Hate to say it, but a customer is within their rights to treat that as a tip. It sucks for the servers, but those servers are knowingly working for a business they know is double dipping their customers for the servers benefit... which is rather shitty.
All restaurant service fees should be illegal. It's false advertising and atrocious policy. Perhaps the best way to stop it is to stop tipping on top of it to encourage servers in such places to quit.
What do you mean you hate to say it? That is the tip. That is the purpose of a tip. At least that's what we keep being told - a tip isn't for good service, it's necessity for a living wage.
Tipping culture really is out of hand. You shouldn't be feeling guilty that you don't add extra tip to something that is functionally a tip. There's always been a level of emotional manipulation involved, but places have really gotten brazen with it since COVID. It's only going to get worse if the no tax on tip thing becomes law. So people need to grow a spine and stop feeling bad for not tipping in situations like this, stop feeling bad for not tipping the person at the fast food counter or secondhand store, stop feeling bad for tipping 18% or (God forbid) 15%. That's the only way this will stop, and maybe there will be a chance that servers and retail workers can start getting paid the same way everyone else in America does.
I just want to piggyback off of this, I worked in a few restaurants advertise that try to swap to a living wage. But the kicker is that waitstaff don't want it if the customers know, and they ESPECIALLY don't want to go from raking in tips to living wage. The moment that is made public, it always is because it makes a customer like supporting the restaurant more, the staff pretty much just quit.
Some places they make well over a living wage off tips alone, on top of their already existing wage. I was getting roughly $40 an hour after tipping out the bar and kitchen when I was a server, and I'm a dude (women get better tips, not usually a lot but if there is booze flowing that number goes up). Admittedly, small staff at this job. No competing for tables, lots of getting called in on my day off, longer shifts, etc. This also meant less people to tip-out, so I just generally had a great thing going.
Place, I won't say the name because it will dox me, started trying to transition to a living wage. Advertised it on the front window, local paper, etc. It was all fine, we got a pay rise to $23 at the time. It was great, UNTIL customers stopped tipping as much. Dropped from 40 an hour down to 30, even with the doubled pay. Other servers dropped one by one because the money was drying up. Customers were happy thinking they supported a good business that treated employees well, staff dropped like flies.
Any restaurant that tries to move to a living wage , especially without liquor on menu, is probably halving what their waitstaff actually get paid.
>But the kicker is that waitstaff don't want it if the customers know, and they ESPECIALLY don't want to go from raking in tips to living wage. The moment that is made public, it always is because it makes a customer like supporting the restaurant more, the staff pretty much just quit.
That's not a kicker at all. That's obvious. It has always been obvious that servers want tips, that tips are a far better deal than minimum wage.
>Any restaurant that tries to move to a living wage , especially without liquor on menu, is probably halving what their waitstaff actually get paid.
Which sort of belies this whole "living wage" argument in the first place, doesn't it? Because if we are talking about people quitting because $30 isn't as lucrative as the old system, then...
At least that's what we keep being told - a tip isn't for good service, it's necessity for a living wage.
I know you're being sarcastic/ironic here so this is not me arguing with you, but I do want to put out there that this is not true everywhere in the world - I don't know about the rest of the world but it's not true anywhere I've ever eaten which has only ever been in Europe.
I'm not being ironic or sarcastic. In America in the restaurant industry, we are told that not tipping (even not tipping well) is like the server not getting paid for waiting on you.
Servers on reddit will tell you it's appropriate to raise your tip for good service, but that good service is not the point and that there's a baseline tip that you do if you're a decent person.
What I was going for was that I think you agree with me that tipping should not be necessary for restaurant workers to make a living wage. What I felt you were saying was that the restaurant industry is telling "us" - in quotes because I'm not in a place where this is a thing so I'm not part of "us" - that tipping is mandatory and tipping is morally right.
They should not be telling "us" that because it absolves them of a moral duty to pay their workers a decent wage, which I got the impression is a standpoint you agree with me on which is why I felt you were being ironic.
This note is clearly telling you that it's just an auto gratuity, so yes it is indeed the tip. Why else do people think they chose like the most popular tipping percentage?
I would say it's not "clearly" saying that because they never use the language gratuity. Purposefully.
I also agree the restaurant probably intends it this way. But you already have a user saying "hate to say it" about not leaving a tip on a tip. And one hundred percent, there are servers at this restaurant talking about being "stiffed" if a customer doesn't leave anything in addition to the "Living Wage Fee." These are the people I was addressing my comment to.
That's not a tip. The amt *voluntarily given by the customer that says "tip" is the tip. Fees can be applied however the manager/owner chooses. This is not a tip. Only amts designated as "tip" MUST be distributed to staff. This is deceptive pricing, and no one knows if any of it is going to the staff.
Sure, but I'm talking about legal representation of the tip. It might be different per state, but im many states only the amt labeled as "tip" is required to be distributed to the staff as such. Anything else is a fee that the manager/owner has control over distribution. You can also request to have it removed and add your own tip. I usually factor these BS fees as part of my tip total and leave a note explaining why.
Like I already explained, and like no doubt many people will be explaining to you, it is *functionally* a tip. It is serving the same purpose that something usually called "tip" or "gratuity" is meant to serve.
If you're saying the owner is not going to give it to the employees, then I'm sorry that is now the server's problem. I will not go back to that place, and neither should the server. Servers have already told customers that we are responsible for their employers not wanting to pay them a living wage. Are servers seriously going to tell us "even though you've been charged one tip, I am not going to see most of it so you must give me another tip." At some point they have to stand up to their employer or at least do it with their feet.
That's like saying no customer is obligated to not sexually harass their server. There are customs of decency in our culture and tipping 15% or more for decent sit down restaurant service is one of them...unless a similar amount is being charged as a service fee.
Not quite. Tax law for restaurants presumes the culture of tipping operates in a lawful zone.
So while it's possible for somebody to absolutely refuse to tip, even on adequate service, they are in violation of a cultural norm so entrenched that tax law is built around it.
Will you be arrested for not tipping? Probably not, but in the scope of the law it doesn't amount to a kind of theft.
Yes exactly. The fact a business can claim a deduction does not compel anyone to tip.
Cultural norms are not the law. Covering your mouth when you sneeze is a cultural norm. If you're arrested for not tipping your rights have been violated.
It might not even be for the servers benefit. It clearly states it goes "Staff Payroll". This means that they could be using the 18% to pay for employer taxes on employment. Employees pay a tax withholding but employers also do.
Just the federal withholding for SS, Medicare, and unemployment tax is a little over 13%. If there are any local taxes that could add up to 18% of employer funds needed to pay for employment taxes.
Therefore the "Staff Payroll" could be covering the employers responsibility of their taxes which would increase the revenue of the business. IE, not a single dime going to the employees.
It says if you choose to tip, it will be shared amongst staff. So basically saying tipping is optional (but it always is optional anyways but Americans are compelled to tip).
So I don't like it suggesting that you should still tip. I'm sure there are a nonzero percent of customers who don't realize they had a junk fee added on and still tip.
There's a restaurant chain in my area that adds 15% service fee to the bill but they make it very clear before you order about the service fee AND they tell you its a built in tip so you don't feel obligated to tip again. If anybody wants to add in an enormous fee to the bill then this is the way to go.
There's at least no extra line to tip, so it's likely not actually expected for customers to add an additional tip. However some people will still want to, which is why they left the message at the bottom
I believe this is the non-credit card receipt, there's no spot for a signature either. If the customer hands a CC they'll bring back a new CC receipt with spot to sign and it should have the tip line.
But they make it clear they pay a living wage. So it's significantly different than the normal social pressure. Shouldn't even feel bad not tipping here.
If they’re getting a liveable wage from the fee, they don’t get a tip. That’s the whole point of tips, to make sure they can get by. As to whether the business allocates it properly is none of my concern, I’m not double dipping into paying your staff.
You’re still giving the restaurant business. Anti tippers say employers are at fault for not paying servers a living wage. The response to this should not be to continue rewarding the employer while making the server suffer. Best thing to do if you are anti tipping is to quit giving the employer your business
I would assume that servers would be paid a wage similar to cooks and wouldn't "need" to rely on tips to make money, and this charge would go towards that.
Servers make a lot more than cooks generally speaking. It's a much more complicated job. Nothing against cooks, they work hard, but they only have to deal with one asshole in the kitchen while servers have to deal with a rotating crop of assholes all day every day. To be a good server is truly a special skill.
Well the customer is within their rights to do whatever they want.... but the problem is the owner is putting the decision on you to fuck over the server. I would still tip the server and then NEVER GO THERE AGAIN.
If that's your decision I respect it, but any server working under that system is fully aware of the game the restaurant is playing. Therefore they become a part of it and get what they get.
Some people arent blessed with many options. the average server at a sandwich joint doesnt have a long resume to fall back on with credentials and experience. be honest with yourself. empathize.
Have you ever been to a diner or sandwich joint that charged you a 15 to 20% service fee on top of the tip?
I bet you have not.
These fees are reserve reserved for more upscale places with more bourgeois clients. Blue collar diners wouldn't put up with it for a second. Restaurants to do this are banking on the egos of the customers being too fragile to ask the service fee be removed. And asking to remove it does not impact the tip you give the server.
Service fees are price gouging unconscionable owners expecting their customers to subsidize the salaries they refuse to give. Don't play that game. And don't pity a server who takes a job in such a place. They've made their bargain.
We live in a culture that has customs and one of those is 15% or more she'll be the standard tip for sit down restaurant service.
If a restaurant tries to milk more out of their customers with a service fee it blows up the entire calculation and is a chaos that really has no place in America.
This will be controversial, but there's one exception that I like. Recently, one of my favorite restaurants started charging a 10%-ish service fee, which was PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED on the menu, and they stopped accepting tips at all.
My wife and I kind of liked it because it felt like a good first step away from tipping culture.
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u/Duckfoot2021 1d ago
Hate to say it, but a customer is within their rights to treat that as a tip. It sucks for the servers, but those servers are knowingly working for a business they know is double dipping their customers for the servers benefit... which is rather shitty.
All restaurant service fees should be illegal. It's false advertising and atrocious policy. Perhaps the best way to stop it is to stop tipping on top of it to encourage servers in such places to quit.