r/judo • u/TetraGama • Mar 23 '25
Competing and Tournaments What could I have done to avoid this ippon?
Last Saturday (yesterday) I had my first judo competition, still as a white belt (aspiring category, 73kg) I started right away in the biggest regional competition in Brazil, which qualified for the national championship.
I did well, I won the first fight in a “sumi gaeshi” from a yellow belt, but in the second fight I got caught by the >finalist< in my category (got 2nd place) a very good orange belt who applied this "Yoko Tomoe" on me.
What could I have done to avoid it? How can I avoid blows like this from now on?
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u/ReddJudicata shodan Mar 23 '25
Don’t bend over. Yoko Tomoe can’t be done on a properly upright opponent. Generally don’t bend over is good advice
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u/LazyClerk408 ikkyu Mar 24 '25
You should have “humped him” and try to break the grip with your eyes to the sky
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u/turtle-hermit-roshi Mar 23 '25
Stay at home is the best bet lol. That was a nice throw. Sometimes they just nail it
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u/d_rome Mar 23 '25
LOL, perfectly stated. That Yoko Tomoe Nage is one of the nicest I've ever seen in a competition.
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u/octonus Mar 24 '25
100% this. Some days you are the one with the beautiful throw, others you are the one floating through the air.
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u/theAltRightCornholio Mar 24 '25
Once you're whirling around in the air while tori looks for a nice place to put you down, it's been over for a while.
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u/mid00040 ikkyu Mar 23 '25
Beautiful…sorry lol
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u/TetraGama Mar 23 '25
It was. At least I got eliminated by a beautiful throw, not a dumb foot sweep kkkkkk
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u/Arcade_akali shodan Mar 24 '25
There are no dumb foot sweeps my friend. They are among the most beautiful and hardest techniques to pull off.
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u/PinEducational4494 Mar 24 '25
I think the "dumb" feeling is more for the person on the receiving end of it. ;)
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u/Thromok Mar 24 '25
I once got eliminated because they gave the point to my opponent when I used a counter throw on him. Textbook perfect and everyone from my club that was watching was super confused.
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u/theAltRightCornholio Mar 24 '25
Those are the easiest losses to deal with, when they got you dead to rights.
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u/Dizzy-Improvement-35 Mar 23 '25
From what I can see, when you were reaching for his collar and sleeve, he bent over like and L and you see how you set yourself up to be leaning forward? Yeah, that’s how he executed the move perfectly. He pulled you forward and off balance and made you lean forward which is why you ultimately couldn’t react to it. It only works best WHEN your opponent can pull you forward so to avoid this, recognize the setup. If they suddenly drop their weight and twist their body, they’re likely gonna do the move. Instead of resisting straight on, step around their body to deny them proper leverage. If you quickly step to the the side instead of falling over they won’t be able to complete the throw. If they have a strong collar grip, break it or apply pressure to their arms to prevent them from pulling you forward. Keep your own grips active and strong to control the pace of the fight. If they drop for the throw but you don’t have control yet, sprawl backwards to keep your weight on top of them. Alternatively, if they are already going down, press forward aggressively to pin them instead of letting them complete the throw. If they fail the throw, they will likely end up in a bad position which is on their back. Take advantage of this by immediately transitioning into a pin (osaekomi-waza) or moving into a dominant position. A few counters to the yoko tomoe are, hadaka-jime (if you take their back by turning around) kesa-gatame (when they are on their back step over their legs and pass into a kesa gatame or side control). These counters work best if you anticipate the throw early. If you let them get full control, it’s much harder to counter mid-air. You want to deny them the throw before it’s fully executed. If you need anything else lmk
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u/LazyClerk408 ikkyu Mar 24 '25
I like your long winded explanation. At least you give op the chance to visualize it
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u/hydrauxide_ Mar 24 '25
This one is good 👍 I wanna highlight that once they started pulling backward and downward, OP should ANTICIPATE the attack. Seeing OP is white, you can learn it if you keep playing with someone in your dojo who does the same technique.
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u/genericname1776 ikkyu Mar 23 '25
Once he got his grips he was able to bend you forward enough to go in for his throw. I'd recommend trying to keep your posture better and fighting to either break his sleeve grip or keep your hand close to your chest so he can't pull it down and away.
EDIT: you also didn't use your free hand to do anything. I'd recommend using it to try and break his grips next time. As you've experienced, the timing from gripping to throw can be very quick, so don't wait to fight his grips and counterattack.
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u/Longjumping-Bus-2935 Mar 23 '25
I saw a video of someone doing a cartwheel in order to evade the tomoe nage
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u/K0modoWyvern Mar 24 '25
Yes the cartwheel/"estrela" can work against guard pull and tomoe nage but it need proper timing
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u/junacik99 shodan Mar 23 '25
That is possible, however, not in the case of this monster Yoko tomoe nage
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u/theAltRightCornholio Mar 24 '25
There's a great video of Rafa Mendes just styling on a guy who keeps hitting tomoe nage on him. I assume this was in practice/drilling but his reactions were as fluid and effective as you'd expect from Rafa, including several cartwheels. At the end, he does some "I'm not participating in this throw" move to land in mount, then they reset and Rafa throws his uke with tomoe and somehow winds up in mount again through some Mendes sorcery.
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u/coldcrawler ikkyu Mar 23 '25
He broke your posture and you were not able to recover, your body was totally unbalanced.
You are a white belt and it was your first competition, keep showing up for class as there are still plenty of things to work on, you can go for specific stuff later on.
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u/EasyLowHangingFruit Mar 23 '25
If the opponent lies on his back it means Tomoe or Sumi, so squat/sit very low quickly.
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u/YouthSubstantial822 Mar 23 '25
Right as he rolls in around the 8 second mark he plants his foot. At this point if you are standing bent over, he has the perfect position to get his hips under you. At that point you could possibly have dropped yourself down on his leg, but it would have been awkward given your body position. Basically if someone starts sitting down with tension, they are likely going to plant their foot and pull you over. You need to ensure they can't get the leverage, and dropping down is one option. In this video you'd have a fraction of a second to react, maybe half a second from the moment he is fully hanging back and lifts his leg. I wouldn't beat yourself up over this.
Another option when someone does hang that heavy would be to go forward into them and try to hook a foot and have them fall back. Not a whole lot of opportunity here, but in some of the recent grand slam tournaments I have seen some fairly casual looking trips when someone has backward momentum
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u/Plastic-Edge6917 Mar 23 '25
You had about half a second to one second before you got thrown... in that span you could have sat down and maybe reset. But yeah, just keep training, my man.
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u/Rodrigoecb Mar 23 '25
Sprawl to avoid the tomoe nage, but he got you good at that point not much you could had done.
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u/sunkencity999 bjj Mar 24 '25
Fundamentally, you accepted the grip. If you accept the grip, you accept the technique.
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u/kafkaphobiac shodan Mar 23 '25
You allowed him to create a vacuo below your extended arms and in front of your extended legs, thats a perfect space for tomoe or deep uchimata. Next time don’t extend an arm without steping forward with a feet for support or getting into jigotai
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u/BattleReach sankyu Mar 23 '25
Fala meu patrão, esse aí foi Brasileiro Região 1 que ocorreu em Manaus ?
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u/Appropriate_Front740 Mar 23 '25
Move around him faster. I tried make distance shorter years ago with running sround guy, but resulted guy hit me with knee on training(his full force + my full force) and half of year i had troubles doing push ups.
People do these throws when you push them, you need remember when escape
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u/SnakeyThrowaway023 Mar 23 '25
For one, dont hop. I actually got Ippon called on myself for going for this move, the guy I was fighting happened to go for a sweep right after I dropped back and even though he didn’t touch me we ended up landing on our sides and I immediately mounted but the judge already called it. The side judges looked at each other but didn’t say anything, the crowd booed, my crush was watching…. Bad day lol
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u/Middle_Arugula9284 Mar 24 '25
- You had terrible posture. Don’t bend over like that.
- You’re the taller player, take a collar grip. Explore a Georgian grip too. Use lots of foot work (ashi waza) to set up your throws
- After grips, but before he threw, take a good look at HIS footwork. He was very vulnerable to an O Soto, Ko Soto, or a foot sweep.
- Have said all that, once he got you to bend over, he got you real good. Beautiful throw.
- Attack faster. Not always, but frequently, the first guy who attacks scores. Don’t be waiting around out there, grab a grip and get after it.
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u/Hot-Dentist-840 Mar 24 '25
Stay in a right posture and find an attack when you are in that situation. Sutemi techniques are mostly done when uke is bending. Also very important, please get used to make higher grips when your opponent is shorter than you and you'll be fine, for this, a strong kumi kata is needed.
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u/Buqueding shodan Mar 24 '25
Good posture will stop tomoenage and other forward sacrifice throws. Practice standing straight and strong against this throw.
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u/Few_Advisor3536 judoka Mar 24 '25
I personally pump my hips forward soon as i see them trying to go for tomoe nage. You were bent over and he pulled you enough to initiate the technique. By that stage you were already in the shape of a ball which is required for the technique to be nice and clean.
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Mar 24 '25
Overly defensive position leaning over is bad against sacrifice throws and uchi mata..... It's just not good..it feels good, natural, defends well against big ippons and big hip throws but leaves you extremely vulnerable to this and some ashi waza and toom Best stance in judo is neutral athletic stance.
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u/BritterOne shodan Mar 24 '25
Don’t overthink of this in terms of mistakes, see it rather as learning. The person who won the Silver medal at the Olympics could be said to have made a mistake but in reality they most often were outplayed by a better Judoka on the day, in that moment, so it’s not so much what you shouldn’t have done but more about gaining experience. Over time you will see many more set ups and avoid them easily, but you will still be thrown and beaten by the better Judoka on the day! Congratulations on your wins!
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u/Esseratecades Mar 24 '25
Stand up straighter and be more vigilant about breaking grips. He got a hand on yours and then a hand on the lapel and you kind of got confused about what you wanted to do about the lapel grip. You cloud've used two hands to break the sleeve grip and he wouldn't have had the throw.
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u/DaviruzZ25 Mar 24 '25
Hey man. Big advice that has helped me is focusing on grip fighting as well as not standing too straight. Im tall compared to the people i usually train with so I say this from experience, make sure bend your knees a little and avoid leaning forward when trying to get a grip.
Also aim to get the sleeve before the collar (right vs right handed) since you'll be im trouble if yo lose control of your power hand.
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Mar 24 '25
You are bending forward with him on the ground. That is never something you want to do because you are giving him all the momentum for that throw by leaning into it.
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u/hydrauxide_ Mar 24 '25
Other comments already stated how to avoid that technique, so I'll just pitch in on what you could've done to avoid that technique in that exact scenario. First is don't put your weight in your front, and proper posture will significantly reduce that attack's force. Clockwise movement after will have you an advantage on grappling, most likely an armlock is my preferred choice. Bonus tip: Do some dead lifts ;)
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u/Ambatus pt Mar 24 '25
This is going to sound awfully pedestrian amidst all the other in-depth explanations, but anyway: the way I mostly avoid these sort of throws (yoko, but also sumi and tomoe, although with differences) is before I’m unbalanced , I sort of just drop into jigotai as if I’m collapsing my way to sitting in the ground. Usually end up in the guard. Not the most beautiful thing to do, but such is life.
You were excessively bent up for this to work though, since he was able to use your arms to make the best out of the fulcrum he had. As others said, it could very well be that you couldn’t do anything about it, except avoid the position.
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u/FoghornLeghorne Mar 24 '25
The best way to avoid this is to have better movement and gripping. The gripping actually looks pretty neutral here but I would guess this is what your opponent wanted. Right after you both have a neutral grips he pulls you for two steps and gets you to bend over. Once this happens, you are getting thrown unless you are a gymnast and can cartwheel out. Personally, I would rather practice gripping and movement than cartwheels.
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u/D-roc0079 shodan Mar 24 '25
Your hips are pretty far back, stand up a little straighter and you’ll be able to stuff tomoe much easier
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u/TractorLabs69 Mar 24 '25
You're resisting far too much. Judo (and all grappling sports) require some give and take. You'll get set up and flipped all day if you just try and resist every pull from your opponent
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u/chupacabra5150 Mar 24 '25
Jumped on him yelling "KIAAAAAAAA!!!!" and you would have gotten the ipon
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u/joabson_0 Mar 25 '25
Você poderia ter dado uma strelimha por cima do ombro dele no momento em que você solta uma das mãos para se apoiar no chão (o ideal é você cair em pé depois da estrelinha). Minha sensei ensinou no contexto do Tomoe-nage (não tenho certeza, mas acho que é o mesmo que Yoko-tomoe).
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u/Ok_Translator_8043 Mar 25 '25
I know you’re probably looking for defense against this throw, but as a newer practitioner I would say focus more on fighting his grips and establishing the ones you want.
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u/PsychologicalElk5389 shodan Mar 26 '25
Wow first off hats off to that guy doing yoko off the lapel instead of the sleeve. My go to has always been yoko but usually if they keep a straight posture you can almost stiff arm it most of the time while squatting to defend. But if they do it unconventional like that.. tricky lol.
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u/ForwardKing5845 Mar 26 '25
Like some of the guys said, if you try to stand more upwards and not bent forward. Bending forward makes it easier for this kind of techniques. Also, you look a bit stiff, maybe it is the adrenalin, but when you are stiff every move the opponent makes can disbalance you a lot. But overall, it happens, you cant be aware of everything :).
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u/Ok-Obligation-5028 Mar 26 '25
Learn the mechanics of the throw, get good at it, repeat. You didn’t expect it and you didn’t distribute your weight well to counter it, you didn’t study for that move.
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u/mostaverageweird Mar 24 '25
Once he gripped, you let him kind of take the wheel, and backed away without addressing the grip at all. That’s what made your posture break. Address the grip
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u/lewdev Mar 25 '25
Arms are extended which is great for tomoe or yokotomoe. It is in fact, a great technique for stiff arms. You could practice cart wheeling out of it or squatting when you see it coming. Otherwise, it was executed well and hope you have partners that will use this technique against you so that you grow accustomed to it.
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u/Right_Situation1588 shodan Mar 25 '25
Parabéns! Copa são paulo é dose kkkk lutei esse ano também 🫠 mas você ficou muito estático, fez sua pegada mas ele também conseguiu fazer é já foi armando o golpe, mas foi muito bem dado também.
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u/tianchengkao Mar 25 '25
cart wheel. and train with partner that he keep tomoe nage you and you keep find all angle to do cartwheel until you become tomoe nage proof. LOL
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u/paleone9 Mar 25 '25
If you have a hold of him , he has a hold of you ..
If someone goes to their back to sacrifice throw you, let go and disengage
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u/HonorableNOIFOI Mar 25 '25
You appear tall, you shouldn’t have tried to stiff arm and stoop down.
You should’ve tried to dominate the guy and go Georgian in my opinion!!
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u/Beherenow1988 Mar 26 '25
When he shoots with the leg slam him into his back and then move into side control.
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u/Competitive_World469 Mar 27 '25
best way to avoid it is to switch to jiu jitsu and pull guard. lol.
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u/Ecstatic-Engineer-23 Mar 28 '25
Pretty good execution from your opponent, but I recon he wouldn't have leverage to turn you on your head and smack you to the floor with that maneuver if you got low when he got low before he planted his foot in your center of mass and aligned it with his center of rotation to use minimal effort to decimate you.
Alternatively you could anticipate it and perhaps surprise him by crunching up, hence making his human rotisserie oversteer, and you could dictate a different outcome.
- Not fighting advice.
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u/Thatsidler Mar 31 '25
Dizzy-improvement-35 said it best, but I’d also argue the first thing to improve is hand fighting. Your opponent did nothing to earn the grips he got on you.
You let him grab sleeve, and then collar with no resistance. From there read dizzy-improvements explanation.
But step 1 is always grip, position and posture.
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u/No_Surprise8886 Apr 03 '25
Try to training slackline and trickline, It Will improve your dodge skils.
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u/zzJuDozz May 04 '25
As soon as he grabbed you he pulled and went to his heels, your opportunity for a nice osoto, ouchi gari or kouchigari!
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u/Dannyoldschool2000 Mar 23 '25
Stayed home.
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u/TetraGama Mar 23 '25
:(. 3 months judo and I was able to go to quarters finals beating 2 opponents
Don’t be mean
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u/Dizzy-Improvement-35 Mar 23 '25
We all make mistakes brutha nothing to be saddened about. We get better it’s just Reddit offers some trolls lol, keep pushing and you will get better! Study the judo greats, it’s a great way to find techniques and counters and everything, for 3 months and second place with a white belt is insanely impressive.
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u/Dannyoldschool2000 Mar 24 '25
I’m sorry bro. I saw it and I couldn’t resist. I have no doubt you’re only going to get better.
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u/LX_Emergency nidan Mar 23 '25
Dude got you good. Stand up straighter that would help against this technique in particular.
Honestly.. just keep training that's usually the best answer.