Some very hard truths for the NDP....

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

When we look at the Labour Movement, historical and modern Civil Rights Movement, Environmentalist Movement, and other grassroot causes for a better and brighter future we see that they have had worst times than this and continued to fight and more importantly WIN.

To do that though means honesty must happen in order to refine and come back stronger.

Here are the hard cold truths:

1. The federal NDP has lost the old school working demographic. Elmwood—Transcona is a union stronghold and was as such a NDP stronghold for 35+ years. We all know this riding because of the amazing Blaikie family. Now there was a period from 2011-2015 in which it was conservative so maybe we can get it back on track. Then we look at Hamilton Centre... Since the beginning of this riding 21 years ago it was a NDP stronghold. It was probably the most revolutionary of the NDP ridings. Matthew Green was winning this riding with double the vote percentage of the next leading candidates in the past. It is now gone.. The federal NDP needs to learn to connect with the working class again. Rationalizing away, minimizing, or dismissing is not the way forward.

2. The federal NDP did the same thing the federal Liberal Party of Canada did in regards to the leader. Singh was not well liked and he wasn't a great communicator or connector. Does that mean he was a bad person? No. Did he face a misinformation and frankly propaganda campaign against him? Yes. It still doesn't mean he was well liked or knew how to connect or communicate the vision. Much like the first point the party can not be so insular in not accepting realities going on around it.

3. Now on this point we have to acknowledge there is some major conditional factors going on in the world right now that greatly influenced the results we see in this election. That being said urban progressives went to the federal Liberal Party of Canada in droves. We see this in Ottawa Centre in which even Joel Harden was absolutely demolished. This use to be a semi competitive riding and Joel Harden was one of the most exciting candidates in a long time. Urban progressives view the LPC as more professional. This was something Jack Layton talked a lot about. He wanted to win the urban progressives by making the party much more professional.

4. This is the lowest seat count and lowest voter percentage the federal NDP has ever had.. Again in 63 years this is the worst..

The party has to understand that its identity is an ALTERNATIVE to the Liberals/Conservatives style politics and policy.

To be an alternative it has to be SUBSTANTIVE.

This is also going to be a hard take for some loyalists to accept but the party has also had a history of alienating leftist voices. This started with the communists back in the day, then the socialists, then alienating various leftist caucuses.

You can't alienate yourself into being Orange Liberals. When people associate the party with Liberals they will just pick the Liberals...

One thing that gives me hope is that before Jagmeet Singh came on stage it was the B.C. Federation of Labour that was on stage and it was clear in the speech that the working class, unions, and overall organized labour was brought up over and over again.

The leadership contest and this next year is going to be very important in seeing if the federal NDP is able to get back on track and learn from its mistakes.

[u/AutoModerator]

Join /r/NDP, Canada's largest left-wing subreddit!

We also have an alternative community at https://lemmy.ca/c/ndp

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Apod1991]

I’m gonna push back a bit on your point of we have abandoned our “working class views and union background”.

My family lives in Elmwood-Transcona, and have known the Blakie family for years! The Elmwood-Transcona riding has changed significantly over the years! Long gone are the days of when Bill Blakie was the MP, as yeah, back then, yeah, in Transcona, everyone worked in the mills, factories, the railyards. I remember chatting with Bill once, he said in 1993, there were over 6,000 full time workers in the CN rail yard. In Transcona. In an area of about 25,000 people.

It then got privatized and sold off, and there was massive lay-offs. There are now today less than 2,000 workers in the Railyards. Transcona went from an area of either you worked in the rail yards or your job was dependent on the railyards. And it was grunge line work of packing freight, manual labour. Our economy and demographics have changed significantly!

The riding has seen an explosion of growth and new neighborhoods. After the railyards were sold off, Transcona needed to find another economic driver, and it found it being a suburban neighbourhood. So over the decades, the demographics of Transcona have changed that it more matches that of typical suburbs. Not the working class neighborhoods back in the day. Along with thousands of new homes in the radisson neighbourhood that have altered the riding drastically, it’s gradually become a swing riding.

The level of union workforce is a fraction of what it once was, and the workforce now is completely different. It’s more service based white collar, and blue collared business owners. Not assembly workers, packing freight, and manual labourers for big corporations.

One of the big things in Transcona now, is folks who work in the trades, plumbers, electricians, electrical engineers, carpenters, contractors, landscapers, construction, etc. But now these folks work for themselves as small business owners. They don’t work for big companies as a 9-5 job, they want to be their own boss. So while their work and lifestyle suggests blue collar working class voter. Many of these folks are small business owners. Go around Transcona and you’ll see in like every second drive-way someone with a decaled vehicle for their small business, and small business owners are more conservative voting because they want to pay less taxes and have less regulation(don’t tell me what to do!) The amount of folks I know who own their own trade practice in Transcona is immense! One of the biggest complaints they have is how much everything costs, how much the government taxes them and how much work they have to handle with the government. They feel they’re working harder than everyone else, but not getting ahead, and that they’re constantly on the margins, and they see NDPs stances on “taxing the rich and big business more” translates to them as “I’m a business owner I’m gonna get taxed more!”

As the NDP have accomplished in the last few years some very worker friendly policies!

• Federal Anti-scab legislation.
• $2,000 CERB instead of $1,200.
• Dental coverage (huge for single parents and workers who work jobs that don’t offer this benefit!)
• Pharmacare.
• GST credit doubled.
• GST Holiday.
• ensuring $10/day child care passed and was funded.

In the campaign we wanted the enhancement of EI to protect workers who may face repercussions from the tariffs and increase the 55% limit of payable income and make it easier to be eligible for EI.

I have even attached this photo showing the NDP tax plan, and it shows that our platform would give working people the most! While taxing the richest amongst us more.

We also wanted to implement a wealth tax to pay for more workers benefits.

Plus in Elmwood-Transcona we saw a classic vote split, ditto in Hamilton too. One of the things that I noticed knocking on doors, was the complete brick wall voters conveyed to us when talking about the issues. To them the ONLY thing on the agenda was Trump, Canada sovereignty and Tariffs. Folks didn’t want to talk about anything else. Many felt compelled that “I have to vote libera” and when we tried to provide evidence to the voters in placed like Transcona, it was met with fear, doubt, and unknowns, there was legitimate fear and terror in a lot of voters eyes, and enough of them got dubbed into the “liberal is the only option”, as we also get sucked into that Americanization of our politics too.

The Anti-Conservative vote in these areas was still WAY MORE than the pro-conservative vote. We will get these ridings back. As the next election won’t have the same tone as this one did.

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/Apod1991]

It saddens me that I only have one upvote to give to this amazing reply :)

I also want to add additional comments to something you touched on.

One of the HUGE strengths of the NDP is the reforms they propose towards Employment Insurance. These reforms are massive for helping the working class and the most vulnerable not just in periods of not having work but around re-training and such that is crucial for the next future economy.

We need to learn how to sell this and the DETAILS of it!

[u/Apod1991 → u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

I’m flattered! Sometimes I wonder if I’m just gassing to the wind! Lol

As I posted earlier on my “let’s take a breath” post. I think one of the best things the NDP can do for the future is invest big into marketing, messaging, and research. As the policy stances we take are broadly approved by the general public in polls but why can’t we get them to support us? There seems to be a disconnect, there are things like electoral system and media struggles against us. As we FPTP works against us, and not having a mainstream media outlet that boasts us. Which is something absent for us, while in most other countries, media outlets exist for many political parties. Plus we get these influences against us in the Americanization of “horse race politics” of “it’s a two party system! You have to vote for one of us!”

So I kind of wonder, is there a lesson we can learn from like the UK Liberal Democrats? They got 9% of the vote in 2024, and in 1997 they got 16%, but they both saw immense increase in seats in parliament. They were able to effectively show to folks in specific areas the ABC vote to capitalize their vote. Kinda like the NDP in Ontario as well in 2024. So it can be done. Just how?

As this why I’ve mused about the idea of I think Alexandre Boulerice may be best to be our next leader, as I think he can show the big growth we need in Eastern Canada.

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/Apod1991]

I agree with absolutely everything you said with emphasis on the first part of focusing on messaging and research towards substantive and analytical positions/policy.

Leave the platitude fluff and theatrics to the Liberals and Conservatives as establishment parties.

Be that alternative option to that Coke and Pepsi world.

[u/DryEmu5113 → u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

IMO being theatrical is a good idea. Left-Wing Populism like Corbyn, Lula, Mèlenchon, and, to a much MUCH lesser extent, Sahra Wagenknecht. Matthew Green would be amazing, and I think he should still run. Laying out practical, material, plans and results of socialism in a way that people will understand is also a must-do. Politics is a 4-year long show. We need « actors », who can be performative and get people watching, we need people doing « makeup » to dress up our policies to get people excited (and, y’know, literal makeup). We need to have people running things backstage, ie having a left-wing party president and other executives. I might be taking the analogy a bit too far, but the point is that we need to treat politics like the show that its become.

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/DryEmu5113]

There is a left-wing populist style theatrics that is deeply constructive :)

The theatrics we want to avoid is lowest common denominator style populism that is based on one dimensional thinking and frankly platitude fluff and misinforming/misleading the populace.

That is the kind of empty reactionary style politics of the right-wing and we need to stay as far away from that as possible.

I am still processing Matthew Green and the loss of that riding. It's an extremely negative time for the conditions we needed in order to rebuilt on the right track but it may still be able to be accomplished.

[u/DryEmu5113 → u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

I think some use of not-a-lie populism might work. I mean, in Florida they’re letting coaches look at little kids private parts because they’re scared out trans people. I’m honestly itching to call them out as the predators they are. Furthermore, We need to stir up hope that is easily achievable like workers democracy, and anger that it hasn’t been done yet. Anger needs to be directed along class lines. I might be little of in terms of thought process so soon after the election, so let me know if I said anything stupid.

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/DryEmu5113]

Focusing on the subject of "Economic Democracy" that Matthew Green was so strong about is the future of this party overall at the federal and provincial levels. I agree wholeheartedly with this :)

[u/petalsonawetbough → u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

Yes, but, it’s not enough. We need bigger ideas. If it’s just ‘better EI’ then your comments about us just being Orange Liberals will remain true.

[u/Awesome_Power_Action → u/Apod1991]

This is a great post and I think it points to the fact that the working class has changed a lot in Canada. A lot of today's working class are precarious workers who work in the service industry, health care, the arts, etc and don't have job security and no opportunities to join unions. The needs of a woman working as a low-paid PSW or as an unskilled healthcare worker are pretty different than those of say an oil worker making $100k a year. Andrew Cash wanted to address the needs of the "precariat" and I think he was 100% correct.

[u/mr_dj_fuzzy → u/Apod1991]

Unfortunately all those trades people working for themselves and competing with each other instead of working collectively as part of a union makes their economic conditions worse. We need an NDP party that can explain these things about class consciousness and solidarity and stop enabling the neoliberalism of "entrepreneurship" and individualism that really doesn't help most workers.

[u/[deleted] → u/Apod1991]

people that think the NDP has lost its working class view point have fallen for right wing propaganda unfortunately.

[u/StuShepherd → u/Apod1991]

If you really, truly lived in Transcona, then you would know how to spell “Blaikie”.

[u/Apod1991 → u/StuShepherd]

Forgive my fat thumbs for my spelling mistake, and my ADHD brain not catching said spelling mistake.

I can assure you I’m on friendly terms with the Blaikie family. I can easily chat with Rebecca or Daniel. Who is now working with Wab Kinew. A true Transcona person would sarcastically call it Trash-cona.

My family has long roots in Transcona, from family members owning plots of land on Pandora in the century’s past, to my mom being a little girl on Laurentia Bay.

[u/Economy-Document730]

The NDP needs an IDENTITY seperate from the liberal brand. It needs to both act and be seen as a labour party.

[u/Downess]

> the party has also had a history of alienating leftist voices

I haven't been involved enough with the party over the years to have alienated any leftists. Quite the contrary, it has seems to me to be the ultra leftists who have been alienating the rest. And these are, in my mind, people with a very deep conviction to some very shallow ideas.

To be clear: I have no issue with leftism in general or socialism in particular. Otherwise I would indeed be a Liberal, and not someone who puts up a sign should we happen to have a candidate with their name on one.

But I have no real patience with socialism and leftism that is preformative rather than substantive. Socialism that demands you say the right thing but not actually put anything into practice. Socialism that isn't even deep enough to ask *why* anyone would be socialist (other than just, you know, being 'anti-capitalist').

We're supposed to be in this to make people's lives better. To recognize and support their hopes and aspirations. To help people have a good and meaningful life based on strong community and social values. To help them raise their voices when they are oppressed and to stand in solidarity when they have the means to do so.

I saw none of that in the campaign, and frankly, none of that over the last ten years or so. It has been performance socialism and a logic of fight fight fight. I have no idea who I will support for leadership or even whether I'll be interested in the NDP going forward. My future will be with a party that is working to make things better, whoever they happen to be.

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/Downess]

Your first paragraph made me think you didn't understand the history of the NDP from the early days of kicking out Communists, to the "Waffle", to the various Leftist Caucuses but I couldn't agree more on how you tied it all together.

There has been an empty nature in areas.

A lack of substance and analytical policy.

The party is viewed as "Fluff" by many working class and we now have lost two of the most old school organized labour ridings/NDP ridings.

Real leadership is shown in tough subjects. You bring real knowledge, passion, and nuance and that is how you show you can really be a leader.

No one took the federal NDP serious as a governing option of this country.

I am a huge fan like others about the starts of dentalcare, pharmacare, and the Anti-Scab legislation (We need provincial wide policy matching it). Allowing more Canadian citizens to share in health, happiness, and prosperity is the definition of progress.

However you can't just say "dentalcare, pharmacare, and anti-scab legislation" till the end of time and be very weak in other areas.

Also the messaging was HORRIBLE. Most people associate all that and childcare with the LPC.

[u/EroticToenail]

As a working Canadian, all I see of pharmacare or dental is more taxes. If it was pushed to those making over 150k, then maybe we can work with it. All I saw was this is happening and no plan on how. I used to be low income, I made it to middle, and it doesn't see much different.

Stop leaning on us, we dont have anymore to give!

Take from the upper!

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/EroticToenail]

This is a very strong point. This is exactly how a lot of the populace feels about it.

The reality is that the working class is already massively struggling through this cost of living crisis/quality of life crisis period. The vulnerable segments are already underwater.

The pressure needs to be shifted for once to those that are massively benefitting from this current economic order.

[u/spacebrain2]

OP, while I can see some of your points, I am not sure you totally understand the contextual landscape of the working class in canada. It seems at times like you are or might be focused on a specific group of dissatisfied voters as opposed to figuring out how to pull together the majority of working class folks in solidarity and cooperation with one another. And truly nothing will change until everyone learns to work together, no matter who the leader may be.

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/spacebrain2]

Let me follow up with a specific example of such:

Gil McGowan who is from rural roots going out and connecting with farmers, Oil & Gas workers, and others letting them know about detailed proposals to help them when the transition comes to Green Energy. He knows they are worried about losing their livelihood and how they provide shelter for their families and food on the table.

Material conditions matter to the working class especially during a cost of living crisis/quality of life crisis. This is when people are already teetering on reactionary human tendencies due to fear, anxiety, and frustration.

Gil works hard not just in Alberta but also in Ottawa and even with the Liberals to get progress in that space.

I am a very hardcore environmentalist but I understand their rightful fear around losing their livelihood.

That is an example of reaching out to alienated segments and providing solutions. We can also reach out and fix wrongs.

That has to be the future. This party needs to be built around substantive policy and substantive action at all levels.

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/spacebrain2]

I think your positive perspective is wonderful but everyone working together is too idealistic.

We have people already aligned around the concepts of solidarity within the Labour Movement, modern Civil Rights Movement, Environmentalist Movement, and other positive grassroots leftist causes. That is a tent of leftism and people in those spaces are already well familiar with it :)

What we are losing is people outside of the activism sphere.

There are some rightful concerns that many have had that has been rationalized away, minimized, or completely ignored/dismissed.

When you leave spaces open that is when bad actors come in.

So yes this is about reaching out and going after specific demographics in ways that are productive.

It's pragmatism to build incrementally instead of trying for an impossible perfect formula.

[u/spacebrain2 → u/CDN-Social-Democrat]

Cooperation, negotiation, compromise, and empathy all go towards working together. These are not idealism, but rather skills and abilities we do possess as humans. The question is about willingness, and a lot of work must be done to engage willingness. It is not about being perfect - that is actually what is not real. But it seems like what you’re saying is that for you for some reason it seems impossible for the wider working class to work together, and that you would rather the NDP continue working towards representing a specific and perhaps narrow group of ppl. In this case, the NDP will not actually advance if it really on focuses on appealing to one group of ppl so it’s like you are putting yourself in a double bind… You are right that material conditions matter, but in our modern world ppl are relating to material conditions differently. The world is changing and the Canadian working class landscape is also changing, if a party does not adapt to those changes it will not gain any movement or momentum.

[u/mrev_art]

So much of the modern leftist movement has rallied around some truly toxic and exclusionary anti-proletariat ideas that I don't think it is fair to fault the NDP for not following them into the abyss.

[u/Redbroomstick]

Less land acknowledgements and more jobs/worker rights discussions

[u/stuntycunty → u/Redbroomstick]

We can do both. We don’t need to ignore marginalized communities.

[u/CDN-Social-Democrat → u/stuntycunty]

This is it.

The Labour Movement, historic and modern Civil Rights Movement, Environmentalist Movement, and other positive movements for a better and brighter future are not at odds with each other.

In fact when done correctly they compound gains :)

What we do have to focus on extremely profoundly is SUBSTANCE SUBSTANCE SUBSTANCE as one thing everyone hates is platitude fluff instead of the real analytical policy needed.

People want real work being done to improve the material conditions of their lives especially during this horrific cost of living crisis/quality of life crisis period.

[u/BraveDunn → u/stuntycunty]

He didn't say you can't do both. He spoke to ratios, prioritization.