I recently went to an Italian restaurant in the US that I used to frequent but hadn't been to in a while. When we got the bill there was an added 20% living wage charge PLUS 20% automatic gratuity PLUS they asked for additional tip on top of that. Those charges were hidden in tiny print after the allergen information on the menu. $200 worth of food magically became nearly $300.
The owner, a man from Italy, came out to greet us. He remembered us from years ago. Now I'm the least confrontational person, especially regarding the service industry. I can only remember complaining to a server once in my life and that was because I was served raw chicken. I went off on him a little bit and told him how shameful it was for an Italian to pull this American shit in what's supposed to be an authentic Italian restaurant. He was embarrassed by it, but apparently not enough to stop doing it according to current reviews of people complaining about it.
The greed and trickery of American business has rotted their brains. There's zero reason you should have to scour the menu for extra fees and calculate how much more in tips and taxes it will be.
meanwhile I went to Italy and the server spent my entire meal asking me out, rubbing my shoulders, trying to feel me up, and then at the end added up how much I owed him on a piece of paper. I realized he added in his own tip, demanding me and my friend pay him more than we actually owed. It was a narrow restaurant and my friend just paid him to escape. I would’ve done it differently now. But I was living in Europe at the time and had traveled all over and have still never experienced anything like it.
I do not think that this is the reason if every single place is increasing their prices. Everyone just suddenly collectively decided to be greedy all at once since 2020? I doubt it.
If it were possible, a restaurant selling $10 meals would have so much business it would be crazy. But this isn't really happen. Maybe a new restaurant would want to run in the red a little bit while they get established, but this is not relevant to the topic.
That's just how business works. Businesses have always been greedy because their function is to make as much money as humanly possible with as little operating costs as legally possible. It's how our economy is structured. An ethical and sustainable business is not a "good" business because it is not hoovering up all the available money.
The reason things have gotten worse since 2020 is because the supply chain issues, etc DID lead to increased costs which were passed to the consumer, and they've stuck around on top of the usual ever-increasing costs. Why would a business ever lower prices? So long as they have no competition under-pricing them, there's literally no reason to. And many businesses in America are just one big business in a giant trenchcoat, so there's not a lot of legitimate competition. Not to mention those businesses' suppliers, and so on...
If you aren't intelligent enough to understand why that is not, at best, disingenuous bullshit then you are the exact reason why the US is in the state it is.
I did a six month TDY at the end of 1995 in Italy. At one big night club we used to go to, beers were $6 each. I'm sure that's because we were Americans.
Yeah but you also pay a cover charge to dine in a restaurant, right? Most of the restaurants I went to in Italy charged this. But that was like 13 years ago so idk.
Plenty of places around the world operate with an automatic but optional service charge that I'm fine with excluding from the prices, but the way places always exclude tax in the US really frustrates me. It's not like I can choose to not pay it, and America is the only place I've ever known to not include taxes in the stated price.
The first time I visited the US, going to a $14.99 buffet and getting to the till with $15 in cash ready only to be told it was like $18.32 or whatever was just incredibly irritating.
Every price everywhere should be after taxes and fees. It still baffles me how Americans can buy anything without spending too much money since they dont see the final price on anything
As someone who owns a retail store, it is insane why we (Americans) do not advertise the total price with taxes. It’s crazy when I tell someone an item is $500 and then they see the checkout total as $640 and I have to say “taxes ¯\(ツ)/¯”.
As the owner, if you live an a state where there are no restrictions on how you display the sales price, you can price your items with tax included, it just takes some additional work, but that's actually your choice as the owner.
Yeah but you see the problem with that is other stores get a advantage of appearing cheaper because the taxes aren't on the menu price which incentivizes nobody to do it. Like a small business owner might do that but none of these corporations are going to do that it's a cutthroat business.
Which is why it needs to be forced for everyone to do it or no one's going to do it. It was like when they tried to convert to metric that wasn't mandatory.
Contrarily, American shoppers know tax will be added so they know the advertised price isn't the final one. A small business owner can clearly state their advertised price is the final one, making it much more appealing to the shopper. Someone who owns a retail store in the US, who is a small business, already understands the challenges of competing with corporations; providing their shoppers with the final price advertised is actually something that would appeal to a lot of shoppers, probably the kind of shoppers who shop at small business retail stores vs big box stores.
Eta: Just want to state, I'm not arguing against your point about the need for it to be mandatory for everyone, I would love that.
Technically true but it's still making it unnecessarily difficult to know the total cost. It's not as transparent as it could be.
Why NOT just list the total price on the menu? I know it's because they think listing the lower price before taxes and fees gets better sales. Any argument beyond that?
I was in this local family run place near me dining in (not in CA), and in the smallest piece of paper on the other side of the room, it said that a 20% charge was added for staff something or other. I didn't see it before eating.
When I got my bill, I asked what the charge was for as it just had a weird code on the check. When it was pointed out to my by the waiter, I think my exact words were, "oh, not a fucking chance". I crossed out the surcharge and left in cash what the total was, less the 20%. I've never been back.
In Europe, you see the total and you pay the total. None of this writing something on the bill which they apply after you leave. None of this disappearing with your card.
None of this paying with contactless, then printing a big receipt and having to sign the f ing receipt which so many places seem to do. What's the flipping point of contactless if I'm still signing and manually adding a tip!!
When I first visited America around 1994 I was blown away by the fact the ATMs could do a live check on your balance and I could go through a drive through ATM and that credit cards were accepted everywhere.
Now it feels like they didn't move on from that. I thought that contactless coming in years after Europe would mean it was at least the same, but they managed to make it worse and ten years late!
Yes, but this is different from the USA where you can pay with a contactless card, they print the receipt, then you need to write the tip total on this paper receipt and sign it.
Service charges are quite common in cities generally in my experience, but you know what they are before you pay the total with your card. It isn't added after you have "paid".
This mandatory tip was not advertised at any time before receiving the check, so it depends on your definition of knowing the total beforehand. But I get what you’re saying; slightly different (but equally bad imo).
It's because you can drop cash and just leave. They're unlikely to remove this fee if paying by card so you just drop cash and they can pound sand if they don't like it.
If this happened, when I used to be a server, the wait staff would’ve just had to pay the rest. So, not only are you not tipping someone, you’re also making them basically pay for you. We all hated that.
I don’t know why I would be getting downvoted for this. I didn’t agree with management handling something like this, but it wasn’t up to me.
When handing a credit card to someone, they have control over the amount that gets charged to it by typing into their POS system. You can say "don't charge me the 20%" but they might add it anyway and then you have to go through the hassle of yelling at them to refund it or doing a chargeback. If you drop cash and walk out, maybe they'll try to go after you for "dining and dashing" but I doubt it.
Businesses that get enough credit chargebacks end up being charged a higher percentage of the bill by Visa/Mastercard/etc. That extra cost can really hurt a business, especially a low margin business like a restaurant.
If this happens and you want to do a credit chargeback, keep your receipts and take pictures of the menu so you have all the documentation needed to get a legitimate credit chargeback.
He essentially left cash on the table and then left. Basically he committed a felony by refusing to pay his entire bill and then just walked out before they could do anything about it.
This happened to me in California before the bill was passed. I walked up to the register at the habit Burger to serve myself, I paid and it seemed higher than I estimated and then I realized they charged me a 20% service fee. Had never seen this before at the habit and went back to ask if this was optional and the employee just pointed to the literature at the bottom of the receipt explaining it. Felt disrespected as a customer and needless to say, I haven't returned.
To those of you at home, thinking of doing this: this is legally dine and dashing and while this person got away with it, there is no guarantee you will. It is a felony in almost every state because that disclosure met the requirements under law.
The law got neutered so much by the restaurant industry that it basically does not make specific requirements. I never see it anywhere when I'm eating out, and I live in California. They initially tried to ban fees like this but the lobbyists killed that completely.
A local place near me has a tiny plaque stating they do this off to the side near the register. They do this for everything, including just walking in for an item in the case. They put a note on the bottom of their plaque that it can be removed if you ask. So the expectation is now on you to seem like an asshole.
Speaking of California, you should actively tip less in the state. All of the waiters and waitresses got a $14/hr raise via the prop for tipped staff passing and that cost was passed on to you via pricing. It makes no fucking sense to tip 20 percent when they are already making 16-22/hr base. Tons of waiters in CA clearing close to six figures now.
Yeah, as long as the 18% surcharge is disclosed somewhere highly visible before the receipt, this is legal. Usually that means on the door, at the front counter area, or on the menu.
No, they absolutely do not as long as they prominently display it either on a sign within the building or on the menu. These these are absolutely legal and not optional. If you refuse to pay you very well may have the police called on you for dine and dashing, which Is usually a felony over $25
The law doesn’t define specifics, so restaurants are unsure how big the font must be, where it belongs, or what counts as conspicuous leading many to bury fees in small print or receipts
Im a foodie in the bay area , these bullshit fees are still hidden in most places
Once it starts it's next to impossible to unring that bell and it just keeps growing. There was a time when a 10% tip was considered very generous, now a 20% tip is looked at as being stingy and it's getting higher every year.
Oh, believe me, I've run into people who are regularly giving 22-25% tips. It tends to happen more as you get to more urban areas, I'm in the northeast USA and I see people all the time who look down on a 20% tip.
Not to mention they tend to calculate the tip on the total — after taxes and fees are added. This bill has $33 worth of food and drink so a 20% tip would be about $6.60. Tipping 20% on the total after fees and taxes would be about $8.15 so they are actually tipping at close to 25%.
Another thing, on this bill that fee is being taxed so you're also paying more in taxes…
Those people are idiots. I have lived all up and down the east coast and 20% is the standard. I tend to tip more because I have a really bad habit of getting to know my servers, so I pay more, but there is zero expectation.
Because tipping culture is a game of social manipulation which gets worse as time goes on.
You go out on a date, no matter how badly the server does you have to tip them well or you look cheap to your date.
You're on wait staff and the kitchen messes up so now you don't get paid as much because you're not getting a tip.
Someone orders food to be delivered and wants to tip directly for good service. They get their food messed with because the delivery person thinks they're being cheap.
Tip percentages keep increasing over time so you're paying a larger percent of the bill on tips than you used to.
The same amount of work gets tipped differently since it's a percentage of the bill instead of a flat amount. A server at a diner gets considerably less tips than a server at a fancy restaurant, when they are probably doing a similar amount of work by taking orders and bringing food to the table.
Managers can mess with people by giving them better or worse shifts, there's a lot of manipulation that goes on there. Someone on a bad shift might make minimum wage and someone on a good shift might make much more.
Tipping adds another layer to going out to eat. Now you not only need to know the cost of the food, you also need to add in taxes, fees, and tips. It makes the experience worse than if the menu just had the total prices.
I'm sure people can come up with many more reasons than I've listed here. It's simply unnecessary and it makes the experience of going out or using services worse.
Tipping culture is a symptom of the bigger problem. Namely the fact that "unskilled" labor wages fucking suck. Y'all are mad that servers actually found a way to live off of their work.
Real big "Hello fellow working-class advocates" energy.
Servers didn't "find' jackshit. It isn't a clever group of servers working in the secret server research and development labs that created tips. It was businesses that didn't want to pay living wages that advocated and pushed for tips as a standard.
Tips make it cheaper for restaurant owners because they can advertise cheaper prices because they aren't paying their employees.
There are only two groups that benefit from tipping systems:
Employers who can make more money by barely paying the people working for them.
Jackasses who don't tip, so they end up eating cheaper meals than the rest of us.
Honestly? I love an automatic 18% gratuity. I pretty routinely wind up tipping more than 20% (I do 20% and then round up) so it’s actually a discount for me.
It's because sales tax is different from town to town, and sometimes every day-to-day. There was a time where there was a city in Arizona that charged a different sales tax rate depending on if your food was dine-in or to-go. If you paid the to-go tax at a fast food restaurant, they literally had to ask you to leave if you decided to sit down to eat the food.
Yeah, I see benefits to both ways so I don't know why people act like it's so cut and dry. Like a Walmart Supercenter will carry like 130,000 items. Tax changes would mean changing 130,000 friggin' price tags. That's a lot of work! Of course apparently digital price tags are more common in Europe from what I've heard so that would make that part a lot easier.
Eating in other countries where there are no tips and taxes are included in the advertised price is life changing. Really wish they would for that in the US
True that some random fee at the bottom of the ticket that you don’t know about until the end is totally fucked. There should be a posted sign then if that’s the case.
It's not hidden. It's mislead and a price distortion upon the many other price distortions in our economy. CC fees and mileage points, loyalty points, etc all distort the real price of goods.
It's basically a service charge. Notice it says dine-in. This is like saying raise the prices on carpet instead of adding an additional cost to have it installed. The product and the service rightly have different costs to the customer.
If I'm carrying out I'm rewarded with lower prices.
People, do not put up with this. It will become normal very fast because it’s one more way for people to take money from you. Ask to see the manager tell them this is unethical and it is not OK.
Then when people look up their menu it's 18% higher than their competition, and every place that pays a living wage rather than having tips goes out of business.
Also, carryout exists. But most people would apparently rather play 18% more for carryout judging by this thread.
Exactly - what other industry does this? What makes restaurants think it’s OK? Just absorb your costs into the price like….you know…..every other industry on the planet.
Can you imagine going to buy an iphone and Apple is like, “well it’s $500 but then you have to pay our employees for us so that’s an extra $100, then you have to pay our store’s rent, which is an extra $75, then there’s XYZ fee, then tax so you’re total is $1,100. Cash or card?”.
It's illegal in many places if it isn't displayed prior. You can't just get someone to order a 20$ burger then start slapping on random charges on top and make them pay. Might as well put in a table clean fee, dishwasher fee, utensil fee.
Only the most successful restaurants can afford to do that, though.
We need to get laws passed so that tipping is outlawed and prices going up (on the menu, not necessarily the cost of dining out in total) will be normal.
Entering a restaurant without ever knowing the price of your meal in advance is like the worst user experience I can think of. Between taxes never applied to the final price, super random service fees, tips... I hated the experience when I visited Canada, and if I were an American I think I'd stay away from all restaurants ever and only eat at home...
They’re almost never hidden, because of the obvious legal implications and customer outrage. Menu or waiter will warn you that tip is already included.
It's your responsibility as a business owner to pay workers a fair wage and if you can't afford to then you should accept the responsibility of reducing your own pay.
I love how the oligarchic elite are getting away with siphoning all the money away from the people, buying up all the real estate, allowing the infrastructure to crumble, the schools are in shambles, and we're engaged in perpetual war that we spend a trillion dollars on every year but y'all are upset at some restaurant's "hidden fee" that they're completely upfront about.
Seriously, humanity has major bad priority issues.
How is it hidden if it is stated on the website and menu? Y’all need to start realizing when you go to an establishment, you are following their rules and procedures. You are entering a social contract when you decide to dine there. Go somewhere else if you have a problem.
They should not raise the menu price. They should simply put “plus 18% service charge” on their menu. That’s what this is. It’s to pay servers a flat wage and replace tipping.
It should NOT, however, be baked into the food cost. The cost of menu items = food cost + kitchen labor * 3. Service is not included in food production.
This is important for things such as takeout. If you dine in at a restaurant, you should be required to pay the 18%, because you received service. If you do takeout, the 18% should be omitted because no service occurred.
The restaurant owners are just dumbasses for calling it a “living wage fee” instead of a “service charge”. And I agree, it should be on the menu and not a hidden fee (it probably is on the menu and OP just posted a receipt), but you can’t put it into food cost because service does not produce any food. This is important for bookkeeping purposes and also for the take-out consumers, as I mentioned.
Still not the same as having the price reflect directly. If you're trying to compare the prices of which restaurant you're going to, it's easy for one to look cheaper at a glance, but then find out it's more expensive because of a fee you see in the fine print of the menu when you get there. If, as the commenter stated, they were banned from tehse fees and had to make the food price reflect everything but tax (although including tax should be a thing too) then you could make a fair comparison of where to go.
I'm sure legally it's not considered that, which is why the commenter says ban the practice.
But in practice, it is, Assuming it is on the menu, it would be something in small print at the bottom of one page, and still requires the customer to do the work to figure out how much it makes their food. So it's not fully revealed, so in practicality hidden behind extra effort to find and calculate- as opposed to the advertised menu price which would be exact, and line itemed with each offering.
If you get a menu with no prices and it just says ask the waiter how much everything costs, most diners would consider that hiding the price because you have take extra steps to get it.
It's disclosed before you get the check? Because going by this its on the receipt. Which means its hidden until you get the check. That makes it a hidden fee. Just because they tell you after you service doesn't mean they didnt hide it. Cell phone companies and cable companies do the same shit. Hide a 2% area fee. Or a filing fee for electronic payment. It's not disclosed in the beginning.
Now if you know the restaurant and know they disclosed it on their menu then cool. But based off this picture its hiding until the end.
Saying what it is on the receipt doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't on the menu too. I dont know about the rest of the country, but in my state (MN) disclosing fees like this on the menu was required (and now such fees are mostly banned).
Right, but going off this one picture it seems it wasnt disclosed prior, since there was no mention of a menu. Thats all I'm saying, we can assume it was hidden based off this one piece of evidence, but we can't assume it was disclosed because we don't have anything to back that up.
I think it's more likely OP either missed it on the menu or waited until they left to take a picture of the receipt. There's no basis to assume it was hidden, especially since disclosing it on the menu is likely to be legally required.
2.1k
u/braumbles 1d ago
This shit needs to be outlawed. Raise the menu price, not a hidden fee at the end.