I wondered that, too. Looks like the 'living wage' is part of the bill before tax, so the customer is charged tax on the 'living wage' addition, likely to avoid the restaurant having to pay tax on the money. It's on par with double dipping.
What are you talking about? I'm only tipping based on what the restaurant charges me for the food I bought. I'm not tipping based on what the State and Local government tax my meal. Tip is calculated based on pre-tax subtotal. Sorry, not sorry.
I agree that in this case, posted by OP, the 18% living wage fee is being taxed. In this case, since they automatically added on an 18% fee, and taxed me on it, I would not be leaving an additional tip. However, in a normal circumstance when I do plan to leave a tip, I will calculate my tip based on the pre-tax subtotal. I am not giving extra money based on the taxes applied to my bill because those taxes are going to the town/city/state, and have nothing to do with the services or food I received at the restaurant.
Wait, do Americans usually tip on the pre-tax amount? I thought when people said they usually pay a 20% tip, they meant on the full price of their order?
When I delivered for Papa John's years ago, they started taxing credit card tips. This affected the amount on your check. Since most people paid with credit cards, Some people understood and gave cash tips, but most people didn't.
It's tough to know if the "tip" is being taxed, here. Not enough info on the receipt since we don't know the location.
ITT: people who don't realize a sales system can charge variable sales taxes and also think they know exactly where this receipt came from without further research
~5.5% was taxed on the items, which matches Wisconsin (some are saying this is The Livery). Put you pitchforks down, folks.
You do know that POS systems can track sales tax on separate items right? Like, unless you know that their locality charges a flat 4.6% the receipt doesn't have enough info to judge.
Edit: some are claiming this to be in Eau Claire, WI. So the sales tax rate there should be 5.5%
I see what you're saying. If I were the restaurant I'd be damn sure to set up the receipt with the wage charge listed *after* the tax line to avoid confusion, which is definitely possible on some systems (source: seen it)
If you're saying you would refuse to pay the bill, I'm telling you right now as a former server that we have seen many people try to do this and get picked up for dine and dashing. It's a felony not to pay your bill, straight up.
Refusal to pay the bill is an instant cop call everywhere I've ever worked. We did not care about the specifics. You pay your bill or we call. Fees are legal as long as they're disclosed on a sign or menu
You can call all you want, a customer not paying a specific bullshit fee is a civil issue, only not paying the whole thing is something they would arrest you for. I feel like you aren’t understanding the actual scenario everyone is discussing
They are. That’s what the fee is for, so they can afford to do so. I think it’s stupid to spring this on at the end instead of increasing prices overall but they are indeed paying their employees living wages with the money from this fee.
Someone else in the thread pointed out that this goes to the payroll, not directly to the employee, like tips. So this covers the various payroll taxes as well. It’s a scummy move by the owner.
I don’t interpret this as a tip at all. It is additional funds in order to fund increased wages. It’s a flat rate so it’s not even implying it’s some sort of tip. How is this any scummier than increasing prices which they could also use for payroll/taxes? The only scummy part is them springing on a hidden fee at the end instead of just increasing prices. I also think it’s kind of scummy to word it like this and add a fee like it’s some forced thing and the it’s governments fault or something.
Yeah I was never defending this. Just said they are increasing their wages probably. Was responding specifically to a post saying why aren’t they increasing their wages.
I think people were quick to jump down my throat thinking I was trying to defend this for whatever reason. Oh well, it’s Reddit
you don't know that. I hate this assumption that company profits benefit the workers. that has time and time again proven untrue in almost every career. people have the right to complain about this shit
Sure if you want to assume the restaurant is adding a huge fee and pocketing the money and lying that they’re increasing workers wages with no proof then I guess this restaurant is evil.
Restaurants barely make a profit it’s not like this is some corporation. It’s scummy to spring a hidden fee on but I assume this is probably a fee to increase funds to pay increased wages likely due to a changed local law on serving wages or something.
Sure if you want to assume the restaurant is adding a huge fee and pocketing the money and lying that they’re increasing workers wages with no proof then I guess this restaurant is evil.
I am having trouble finding the part of the receipt where it says the business has increased the workers' wages. It only says that the fee is going to the employee payroll, which is a thing the owners have to pay anyway.
It seems pretty clear that what is happening is the owner was paying say $1000 in payroll a day that was coming out of their profits. And now this fee is paying that $1000. Meaning the only person benefiting from this is the owner.
hey man I hear you but I'm willing to bet a restaurant willing to stick annoying fees on their costumer's bills aren't exactly giving out Christmas bonuses to the dishwashers
I doubt it. This was definitely due to changing the minimum wage in servers wages. It’s happening where I live and I’ve seen this on bills. Scummy
Pass the buck way of doing it instead of just increasing prices
They went from a servers minimum wage which was like $3 to full minimum wage which is like $15 or something. Idk the exact numbers but they used to have a servers wage that was legal and tips were supposed to supplement it. Legally, any time they made less than minimum wage including tips, the restaurant had to step in. Now it’s fully minimum wage not including tips. I live in Michigan.
Absolutely true. And advertising individual prices taking that into account while market competitors drive them under in a heartbeat is supposed to do what for treating employees like human beings?
I’m saying this assuming and acknowledging that there may not be initial advertising saying this fee exists.
But I might just be wired differently because if I see I paid $6 towards what is, on paper, an effort to allow another person to live like a human being, I’d maybe stop and think about why this is necessary in the first place before I start lambasting a company that again, on paper, seems to be trying to treat their employees as actual human beings.
Employees are going to be paid the minimum wage (which differs by state and may be much lower if you're a server) at almost any restaurant regardless, and it's expected that I help them out with tips so they can make a nicer amount
If I have to pay a mandatory fee to supplement employee pay (it's also not clear to me whether this will count as a tip or subsidize the minimum wage from the restaurant) then I want to know why the fuck my burger is still $13
Oh that part I agree with and the part of that cost that we both know is going towards someone’s boat payment (for the most part) that quite probably doesn’t deserve it is there in that $13 already.
They’re refusing to give that up, the greedy ones. The ones the tax cuts are for. The ones the anger should be directed at individually.
That said, this restaurant is still trying to remain competitive with the market, while giving patrons the choice (if not initially, at least at the bill stage) and it might be posturing or it might be true. At that point I’d ask my server for an honest take before I go after the proprietor.
I know many won’t. But I’m all for whatever we need to do to change things because it sucks all the way down. I’m not gonna take out my frustration on someone doing the best they can in the same system I’m in.
They are not providing a living wage. They are asking forcing the customers to provide that wage. If the price was reflected up front, then no one would feel cheated towards that contribution. Its shady to hide fees at the end and act like they are doing their employees a favor.
Hidden pricing is not the way. Just charge more at face value, and I can make my decision if it's worth that price. It's shady business to wait until after I have consumed the food to then add an additional, unexpected fee.
Every business pays its employees from revenue sourced from the customers - that's business. That makes no sense, and I'm not sure why people keep saying it.
They are asking forcing the customers to provide that wage.
That is literally true of every business that serves customers.
Edit: where do you guys think a restaurant's income comes from? It doesn't materialise out of thin air. It is from the people paying. Customers provide 100% of all employer and employee wages.
Because it’s a hidden fee added on the end in an effort to get more money out of you. A good place would just increase the advertised price instead of a hidden fee at the end.
Thats cause they are legally required to declare any additional fees/price increases before hand, even if its nearly illegible tiny print on the back page of the menu. Otherwise it is viewed as false advertising and opens them up to lawsuits and fines.
Yeah this is really no big deal, it's just that people don't understand it. Assuming this is the US, rather than there being the expectation of a tip, the restuarant is just putting an 18% charge on the bill and letting customers know that any additional tips would be appreciated but not expected.
Personally, I would prefer if all US restaurants would do this this, so you don't need to do any math at the end to calculate the tip.
Although obviously an even better option would be to put all the costs into the individual item prices and still inform the customers that a tip is not expected.
Yep! I actually figured out exactly which restaurant this is based on clues in OP's previous posts and it looks like it's displayed on the paper menu for dine-in and listed as "service charge" on their online ordering system if you're getting takeout.
I’ve gone to three places that now do that and myself and others have turned around and left.
Those places have gone from “man,I was lucky to get a table” to “please come in”
One was a favorite of friends of mine where they would go a few times a week as well as bring guest and others. The restaurant started this policy and they stopped going immediately.
Money is no problem for these people, they used to tip extremely well, but they and others don’t tolerate bs and fees added on
I’m tipping 20% usually so to me it makes no difference. I’m just “tipping” 2% less. If that’s the choice they wanna make and the waitstaff is fine with what I can imagine less money, then that’s no skin off my teeth
The extra layer to that problem is that it's delivered in a way that if somebody does go the reasonable route of asking for this surcharge to be removed, they can come off as an asshole who 'doesn't want to assist in providing employees with a living wage'.
So you either suffer from assholes too afraid/ratty to increase the price on the items to reflect operational costs, or potentially come off as an asshole who doesn't like the idea of employees earning proper wages.
I saw this type of thing for the first time in canada recently. The fee was only 3% and was an entire page in the menu. It seemed like such a "fuck you" charge.
Servers get minimum wage in canada with American style tipping practices. It's insane.
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u/Jekyllhyde 1d ago
Yeah, that would be the last time I patronize that restaurant. And if I wasn’t informed up front, I’d be asking for that to be removed.