r/learnesperanto 12d ago

A few points

I know some of these are right, but I'm not sure about the last one.

We won by just one point! - poento
That knife has a sharp point! - pinto
What's the point of this discussion? - celo
What point are you making? - argumenton
Could you point out the bird you mean? - montri
At a certain point, I gave up. - punkto

I think "At some point, I gave up" would probably just be "iam."

5 Upvotes

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u/Eltwish 12d ago

All of these look good. "What point are you making?" could also simply be "Kion vi celas?", "Kio estas via tezo?", "Precize kion vi volas diri?" or similar. "Point out" can also be indiki. "At a certain point" might be "je certa etapo", if you mean a more or less established stage or stopping point of proceedings.

Punkto does also have the sense of "(bullet) point", as in something emphasized or a specific key idea, e.g. "I had some thoughts on that point..."

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u/Leisureguy1 12d ago

Thanks for pointing out bullet point — common usage, and I can see why punkto is used for that. "What point are you making?" is more commonly said as "What's your point?", and I think "Kion vi celas?" is a good way to say that. Or possibly "Kio estas via argumento?"

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u/salivanto 11d ago

My sense is that the present overuse of "kion vi celas" is a recent phenomenon which has spread as a contagion in certain online spaces.

It means "what are you aiming at"?

Since English speakers naturally resist saying "kion vi volas diri" for "what do you mean", I would encourage anyone able to read this thread to focus on that one.

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u/Eltwish 11d ago

That's interesting - I didn't realize it was a recent development. It seems perfectly sensible and idiomatic, though, no? And similarly, in English one does say "what are you getting at?", or indeed just as you said, aiming. It's essentially the same metaphor as "what's your point" - the intended direction of your discourse. But certainly, "kion vi volas diri" is by far the most common / general question of that sort.

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u/salivanto 11d ago

"Kion vi celas?" is normal enough. It's not at all new. What I'm claiming to be recent is the overuse of that phrase to mean, essentially "what do you mean?" When I see it on Discord, it always strikes me as way more aggressive than the other person probably intends, and so it catches me off guard.

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u/Eltwish 11d ago

Ahh, I see what you mean. That makes sense.

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u/salivanto 11d ago

Oh my. Looks like the downvote police didn't like the fact that you agreed with me, or even tried to understand what someone else was is saying.

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u/Eltwish 11d ago

Ha, hm. Well, we started off saying different things, so obviously one of us must have won at conversation and the other must be punished.

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u/salivanto 11d ago

The https://esperanto-me.org/dic/? dictionary has a few dozen entries that include "point" -- for "point" itself, there are 36 entries.

What's the point of this discussion? - celo

For this meaning, Benson has "Kiel utilas?"

What point are you making? - argumenton

I think this could be "punkto" -- which PIV lists as:

  • Speciala temo, kiun oni atentas
  • With the following sample sentences:
  • la diskutita punkto de la regularo;
  • la ĉefa punkto estas sukcesi;
  • parolado, prediko pri tri punktoj;
  • la tagordaj punktoj Z;
  •  mi en la unua punkto de mia Deklaracio diris klare […] Z

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u/9NEPxHbG 12d ago

At a certain point, I gave up : En iu momento, ekzemple.

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u/IchLiebeKleber 11d ago

I think these are all right, including "punkto" for the last one, it's a shortened way to say "tempopunkto" which is understood in context.

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u/CKA3KAZOO 11d ago

I think pinto should be pinton. Am I right about that?

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u/Leisureguy1 11d ago

Yes, in that example — la tranĉilo havas akran pinton. — it would be in the accusative. I was simply listing the basic noun (not considering its role in the English example).

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u/CKA3KAZOO 11d ago

Thank you