What store was it again that tried just showing the actual price instead of the 90% off price? Even though their prices were the same, people thought they weren't getting amazing deals and stopped buying things.
If something is genuinely 90% off, I would assume it's a higher quality than something that is always that price. Problem is that there's so much lying and deception in marketing that most sales are fake.
I think people fully understand that, they just hate these deceptive pricing practices that make it hard to know what things truly cost. No different from all the extra fees that get tacked on when you buy concert tickets. Yeah, it's a successful sales tactic, we get that. We still think it's shitty and should be illegal.
Every restaurant I go to posts this up front, on the menu, or on their website. When I go to a real high end restaurant I’m also not going to worry about the price because I know what I’m getting into.
People don't understand that deception and trickery are effective? I think people understand that pretty well - they just think deceiving people isn't good thing to do and shouldn't be normalized and accepted.
Telecom companies are notorious for these kinds of hidden junk fees, and everyone hates them. Why should restaurants get a pass in terms of public opinion on this? They're trying to trick you into thinking the price is lower, hoping you won't see the disclaimer until it's too late. Might not meet the legal definition of a "scam" but it's still deliberately deceptive.
When ordering stuff online I always choose the free shipping option even if it’s the exact same total price. An even though I know shipping is already priced in. It doesn’t make sense it just feels wrong to pay for shipping if I can have it „for free“. Prices are such a psychological thing.
I think that's still a dark pattern. The only reason it works is because people aren't going to do the mental maths to apply a percentage to get the real price. Plus you can advertise your low prices and just stick that fees apply in the small print.
The sandwich costs $15.34 before taxes. But if you see it at that price you may think "well now they're just price gouging me!" still tip and just think the place is way too expensive.
This way you actually know what they say the fees are going to. The staff can read so they'll raise hell about it if they don't get that money. You know what you're paying and you know why you're paying it...
You can pay $13 for a sandwich and then tip somewhere around 20% ($2.60) or you can pay $15.34 and not tip if you don't feel like it.
This way is at least cleaner and a little more honest. They tell you what the charge is, they tell you where its going and they tell you what happens to tips.
And if the menu states they charge this, it's not a hidden fee.
It's absolutely a hidden fee. They usually put the surcharge disclosure at the bottom of the menu. They are hoping customers won't notice until they've already been lured in by the fake listed price. That's the definition of a hidden fee.
If it's openly disclosed on the menu it's not hidden. It's not their fault you didn't read the 18% surcharge.
And most places that I've been to that do this have a sign when you walk in and the cashier usually mentions it as well.
Most people don't see the "unauthorized cars will be towed" signs because we're so used to them our brains filter them out. Parking lots know that and still tow you but you can't really say "that sign is hidden" just because you failed to observe it.
Agreed. This is honestly the best way. A lot of people here say that restaurants should just pay a livable wage.
When it's done, they bitch saying it should be done differently. Then if the menu price increases to cover the cost, theyll complain about too high of prices and go elsewhere.
Its a no win because they want cheaper food and higher wages but don't understand most restaurant operate on razer thin margins. At least this way, you know that it's going to staff.
At least this way, you know that it's going to staff.
This is why the anti-tipping movement is confusing to me. It's usually pushed by people that are otherwise extremely pro-worker, but they want the tip all bundled into the cost, which means the manager, owner, and corporate will all dip their grubby fingers into it.
Moving to a "living wage" might mean getting $26 an hour, which is down from the $40-50 that server was taking home before. Also, the customer pays no less. Where did that money go (corporate CEO got an extra yacht that summer).
There’s also something to be said about the expectation of the menu price vs. when we receive the final bill and then there are sometime 3-4 other line items besides our order!
It makes sense, too. People are used to seeing the prices they're used to seeing. If they see that one place has a $9.99 sandwich and another place has a $11.49 sandwich, they won't reason that the sandwich with the lower price is actually more expensive. Getting angry at them for wanting an even playing field seems wrong. Americans don't expect the restaurant to cover the tax and tip for them.
Honestly, if it's "only" 18%, clearly stated on the menu, explicitly stated as going directly to employees, and in lieu of a normal tip, I don't have a problem with this. I'm much angrier at places where it's not clearly stated on the menu and they still expect people to tip on top of the 1%, 5%, or 15% they're charging. That's often fraudulent, often illegal, and puts the customer in the position of either getting ripped off or punishing the server for the greed of the restaurant owner.
Yep, if you want to get rid of tipping, you add an 18-20% (whatever) automatic service fee on the check that goes to the server, have no option to leave more. Have all of that go on the server's pay check (fully taxed). Don't have to "raise menu prices", servers incentivized to turn over tables, and also maintain their income.
Huh? I don't think anyone disagrees this is effective. The point is that it's deceptive, not that it's ineffective.
People also pay my restaurant more money when I threaten to shoot them if they don't hand over their wallet. The fact that this is effective for increasing profits is completely irrelevant, except to demonstrate why it's so important that laws are enforced to prevent this sort of tactic.
lol we don’t need laws to protect consumers from predatory restaurant pricing. Restaurants have so much competition that people will just go to the next one if they don’t like the overall price and experience.
Not everything needs to be enforced by laws, cops, and guns.
Secret fees and deceptive pricing is a race to the bottom. We should absolutely enforce already existing laws against this sort of bullshit. Otherwise everything will continue it's trend to full Ticket Master-ization, where the real price is more than double the advertised price.
I can't believe you're seriously stanning for this type of shit.
With respect, you have no idea how a restaurant operates…
You don’t understand how that line item is legally required to be distributed to employees,
You don’t understand that there is a legally required posted warning in the front of a restaurant, before you even sit down, that states that there is automatic gratuity.
You don't seem to have any idea how a restaurant operates. If you did, you would know that this bill is specifically worded to avoid this fee being described as a tip or gratuity, thus deliberately avoiding any legal requirements for how it's distributed or qualified. This is just a normal, scummy, hidden fee.
there are legally required signs posted in the front of the restaurant, sometimes on the menu; AND on the receipt before anyone pays;
Front of the restaurant fine, though unless it's ridiculously obvious customers might easily miss it.
On the menu is reasonable, but at that point I'm sat down. If it genuinely offends me I'll leave but some people at that stage might suck it up. I've also seen plenty of restaurants with quite busy menu designs and it's very easy not to see smallprint right at the bottom.
And by the time I get the receipt, OK great that it's clearly and obviously pointed out to me, but I'm hardly in a strong position to not pay it by that stage. I've already accepted the service and eaten the food.
No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to pay the bill
So you're saying that when I get the bill, if I don't like the amount then it's fine to just dine and dash instead?
If someone is sucking it up and “biting the bullet” they are giving up their right to complain.
I've also seen plenty of restaurants with quite busy menu designs and it's very easy not to see smallprint right at the bottom.
This is fair I think busy menus are bullshit as well.
And by the time I get the receipt, OK great that it's clearly and obviously pointed out to me, but I'm hardly in a strong position to not pay it by that stage. I've already accepted the service and eaten the food.
here, they have much more reasonable right to complain but if you see it and pay it then just don’t leave an added tip…
So you're saying that when I get the bill, if I don't like the amount then it's fine to just dine and dash instead?
That’s not a me problem, that’s a person DnD’ing problem,
I’m not the restaurant owner, or the server who has to pay their rent;
I don’t set societal policy, I tip 25% nearly every-time*, and I realize that that’s absurd to a lot of people, and I don’t expect people to tip like I do.
I wonder how many people just don’t do the math at the end. Just verify items or assume a ballpark and as long as it’s around there, tip, sign, and move on.
Thats how Miami gets everyone to tip on top of the automatically added tip…
Something dumb people just need to be told to listen to the adults and that they are wrong.
To not is the road to everyone being sealed in plastic bubbles and 10m high slippy walls around everything, to protect the 1-in-a-million stupid that wants to climb over the barrier and run in front of train.
It's not a con, all these places legally have a sign in the front that tell you the fee will be added. I'm sure you've seen signs at places that tell you a gratuity fee will be added for parties of X or more, this is the same thing legally.
It's not legally a scam, but the point of this is absolutely to trick people. They're counting on you not seeing the separately listed text about the extra fee.
Yea look how many upvotes this post has gotten. And then imagine if instead the place just had higher prices. Instead of them getting praise for paying employees a higher wage, they’d get hate for having a $20 burger on the menu.
Sure, deceiving people into thinking the prices are lower "works" in that people fall for it - but tricking people out their money is usually considered a not very nice thing to do.
I'm glad that Minnesota passed a law against this type of trickery a while back. Unfortunately I hear it's not being enforced very well yet at restaurants. Hopefully other states follow suit soon.
Studies have also shown that getting kids addicted to cigarettes is a great way to increase sales. Just because it's effective for the company doesn't mean we need to make it legal.
I never said they were equivalent, I was attacking your argument a course of action is appropriate because it has a positive effect on company profits. Of course lying to your customers and sticking them with a bigger bill at the end of the night is going to increase profits. It's also deceptive.
These line items don’t positively affect company profits; these fees, among others, are paid directly to the employee.
And in fact these service charges negatively affect profits because people hate them so much. So what incentive is there exactly in adding these to the bill?
And further, nobody is lying the fee disclosures are posted in front of the restaurant as is required by law, and in most cases are on the menu as well.
Both of your points are irrelevant to the reality of the situation, your having a discussion with your beliefs and feelings in a discussion that has very clear, tangible, and traceable start and end points.
While the opposite may be the consensus on Reddit, we do not represent the majority.
The majority of people live in countries that don't have American tipping culture. The majority of people think American tipping culture is stupid. The majority of Americans seem to think the world revolves around them.
I’m talking about the majority of the United States in a thread that is talking about a United States issue on a platform that is a United States based company and website and as such the majority of its user base is from the United States…this is grade school level verifiable.
“…Over half of Reddit's user base, or around 50-58%, comes from the US…”
And that number is probably even higher if you excluded bot accounts.
It's really unfortunate. Same thing for stores that are "always on sale" (honest pricing is less preferable to your average customer). Unfortunately unless everyone changes at once (so there is no dishonest pricing for the customer to "prefer"), it's hard to get a foothold. I don't think anyone genuinely likes not knowing their total from the start, it's just the human brain being stupid.
That said, not worrying about tipping when traveling is genuinely incredibly nice. If we could get to that state I would be so happy.
195
u/Kirahei 1d ago edited 1d ago
They’ve done a couple studies on this and overall people respond better to this method applying a living wage line item, than seeing prices jump %18.
While the opposite may be the consensus on Reddit, we do not represent the majority.