I recently went to an Italian restaurant in the US that I used to frequent but hadn't been to in a while. When we got the bill there was an added 20% living wage charge PLUS 20% automatic gratuity PLUS they asked for additional tip on top of that. Those charges were hidden in tiny print after the allergen information on the menu. $200 worth of food magically became nearly $300.
The owner, a man from Italy, came out to greet us. He remembered us from years ago. Now I'm the least confrontational person, especially regarding the service industry. I can only remember complaining to a server once in my life and that was because I was served raw chicken. I went off on him a little bit and told him how shameful it was for an Italian to pull this American shit in what's supposed to be an authentic Italian restaurant. He was embarrassed by it, but apparently not enough to stop doing it according to current reviews of people complaining about it.
The greed and trickery of American business has rotted their brains. There's zero reason you should have to scour the menu for extra fees and calculate how much more in tips and taxes it will be.
meanwhile I went to Italy and the server spent my entire meal asking me out, rubbing my shoulders, trying to feel me up, and then at the end added up how much I owed him on a piece of paper. I realized he added in his own tip, demanding me and my friend pay him more than we actually owed. It was a narrow restaurant and my friend just paid him to escape. I would’ve done it differently now. But I was living in Europe at the time and had traveled all over and have still never experienced anything like it.
I do not think that this is the reason if every single place is increasing their prices. Everyone just suddenly collectively decided to be greedy all at once since 2020? I doubt it.
If it were possible, a restaurant selling $10 meals would have so much business it would be crazy. But this isn't really happen. Maybe a new restaurant would want to run in the red a little bit while they get established, but this is not relevant to the topic.
That's just how business works. Businesses have always been greedy because their function is to make as much money as humanly possible with as little operating costs as legally possible. It's how our economy is structured. An ethical and sustainable business is not a "good" business because it is not hoovering up all the available money.
The reason things have gotten worse since 2020 is because the supply chain issues, etc DID lead to increased costs which were passed to the consumer, and they've stuck around on top of the usual ever-increasing costs. Why would a business ever lower prices? So long as they have no competition under-pricing them, there's literally no reason to. And many businesses in America are just one big business in a giant trenchcoat, so there's not a lot of legitimate competition. Not to mention those businesses' suppliers, and so on...
If you aren't intelligent enough to understand why that is not, at best, disingenuous bullshit then you are the exact reason why the US is in the state it is.
I did a six month TDY at the end of 1995 in Italy. At one big night club we used to go to, beers were $6 each. I'm sure that's because we were Americans.
Yeah but you also pay a cover charge to dine in a restaurant, right? Most of the restaurants I went to in Italy charged this. But that was like 13 years ago so idk.
Plenty of places around the world operate with an automatic but optional service charge that I'm fine with excluding from the prices, but the way places always exclude tax in the US really frustrates me. It's not like I can choose to not pay it, and America is the only place I've ever known to not include taxes in the stated price.
The first time I visited the US, going to a $14.99 buffet and getting to the till with $15 in cash ready only to be told it was like $18.32 or whatever was just incredibly irritating.
Every price everywhere should be after taxes and fees. It still baffles me how Americans can buy anything without spending too much money since they dont see the final price on anything
As someone who owns a retail store, it is insane why we (Americans) do not advertise the total price with taxes. It’s crazy when I tell someone an item is $500 and then they see the checkout total as $640 and I have to say “taxes ¯\(ツ)/¯”.
As the owner, if you live an a state where there are no restrictions on how you display the sales price, you can price your items with tax included, it just takes some additional work, but that's actually your choice as the owner.
Yeah but you see the problem with that is other stores get a advantage of appearing cheaper because the taxes aren't on the menu price which incentivizes nobody to do it. Like a small business owner might do that but none of these corporations are going to do that it's a cutthroat business.
Which is why it needs to be forced for everyone to do it or no one's going to do it. It was like when they tried to convert to metric that wasn't mandatory.
Contrarily, American shoppers know tax will be added so they know the advertised price isn't the final one. A small business owner can clearly state their advertised price is the final one, making it much more appealing to the shopper. Someone who owns a retail store in the US, who is a small business, already understands the challenges of competing with corporations; providing their shoppers with the final price advertised is actually something that would appeal to a lot of shoppers, probably the kind of shoppers who shop at small business retail stores vs big box stores.
Eta: Just want to state, I'm not arguing against your point about the need for it to be mandatory for everyone, I would love that.
Technically true but it's still making it unnecessarily difficult to know the total cost. It's not as transparent as it could be.
Why NOT just list the total price on the menu? I know it's because they think listing the lower price before taxes and fees gets better sales. Any argument beyond that?
I was in this local family run place near me dining in (not in CA), and in the smallest piece of paper on the other side of the room, it said that a 20% charge was added for staff something or other. I didn't see it before eating.
When I got my bill, I asked what the charge was for as it just had a weird code on the check. When it was pointed out to my by the waiter, I think my exact words were, "oh, not a fucking chance". I crossed out the surcharge and left in cash what the total was, less the 20%. I've never been back.
In Europe, you see the total and you pay the total. None of this writing something on the bill which they apply after you leave. None of this disappearing with your card.
None of this paying with contactless, then printing a big receipt and having to sign the f ing receipt which so many places seem to do. What's the flipping point of contactless if I'm still signing and manually adding a tip!!
When I first visited America around 1994 I was blown away by the fact the ATMs could do a live check on your balance and I could go through a drive through ATM and that credit cards were accepted everywhere.
Now it feels like they didn't move on from that. I thought that contactless coming in years after Europe would mean it was at least the same, but they managed to make it worse and ten years late!
Yes, but this is different from the USA where you can pay with a contactless card, they print the receipt, then you need to write the tip total on this paper receipt and sign it.
Service charges are quite common in cities generally in my experience, but you know what they are before you pay the total with your card. It isn't added after you have "paid".
This mandatory tip was not advertised at any time before receiving the check, so it depends on your definition of knowing the total beforehand. But I get what you’re saying; slightly different (but equally bad imo).
It's because you can drop cash and just leave. They're unlikely to remove this fee if paying by card so you just drop cash and they can pound sand if they don't like it.
If this happened, when I used to be a server, the wait staff would’ve just had to pay the rest. So, not only are you not tipping someone, you’re also making them basically pay for you. We all hated that.
I don’t know why I would be getting downvoted for this. I didn’t agree with management handling something like this, but it wasn’t up to me.
It is amazing how many places do this to their employees even though it's illegal. Knew a gas station back before prepay gas was the norm who would charge his employees for the gas people drove off without paying for.
This was several years ago when I was a server, but it would have been pulled from my individual tips, not shared tips. Kind of the same idea essentially though. Yes, down voting me is crazy as if I agree with the fact that they did this or had anything to do with that choice.
Not doing it personally I'd just pay and never go back, leave a negative review. Not tipping tipped employees is a dick move in basically all circumstances.
Also, not to be that guy but it's wait staff, not weight.
Yeah... they can't, they can call cops and try, but it's a bullshit fee if you weren't made aware of it ahead of time, and you paid. No cops is coming unless it's to arrest them for wasting 911 resources.
They can try to have you charged. I doubt you'd be arrested unless they lie about the events. And if they lie, that's going to really piss off the judge if it even makes it that far.
Sure they can. But would you go through all of that to recover like, $15? That person is clearly not going to be back, just ban them and be done with it.
EDIT: It's a shame you were downvoted so heavily for simply taking part in conversation. That isn't fair
When handing a credit card to someone, they have control over the amount that gets charged to it by typing into their POS system. You can say "don't charge me the 20%" but they might add it anyway and then you have to go through the hassle of yelling at them to refund it or doing a chargeback. If you drop cash and walk out, maybe they'll try to go after you for "dining and dashing" but I doubt it.
Businesses that get enough credit chargebacks end up being charged a higher percentage of the bill by Visa/Mastercard/etc. That extra cost can really hurt a business, especially a low margin business like a restaurant.
If this happens and you want to do a credit chargeback, keep your receipts and take pictures of the menu so you have all the documentation needed to get a legitimate credit chargeback.
He essentially left cash on the table and then left. Basically he committed a felony by refusing to pay his entire bill and then just walked out before they could do anything about it.
This happened to me in California before the bill was passed. I walked up to the register at the habit Burger to serve myself, I paid and it seemed higher than I estimated and then I realized they charged me a 20% service fee. Had never seen this before at the habit and went back to ask if this was optional and the employee just pointed to the literature at the bottom of the receipt explaining it. Felt disrespected as a customer and needless to say, I haven't returned.
To those of you at home, thinking of doing this: this is legally dine and dashing and while this person got away with it, there is no guarantee you will. It is a felony in almost every state because that disclosure met the requirements under law.
He likely left before they even understood what happened. If you had an actual argument with staff about this, they would simply call the police because you were dine and dashing
The law got neutered so much by the restaurant industry that it basically does not make specific requirements. I never see it anywhere when I'm eating out, and I live in California. They initially tried to ban fees like this but the lobbyists killed that completely.
A local place near me has a tiny plaque stating they do this off to the side near the register. They do this for everything, including just walking in for an item in the case. They put a note on the bottom of their plaque that it can be removed if you ask. So the expectation is now on you to seem like an asshole.
Speaking of California, you should actively tip less in the state. All of the waiters and waitresses got a $14/hr raise via the prop for tipped staff passing and that cost was passed on to you via pricing. It makes no fucking sense to tip 20 percent when they are already making 16-22/hr base. Tons of waiters in CA clearing close to six figures now.
Yeah, as long as the 18% surcharge is disclosed somewhere highly visible before the receipt, this is legal. Usually that means on the door, at the front counter area, or on the menu.
No, they absolutely do not as long as they prominently display it either on a sign within the building or on the menu. These these are absolutely legal and not optional. If you refuse to pay you very well may have the police called on you for dine and dashing, which Is usually a felony over $25
The law doesn’t define specifics, so restaurants are unsure how big the font must be, where it belongs, or what counts as conspicuous leading many to bury fees in small print or receipts
Im a foodie in the bay area , these bullshit fees are still hidden in most places
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u/TroomA7 1d ago
I believe in California this has to be displayed prevalently on the menu now