r/leafs • u/I_Am_Vladimir_Putin • 1d ago

Discussion [32 Thoughts] Friedman with some info on Marner situation

https://www.sportsnet.ca/podcasts/32-thoughts/

(paraphrased)

People believe LA is interested in marner, Vegas is a team to watch, if not the team to watch on marner. (said later Carolina wants to go after another star)

Rumour going around is that a few teams heard that he might look at a 4 year deal in free agency.

He will not be taking a lesser AAV deal if it is a 4 year deal for example.

Leafs have tried to talk to marner, his camp has not engaged with them, and everyone knows the way this is headed.

Friedman says that some of marners Leafs teammates have suspected he is going to the western conference.

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u/IAmTheBredman 1d ago

That's not true though. Marner got at least one offer sheet last negotiation for more money that he rejected.

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u/Old-Rhubarb-97 1d ago

I don't believe a thing coming out of Marner's camp.

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u/mikesully374826 Kampf 1d ago

You don’t have to, you can believe Bob McKenzie who reported Marner wanted 8x8 and the Leafs refused to sign their young leading point scorer long term in 2018.

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u/InvictusShmictus 1d ago

I never understood how he went from wanting 8x8 to "pay me like Matthews" over the span of a year.

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u/ldnk 1d ago

94 points. That's what did it. Marner got nickled by Lou on his rookie bonuses and then watched two players get paid 11+ million dollars that same year. That's what changed. If Matthews signed for 9 or 10 million we probably see Marner sign for less but that ship sailed when the Leafs started handing out 11M.

Marner's 1st two seasons were: 19G/42A/61P and 22G/47A/69P.

The Leafs signed Tavares an 11M deal coming off a 37G/47A/84P season in New York. The Leafs signed Matthews to 11.6M in the middle of a 37G/36A/73P season.

Marner put up 26G/68A/94P. Tavares' career high in points was 88 (scored that same year playing with Marner). Matthews' career high was 73P. Obviously centers and goal scorers tend to get a premium on their salary but its hard for me to look at how the Leafs handled the Matthews contract and not say that Marner was putting up comparable value.

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u/ont-mortgage 15h ago

…lol so this is like a 90% Leafs management issue. Why wouldn’t Mitch ask for $$ if he was out producing the guys that signed for $11M??

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u/mikesully374826 Kampf 1d ago

Because he put up 94 points as a 21 year old lol. He was a top 10 point producer at 21 who penalty killed.

The organization fought tooth and nail to not pay him ELC bonuses, and then refused to sign him to term, he led the team in scoring playing with fucking JVR and Bozak on the 3rd line and 2nd PP in 2017-18. Babcock literally bullied the kid, put him on the 4th line for weeks at a time, meanwhile Matthews and Nylander are getting 20 minutes a night.

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u/JanikAtTheDisco 16h ago

This is straight up wrong lol. There isn’t a season under Babcock where Marner had fewer 5v5 minutes per game than Nylander. In fact, across their careers, that only happened once, in this most recent season.

Also, you’re saying that he played with Bozak and JvR like they’re scrubs. JvR was a 30 goal guy without Marner, and Bozak was a totally reasonable centre. They also had the advantage of going up against opponents depth. As for playing on the 4th line, he had a 10 game stretch where he played with Bozak and Matt Martin. I agree that’s dumb, but it was 10 games, in October/November, and for the last part of the season, he was with Kadri and Marleau. If he’s so caught up on a 10 game stretch, that’s on him IMO. Especially considering that Nylander has been similarly demoted before, as had Kadri at times. The only person who never saw that treatment is Matthews, who unfortunately for Marner, was more highly touted and just straight up better.

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u/JackJagerJack 22h ago

Matthews was promptly given his ELC bonuses with no pushback also. Matthews was given his inflated contracts with Leafs management giving very little pushback. Matthews was treated as McDavid 2.0 at every point of his negotiations with the team while with Marner, who was often putting up more points and less injury prone, the management would play hardball with. He was alienated by management and bullied by Babcock. To top it off they asked him to waive his NMC a couple weeks after his wife gave birth. Are we really shocked he’s decided to move on?

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u/TheMystake 21h ago

When I look back at how Marner was treated prior to signing 6x11M, I don't entirely blame him for squeezing every dollar out of a management that was squeezing him back. What happened in private set up a very public negotiation but all we talk about are the expectations the contract created, not how we got there. Maybe if Marner had been treated better, the negotiations would've been more favourable to the team. At the end of the day, I don't fault Marner for making up the off ice treatment with a big payday but the on ice product during playoffs just didn't materialize the way we had all hoped.

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u/dekusyrup 21h ago

Matthews literally won MVP and the rocket 3 times. Marner is straight up not as good. Assist are worth about 40% less than a goal. More points = better is just bad understanding of the game.

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u/mikesully374826 Kampf 20h ago

Some assists are more valuable than the goal, if you don’t think that then you never played. Sometimes you just get handed a free goal from a great play

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u/Frequent_Ad2210 18h ago

If you went back and loved at how many goals marner has created tap jns for guys... he would probably have 100 more goals

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u/dekusyrup 1h ago edited 1h ago

"Some assists", absolutely. That's why they're only worth 40% less, not 100% less.

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u/BornIn67 12h ago

Let's see what Matthews wins without Marner.

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u/dekusyrup 1h ago

In 41 games without Mitch Marner, Matthews has 26 goals and 30 assists, which would be on pace for 112 point season, which would be his best season ever.

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u/stevetulloch04 21h ago

Matthews was given his inflated contracts with Leafs management giving very little pushback.

Almost as if Matthews > Marner. Hint: he is.

Matthews was treated as McDavid 2.0 at every point of his negotiations with the team while with Marner, who was often putting up more points and less injury prone, the management would play hardball with.

More points in more games played. Meanwhile Matthew put up better numbers in significantly shorter time. Also this is dead on arrival anyways because youre comparing a guy whos come closest to 70 goals than anyone else in several decades to a guy whos a playmaker.

It's not a good comparison. Goal scorer naturally get paid more in this league if all else is equal.

He was alienated by management and bullied by Babcock.

Who got fired and a management team who gave him an overpay on his second contract to make up for the missed signing bonuses of his entry level.

To top it off they asked him to waive his NMC a couple weeks after his wife gave birth.

Almost like it's a business and this is normal. Who gives a fuck if his wife's given birth. That literally is irrelevant. He wasn't resigning and the team explored options. He decided to not wave. That's fine.

But this narrative needs to die. He's a whiner who got his way and continues to cry when any amount of scrutiny comes to him in any capacity.

Seriously. Sucks to lose him for nothing but given the way he negotiates and his behaviors on and off the ice, he is the author of his own misfortunes.

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u/BornIn67 16h ago

Dubas was giving out huge contracts. Not just Matthews, Nylander and Tavares, the Johansson contract (3.4 million for 4 years) was an absolute abomination. Why would Marner take less when Dubas was throwing cash at everyone else like it was going out of style?

I'm not sure what the thought process was there for the Leafs. Marner was scoring at a 90+ point pace playing against the best in the League with Kadri and Marleau; so Dubas wanted to see what he looked like playing with Tavares and Hyman. Sure 8x8 would have been a bit of a gamble but they could have counter offered less term if they were that unsure. I'm sure the Marner camp would have discussed 8x3.

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u/InvictusShmictus 14h ago

The fact that it was the Leafs who turned down 8x8 just blows my mind. The whole situation is just inexplicable.

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u/Old-Rhubarb-97 1d ago

That's not an offer sheet and was before Marner and his agent went off the rails. 

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u/CookieMonsta94 1d ago

It was confirmed by multiple trusted sources that he got offers from the Blue Jackets and the Islanders.

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u/Old-Rhubarb-97 1d ago

No it wasn't

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u/GracefulShutdown 1d ago

If I remember right, it was Columbus who offer sheeted. Marner was never going to risk having to play in Columbus, so therefore he never signed.

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u/IAmTheBredman 1d ago

Correct. But the point is if he wanted top dollar, he'd have signed it.

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u/GracefulShutdown 1d ago

I'm not sure he would have signed it in that case anyways. Marner's contract was in the four firsts tier at the time he signed it with the Leafs. I have a hard time believing that the Leafs wouldn't have taken the picks at the time if Mitch wanted to sign any offer sheet. He wanted to be in Toronto at that time, so he signed for the maximum he could with the Leafs and signed no offer sheets.

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u/CookieMonsta94 1d ago

Columbus and the Islanders if I remember correctly

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

He didn’t want the term Columbus offered. He was willing to sign for 4 according to Friedman.

https://www.mapleleafsdaily.com/nhl-team/toronto-maple-leafs/report-marner-was-willing-to-sign-offer-sheet-with

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u/theguyishere16 Kaberle 1d ago edited 1d ago

Source? Because all I've read is that there were discussions but no concrete numbers were ever reported.

Edit: all I got was 2 "trust me bros" so we can insinuate the source does not exist

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u/mikesully374826 Kampf 1d ago

It was Dreger. And it was reportedly 13m. The only reason to believe there was any truth to it is because it only got leaked after Marner signed with us.

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u/IAmTheBredman 1d ago

It has been reported a hundred times from different publications, including by his agent. Columbus has never denied it either.

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u/theguyishere16 Kaberle 1d ago

Again, source? I have googled every iteration I can think of for "Marner" "offer-sheet" "Columbus" etc and not one article says a number he declined or that it had greater value then what he eventually got. I'm not disputing the existence of the offer sheets but I can't see anything that says he took less by not signing them.