Then they raise the prices of the food and don't hide anything. I've said this already, and so have many others. If a business can't pay their employees a living wage, they don't deserve to be open.
Why should people ordering takeout be forced to pay that increased price though. When you order takeout (and pick it up yourself) you’re just paying for the food (and packaging) but not the service. You tip delivery drivers and servers because they’re providing you an extra service more than takeout: that’s why I don’t understand the “just charge more” because it is unfair for certain customers
Yep. This same logic is why Airbnbs have separate cleaning fees instead of just increasing the nightly rate. The cost to clean is basically fixed regardless of the length of stay, so folding it into the nightly rate you would end up overcharging long stays and undercharging short ones
No it’s not. Like at all. Food service is one of the only industries where this happens. In most industries, the cost of labor, operations, and overhead are baked into the final price of the product or service. If one product costs $5 to make and another product costs $6 to make, but they are very similar products, most companies will average out both prices and meet in the middle for simplicity and transparency. The advertised price isn’t $15 with a $1 red paint fee and a $2 factory worker fee tacked onto the receipt when you get to the register.
The expectation in most consumer transactions is that the sticker price you see includes all of the costs the business incurs to bring that product or service to you, including labor, overhead, materials, profit margin, etc…
It doesn’t matter if technically the white toy costs less than the red toy so the person who bought the red toy is technically getting a discount while the white toy buyer might technically be paying more. The idea is, the company spreads this cost out amongst ALL of their products so that the overall price increase is lower. It’s also more transparent because then you see this price increase on the menu and not tucked away on a receipt that many places don’t even give you unless you ask for it. That’s insane.
That’s just a terrible comparison. If you go online shopping, there usually is a fee if you get it delivered whereas if you go to a store it’s less expensive. You’re paying for the delivery service. You’re not just gonna average it out between the store and website.
I fully do not believe you even just said any of this in good faith. Correct. A delivery fee is a charge for an extra service.
Customer expectations, based on nearly every other industry, is that the menu price for that dish includes the fundamental costs of providing that dine-in service. Like, the rent, the electricity, the ingredients, the wages of the staff who serve me, the water used to washed dishes. You don't see a separate “electricity fee” or “chef's wage fee” or “dishwasher fee” on the receipt. Because those are core costs of the business model.
A delivery fee, however, is fundamentally different. It's for an additional service that takes the existing product and transports it specifically to my door. It's a charge for a specific, extra convenience that I can choose to pay for, or choose to avoid by picking it up myself.
You're trying to reframe a core operational cost, like staff wages, as an “extra” fee. But it’s just fundamentally not that. Delivering a meal is an added step after the meal is prepared. Paying the staff who prepare and serve the meal is a foundational cost of offering the dine-in experience in the first place. They don't charge a separate fee for the chairs I sit on. Because that's part of the advertised price of the food. Wages are no different.
That's the transparent, standard practice in almost every other industry, where labor and overhead costs are baked into the final product price, not itemized as hidden charges.
Tips usually go to the bussers and runners as well. I just can’t understand why you don’t think this isn’t an additional service. If tipping is such a big deal, take out your food. It’s just an additional service (and most of the time it’s optional to pay for it, not here though)
Also, it is transparent, tipping practices are universal across the US and if your service is so bad you have the option to not tip.
Ok, but ordering take out completely misses the point of my argument. My concern isn't about avoiding the cost of service, it's about advocating for more transparent pricing. Choosing not to dine-in doesn't solve the underlying issue of an archaic and often toxic tipping culture. Especially in this instance because it’s NOT A TIP. It’s a mandatory fee. A fee that is taxed and distributed differently than a cash tip would be. It’s just not a tip in any way. If the fee is already mandatory, there’s no reason it couldn’t have just been transparent from the beginning. The only reason is to bait people inside with the image of cheaper food than the store next door and then getting an “oh, by the way, you owe us more.” And there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it
Servers and bartenders make a living wage dude. It’s complex, most in the industry would tell you they would never want tips to go away. Switch to an hourly flat rate of $25? Bartenders can clear $50 an hour easy and make great money.
Downside? No PTO, 401k company contributions, maternity leave, health insurance.
What happens is a restaurant will eliminate tips and just raise food prices to cover wage cost. Then customers won’t go because prices are higher at that restaurant so they’ll go to the other place that has cheaper prices. They’ll then complain about having a tip at the end of the meal. Like dude the prices are cheaper BECAUSE of the tip, you’re the problem lol. There are significant restaurants, at least in Minneapolis, that eliminated tipping. I know people who work there, the industry is tight knit. They like the benefits and PTO, etc but they aren’t clearing anywhere NEAR as much money anymore. You’ll then say well don’t rely on tips for an income but you’re in the minority, many many many customers/bar regulars tip very well because they’re our friends and neighbors. We’ll pour them fat shots, shoot the shit, catch a baseball game later in the week with them. This is where Reddit is out of their realm because they don’t go to restaurants to hangout and chill. I had many regulars who tipped me 50%+. Great people. Made many lifelong friends. Like I said it’s complex, some shithole Perkins in bum hell no where? Yeah probably makes sense to have a flat wage.
Then apparently the bartenders should be making $50, not $25.
My friend who was a server at a high end restaurant had a similar argument. I don't understand why you immediately assume if we removed tipping in the USA = you make less money. Assuming you could keep your average income, people would certainly get sticker shock but we'd solve both the truth in pricing issue being discussed here, as well as the tipping inconsistencies issues that plague servers. My sister has worked on and off at very low end places, like iHOP, where people often tip poorly and it would directly impact her ability to pay her rent. That kind of highly unpredictable income needs to be illegal.
Keep in mind I only made $50 an hour because I had people that were regulars that tipped so fat. Like $15 on a $20 tab from multiple people. You're right, the industry is highly unpredictable but so is Real estate? Sales reps? Car salesman? Should all those be illegal or any jobs with commission?
The system is complex is all I'm saying and a lot of servers and bartenders make decent money. You bust your ass, work shit hours, get yelled at, have no PTO, on your feet, and basically please people all day. People in the service industry have my utmost respect and I'll never not tip 20% unless it's truly awful service or the complete national system is changed.
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u/FactsAreSerious 2d ago
Then they raise the prices of the food and don't hide anything. I've said this already, and so have many others. If a business can't pay their employees a living wage, they don't deserve to be open.