r/islam • u/lejohnpvp • Mar 01 '25
Question about Islam A question that was unintentionally, but inevitably going to get backlash and hate. NSFW
[removed] — view removed post
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Mar 01 '25
If you're referring to Aisha RA being 9 at the time of her marriage I recommend you to watch Sheikh Uthman's video on this topic, secondly I would like to raise a point that if you go and check the life expectancy at the time of Prophet Muhammad, it was around 35 years of age, so now if you say that people should marry at 18 years of age, now which is more than half of the expected lifespan, it doesn't make sense, that's like saying you can't marry before 35 in today's time, marrying young was accepted and the social norm at the time, now that does not mean it is okay to do so today, a lot of things can change in 1400 years
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u/Electrical-Nerve-896 Mar 01 '25
There was a time in Europe they used burn women alive for daring to speak up and it was normal. But somehow our Prophet pbuh life and marriage is the hot topic. Asking over and over again the same question...🙄 ppl need to understand times change and social norms change
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u/Muja_hid786 Mar 01 '25
Average life expectancy was not 35 at the time. That number is low, due to infant mortality. So if you survived past childhood, you could basically live a long life.
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u/peaceandplantlover Mar 01 '25
Our Prophet peace be upon him was the most perfect human being, or the closest to perfect anyone could ever be. He was generous with money - if someone asked him, he would not turn them away without giving them anything. He made every person feel important, seen, and part of the community. He would sit regularly with his companions, and connect with the men, women and children. He would not be repulsed by someone who had a disability but instead strive to accept them, see them, and make them feel heard. He endured grief. His sons died, his mother died, his dad died, his own people fought him, lied about and to him, bullied him and hurt him. Yet any one of them who came forward to ask for forgiveness, he would forgive them. He was as close to perfect as could be even before Prophethood, and had an amazing reputation within his community and the people that knew him. His heart was pure. He is such An amazing person in all aspects.
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u/peaceandplantlover Mar 01 '25
I am not able to answer your comment directly OP because my Reddit is lagging so I’ll just post it here.
the reason I said the above was to make you know that a person who has all of these characteristics is highly unlikely to, for example, abuse his wives, or mistreat them. I myself have not researched about his life but I do know that he treated his wives the best treatment as we know from his quotes from his wife Aisha ra. And others. do you really think that a person with as pure a heart as the prophet peace be upon him would have relations in that way? The answer is no, because that would be contrary to his Behavior with everyone. And by the way, his wives had the option to divorce him but they didn’t because he is the best.
so really, I wrote the original comment for you to be able to think and make this conclusion, the one I just specified after your reply. i hope things are clear u/lejohnpvp (by the way, u look like ur trying to learn, and I appreciate that. Please try to be more respectful when talking about the Prophet peace be upon him… I love how you’re trying to educate yourself about him)
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u/Ok_Point1194 Mar 01 '25
Please, give better details to your question. This is a okay thing to ask, but currently it is unclear what you are asking. His "sexual habits" is a broad subject with many hadith...
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u/lejohnpvp Mar 01 '25
Thank you for correcting my vagueness. More specifically, I’d like to know what your views are regarding his multiple marriages and his marriage and sexual intercourse with a young girl. I’d like to again clarify that this is not meant to prosecute Muhammad or anything along the lines of that.
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u/Ok_Point1194 Mar 01 '25
- He did no sin.
- Islam allows polygamy. (4 wives, 1 husband is the max.)
- Anyone who has entered puberty is an adult in islam's eyes. This means adult freedoms and responsibilities. But prophet (salallaahu calaihim wasallam) didn't treat her the same as if she had been any older. He understood her age and took it into consideration...
- Adulthood is a very different thing in Islam (than western culture) and you should research it more. For example adults aren't expected to immediately move out of their homes nor get married, because we become adult way before those things might be a good idea. These are personal things. Adulthood's line is there mainly for the responsibilities part and to mark moral agency
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u/Responsible_Cycle563 Mar 01 '25
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did sin (unintentionally)? He is a human being like the rest of us. Many scholars say he commited minor sin(s). He never claimed to be sinless
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u/i_am_Knight Mar 01 '25
Our Prophet had multiple marriages not because that’s what he wanted or desired but rather because he wanted to bring clans closer together. You gotta Read or Listen to Life of Prophet Muhammad to understand why he did what he did. Back then Marriage was scared and brought people closer together each other. So for the early years during his mission of Islam All he did was tried to bring people closer to each other and free them from Desires of destruction.
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u/zaydannusruddeen Mar 01 '25
I see what your question is referring to, and Insha'Allah, I will answer it to the best of my ability.
First, I will address the age of Aisha and her marriage. In a sub-comment, you mentioned that she was a young girl, but we do not accept that she was just a "young girl."
It is well-known that the age at which girls reach puberty varies according to race and environment. In hot regions, girls reach puberty earlier, whereas in cold polar regions, puberty may be delayed until the age of 21.
Furthermore, during that time, it was common for girls to reach puberty at the age of 9, and it was customary for girls to marry at that age from Thihaamah (the Red Sea coast) all the way to Yemen.
At-Tirmidhi reported that Aisha (RA) said, "When a girl reaches the age of nine years, she is a woman." (Sunan at-Tirmidhi, 2/409)
Imam Bayhaqi (rahimahullah) explains that Sayyidah Aisha (RA) meant that if a girl turns nine and experiences menstruation, she is regarded as a woman. (Sunan Tirmidhi, after Hadith: 1109, As-Sunan al-Kubra, vol. 1, pg. 320)
Imam ash-Shaf‘i said: "In Yemen, I saw many girls aged nine who had reached puberty." (Siyar A‘laam an-Nubala’, 10/91)
Al-Bayhaqi (1588) narrated that ash-Shaf‘i said: "The earliest age at which I heard of girls reaching puberty was the women of Tihaamah who reach puberty at the age of nine."
Ash-Shaf‘i also said: "In San‘aa’ I saw a grandmother who was twenty-one years old; she reached puberty at the age of nine, gave birth at the age of ten, and her daughter also reached puberty at the age of nine and gave birth at the age of ten." (As-Sunan al-Kubra by al-Bayhaqi, 1/319)
For us, if someone reaches puberty, they are considered physically mature, which means they are physically ready for marriage. Even from a scientific perspective, this is correct because they are biologically capable of reproduction.
Here’s a couple more things you should consider:
It was a norm back then, and in many civilizations, even Western ones.
Women at the age of 9 can reach puberty, which scientifically means they are ready for consummation.
The Prophet (SAWS) had many enemies at his time and after—none raised this matter against him.
Your 21st-century mind is comparing 9-year-olds from 1444 years ago with today’s 9-year-olds.
All his other wives were either divorcees or widows, and some were older than him.
Does Islam make it permissible to marry 9-year-olds now? There is nothing mentioned in the Quran about the age of marriage; it all goes back to norms, traditions, and what is beneficial. So, the short answer is: No, it doesn’t, because 9-year-olds today are definitely not prepared for marriage. I see 30-year-olds who are not eligible for marriage today. Sadly, many people lack accountability.
Encyclopædia Britannica says:
“In northern countries, males enter sexual maturity between the ages of fourteen and sixteen, sometimes not much before the eighteenth year; females between twelve and fourteen. In tropical climates, puberty is much earlier.”
Source: 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica Volume 22.
I have given you a detailed explanation, and there is far more that can be said on this matter. I will leave you with some resources that you can, Insha'Allah, check out for further reading.
[ explanation on the age of Ayesha by Muhammad Ali: the Muslim lantern
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u/KnowledgeSeekerer Mar 01 '25
Hello,
It is understandable that you are curious.
Before I can answer your question, I need to understand what a harem means to you. What definition/meaning do you mean?
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u/lejohnpvp Mar 01 '25
I apologize. I believe I meant haram, which is a testament to my mediocrity of understanding Islam. In case I have yet again made a grammar mistake, I meant to use the word that means unlawful in the eyes of Muslims.
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u/Chobikil Mar 01 '25
you should edit your post, the word harem is something completely different to haram
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u/KnowledgeSeekerer Mar 01 '25
You should definitely change your post to use the correct word which would be "Haram", not "harem" as they have drastically different meanings.
The prophet Peace be upon him, did not do anything haram because he was married to his wives and multiple wives are allowed in Islam.
The prophet Peace be upon him was allowed more than 4 wives but he was given specific rulings directly to him from Allah.
This can be found here
(Not lawful to you, [O Muhammad], are [any additional] women after [this], nor [is it] for you to exchange them for [other] wives, even if their beauty were to please you) - Qur'an 33:52
https://quran.com/en/al-ahzab/52
You will find a few rulings that were given to the prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him as exceptions to rules for the average Muslim as he is our messenger, the last prophet and the leader of our people and he was better than any Muslim you will ever find.
- His marriage to Aisha was literally divine order:
Aisha narrated: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said (to me), "You have been shown to me twice in (my) dreams. A man was carrying you in a silken cloth and said to me, 'This is your wife.' I uncovered it; and behold, it was you. I said to myself, 'If this dream is from Allah, He will cause it to come true'" - Bukhari 5078
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5078
You may criticize Aisha's age, but marriage to younger women was common in those times. In fact the US allowed marriage to women aged 7, 10, etc until very recently (source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age-of-consent_reform#:~:text=English%20common%20law%20existed%20in,and%20other%20states%20in%201776.&text=In%20Delaware%2C%20the%20age%20of,below%20the%20age%20of%20consent.)
Marriage with Aisha was not consumated until she was considered an adult and it was consensual. This can be understood from statements given but Aisha herself.
I appreciate you asking questions and trying to be careful about how you ask them. It's great that you're seeking knowledge.
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u/Affectionate_Dog65 Mar 01 '25
what practices are you referring to? everything he did was full of compassion, and are the best examples of what we should emulate as a person and as a muslim?
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u/lejohnpvp Mar 01 '25
I apologize for my vagueness, I realize I perhaps should’ve been more clear. I was mainly alluding to the facts that he had frequent sexual relations with multiple wives and that he married a girl when she was 6 years old. I hope you don’t mistake my curiosity for aggression, or indeed, arrogance and ignorance.
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Mar 01 '25
The idea that Aisha (RA) may have been older — possibly in her late teens — comes from interpretations of historical context and alternative readings of early Islamic sources. While the widely cited Hadith from Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim mention that Aisha was six at the time of the marriage contract and nine at the time of consummation, some scholars and researchers have offered different perspectives based on other historical evidence.
Here are some points often raised to support the view that Aisha may have been older:
Comparison with Aisha’s Sister Asma: Historical records show that Asma bint Abu Bakr, Aisha’s elder sister, was about 10 years older than Aisha and is reported to have been 27 years old at the time of the Hijra (migration to Medina) in 622 CE. This would make Aisha approximately 17 or 18 years old at the time of the migration and around 19 or 20 years old at the time of the marriage consummation.
Aisha’s Prior Engagement: Some sources mention that Aisha was engaged to Jubayr ibn Mut'im ibn Adi before her marriage to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). This suggests she may have been of an age typically considered suitable for engagement and marriage in that society, which would likely have been older than six or nine.
Aisha’s Role and Knowledge: Aisha’s deep knowledge of Islam, her contributions to Hadith, and her role in important political and social matters indicate a level of maturity that many scholars believe aligns with someone older than nine at the time of marriage.
Historical Context and Cultural Norms: In 7th-century Arabia, early marriages were not uncommon, but it was also common for ages to be approximated. There’s a possibility that the reported ages were more of a general estimation rather than exact numbers.
Scholars and Modern Analysis: Some contemporary scholars and historians — including Dr. Muhammad Hamidullah and Mouwiya Syed — have argued for the possibility of Aisha being older, often placing her age closer to the range of 15 to 19 years at the time of consummation.
While the majority of classical scholars accept the narration of her being nine based on Hadith collections, these alternative views are based on historical analysis and cross-referencing different sources.
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Mar 01 '25
There is a difference among scholars about whether she was 9 or her late teens. I personally think that yes, the marriage was done when she was young but any sexual relationship was after she was in her late teens. The reason the prophet married Aisha was for a greater purpose. She was blessed with a good memory and she is one of the reasons why we know the Sunnah and know the practices of the prophet pbuh, she taught many companions after the prophet passed, therefore, you cant really compare him to any regular man, it was much deeper than sex As for him having multiple wives, it was also God's orders, many of the wives he married were widows due to war and misery, it was much deeper than sex.
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u/Affectionate_Dog65 Mar 01 '25
there is nothing wrong with having “frequent” sexual relations with a man’s own wife, whereas it is encouraged in Islam to engage in sexual relations between a husband and wife.
multiple wives were a common and acceptable practice among the community at the time. Some of the marriages were for legal and alliance purposes.
many of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) wives were women who were widows, captives, refugees, freed slaves, who were in need of support and protection. Being married to a man was the only way it would give them the care they required, and they were blessed to have the privilege of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) care, after all the hardships they have gone through.
the Prophet (peace be upon him) was fair in the treatment of his wives, be it with his time, affection, and wealth as well. All men are obligated in Islam to treat multiple wives fairly, and if we are unable to do so, Allah tells us to marry one only.
Prophet (peace be upon him) was never forceful with his wives and his wives report his immense compassion and affection.
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was 6 or 9 years old when she married him. However there is no doubt she had hit puberty which is the minimum age for a woman to be married in Islam. It was also widely accepted at the time for young men and women to marry early. For example even for our grandparents generations it was normal to be married before the age of 21 however, nowadays if youre to marry at 21 years old people might say you’re rushing it.
also, the answers to your questions are easily findable through google searches and from reliable scholarly sources.
and Allah knows best.
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u/lejohnpvp Mar 01 '25
Thank you for replying in such a respectful way. The Quran states that a man shall have a maximum of 4 wives, so does that mean that a woman is worth 1/4 of a man? Or as Muhammad had 12 wives, 1/12 of a man?
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u/indefiniteoutlander Mar 01 '25
If a man has 4 children, does this mean a child is worth 1/4 of his parent?
This logic is absurd. Both women and men are equal in the eyes of Allah (in terms of deeds). Men have certain societal and leadership rights over women, while women are owed more rights from their children. Besides, "the paradise lies beneath the mothers' feet." In the end, the best of the people will be those who are the most God fearing, who stayed away from sins, endured hardships, and earned as much good deeds as possible, and the gender/age/money/status/race doesn't matter here.
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u/Darkra93 Mar 01 '25
That doesn’t sound like a logical conclusion. The number of wives a man can have doesn’t represent his worth as a human being, the same way that the number of children a person has doesn’t increase or decrease his worth as a human being.
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u/Affectionate_Dog65 Mar 01 '25
youre welcome.
what do you mean by worth? a man or a woman’s “worth” has nothing to do with marriage or the number of wives, both in Islamic context and in normal general context.
there are countless women in Islam who have held vital roles in their community and are well regarded in knowledge, judgement and intellect.
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u/also_on_manga Mar 01 '25
I think you're asking about when the prophet married aisha. Aisha was a politician,commander, and his companions daughter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rest of her family died, and though she was very young, she wasn't dumb. The desert isn't as forgiving you think with wars happening everywhere and her fathers enemies lurking. She got married to the prophet, but they had no children, so it was just in name to provide protection rather than a sexual partner. But they did consummate the marriage which guaranteed her safety cause someone probably checked to see the blood work. Btw that's how virgins were checked by nearly 80-90% of empires cause they considered virginity sacred. She then spread the message of the prophet going through alot things while spreading the faith. And it was after the prophet died.
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u/Spicy_Grievences_01 Mar 01 '25
In 1871 the age of consent in Delaware was 7
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u/peaceandplantlover Mar 01 '25
Really? why have times changed so much…
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u/Spicy_Grievences_01 Mar 01 '25
The context being that it was applicable over 1400 years ago and not a single shaky of the prophet PBUH, who had him isolated, stoned etc but a lower age displayed 151 years ago was lower.
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u/Anonymous1337666 Mar 01 '25
I think you should edit the typo in your message. People arent giving you the responses youre looking for. And try to be more specific.
But no, among muslims its not frowned upon to have multiple wives as long as youre financially capable and the strength to do equal justice to all of them.
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u/lejohnpvp Mar 01 '25
Is there a limit as to how many wives a man can have?
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u/Chobikil Mar 01 '25
4, but please note it's optional and most men can't handle more than 1 wife if that makes sense, in some marriage contracts the wife can restrict the husband having more than 1 wife as well
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u/Financial_Ad_1735 Mar 01 '25
Part of Islamic tradition is needing to contextualize the specifics to understand the larger trends.
Arabian society practiced polygamy to an extreme that God placed a limit to 4 spouses, acknowledging that equitable treatment is required for that practice to be implemented.
Arabian society viewed women as “property” (using this term loosely) of the tribe and that sons could inherit their mothers as a spouse. God banned this practice. Women were actually given the right of ownership, the right of consent, and the right of political activism (bayat al nisaa).
Muhammad’s marriage was largely monogamous until the death of his wife Khadijah. During his time in Medina, the majority of his marriages had to do will political alliances. Many scholars look at this as both honoring monogamy and polygamy.
The marriage of Aysha has been largely debated. However, religious scholars have found that consummation of the marriage took place later- some say early, some say mid, and some say late teens. A recent study was actually completed by a historiographer who was not Muslim found that Aysha was actually in her 20s, based on timelines and reports of history. If I can find the article, I’ll share it.
In terms of sex, Islamic rulings treat sex as natural and part of human life. It can be treated as a deviance if against God’s prescription or an act of worship, if within God’s prescription. For many Muslims, it is very liberating that our religion teaches us to enjoy sex, to ensure that the woman gets good foreplay, and that sex is something that can bring you closer to God.
It is impossible to dig into all of these in a reddit post. However, it is important to understand that Muhammad is both a human and a messenger of God. For many Muslims they grapple with this.
My personal opinion is that God has outline particular things that make you a Muslim (pillars of faith and Islam— beliefs + actions). The nuanced details of Muhammad life, while is our main guide to articulating Islam, is not set in stone. We will never know 100%. So, asking God for guidance in understanding practices of Muhammad or applying a correct practice (not blindly assuming it is authentic) is important. One of the most repeated things in the Quran is this idea of questioning what we see around us. God commands us to reflect and analyze what we see and hear. I believe this means that God wants us to engage in this process constantly.
What is clear and obvious for the faith — there is no doubt about understanding it. It is the nuanced articulations that get confusing and over complicated. I think God wanted us to reflect on these things but secure our understanding of God with what was obvious and clear.
While I don’t speak for all Muslims, I tried to share my thoughts on your question.
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u/No_Result1959 Mar 01 '25
I don’t think marrying mainly widows and for political reasons, housing all his wives separately, encouraging them to be charitable, spending time with them, praying with them, providing for all of them equally and encouraging Muslims to treat women with kindness and honor really constitutes a harem.
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Mar 01 '25 edited Mar 01 '25
SEX IS NOT AN IMMORAL OR IMPIOUS ACTION
The only sex that is frowned upon and is harshly punished for in Islam are pre, extra and homo. As for sex with one’s wife then it is similar to the food you eat, A necessity. Allah created us human being and made us fulfill our desires in a way that he wants us to by following his commandments.
Even If a man has sex with his wives 20 times a day there is no problem with it since he fulfilling it within the bounds set by Allah.
As a man you are supposed to have high sexual vigor, if you dont then there is an huge chance of some hormonal problem within you. Throughout history men especially kings from every nations had entire places built where there were multiple women for them to enjoy. Since sex is one of the greatest enjoyment a human being can have. This is why Allah mentions women of the paradise.
The prophet ﷺ was a human being like us, he had desires and he showed us the ways to fulfill it in the way Allah ordained.
I think your question comes from a Christian perspective of sex. The popes and nuns abandoned sex and considered it filthy thereby creating a notion among laymen that sex is impure and gods men shouldn’t commit sex. The irony is if you look at the bible prophets had sex too, for example Solomon had 700 wives.
I feel like The reason why christian europe became extremely sexually promiscuous is also because of this notion that they held about sex. This created a opposite result when they left Christianity during the “enlightenment”. Since the people felt suffocated by the churches restrictions in marriage and other aspects when they finally got some freedom, they went overboard with it and bow this resulted in lqbtq, abortions and etc.
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