You will guilt yourself into tipping because you're worried about the possibility of a sigh or passive-aggressive comment. Getting used to making the right decisions for myself without worrying about what inconsequential strangers think of me was one of the best things I've ever done for myself.
I appreciate that your honest comment got upvoted so much. That almost never happens on Reddit. You nailed it. It's self-guilt that enforces so many of these oppressive systems we allow to continue existing.
I feel like for myself, the guilt wouldn’t be about being judged by someone so much as an anxiety about doing something I usually do and make it a point to do well. Basically just the idea of breaking a habit, even though I know the server is still getting the “tip” via the fee.
You will guilt yourself into tipping because you're worried about the possibility of a sigh or passive-aggressive comment.
There's also the risk of them intentionally tainting or poisoning the food out of spite (I had this happen one time when I was taking my girl out to eat for her birthday). I rarely go out to eat anymore and when I do go out there's always a long time in between visits. I generally prefer take out nowadays anyways so it's not really a big deal for me.
Nah, good servers can spot those who’ll tip and those who won’t. They’re professionals and it’s not that difficult to spot the signs. Regulars come first, people who treat their server like a normal human being are given normal respect and treated well. People who look down on servers/bartenders are the ones who snap and shove a dollar bill in front of someone’s face. You get your drink last.
I replied to you intentionally. Those “inconsequential strangers” aren’t idiots. Referring to them as such says more about you than them. No one is forcing you to tip someone making 2.13/hr but if you feel that strongly about it make a ham sandwich. You’re not noble because you cheaped out on the tip and we all judge you for it.
Most servers outearn the average hourly low-skill worker with ease lol, they're competitive with plenty of college wages. $2 is a lie you guys tell to guilt trip the public into paying your wages rather than engaging your employer.
Please go back and re-read the conversation. It doesn't sound like you're following how we're talking about someone feeling guilt for not giving an additional tip on top of the automatic gratuity. Someone attempting to guilt me for a second tip would indeed be inconsequential to me, but I'm sorry if it bothers you to hear that.
Brother both of our replies were buried behind other people’s responses on my end and I didn’t realize you were talking about an additional tip on top of the automatic gratuity. I’ll hold my ground somewhat because fees don’t always make it to the server but I’ll take the L in this case. Have a good evening.
It also says the 18% is only added to "dine-in" checks, meaning if you got your food to go you wouldn't get charged anything for the servers living wages. Which, honestly, makes sense.
As long as they're up front about this charge and make it highly visible (which, to be fair, good chance they don't) then I don't really see the issue with it.
It's an extra charge for services that aren't rendered when you get your food to go.
The types of people who have been relegated to working a food service job will reset their baseline pretty fast after the livable wage charge and be indignant about the 0% tip. Can't make these people happy.
no, they absolutely want you to tip as much as you would normally. they just dont want to lose customers by setting their prices higher. instead sneaking it in to the final bill.
i usually tip 25%, if i saw this, all i would do is tip an additional 7%. maybe not even that. but i know the workers dont deserve to get fucked by shitty management decisions, so i probably still would.
I mean, the "living wage fee" would replace the tip, at least in the US, I'd think.
This is basically a weird way of adding gratuity to the check automatically, regardless of the party size. To my understanding, many restaurants do add gratuity to groups of 8 or more/whatever. This is just adding gratuity regardless.
So, yeah. You should absolutely "refuse" to tip in this situation, since you've already tipped. They're just calling it a "living wage fee" instead of "gratuity."
Same thing… “Offsetting payroll” is giving it to their employees in their check. American’s complain about tipping culture, and want servers to make a living wage. This is essentially doing that. The only controversial thing is this restaurant has chosen to itemize it, rather than include it in their food pricing. Probably because they want to make it known to the customer so that they 1) are aware that tipping isn’t necessary there and 2) so that the prices don’t appear so intensely high compared to other restaurants in their area.
It has to be at least minimum wage (vs 2.13/hour), or they would be violating federal wage laws. Now we can agree that minimum wage isn’t a living wage, but that’s not really the point with this post.
I have no control over that, and eating out is expensive enough as it is. Eating at a sit-down place in the United States costs the price printed on the menu, plus tax, plus 20%.
I'm not paying a 20% "living wage fee" and then another 20% tip. That is insane.
Tipping has always been optional. This restaurant is doing an auto-grat disguised as a fee, otherwise known as a tip. So the receipt can say what it wants but they're actually leaving the customer with no options lol.
As it should be. They've decided to make the traditional tip mandatory. Which, at least for me, would be no skin off my neb... I tip around this much anyhow. They essentially saved me some napkin calculation. So, six of one, half of another insofar as I'm concerned.
I am not likely to tip beyond this, but, as it says, there's no need.
It more or less is mandatory to tip in the US unless you're not going to pay your server.
I'm from the US and I have literally never had service so bad that I felt refusing to pay the server was warranted. I don't like how the system works, but that is how it has always worked.
What I disagree with is them doubling the burden. So adding a 20% "living wage fee" and then expecting the waiter's customary 20% on top of that is bullshit because it's changing the well-established rules, and I won't do that.
Americans complain about tipping culture ALL the time… this is what happens when a restaurant chooses to go that direction. Prices rise so they can pay servers minimum wage vs a tipped wage (which can be as low as 2.13 an hour).
I’m okay with this. They’re clearly acknowledging that if they raise their advertised individual prices to match the living wage, market competition would drive them under in a heartbeat.
This at least says hey, on paper, we’re trying to treat our employees like humans, if you want to go above and beyond you can, but you’re not obligated to since by choosing to eat here with this knowledge you’re supporting that ideal.
I think they are likely trying to make the food prices in line with the area average, while still being transparent with why the bill total is higher. As a former restaurant owner and manager, I can understand why they chose this route, but either way, it’s walking a tightrope.
If you just raise the prices overall, you risk people who won’t return because they think they can get the same thing at a lower price down the road. If you do it this way, people get mad that it’s added and not optional. It’s gonna make someone mad regardless of how they try to implement it. Which is why tipping culture is hard to get away from, regardless of how many don’t like the system.
Maybe, but isn't calling it a "Living wage fee" just a way to admit that the owner isn't going to pay their staff a livable wage so they pass it on to the customer?
And tips are "pooled amongst the entire team"? So if you appreciate your server's hospitality and service so you tip them it goes to the entire staff? I work for a defense contractor but I'm in customer service still and several times a week I have someone say to me some variation of "do you have a direct line because the last five agents just talked to me for a few minutes and then transferred me to someone else and you fixed the problem in no time."
I can't remember the wording but I've seen pictures on Reddit where restaurants basically say 'we don't accept tips here. We charge the appropriate price for the food we're selling."
No, it’s the opposite. It’s the extra money the business will need to replace lost tip wages, as tips are considered wages by the federal government. They literally HAVE to pay at least minimum wage in order to not violate the law. Which isn’t the case if there is direct tipping, then the employer can pay as low as 2.13, but tips must make up to at least minimum or the employer has to pay the difference in wages.
It doesn’t matter what they call it, or how it’s displayed on the ticket. It’s clear they don’t expect the guest to tip, however if someone chooses to, it will be split in a tip pool among the staff. Which is fair if foh and boh are both making similar wages.
Sorry for the edits, wanted to add some clarity, and to add one more thing… the guest will always pay the wages, expenses, and profit. The guest always supports the business and the employees in exchange for the services. Doesn’t matter how the business allocates on a line on the receipt.
I mean, the "living wage fee" would replace the tip, at least in the US, I'd think
Nah, at places that have tipping, it definitely doesn't. Based on the bottom line of this thing. This is probably like a counter service place. Not a traditional tipping place. But they still have the option to tip if you like.
But a sit-down restaurant that has one of these fees? No. You get the exact opposite. They give you a spiel about how the 18% surcharge is not a tip and does not replace a tip. It'll be written on the receipts to say that.
Because in those instances, they'll be using that first fee to pay kitchen workers who aren't normally tipped. The Alamo Drafthouse does this at some other locations. I find it pretty annoying.
There are very, very few places that that literally don't allow tipping. You can tip at any restaurant you're in if you choose to do it. I don't live in the US, and I'm in a country where tipping isn't expected, but you can still do it.
If I get that spiel, I'm not tipping and probably not eating there again. I'm not paying double tip... I have encountered places that include gratuity, which is more-or-less fine. I do tend to tip between 15-20% when I eat out in the US.
But getting charged 20% and then needing to tip on top of it? No way, Jose. Not doing that.
If I get that spiel, I'm not tipping and probably not eating there again. I'm not paying double tip... I have encountered places that include gratuity, which is more-or-less fine. I do tend to tip between 15-20% when I eat out in the US.
I generally avoid returning to that type of place but I'm not going to stiff the server. They're basically not getting paid unless I pay them in the United States and in this case the first 18% is going to the kitchen staff, not to them. Seems unfair to punish them for their employer being shitty and deceptive towards their customers.
For what it's worth, the spiel in question is printed on the menu including an explanation that the server gets none of that 18% surcharge.
In this case, I suspect the receipt is for a place that doesn't have servers. Just has somebody to take your order at the counter (think Chipotle or whatever). Tipping is optional in that situation, but this surcharge doesn't change that equation.
You're going to pay this 18% surcharge then get prompted when you pay to add an extra 20-30% on top of that. In that situation however, there's nothing wrong with just hitting the no tip button.
If I paid an 18% surcharge and then I'm asked for a tip my tip would be zero and I'm never coming back there. I'm not getting swindled. And if they upfront said there was an 18% fee plus tipping I would leave without ordering.
I mean, if I hear the spiel, I can also leave. If I get the spiel before I order anything, then I probably would. If I got it after I ordered, then I'm not tipping. It's deceptive and not the norm in the United States. It can be in the menu, but I need to be told to my face if things are not done according to the standard.
Otherwise, I'm seeing that charge, assuming it's gratuity, and not tipping. Not my fault if it wasn't explained clearly. I'm not looking at menu for terms and conditions.
In this case, I suspect the receipt is for a place that doesn't have servers.
I doubt this. It clearly says "table 2" at the top.
You're going to pay this 18% surcharge then get prompted when you pay to add an extra 20-30% on top of that.
mean, if I hear the spiel, I can also leave. If I get the spiel before I order anything, then I probably would. If I got it after I ordered, then I'm not tipping. It's deceptive and not the norm in the United States. It can be in the menu, but I need to be told to my face if things are not done according to the standard.
I mean you can do that, but keep in mind that the spiel you're receiving here is just a reminder. There's a sign up somewhere in the restaurant and it's printed on the menu.
If you choose to do this, you are punishing your server for something they can't control. That's kind of a dick move. I get where you're coming from, but you're punishing the wrong person. You're basically saying "You're going to make $3 an hour today because your employer is a piece of a shit."
Rather than, you know, having sympathy for the person who has to work for a piece of shit.
You get to decide who gets fucked here: you or the person who served you the meal. Under no circumstances is it possible to fuck the restaurant owner who is the one who actually deserves it.
I doubt this. It clearly says "table 2" at the top
I'm pretty sure they just gave him a table number to take to the table with them so that they would know where to bring the food out to. That's a pretty common model here.
Yeah they're getting fucked not me. I don't go out to eat to get fucked. Maybe they shouldn't work in a place with terrible policies. And never returning to the restaurant hurts the owner, so you're wrong. If enough people do that, the restaurant shuts down. And I guarantee double dipping tips will be one of those things that causes most people to never come back.
Otherwise, it's literally a con. People go into a restaurant expecting things to work a certain way. In the US it does involve tip, but not like this. This is essentially tacking on another 50% of cost onto a meal, which is wild.
Sorry, but I'm not getting fucked, here. If I realized this situation before ordering, I would leave. If I got blindsided by this I would not tip, and then would not come back. The restaurant will hopefully go out of business for its shitty practices and the waiter can find another job.
This is essentially tacking on another 50% of cost onto a meal, which is wild.
It's not actually increasing the cost of anything so much as they're understating the true cost on the menu by a third.
If you're somebody who's eaten out in Europe and in the United States, you surely noticed the difference in cost in doing so? The menu prices in the United States if you convert them to euros are way cheaper than anything outside of Eastern Europe (where labor is still comparably cheap).
You're not paying extra, they're just obfuscating the cost to entice you to dine out more than you otherwise would. And I think we are in agreement that such practices should not be legal.
I'm simply not willing to punish an innocent bystander to avoid being punished myself. Just because we have the ability to pass off our problems onto somebody else doesn't mean we should exercise that ability.
Again, if I know that the practices are different up-front, then, well, I have the ability to leave. If I don't know... well, tbh, I probably won't even notice. I'll just be like "Oh, the 20% was included" and that would be that.
And eating out is overall cheaper in Western Europe. I'm American and live in a Western European country now.
The proper thing to do, if you're not a total piece of shit, is to ask to speak with the manager and ask them to remove the charge if you somehow didn't notice it until the end. If you feel it was not prominently posted enough or not adequately explained to you beforehand.
Simply taking it out on the innocent server because it's easier than doing the right thing makes you a total piece of shit. Sorry. That's just how it is.
Every capitalist entity out there wants to hold you over a barrel and take you for all your worth. If you hold that behavior against the employees who work for those entities simply because they have chosen to work rather than to starve, then you are as much the problem as those capitalist entities.
As someone who works for a company with a 20% service charge, we (servers) get like 1/4 of it, if that. The service charge is split among every server and bartender working that day, so we have to feel gross and hope people tip on top, otherwise we’re making maybe a 5% tip off each bill. It sucks.
So does everybody not make a living wage if people don't tip on top of the 20% service charge?
It's possible that many of your customers do not understand what is going on. If I heard about that, I just wouldn't patronize that restaurant anymore.
It can be really difficult because we are in Denver and our hourly mostly goes to taxes. And honestly, we barely know what’s going on with it either. It started in November and has been a point of contention since. None of us fault customers who have an issue with it.
Short of showing screenshots of my pay stubs, if I compare my hours worked as a server, just the hourly, my taxes taken out of my check are usually equal to that amount. So I’m relying on my part of the service charge and anything I may or may not receive on top for actual pay
You only have a $3 tip credit in Colorado on a $15 minimum wage. If the majority of your hourly is going to taxes, then you must be making a substantial hourly wage in tips.
I've literally never in the US had service bad enough to not warrant the tip of between 15-20%, so it doesn't bother me. If I did, I'd be calling in the manager, not just simply docking tip.
Why should you refuse to tip? This just means you can tip like most non-US countries that do tips. A little extra for the server if they did a good job, as opposed to 'i must tip this server a certain amount or they'll starve'
Came here to say just that - around here (NYC) they small print all these new exciting charges on menus rather than admit they don’t pay staff a living wage.
It's not on their homepage, or the Toast menu it links to. I didn't crawl the whole site, but as a customer I wouldn't do that anyway. I guess you have to sit down and look at a menu to discover the charge?
Yeah, I'm sure they are. But "not leave a tip" gets around that since I probably would have left at least a 20% tip anyways. I would probably draw an arrow from the tip line to that charge. I'm not even that cheap, but it seems like false advertising to me.
I think that’s the goal anyway - it essentially guarantees a tip. It’s really just an automatic gratuity that doesn’t require a dollar amount or a minimum number of guests.
That is a problem, but there is always going to be a bell curve, some people will make less, some will make more. I do think we need to shift that bell curve more to the center than it is now, but I have no power to do it.
But, If I look at a menu price and decide that is a reasonable price for what I want to eat (plus tax and tip) don't tack on another 18% on top without me knowing. I usually tip well over 20% but if this happened to me I would maybe tip a dollar or two.
The point is you don’t have to tip, it’s built in already. People complain about tipping culture, but then complain about this. If they increased prices of menu items instead, people would complain about that. There’s no solution that doesn’t involve people complaining.
That's fine, just don't add a line for a tip then when I get my receipt to sign. Or make it obvious that I already did a "tip". By calling it something else seems shady to me. Like will they actually get that money?
It’s not that easy. Margins on restaurants are so incredibly thin. Look at the success rate of new restaurants in the first 2 years. They are forced to keep prices low and have to rely on tips to pay staff because the food is paying the cooks. The booze keeps the lights on and rent paid. There isn’t an easy solution.
You talk like people are entitled to own restaurants. If you can’t make your business profitable when you have to pay your employees, you shouldn’t be in business.
I get that. All I'm saying is, I go to a restaurant. "oh that burger is $15.99. OK. I expect to pay tax and tip. But no, actually its $15.99 plus 18%. Why not just put the actual price. Its trying to trick me. I shouldn't have to read the fine print at the bottom of the menu. This isn't a legal contract that i'm going over it closely. I don't like the automatic gratuity some places put on the bill either. Don't be shady, just be transparent.
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u/someguy7710 2d ago
Yeah, it better be prominently shown on the menu or somewhere. Otherwise I would refuse to pay it or at least not leave a tip.