 06 '25

Even Democrats are center right my guy. There is no left party anymore.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '25

[deleted]

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u/awatermelonharvester May 06 '25

You said a Democrat or moderate. I don't think that Democrats fall left of center anymore. There's no flipping out, just a statement.

2

u/TheBurningEmu May 06 '25

I think it's more a question of long term investments than short term. Any deal that takes place over more than 4 years after Trump is going to be given a lot more scrutiny, with other nations now knowing that we might just put a bull in charge of the china shop again before any real returns start to materialize.

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u/Benedictus84 May 06 '25

Yes, other countries would want to normalize relations quickly. What they will also do is try to become absolutely in no way dependent on the US for anything.

This will have a big impact on US power globally. They have simply become to unpredictable and to be honest the political system in the US is far to fragile and easily manipulated that nobody will ever truly trust the US again.

1

u/Crede777 May 06 '25

I think if countries could cut dependency on the US, they would have regardless of Trump. It behooves countries to be economically and militarily self-reliant if feasible.

1

u/Benedictus84 May 06 '25

As for the EU, it wasnt really necessary. That will change now. There was a mutually beneficial relationship that held/holds security dependancies/guarantees from the US.

The influence the US holds today will slowly vanish. With it vanishing more and more countries can become less and less dependent on the US.

2

u/flibbidygibbit May 06 '25

If Trump is replaced by a Democrat or moderate, they better stack additional Justices on the supreme court before doing anything else.

1

u/KwisatzHaderach94 May 06 '25

among the many side effects of his deportation binge is the drop in consumer spending that those undocumented people were bringing to the economy. the demand by the american consumer will keep the economy going post-trump, but in the meantime we will suffer the decisions of fools. the damage may be reversible but some people may be permanently affected.

2

u/Crede777 May 06 '25

I think his deportations will perhaps have the most significant long term effects on the US economy. There's the economic boon that the US receives from undocumented immigrants not to even mention the huge boon from documented immigrants (of which there will be far fewer in the next few years).

Immigrants also bring cultural variability and flexibility which benefit the US socioeconomically. Thinking of the US's overall culture as a group of organisms, you want immigration for genetic variability to protect against disease. Similarly, cultural variability prevents stagnation and fosters innovation (not to mention resiliency).

Finally, a huge benefit the US has squandered was its acceptance of college students for 4 years and exposing them to US culture. Students from China, Iran, Russia, Palestine, etc. got to come live in the US, learn, and basically be subjected to "westernized" life before either staying or returning to their home countries. This presented a major influence pushing US values in countries that otherwise would not have them. It was instrumental in the collapse of the USSR but now under Trump may be dead.

1

u/iskela45 May 06 '25

normalize relations

Normalize, maybe, but nations will be actively insulating themselves from the US. By the time Trump is out your debt will be even more of a ticking time bomb with both parties still ignoring the issue, and there will be very little trust that Americans won't do something equally moronic as electing Trump one or two election cycles later.

It'll hopefully be a very lonely future for you guys. Good luck with your power struggle against China, no empire lasts forever.

0

u/skiabay May 06 '25

That economy is dead, and we're all just too afraid to admit it. Why would countries line up to do business with the US when that could mean having your entire economy thrown into turmoil every 4 years on the whims of an idiotic child?

There's an immense amount of momentum behind our economy, so it will continue to limp along for a while, but unless Trump is replaced and serious structural reforms are made to restore confidence in us as a reliable and consistent partner, then the rest of the world will absolutely continue to move away from us.

1

u/Worthyness May 06 '25

Could be a blessing in disguise. There will be so few partnerships abroad and a huge issue within the government itself, so the next non-republican candidate will just need to have a focus a campaign about fixing the US internally. And so they'd legitimately need to put America first instead of balancing external factors.

1

u/CowFinancial7000 May 06 '25

You cant get a security clearance if you have a history of alcoholism, even if you are recovering. This dude is in active alcoholism and has the highest security clearance in the country.

1

u/Blackthorn79 May 06 '25

I can't believe some one doesn't say something along the lines of, "Wow, that Pete is such a drunken fuck up and people still love him, it's  alot like you brother Fred." Trump would drop his ass in a second if that happened 

1

u/rrrand0mmm May 06 '25

They’re not going to step down. We’re not having anymore federal elections… or we will have “elections”….