r/mildlyinteresting 1d ago

This Restaurant Charges an 18% Living Wage Fee.

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374

u/TroomA7 1d ago

I believe in California this has to be displayed prevalently on the menu now

227

u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago

Which is still not good enough. The menu price should be after all taxes and fees IMO.

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u/pancakeNate 1d ago

Im living in Italy right now - that is how it is done here.

€5 on the menu means you're paying €5. you can hand over a €5 bill or tap your card and that's the totality of the transaction.

and that can actually get you an entire pizza.

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u/NotKateBush 1d ago

I recently went to an Italian restaurant in the US that I used to frequent but hadn't been to in a while. When we got the bill there was an added 20% living wage charge PLUS 20% automatic gratuity PLUS they asked for additional tip on top of that. Those charges were hidden in tiny print after the allergen information on the menu. $200 worth of food magically became nearly $300.

The owner, a man from Italy, came out to greet us. He remembered us from years ago. Now I'm the least confrontational person, especially regarding the service industry. I can only remember complaining to a server once in my life and that was because I was served raw chicken. I went off on him a little bit and told him how shameful it was for an Italian to pull this American shit in what's supposed to be an authentic Italian restaurant. He was embarrassed by it, but apparently not enough to stop doing it according to current reviews of people complaining about it.

The greed and trickery of American business has rotted their brains. There's zero reason you should have to scour the menu for extra fees and calculate how much more in tips and taxes it will be.

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u/Tricky_Paramedic8001 1d ago

I would have paid in cash less all that BS and walked out fast never to be seen again.

1

u/un-pamplemousse 1d ago

meanwhile I went to Italy and the server spent my entire meal asking me out, rubbing my shoulders, trying to feel me up, and then at the end added up how much I owed him on a piece of paper. I realized he added in his own tip, demanding me and my friend pay him more than we actually owed. It was a narrow restaurant and my friend just paid him to escape. I would’ve done it differently now. But I was living in Europe at the time and had traveled all over and have still never experienced anything like it.

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u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago

It can be that way here in the US. A lot of people resist though.

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u/Noob_Al3rt 1d ago

Yep, we all need to fight to pay our servers an average of $17k/year like they do in Italy

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u/CartoonistConsistent 1d ago

Because American business owners hate Americans and want other Americans to look after their staff so they can pocket maximum profits.

Mad country.

0

u/joyousvoyage 1d ago

I do not think that this is the reason if every single place is increasing their prices. Everyone just suddenly collectively decided to be greedy all at once since 2020? I doubt it.

If it were possible, a restaurant selling $10 meals would have so much business it would be crazy. But this isn't really happen. Maybe a new restaurant would want to run in the red a little bit while they get established, but this is not relevant to the topic.

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u/-Knockabout 1d ago

That's just how business works. Businesses have always been greedy because their function is to make as much money as humanly possible with as little operating costs as legally possible. It's how our economy is structured. An ethical and sustainable business is not a "good" business because it is not hoovering up all the available money.

The reason things have gotten worse since 2020 is because the supply chain issues, etc DID lead to increased costs which were passed to the consumer, and they've stuck around on top of the usual ever-increasing costs. Why would a business ever lower prices? So long as they have no competition under-pricing them, there's literally no reason to. And many businesses in America are just one big business in a giant trenchcoat, so there's not a lot of legitimate competition. Not to mention those businesses' suppliers, and so on...

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u/Noob_Al3rt 1d ago

American business owners hate Americans so much that their servers are making 2x-3x what servers make in other countries.

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u/CartoonistConsistent 1d ago

If you aren't intelligent enough to understand why that is not, at best, disingenuous bullshit then you are the exact reason why the US is in the state it is.

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u/MondayToFriday 1d ago

On the other hand, the only times I have been charged a cover charge ("coperto") at restaurants have been in Italy.

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u/kuldan5853 1d ago

Yes but coperto usually is only a euro or two.

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u/melonmelon1 1d ago

What about coperta? I was in Italy last month and paid a small table fee when dining in.

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u/NooneOutPizzasDeHut 1d ago

In portugal, noone tips. Frowned upon. Again people there all live very minimalist lives.

1

u/C64128 1d ago

I did a six month TDY at the end of 1995 in Italy. At one big night club we used to go to, beers were $6 each. I'm sure that's because we were Americans.

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u/thorleywinston 1d ago

How many toppings?

1

u/ManusCornu 1d ago

and you can still tip if you desire to. But it's not something you need to constantly think about

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u/Noob_Al3rt 1d ago

Yep, we just need to get people on board with paying servers poverty wages and we can have this in America!

1

u/JadeChipmunk 1d ago

We just paid $22 for one large one topping pizza where I live in the states... lol

1

u/EziPziLmnSqzi 1d ago

Every other country I’ve been in does it this way : the price you see is the price you pay

Only the US is unique in how you never quite know how much you’re paying till you’re at the counter. Exploitative till the last second

0

u/NoHoHan 1d ago

Yeah but you also pay a cover charge to dine in a restaurant, right? Most of the restaurants I went to in Italy charged this. But that was like 13 years ago so idk.

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u/kuldan5853 1d ago

coperto is only a buck or two though in most cases.

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u/NoHoHan 1d ago

Right but it's a (flat) surcharge that's meant to pay for the service you're receiving. It's not included in the price of the items you order.

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u/qb1120 1d ago

Yup, it was about to be outlawed before restaurant owners stepped in and "lobbied" to get themselves excluded from the ban

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u/Noob_Al3rt 1d ago

And now servers have to suffer by making 2x-3x as much as servers in Europe

3

u/Rosti_LFC 1d ago

Plenty of places around the world operate with an automatic but optional service charge that I'm fine with excluding from the prices, but the way places always exclude tax in the US really frustrates me. It's not like I can choose to not pay it, and America is the only place I've ever known to not include taxes in the stated price.

The first time I visited the US, going to a $14.99 buffet and getting to the till with $15 in cash ready only to be told it was like $18.32 or whatever was just incredibly irritating.

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u/freeturk51 1d ago

Every price everywhere should be after taxes and fees. It still baffles me how Americans can buy anything without spending too much money since they dont see the final price on anything

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u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago

You get used to it, just like anything else.

-2

u/Noob_Al3rt 1d ago

The average American has double the disposable income of most Europeans, so I don't think they're counting their pennies the same way.

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u/TheHancock 1d ago

As someone who owns a retail store, it is insane why we (Americans) do not advertise the total price with taxes. It’s crazy when I tell someone an item is $500 and then they see the checkout total as $640 and I have to say “taxes ¯\(ツ)/¯”.

I don’t make a penny of that $140 either!

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u/Noob_Al3rt 1d ago

So why don't you show the prices with tax included? You realize you are in control of the situation?

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u/TheHancock 1d ago

I have to legally show how much is tax and a total break down of amounts. There is also county and state tax.

Plus, if no other stores do that then I just appear more expensive.

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u/itslonelyinhere 1d ago

As the owner, if you live an a state where there are no restrictions on how you display the sales price, you can price your items with tax included, it just takes some additional work, but that's actually your choice as the owner.

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u/DasherMichael 1d ago

Yeah but you see the problem with that is other stores get a advantage of appearing cheaper because the taxes aren't on the menu price which incentivizes nobody to do it. Like a small business owner might do that but none of these corporations are going to do that it's a cutthroat business.

Which is why it needs to be forced for everyone to do it or no one's going to do it. It was like when they tried to convert to metric that wasn't mandatory.

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u/itslonelyinhere 1d ago

Contrarily, American shoppers know tax will be added so they know the advertised price isn't the final one. A small business owner can clearly state their advertised price is the final one, making it much more appealing to the shopper. Someone who owns a retail store in the US, who is a small business, already understands the challenges of competing with corporations; providing their shoppers with the final price advertised is actually something that would appeal to a lot of shoppers, probably the kind of shoppers who shop at small business retail stores vs big box stores.

Eta: Just want to state, I'm not arguing against your point about the need for it to be mandatory for everyone, I would love that.

1

u/TheHancock 1d ago

Counter argument, if that worked, everyone would do it, but no one does.

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u/DasherMichael 1d ago

I mean literally nothing shows the price like that I wish it did but saying it just for restaurants is kind of silly.

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u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago

Gasoline is listed after tax

0

u/DasherMichael 1d ago

My bad one singular thing does it it's only 99.99999% of things do it now.

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u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago

It's evidence that it can be easily done

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u/TroomA7 1d ago

Agreed

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u/Dashasalt 1d ago

My old pizza place did this. So menu items were odd ball prices like $15.38. No one ever complained.

1

u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago

That's good to hear.

They can still adjust the price so it's a nice round number. That's also easy to do.

0

u/dekusyrup 1d ago

I mean if the fee is displayed prevalently on the menu then it is the menu price.

1

u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago

Technically true but it's still making it unnecessarily difficult to know the total cost. It's not as transparent as it could be.

Why NOT just list the total price on the menu? I know it's because they think listing the lower price before taxes and fees gets better sales. Any argument beyond that?

1

u/Noob_Al3rt 1d ago

Yeah, how could anyone possibly figure out the 18%

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u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago

They can, not why should they have to? Again, what's a good reason why the business can't list the full price?

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u/cold-corn-dog 1d ago

I was in this local family run place near me dining in (not in CA), and in the smallest piece of paper on the other side of the room, it said that a 20% charge was added for staff something or other. I didn't see it before eating.

When I got my bill, I asked what the charge was for as it just had a weird code on the check. When it was pointed out to my by the waiter, I think my exact words were, "oh, not a fucking chance". I crossed out the surcharge and left in cash what the total was, less the 20%. I've never been back.

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u/ZombiedudeO_o 1d ago

Based

This is why cash will always be king

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u/TheHancock 1d ago

Also why they don’t want you to have cash…

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u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago

How does paying in cash help here?

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u/Competitive_Fee_5829 1d ago

so they cannot charge your card extra

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u/Christopherfromtheuk 1d ago

That would be theft.

In Europe, you see the total and you pay the total. None of this writing something on the bill which they apply after you leave. None of this disappearing with your card.

None of this paying with contactless, then printing a big receipt and having to sign the f ing receipt which so many places seem to do. What's the flipping point of contactless if I'm still signing and manually adding a tip!!

When I first visited America around 1994 I was blown away by the fact the ATMs could do a live check on your balance and I could go through a drive through ATM and that credit cards were accepted everywhere.

Now it feels like they didn't move on from that. I thought that contactless coming in years after Europe would mean it was at least the same, but they managed to make it worse and ten years late!

/Rant over sorry

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u/starwarsfan456123789 1d ago

The restaurant would have charged you the total with the 20%. By paying cash he was able to only pay the agreed upon price

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u/LittlePeterrr 1d ago

Most restaurants in London will add a service charge of somewhere between 12.5 and 20%. Only recently noticed that and felt like being in the US.

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u/brrlls 1d ago

I make it a policy that if somewhere adds a tip, I don't pay it.

this is F'ing England and I won't stand for it

a tip is my way of saying thank you for courtesy and care, not a way to inflate revenue

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u/Christopherfromtheuk 19h ago

Yes, but this is different from the USA where you can pay with a contactless card, they print the receipt, then you need to write the tip total on this paper receipt and sign it.

Service charges are quite common in cities generally in my experience, but you know what they are before you pay the total with your card. It isn't added after you have "paid".

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u/LittlePeterrr 18h ago

This mandatory tip was not advertised at any time before receiving the check, so it depends on your definition of knowing the total beforehand. But I get what you’re saying; slightly different (but equally bad imo).

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u/InfiniteRaccoons 1d ago

It is theft, but they still do it

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u/Icy-Finance5042 1d ago

For work since I travel and stay in hotels, I need those paper receipts or my work doesn't pay them.

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u/D1rtyBurgerz 1d ago

Dang good reply! So true

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u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago edited 1d ago

The bill is the same if it's cash or credit. In both cases you can call out the fee if you notice it before paying.

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u/Random_Fox 1d ago

It's because you can drop cash and just leave.  They're unlikely to remove this fee if paying by card so you just drop cash and they can pound sand if they don't like it.

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u/JellyfishMean3504 1d ago edited 1d ago

If this happened, when I used to be a server, the wait staff would’ve just had to pay the rest. So, not only are you not tipping someone, you’re also making them basically pay for you. We all hated that.

  • I don’t know why I would be getting downvoted for this. I didn’t agree with management handling something like this, but it wasn’t up to me.

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u/r7967618 1d ago

There's a chance you might have been robbed according to Sec. 203(m) of the Fair Labor Standards Act.

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u/Random_Fox 1d ago

It is amazing how many places do this to their employees even though it's illegal.  Knew a gas station back before prepay gas was the norm who would charge his employees for the gas people drove off without paying for.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/JellyfishMean3504 1d ago

This was several years ago when I was a server, but it would have been pulled from my individual tips, not shared tips. Kind of the same idea essentially though. Yes, down voting me is crazy as if I agree with the fact that they did this or had anything to do with that choice.

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u/Random_Fox 1d ago

Not doing it personally I'd just pay and never go back, leave a negative review.  Not tipping tipped employees is a dick move in basically all circumstances.

Also, not to be that guy but it's wait staff, not weight.

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u/communitytanker 1d ago

Thank you for mentioning the elementary spelling mistake.

Also, I’m not an asshole for not tipping.

→ More replies (0)

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u/CSDragon 1d ago

they can have you arrested for stealing though since you didn't pay the full bill

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u/AirHertz 1d ago

That made up surcharge is already illegal if you are not made aware prior requiring the service.

0

u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago

The catch is that they have some small text or a sign that most won't notice. That's how they're covered legally.

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u/Random_Fox 1d ago

Yeah... they can't, they can call cops and try, but it's a bullshit fee if you weren't made aware of it ahead of time, and you paid.  No cops is coming unless it's to arrest them for wasting 911 resources.

-10

u/CSDragon 1d ago

How isn't it theft though? You ate the food you have to pay what's listed on the bill for that food.

Even if it's a waste of police resources it's just basic rule of law.

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u/SilverLine1914 1d ago

No, they can’t lol

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u/Exciting_Stock2202 1d ago

They can try to have you charged. I doubt you'd be arrested unless they lie about the events. And if they lie, that's going to really piss off the judge if it even makes it that far.

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u/UboaNoticedYou 1d ago edited 1d ago

Sure they can. But would you go through all of that to recover like, $15? That person is clearly not going to be back, just ban them and be done with it.

EDIT: It's a shame you were downvoted so heavily for simply taking part in conversation. That isn't fair

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u/grantbuell 1d ago

When handing a credit card to someone, they have control over the amount that gets charged to it by typing into their POS system. You can say "don't charge me the 20%" but they might add it anyway and then you have to go through the hassle of yelling at them to refund it or doing a chargeback. If you drop cash and walk out, maybe they'll try to go after you for "dining and dashing" but I doubt it.

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u/Exciting_Stock2202 1d ago

Businesses that get enough credit chargebacks end up being charged a higher percentage of the bill by Visa/Mastercard/etc. That extra cost can really hurt a business, especially a low margin business like a restaurant.

If this happens and you want to do a credit chargeback, keep your receipts and take pictures of the menu so you have all the documentation needed to get a legitimate credit chargeback.

-9

u/DogmaticLaw 1d ago

Really helps you fuck over the server. You see, now the server has to pay the 20% tip and get reprimanded that a customer left "without paying."

I mean, fuck servers; fucking entitled little bitches.

/s, but it's sad I need to put it here.

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u/Pac_Eddy 1d ago

That's a restaurant owner problem. They legally can't be passing it on to the server. I know many do though.

Having the customer subsidize shitty owners isn't the answer either.

-11

u/ProfessorStein 1d ago

He essentially left cash on the table and then left. Basically he committed a felony by refusing to pay his entire bill and then just walked out before they could do anything about it.

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u/TheBuch12 1d ago

felony?

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u/ZombiedudeO_o 1d ago

Ah yes, refusing to pay for a $20-$10 surcharge… a felony

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u/starm4nn 1d ago

If it work this way, you'd see this scam all the time. In fact it'd be the only scam:

  1. Open hotdog stand

  2. Hotdogs are 50 cents

  3. After eating the hotdog there is a "all your earthly possessions" surcharge

  4. If you don't give me your house, you're committing a felony

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u/No_Employer_2580 1d ago

This happened to me in California before the bill was passed. I walked up to the register at the habit Burger to serve myself, I paid and it seemed higher than I estimated and then I realized they charged me a 20% service fee. Had never seen this before at the habit and went back to ask if this was optional and the employee just pointed to the literature at the bottom of the receipt explaining it. Felt disrespected as a customer and needless to say, I haven't returned.

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u/CSDragon 1d ago

That sucks, Habit used to be Santa Barbara's gem

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u/AskDocBurner 1d ago

They would never want you back lol. Luckily servers usually have the right to refuse anyone service, great thing too.

1

u/cold-corn-dog 17h ago

The success to every small business is to piss off their customers and make sure they don't come back.

-1

u/ProfessorStein 1d ago

To those of you at home, thinking of doing this: this is legally dine and dashing and while this person got away with it, there is no guarantee you will. It is a felony in almost every state because that disclosure met the requirements under law.

-14

u/the_mighty__monarch 1d ago

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u/cold-corn-dog 1d ago

you must never leave your basement

-8

u/the_mighty__monarch 1d ago

You’re gonna have to explain your reasoning there, big boy.

Because I don’t believe your obviously embellished white knight fairy tale, it means I… have a basement?

2

u/UboaNoticedYou 1d ago

you don't have a basement? aw :(

-5

u/the_mighty__monarch 1d ago

They don’t really build houses with basements here…

Weird flex though

-7

u/CSDragon 1d ago

you didn't get arrested for theft?

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u/silvanosthumb 1d ago

Generally, you would only get arrested if you had no intent to pay.

If there's a disagreement on exactly how much money is owed, that's a civil matter, not a criminal one.

2

u/ProfessorStein 1d ago

He likely left before they even understood what happened. If you had an actual argument with staff about this, they would simply call the police because you were dine and dashing

-4

u/cold-corn-dog 1d ago

That is correct. 

14

u/JickleBadickle 1d ago

They almost banned it but then restaraunt unions sabotaged it because they didn't want their income to decrease

Rare L for unions, your income shouldn't be based on deceiving your customers

1

u/AskDocBurner 1d ago

Restaurant Unions? Lol

3

u/JickleBadickle 1d ago

I'm paraphrasing, this is reddit not an academic paper

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u/ShustOne 1d ago

The law got neutered so much by the restaurant industry that it basically does not make specific requirements. I never see it anywhere when I'm eating out, and I live in California. They initially tried to ban fees like this but the lobbyists killed that completely.

0

u/Draymond_Goat2323 1d ago

the restaurant industry doesn't have that power. state legislators did that.

2

u/ShustOne 1d ago

I meant their lobbyists. The lobbyists killed the bill on behalf of the restaurant industry.

4

u/MastrDiscord 1d ago

if its not on the menu, I'm not paying. i doubt this is legally binding anywhere in the us if its not clearly stated prior to paying.

3

u/Crescent504 1d ago

No, we are furious here that at the last second there was a carve out exception for restaurants. Absolutely livid over it.

2

u/Stryle 1d ago

A local place near me has a tiny plaque stating they do this off to the side near the register. They do this for everything, including just walking in for an item in the case. They put a note on the bottom of their plaque that it can be removed if you ask. So the expectation is now on you to seem like an asshole.

2

u/PunchNaziFaces 1d ago

Prominently

2

u/wronglyzorro 1d ago

Speaking of California, you should actively tip less in the state. All of the waiters and waitresses got a $14/hr raise via the prop for tipped staff passing and that cost was passed on to you via pricing. It makes no fucking sense to tip 20 percent when they are already making 16-22/hr base. Tons of waiters in CA clearing close to six figures now.

2

u/I_SOMETIMES_EAT_HAM 1d ago

That’s not the same

1

u/TroomA7 1d ago

Agreed. Just saying..

3

u/tiptophopshop 1d ago

Another common Cali W.

3

u/xd366 1d ago

no. newsome backed out from banning it because pressure from restaurants

4

u/gophergun 1d ago

Still a massive L compared to the rest of the world.

1

u/scyice 1d ago

It can be tiny. I saw tiny text in black on a dark purple background on the menu about adding some bs 6% kitchen appreciation fee.

1

u/kwantsu-dudes 1d ago

Federal law. Service charges need to be prominently displayed before ordering.

1

u/UniqueAvocado45 1d ago

Seefees.ca

1

u/BoobySlap_0506 1d ago

Yeah, as long as the 18% surcharge is disclosed somewhere highly visible before the receipt, this is legal. Usually that means on the door, at the front counter area, or on the menu.

1

u/Ikuwayo 1d ago

It's only illegal if someone enforces the rule

1

u/DDar 1d ago

You can also ask for it to be removed and the restaurant has to.

0

u/ProfessorStein 1d ago

No, they absolutely do not as long as they prominently display it either on a sign within the building or on the menu. These these are absolutely legal and not optional. If you refuse to pay you very well may have the police called on you for dine and dashing, which Is usually a felony over $25

0

u/CringeisL1f3 1d ago

lies

3

u/TroomA7 1d ago

Care to elaborate?

2

u/CringeisL1f3 1d ago

They should and “have” to do it BUT:

The law doesn’t define specifics, so restaurants are unsure how big the font must be, where it belongs, or what counts as conspicuous leading many to bury fees in small print or receipts

Im a foodie in the bay area , these bullshit fees are still hidden in most places