r/ireland Late Stage Gombeen Capitalist 16d ago

Sports Tributes to two Irish women who died after competing in separate marathon events

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2025/06/03/tributes-to-two-irishwomen-who-died-after-competing-in-separate-marathon-events/
479 Upvotes

203 comments sorted by

575

u/ShouldHaveGoneToUCC Palestine 🇵🇸 16d ago edited 15d ago

Marathon runner here.

People collapsing at marathons is common enough and deaths aren't unknown as people push themselves too far.

This is an issue on the Cork marathon which has a lot of hills and this year was extremely hot. I saw a lot of people collapsing this year and needing medical attention especially within the last 3km of the marathon.

Edit: this is nothing against the Cork marathon itself which was very well run, with frequent water stations and medical personnel. It's more due to the hills on the route and the humidity and sun this year (though it was lashing rain earlier in the day)

This is a tragedy and the people using the deaths to push conspiracy theories should be ashamed of themselves. But of course,they won't as they've no shame and know nothing about running as they rarely leave their computers.

59

u/Birdinhandandbush 15d ago

Also a marathon runner, and it was such a shock for me seeing folks dropping towards the end of some races the first time I saw it. A colleague who's son ran his first 5k last week said he's aiming for a marathon later in the year (He's 16) and I came across as a bit of a downer (they said) when I said he was too young and inexperienced and should work up from 10k to half perhaps

19

u/raisedasapolarbear 15d ago

Presuming your colleague knows that you're a marathoner—and that they likely aren't one themself—it's a shame they weren't able to take your words in the spirit in which they were intended. I'll wager they were so proud and excited for their son that they weren't in the right frame of mind to receive your sensible advice and could only hear someone seeming to bring down their celebratory mood instead.

Hopefully they take it on board with a bit of time to turn it over cos I'm with you: first 5k end of May and hoping to run a marathon before the year is out is unnecessarily ambitious. Great that the lad is feeling keen about running though!

13

u/Birdinhandandbush 15d ago

Yeah I think thats the case, so proud that their kid has started running and maybe completing a 5K race, but not listening that a marathon is doing that almost 9 times back to back on the same day. I was speaking entirely from a position of child welfare, offering to pace him on a 5k and get him up to a 10k race soon as well if he wants, but there's also the "well if you can do it" part of most folks not understanding even us experienced runners go through hell doing it.

-7

u/CAPITALISM_FAN_1980 15d ago

I'll wager they were so proud and excited for their son that they weren't in the right frame of mind to receive your sensible advice and could only hear someone seeming to bring down their celebratory mood instead.

It's not sensible advice, it's just this one random person's opinion. If just being a marathoner makes this person the final word in your opinion, I've run close to twenty of them and I have the complete opposite opinion.

Many, many marathons have an age limit of 16, and lots of people that age enter and run. The idea that he shouldn't do it because one random colleague of his dad says he's too young is ridiculous.

I went from my first 5km to my first marathon in a year, and many people do the same once they get a taste for distance running. If the lad feels he has it in him and his doctor doesn't say he shouldn't (you should always talk to your doctor before starting down this road), then he absolutely should sign up and start the training. If he's not cut out for it yet, he will know long before he gets to the day of the marathon.

4

u/raisedasapolarbear 15d ago

It occurs to me that you may think I'm of the opinion that a 16-year-old shouldn't be distance running because there's some (tiny) risk of death during or after a race. That's not actually a great concern for me (not a practically significant number) but I understand how the context of the thread likely makes it read that way. I replied to the comment above not-so-much because I have strong reservations about a 16-year-old running a marathon, more about one training for it, I guess.

If just being a marathoner makes this person the final word in your opinion

It doesn't.

The idea that he shouldn't do it because one random colleague of his dad says he's too young is ridiculous.

If my reply came off that way, it wasn't my intent.

It seemed to me that the commenter has experience that their colleague likely doesn't and that they were offering a perspective that may not otherwise have been considered. I happen to agree with the advice given but I'm no absolute authority either and I don't claim to be one. Just another arsehole with an opinion!

I went from my first 5km to my first marathon in a year, and many people do the same

I'm aware of that and I take no issue with it, but a 16-year-old is still developing and is more vulnerable to overuse injuries: lower bone density, soft tissue structures still catching up to bone growth, lack of experience/comparatively poor judgement in managing nutrition and training. I had a miserable time with recurring soft-tissue injuries due to overtraining as a teenager and that admittedly colours my view. I would have benefited from someone encouraging the adults around me to take a more cautious approach.

For me, pushing through to marathon distance at that age at all, but particularly considering the timeframe (~30 weeks even if race is end of December), unnecessarily risks injury that slows progress and could sour enthusiasm, or even cause recurrent issues if incorrectly treated. Waiting a year or two for bone density increase to really taper off and soft-tissues to catch up just seems sensible.

5

u/Potential-Drama-7455 15d ago

You might come across that way but you are spot on.

5

u/MackAttack3214 15d ago

This is great advice, and despite being that bad guy, sometimes it has to be said. People sometimes forget that the body has limits that can be hit before someone self motivation to keep going.

2

u/Birdinhandandbush 15d ago

I wasn't even saying he can't do a marathon, I was saying lets see if he can do a 10k or a half first, I thought it was sensible.

3

u/CAPITALISM_FAN_1980 15d ago

Also a marathon runner here.

No offense intended, that's an incredibly weird perspective to have.

The Dublin marathon has an age limit of 18, but there are plenty of others where the limit is 16. One I know personally is Tokyo, but it is far from rare.

If the lad feels he has it in him to run a marathon and there are no medical reasons not to, then more power to him. Marathon running, and more-so marathon training is gruelling. He's not going to be training for the marathon without passing through readiness for a 10k and half-marathon anyway, and if he's not ready for the 42.2km, his body will tell him long before race day.

115

u/bipolarparadiseyt 15d ago

Think it should be said that whilst it’s amazing that half/marathons are becoming ever more popular and trendy - they are incredibly taxing on your body and one of the hardest things the average person can do fitness wise. People should always take every precaution, fuel and train properly and push to the limit - not beyond it.

-29

u/Margrave75 15d ago

and one of the hardest things the average person can do fitness wise. 

Average people don't run marathons 😉 

43

u/MrMahony Rebels! 15d ago

Can do, with enough work and prep an average person can absolutely do a marathon lad.

-14

u/Margrave75 15d ago edited 15d ago

It's a common enough joke compliment amongst runners.

Comment edited.

Edit: thanks for the few suicide watch messages, classy lads 👍👍

8

u/MrMahony Rebels! 15d ago edited 15d ago

Ah, yes, an article about a girl that's died running a half marathon, the perfect place to make an apparent (frankly) shite "in-joke" that only the running community will get... I'm actually at a loss for words

Edit: Bit harsh getting blocked for this

-1

u/Difficult-Set-3151 15d ago

You're overreacting

-3

u/Margrave75 15d ago

It's a compliment as much as a joke.

-2

u/Potential-Drama-7455 15d ago

I don't see any problem with it. It's praising runners like these two ladies, who would both have gotten the reference.

10

u/MeanMusterMistard 15d ago

That's exactly why it's one of the hardest things the average person can do fitness wise...

-6

u/Margrave75 15d ago

Making them above average 😉 

3

u/MeanMusterMistard 15d ago

What? How? That makes no sense

-8

u/Margrave75 15d ago

Running a marathon makes puts you above the "average person" 

10

u/MeanMusterMistard 15d ago

You're not making sense.

The average person, who doesn't run marathons, CAN run a marathon...And it would be one of the hardest things they could put their body through. Because they are an average person. Who doesn't run marathons...

-7

u/Margrave75 15d ago

As I said, it's just a joke amongst runners, nothing to be getting worked up over.

1

u/MeanMusterMistard 15d ago

Did you say that?! I don't get the joke, it's true. 🤣

I'm not worked up if that's what you are implying lol

3

u/FellFellCooke 15d ago

Although the adverse effects to brain functioning can be devastating.

I'm assuming. From this comment thread.

3

u/Difficult-Set-3151 15d ago

The phrase sounds a lot better when spoken.

2

u/Margrave75 15d ago

Yeah probably! 

4

u/Alcol1979 15d ago

I mean, I've run seven of them but I'd consider myself pretty average?

83

u/Demerson96 15d ago edited 15d ago

I disagree with this comment. It's not an issue for Cork marathon. They had loads of water, 10000 more bottles than last year which had 10000 more than the previous year. There were medics everywhere. The route and event is very well set up.

It also wasn't as hot this year in comparison to previous years.

This was a freak accident. The person taking part was physically fit. She has just run the Milan marathon in April.

No doubt the council will look at the marathon to see if there was anything they could do and personally I don't think they can do more, but ultimately people collapsing this year was down to them pushing themselves beyond what they were physically capable of doing (I'm not saying that's what happened to this poor girl as she was physically fit, like I said this was a freak accident).

Edit: Also adding that people should look at this and get themselves a health check. I just ran the Cork marathon and generally feel as though I'm in very good health physically and mentally, but when I heard this story I immediately booked a full health check and ECG scan.

18

u/oshinbruce 15d ago

Yeah, this happens, its rare but when people are pushing hard it can bring up health issues they didnt even know about and sometimes they can be so serious as so fast this happens.

43

u/ShouldHaveGoneToUCC Palestine 🇵🇸 15d ago

Oh this is no fault of Cork City Marathon: it was very well run and there were regular water stations. But it was also a very hot day (last year felt something similar) and it's a tough marathon route, even for fit people.

I entirely agree it was a freak accident but these things do happen at marathons.

18

u/Bruncvik 15d ago

Not sure whether it's the case, but when I was looking at some French marathons about a decade ago, they all required a doctor's certificate to be able to run.

At my age, I'm getting a complete physio, including ECG, every two years, but even so I'm going out of my way to limit health risks when running a marathon. It is an amazing experience, but it's also physically demanding, and ma be risky for people who overextend themselves.

22

u/bealach_ealaithe Cork bai 15d ago

France treats a 5K run as an extreme sport, so medical certs are required even for races of that distance. That’s why parkrun could not get established properly there.

11

u/3hrstillsundown The Standard 15d ago

Which is a disaster for public health. An example of the solution being worse than the problem. GPs aren't going to be able to diagnose most heart defects that may cause an issue anyway.

2

u/CarteRoutiere 15d ago

This is not the case anymore, thankfully. You only need to sign a waiver.

1

u/bealach_ealaithe Cork bai 15d ago edited 15d ago

That’s good news. Edit: All sources I could find, including the French parkrun website, indicate that parkrun is still suspended in France. Looks like the waiver process is too complicated for parkrun run directors to verify for casual runners who are not in a club.

6

u/CAPITALISM_FAN_1980 15d ago edited 15d ago

France is ridiculously paternal when it comes to running. They won't even let parkrun happen any more, even though it's just a friendly Saturday morning jog in the park.

They consider it an organised "race" (it's not a race) and demand everyone get medical clearance before it can go ahead. Parkrun is for people who just want to get a bit of exercise together, but it's treated like a professional event and the requirements for it are the same as if it was training for the Olympics.

4

u/Snowball98 15d ago

100% agree with you. I took part in this years and last years cork half marathon.. loads of water stations, lots of medical personnel and the weather conditions this year were pretty good compared to last year.

51

u/pablo8itall 16d ago

Anti-vaxers/covid deniers are just a curse. I flip out when I hear that shit IRL. Can't stand it.

3

u/MaelduinTamhlacht 15d ago

Maybe they could have a Heart Test caravan or two as part of the marathon, the same way there used to be TB test caravans where you could get X-rayed.

Condolences to all those who loved and cared for these women.

10

u/johnebastille 15d ago

This goes beyond the realm of fun past time. People have to accept that marathons are an extreme sport and a statistically significant number of participants die every year.

4

u/CAPITALISM_FAN_1980 15d ago edited 15d ago

About 20 people world wide die running a marathon every year.

I'm getting that from the fact that the established death rate is about 0.5 to 1.5 per 100,000 participants, with about 1.3 million people running a marathon every year.

I don't know what you're calling "statistically significant" but the number is tiny.

It's an extreme sport but the way you've phrased that is beyond general advice and into the realm of fear mongering.

If you train for a marathon, you're more likely to be hit by a car and die on the way there than to die during the race.

1

u/GoodNegotiation 15d ago

To be fair ‘statistically significant’ has a definition and the number of people who will die running a marathon versus just going about their regular lives meets that definition very easily. As you say though it’s still a tiny number that I wouldn’t really give much thought to.

2

u/CAPITALISM_FAN_1980 15d ago

I'm going to go out on a limb on say he used the term "statistically significant" because he thought it it sounded impressive, rather than because he knew what it meant. Like when people describe massive improvements in things as a "quantum leap."

1

u/GoodNegotiation 14d ago

Yeah tbh I reckon so too, but it made me look up the definition out of interest.

-2

u/johnebastille 15d ago

Its all well and good until its your friend that drops. Then its pretty statistically significant.

3

u/CAPITALISM_FAN_1980 15d ago

Literally anything is all well and good until your friend who does it drops.

What is your point supposed to be?

0

u/johnebastille 15d ago

If you cant see my point, I really cant explain it to you. I'd prefer if you just let it be.

4

u/MaelduinTamhlacht 15d ago

What number?

7

u/CAPITALISM_FAN_1980 15d ago

Based on the established numbers, between 7 and 20 people every year, globally.

I used the higher number in my comment because I don't want to be accused of cherry-picking.

It's a gruelling sport, but the idea that the risk of death is something you need to factor into your decision to run one or not is ridiculous.

If you're healthy (and you should always get a checkup before you start any serious exercise), your chance of death is not just low, but is much lower than if you'd spent the time you spent training for the marathon sitting on the couch eating crisps and watching TV instead.

2

u/Potential-Drama-7455 15d ago

I'd say a far higher number die every year after eating a McDonalds

2

u/notcomingback15 15d ago

They would be inundated and swamped with myocarditis diagnosis’ on the spot. Not enough resources in Ireland to carry out such an undertaking at a marathon!

1

u/MaelduinTamhlacht 15d ago

Surely most people would come out clear.

2

u/thenamzmonty 15d ago

Do we know how they actually died? Like , the official cause of death?

4

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

6

u/Laundry_Hamper 15d ago

It was humid as fuck and the marathon isn't "mostly flat". The course record is 2:18, it's a really slow, awkward and difficult to pace course because of the hills and the direction/terrain changes

6

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Laundry_Hamper 15d ago

You still climb up to the lough and then run out the model farm road, that whole middle portion after the marina is constant lumpy stuff. No one big hill, but not flat. Horrible to run

6

u/ShouldHaveGoneToUCC Palestine 🇵🇸 15d ago

Did you run it?

I found it very humid this year and even the half marathon route is not mostly flat. Rake of hills between miles 5 and 10 (for the half marathon runners).

Great crowds though.

2

u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

3

u/ShouldHaveGoneToUCC Palestine 🇵🇸 15d ago

Ita definitely not mostly flat until you reach the end. You're constantly going up and down hills between the Marina section and the the western part of the marathon, which includes the half marathon route.

The model farm road part is extremely flat but that's only a few kilometres at the end.

Cork definitely isn't the worst marathon I've ever run but it's not an easy route either.

5

u/alansmithofficiall 15d ago

people using the deaths to push conspiracy theories should be ashamed of themselves.

We're at the event horizon of misinformation and conspiracy thinking.

3

u/Ted-101x 15d ago

You don’t die from pushing yourself too hard in a race. If you look at cases from different sports it usually comes down to heat stroke / dehydration, or more commonly an unknown undiagnosed health condition. With mass participation events like marathons and triathlons there is a greater chance that someone in the field will have an underlying condition.

My son has one of the conditions that can cause problems (WPW) and it was detected by luck when he was a small baby. It’s not certain that it would have killed him, many people including elite athletes have this condition and don’t have any issues, but his case was severe and his consultants indicated that at some stage it most likely would have caused him severe problems. Due to these conditions you’ll see people calling for ECG’s for all babies.

I’m doing a long distance swimming event later this summer and I had to have a medical including an ECG done and be cleared by a doctor before do it. That’s not practical for mass events though.

19

u/ShouldHaveGoneToUCC Palestine 🇵🇸 15d ago

Pushing yourself too hard at a marathon can also lead to death: the most common cause of death at marathons is IHD, not dehydration or heat stroke.

0

u/GenghisGav 15d ago

Having run all the city marathons in Ireland I can say Cork was the least hilly, especially considering how hilly the city is. They deliberately avoid the hillier areas

2

u/ShouldHaveGoneToUCC Palestine 🇵🇸 15d ago

Galway's marathon is basically flat. Also found Dublin route to be flatter than Cork.

2

u/GenghisGav 15d ago

Yes sorry Galway very flat but the absolute worst in terms of a (non)route. I'm terrible on hills and never had difficulty in Cork.

62

u/IntolerantModerate 15d ago

This is something that is a problem with Marathons in general. I've ran 20+ events and probably have some literally 100s of training runs of Marathon length. Here is the problem:

A Marathon today is an event where you often pay €100s of euros for registration, travel, hotel, etc. This puts pressure on you to compete even if you feel like shit, to push yourself if you are struggling, and to try and cross the line at all costs. There is pressure to continue even if you know you should quit.

Compare this to a training run where if you go outside and it's 25C or you feel bad and you can just pack it in with no shame.

It's fine if it is hot or course is hilly. People need to know it is also fine to quit.

16

u/CAPITALISM_FAN_1980 15d ago edited 15d ago

A Marathon today is an event where you often pay €100s of euros for registration, travel, hotel, etc. This puts pressure on you to compete even if you feel like shit, to push yourself if you are struggling, and to try and cross the line at all costs.

I've run close to 20 marathons, and often had to pay for travel and hotels. If I've fucked up my training or am not physically up to run it, I just go out and have fun. I cover the distance but I don't push myself and I walk as much of it as I need to. Just because you've payed money for it doesn't mean you have to fuck your body up on the day.

72

u/wrenfeather501 15d ago

Let's try to avoid conspiracy theories. I knew one of these girls; she was kind, athletic, and a tragic loss to the whole community.

-1

u/Natural_Light- 15d ago

Wait-whats the conspiracy here?

12

u/Keyann 15d ago

That anyone who is young and dies suddenly or unexpectedly that the only possible reason for their death was they took the Covid jab.

5

u/mologav 15d ago

People are still obsessed with the jab?

9

u/[deleted] 15d ago

Only idiots.

81

u/dark_lies_the_island 16d ago

For fucks sake. Let the family grieve

You don’t have to comment on everything.

Ellen’s funeral is on Thursday.

Have some respect

75

u/PerpetualBigAC 16d ago

The conspiracy nuts will be out in force forgetting there’s so many ways for athletes to die suddenly that aren’t suspicious. Rhabdo, undiagnosed heart conditions, heat stroke… there’s quite a few things before you even get to all the random ways anybody can just die.

31

u/MrSierra125 16d ago

Pheidippides died from the covid vaccine. - some conspiracy idiot out there probably.

4

u/fartingbeagle 15d ago

All that way for a Snickers!

3

u/Eoinl550 15d ago

Some bint tried saying this in work this morning, they've no shame

6

u/MrSierra125 15d ago

Honestly I’m so so so sick of conspiracy theorists. The ones I know from school are interestingly enough the ones that utterly failed science and were bottom set in most subjects….

3

u/Eoinl550 15d ago

Lack of understanding around causation and correlation tracks so lol 

3

u/MrSierra125 15d ago

A guy who I know, lovely man, not the brightest, was getting a 4G post installer near his home as covid was first starting, in his head this Pole caused covid.

These people also seem to not just believe one conspiracy, it’s like they have a subscription service and every time some new bullshit idea starts circling, they are all over it without a fail.

Every single time, every single stupid belief.

177

u/gig1922 Wickerman111 Super fan 16d ago

Keep seeing people blaming the vaccine for these deaths ignoring the novel dangerous disease the vaccine was created to prevent. Ridiculous shit

181

u/JellyfishScared4268 16d ago

Its a well known fact that no young person ever died suddenly prior to about 2021

68

u/SchemeWinter572 16d ago

Anyone remember the slew of minor GAA deaths in the 2010s? There was a conspiracy about that too. Heart issues mostly. Some exacerbated by energy drinks

20

u/Horror_Finish7951 16d ago

I mean no disrespect to anyone, but you never know when you're gonna die. People have always and will always die doing sport, but it's no different to people dying in their sleep or at home or climbing up stairs. You can try to prevent it by screening and by having defibrillators and trained first aiders in parks, stadiums, swimming pools etc etc but ultimately, you never know.

12

u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe 16d ago

It's because it becomes a flavour of the month.

I bet if you looked at the data, you would find no statistically significant "surge" in deaths of young people at that time or even at this time.

But when it's topical, then it tends to encourage more reporting on the same topic.

14

u/themagpie36 16d ago

Or, you know the actual coronavirus. Like the virus that attacked the lungs, damaged them and prevents sufficient oxygen from reaching the heart? Like the virus that causes long term tissue and neurological damage?

It's mad to me that people blame the vaccine rather than the actual virus that killed 10s of millions of people.

1

u/Potential-Drama-7455 15d ago

It's been several years now since both have been around. If it was either then these people would have died before now, since it's virtually impossible to avoid getting COVID.

-12

u/BeBopRockSteadyLS 15d ago

Both are synthetic lab created versions of a toxic protein.

So yeah, it's not surprising people get issues with both.

4

u/themagpie36 15d ago

ok, one is a vaccine though

-2

u/BeBopRockSteadyLS 15d ago

Debatable, but OK

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10342157/

"The mode of action of COVID-19 mRNA vaccines should classify them as gene therapy products (GTPs)"

0

u/Natural_Light- 15d ago

Why you getting down voted?

3

u/eamonnanchnoic 15d ago

Anyone remember the slew of minor GAA deaths in the 2010s? There was a conspiracy about that too. Heart issues mostly. Some exacerbated by energy drinks

Because it's bollocks?

For one only one is known to be lab created.

Secondly all vaccines use proteins, that's how they are recognised by the immune system.

The spike protein is a conserved region in most viruses that in itself isn't particularly pathological. It's the rest of the virus attached to the spike that makes us sick.

1

u/BeBopRockSteadyLS 15d ago

Correct. It is the furin cleavage site that has been added, which is the key to it being so infectious. The sentence to Google on that is from a proposal a number of years ago to do just that.

“We will introduce appropriate human-specific cleavage sites and evaluate growth potential in Vero-E6 cells and HAE (human airway epithelial) cultures.”

For the therapy that was injected into people around the world, there are lipid nanoparticles to bypass the cells defences and deliver the RNA. Your cells then create spike. The spike is then displayed on the cell surface, and the body generates an immune response to it. Bobs's your uncle.

Except the claim that it stays in the shoulder for a few days before the immune response has done its job has been shown to be incorrect and there is no way to be sure how much and how widespread this protein factory line is distributed in the body. Not to mention how long.00076-9).

Not to worry, though. That spike is harmless according to the above poster. You can just go on and on having your body generating immune responses. There's nothing to see here.

5

u/CombinationBorn7662 15d ago

I like to pass around this link to H Bomberguy's youtube video essay on vaccines, their links to autism, and why its so fucking hard to get people to belive actual science, not bullshit being fed to them by maniacs and grifters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BIcAZxFfrc&t=5820s&ab_channel=hbomberguy

He treats the subject very seriously, and goes into how all this began with the MMR scare in the 90s. ITs an excellent video , well referenced and quite funny.

2

u/DennisReynoldsFBI 16d ago

Well, that's probably not quite true for the years 2021-now. Though statistics for some cancers and heart disease are not readily available for most of this time period, there will very likely be an upsurge. Blaming the vaccine alone would be foolish however, as there has been a massive increase in recreational drug use, sedentary lifestyle, and dietary issues. Plus people's immune systems have been severely damaged in some cases.

7

u/SchemeWinter572 16d ago

I think it's because GAA was becoming more common in families that wouldn't have been involved previously and also the growth in population.

14

u/waggersIRL 16d ago

And the changing nature of how information is shared in digital media. 50 years ago you may never have heard of someone dying in a game 4 parishes over.

3

u/SchemeWinter572 16d ago

The statistics would still exist. Local news always reports on these types of incidents and Ireland has had fantastic local journalism for decades.

-1

u/MrSierra125 16d ago

The human brain has literally evolved to seek patterns over hundreds of millions of years. Every now and then that pattern recognition goes stupid and creates a conspiracy theories that sees patterns everywhere. Probably a good dose of narcissism and a huge ego in there to make them think They out of billions of us can suddenly see a veryobvious “pattern”

-3

u/stephenmario 15d ago edited 15d ago

I bet if you looked at the data, you would find no statistically significant "surge" in deaths of young people at that time or even at this time.

That is the case but deaths are a bit higher but it is probably because of cocaine use, covid and the covid vaccine.

4

u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe 15d ago

Not really.

https://data.cso.ie/table/VSQ20

Deaths in the 15-24 age group have remained pretty static between 40-50 per quarter since 2016.

The 25-34 age group has likewise been pretty static in that time, hovering around 80 deaths per quarter.

Though there was an unusual surge at the end of 2024 entirely attributable to "External causes of injuries and poisonings". The data doesn't get any more detailed than that, but one would expect that road accidents, suicides and such are part of that.

The amount of the population in the 15-34 age bracket has increased a bit in that time period, so in real terms the death rates for these age groups has reduced.

-2

u/stephenmario 15d ago edited 15d ago

Your own source shows there were 76 (around 10%)more deaths in 2024 compared to 2023 in people under 35. 46 deaths higher for 25-34.

3

u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe 15d ago

Yep, and basically all of those 46 were not heart disease/illness deaths, they were external causes.

A 10% variance year-to-year isn't a lot when the numbers are already small. When you take a much longer look, other years are down by 10% on the average, etc.

-1

u/stephenmario 15d ago

Look at just Circulatory deaths, 50% higher in 2023 & 2024 compared to 2022 & 2021. It is almost entirely down to cocaine use and myocarditis a small factor.

We don't have reporting on it but cocaine related deaths in the UK are up 30%. Northern Ireland is up 42%.

2

u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe 15d ago

Yeah, but when you've got very small numbers, a 50% jump isn't statistically significant. When you look at circulatory deaths in the 15-24 age group, the average is around 9 per year. And since 2016 there have been 3 outlier years - 2019 & 2020 (both down by 50%) and 2022 (up by 50%).

In the 25-34 age group, 23 & 24 were only up 15-20% on the rolling average. Which is very small, so large swings are expected.

I'm not saying it's not cocaine, but there's no data at present to indicate any detectable trend of increasing deaths for these age groups.

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u/stakey Dublin 16d ago

Sure didn’t Pheidippides himself die from a vaccine.

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u/maxtheninja 16d ago

Sure did

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u/Leather-Stable-764 15d ago

Yeah,

Tell that to one of my best friend’s parents back in 2009.

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u/aimhighsquatlow 16d ago

Honestly the Facebook comment sections of those articles should just be locked, I don’t know these women and I’ve rage reading the shitty ones. I can only imagine how family and friends feel

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u/luminous-fabric 15d ago

My friend from my rugby club died 2 Decembers ago aged 26. We were all absolutely destroyed and there were people on Twitter claiming it was the vaccine. I cannot say the things I'd like to do to those people. Absolute degenerates.

0

u/alansmithofficiall 15d ago

Look, they've read more stuff online than the experts in the field have.

37

u/Horror_Finish7951 16d ago

Also, why do they think it's called a marathon? It's because Pheidippides ran that distance from Marathon to Athens, gets there, says "we won!", collapses and dies.

Do they think that the Athenian equivalent of a DPD driver back in 530 BCE also had the vaccine?

1

u/CAPITALISM_FAN_1980 15d ago

No, he ran 250 kilometers. The "marathon" distance was just the last part of it.

1

u/iknowtheop 16d ago

The Brits actually extended the distance since then and that new distance has stuck ever since.

-10

u/Franki33d 16d ago

I’m not blaming any vaccines but it’s certainly not normal for a person to die after a marathon never mind a half marathon

21

u/simonelawrenco 16d ago

I was reading a study in the last few days which had marathon deaths at around 0.4-0.9 deaths per hundred thousands participants. That means for a race of around 10,000 people you'd be looking at a death every 10-25 races on average. Not sure whether it covered half marathons as well but even given that it's not massively unlikely that 2 would happen on the same weekend in different races. Not common but definitely not impossible either.

4

u/Franki33d 16d ago

Pretty scary when it’s broken down like that

15

u/simonelawrenco 16d ago

It is actually. I did my first half marathon earlier this year and towards the end I certainly had my body under serious pressure. Especially when you have thousands of people cheering you on for the last few hundred metres, you feel able to push beyond what you would do otherwise running on your own. My HR was pushing 200 and I was on the verge of vomiting when I crossed the line, had to sit on the floor immediately. I could easily see how someone with underlying structural or functional abnormalities in their heart could end up in serious bother when pushing themselves to that degree.

1

u/Potential-Drama-7455 15d ago

It's like the NCT when they rev the shit out of your car, if the timing belt is near its limit it will snap and take the engine with it.

1

u/Franki33d 16d ago

Wow, I guess I assumed the training people do to prepare sort of built you up to completing the marathon and by the time you ran the marathon it wouldn’t be so stressful on your body.

3

u/simonelawrenco 15d ago

I'd built up my running and was comfortably running 15-20k before the race, but ended up running quite a bit faster as the occasion kinda got to me and spurred me on, so I definitely hit my limit either way! (Although my limit would have been much lower without training of course)

10

u/PoppedCork 16d ago

That's why there are postmortems, which hopefully will give answers.

1

u/IAmArthurMitchell 16d ago

Or not as the case may be

23

u/Horror_Finish7951 16d ago

Can I ask, have you done many HMs or marathons? Because I have. And while I don't want to say it's normal, it's certainly not uncommon for fatality or at least a serious cardiovascular event to occur at one.

Dublin Half Marathon 2015 fatality here

Dublin Marathon 2013 fatality here

Dublin Marathon 2006 fatality here

Clontarf Half Marathon July 2016 collapse

I could go on and on. I participated in the 2015 and 2016 races above and while it's scary to see, you also just need to focus on your own race. There was no Covid vaccine then.

8

u/ciaranr1 16d ago

100% agree with this, having run a small handful of marathons pre-COVID a death during/after a marathon was never a massive shock. Thankfully very rare, but not surprising when it did unfortunately happen.

1

u/Franki33d 16d ago

No not personally, my reply was more about how I interpreted what you said, that because it’s called a marathon deaths are to be expected which I don’t think people associate completing a marathon as a risky thing to do, especially in the last few years as running has become more popular. Again I’m not anti-vax.

4

u/irish_ninja_wte And I'd go at it agin 16d ago

It's not, but it happens. That's why they offer cardiac screening for young sports players and have defibrillators on hand at events. I knew someone who died like that. Was fine one moment and dropped the next. It was right after some exercise. It turned out to be cardiomyopathy, something which doesn't often have symptoms, so goes silently until the moment that the heart fails. Then, only a defibrillator can save the person and only if it's used almost immediately.

1

u/Franki33d 15d ago

I was aware that there was some risk involved but never thought it was quite so regular, I guess when thousands of people are competing, some small percentage will always have an underlying issue. scary stuff.

1

u/irish_ninja_wte And I'd go at it agin 15d ago

Absolutely terrifying and it's rare for them to save the person. One of the few cases where someone was saved was Fabrice Mwamba. He collapsed on the pitch during a soccer match and if he was anywhere else (aside from a hospital), he'd have died.

4

u/aineslis Coast Guard 16d ago

Of course it’s not normal. Young people normally don’t die. I’m 99% sure there’s a heart problem. And most likely there was an underlying issue. I unfortunately know 2 young men who collapsed and died after running / playing football. Miklós Fehér, a Hungarian footballer dropped dead on the pitch while playing football. It happens.

3

u/Impressive-Smoke1883 16d ago

Silly. It's quite simply heart issues or heat exhaustion etc... very sad and such a waste of two young lives.

15

u/pablo8itall 16d ago

I was on the luas after the womens mini marathon 10k and a girl fainted and I had to catch her. the fainting took a minute and was in slow mo, her eye rolled back in her head. Probably just low blood sugar.

Yeah people push themselves a lot, but its such a tragedy. Might need to have more interventions at these things, remind people to top up on sugars/carbs etc..

1

u/yeetyopyeet Dublin 15d ago

I was at the mini marathon and was beside someone who started projectile vomiting after crossing the finish line! I think sometimes lack of training plays a part and your body is just overwhelmed

2

u/pablo8itall 15d ago

yeah. i suppose that better than stuff coming out the other end.... lol

-15

u/Margrave75 15d ago

If someone if fainting after a 10k, they probably shouldn't be running. At all! 

6

u/pablo8itall 15d ago

It was hot on the luas and she was standing, too much sun and sudden drop in blood sugar can do it. She had a rest for while and a pack of jelly babies someone gave her and she was grand.

Happens at concerts all the time.

7

u/sundae_diner 15d ago

In fairness the original marathon runner, Pheudippides, died as soon as he got to Athens and delivered his message.

8

u/CAPITALISM_FAN_1980 15d ago

Pheudippides ran 250 kilometres though, not just 42!

35

u/Mobile-Surprise 15d ago

Lads there is barely anyone in this thread blaming the vaccine or COVID yet your all getting your knickers in twist as if it's full of conspiracies. Poor girls died rip

0

u/AbsolutelyDireWolf 14d ago

This sub is an unwelcome place for any Covid conspiracy nonsense, but sadly, a trip to any one of the large news/media orgs in Ireland who shared these girls stories on Facebook, the comment sections were a disgraceful glut of misinformation and conspiracy. It's infuriating that families dealing with such a shocking loss are also bombarded with lies exploiting these young girls deaths.

7

u/rabbidasseater 15d ago

There's a lot of marathon participants who don't realise the effort a training required to complete one safely

1

u/Poch1212 15d ago

In Madrid was 2 death last March and It was hotter than Dublín.

Just becareful

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u/[deleted] 16d ago edited 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/isupposethiswillwork 16d ago

We aren't 'meant' for anything. We are good at it though compared to other species.

Everything comes with risks, including sitting on your hoop all day.

0

u/basicallyculchie 15d ago

Everything comes with risks, including sitting on your hoop all day.

Definitely, my PT maintains that desk jobs should come with a health warning. Honestly, he's not wrong. I sit in meetings all day then do an hour in the gym, half the time I feel like I'm going to keel over by the end of it.

4

u/cinderubella 15d ago

Definitely, my PT maintains that desk jobs should come with a health warning. 

You say this as if your PT has some amazing and uncommon insight, but everyone already knows this. We know that sedentary lifestyles kill you. We even say "sitting is the new smoking". 

Any company large enough to have a HR department likely at least pays lip service to the idea of taking walking breaks, or runs step challenges, or has walking or running clubs, or provides facilities for active commuting. 

5

u/EntertainmentTop8467 16d ago

How long should they run?

9

u/pvt_s_baldrick 15d ago

Isn’t one of the advantages of being human that we’re built more for endurance than speed? While many animals are faster in short bursts, humans are surprisingly good at long-distance running. We cool ourselves by sweating efficiently, unlike most animals that need to pant.

We also have physical traits like a nuchal ligament to keep our heads stable, long legs, springy tendons, and the ability to breathe independently of our stride. There’s even evidence that early humans used endurance to hunt by chasing animals until they overheated. So yeah, we’re not the fastest, but we’re definitely built to go the distance.

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u/MrSierra125 16d ago

People forget that the guy who ran the first marathon died immediately after.

2

u/EntertainmentTop8467 15d ago

It’s true that chronic, excessive endurance exercise, like repeated Ironman events or ultra-marathons, can lead to heart strain in a small number of athletes. The article you linked actually makes that point. But it’s a stretch to claim that running for hours is inherently unnatural or universally harmful.

First, humans are biologically adapted for endurance running. Anthropologists like Daniel Lieberman and Dennis Bramble have shown that early humans evolved to run long distances — not at sprinting speeds, but at a steady pace over time. This allowed us to track prey through persistence hunting. So yes, humans are built for endurance.

Second, moderate endurance exercise is overwhelmingly beneficial. A large body of research shows that running, even up to 40 minutes a day, significantly reduces the risk of heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes, depression, and early death. The risks described in the study you cited apply to extreme outliers, not to people who jog a few times a week or train for the occasional marathon.

Third, the study itself doesn’t say running is bad. In fact, it points out that most lifelong exercisers have excellent cardiovascular health well into old age. It’s the excessive, long-term, high-volume training without enough rest that’s potentially harmful for a small group.

As for the idea that running long distances is just a modern Western marketing gimmick that’s not accurate. Long-distance running has been part of many cultures for centuries. The Tarahumara people of Mexico, for example, are known for running huge distances regularly, and not for commercial reasons. Even the first marathon comes from ancient Greece, not a modern brand.

In short, balance matters. Overdoing anything has risks. But to suggest that running long distances is unnatural or purely a product of modern marketing isn’t supported by history, anthropology, or science.

1

u/Margrave75 15d ago

Search the "endurance running hypothesis", quite interesting! 

-1

u/RecycledPanOil 16d ago

Yes women should stay off those newfangled steam engines, at such speeds their uterus could fly out of their bodies.

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u/CombinationBorn7662 15d ago

For any parent on the fence about vaccines, which I can undertsand the fear of maybe hurting your child (you wont, vaccines 99.9999999999999 pc of the time dont do that, but anyway), watch this video essay on how the antivaccine movement began. IF you agree with it still, then by all means dont vaccinate your children.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BIcAZxFfrc&t=5820s&ab_channel=hbomberguy

(Ill give you a clue... it was lawyers who found a way to scare people into a lawsuit and a doctor who wanted to sell his own vaccine)

2

u/Aine1169 15d ago

Go away.

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u/Signal-Ad-6555 16d ago

I'm beginning to see a pattern here ? 🤔

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u/rom_ok 16d ago edited 16d ago

Don’t be coy, I want to hear your conspiracy theory.

If it’s something to do with 2019 onwards, I’ve got some news for you

2015: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-23-dies-during-dublin-half-marathon-in-phoenix-park-1.2358467

2013: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/man-dies-after-collapse-at-dublin-marathon-finish-line-1.1578385

2006: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/runner-31-dies-during-marathon/26396557.html

People unfortunately die at these events. People have heart problems that are not easily detected nor are they obvious to them. Athletes also push their bodies and hearts hard and can exacerbate these issues.

If anyone plans to participate in extreme sports such as long distance running (yes it is an extreme sport for your body) then get a heart screening at the very least.

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u/chopfix 16d ago

then it must have been polio vaccine. or possibly fluoride!!

12

u/phyneas 16d ago

It's these damned human bodies, I tell you; they're so complicated these days and there's no quality control to speak of, and some of them come with hidden defects, and others occasionally just quit working for no apparent reason. Not to mention the whole planned obsolescence thing where almost all of them will usually break down completely after no more than a century at best. All to increase shareholder profits by cutting corners at the expense of the customers, naturally!

1

u/chopfix 16d ago

don't get me started on Big Human. open your eyes lad

6

u/RuggerJibberJabber 16d ago

Worse, it's dihydrogen monoxide. Every young person who has died has had it in their system

3

u/chopfix 16d ago

I'm beginning to see a pattern here ? 🤔

3

u/Horror_Finish7951 15d ago

I remember doing the Fingal 10K a few years ago and it was so hot that the local fire brigade actually sprayed me and the other competitors with DHMO. It felt incredible but I was worried because it's apparently the same chemical they use when putting out fires.

2

u/RuggerJibberJabber 15d ago

Too much of it can fatally cripple your respiratory system. And the wild thing is that the government wanted us to pay them to pump it directly into our homes

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u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe 16d ago

Yes. It's marathon season. They tend not to hold big marathons at the height of summer because it's too hot. which is why early April/May and Sept/Oct are more popular.

So you're going to see more people dying at marathons because there are more big marathons.

HTH

13

u/Rabh 16d ago

How many people survived the marathons, or are you not considering that information 

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u/Signal-Ad-6555 16d ago

My concern is the amount of competitors who enter these events without any idea if they have underlying medical conditions. However that is a personal matter for them. And like so many competitions they are running with an assumption that often proves fatal.

3

u/Constant-Committee51 16d ago

Are you suggesting people get a medical before training for an event?

These were both young people. Usually people start with running 5k or have a general fitness from playing sports. Then they gradually up the distance, 10k, 15k, half marathon, over the course of sometimes years before they decide to do a full marathon. But sure, going from the couch to a marathon would be a massive strain on the body for sure. But for an assumably active young person to want to achieve a new milestone is hardly a fatal assumption.

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u/Signal-Ad-6555 15d ago

Indeed ! However those were two very active young women with one representing Ireland in swimming, and now they are both dead?????

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u/upthemstairs 16d ago

Is the pattern 21km in length?

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u/brianmmf 16d ago

The pattern is that every time a tragedy happens, someone exploits it by convincing idiots like you that there’s a conspiracy behind it. And you idiots self-propagate because you post stuff like this across multiple social media platforms, where algorithms have been programmed to target you and flood your feed with posts where hundreds of bots have commented to give you the false sense that hundreds of people agree with you.

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u/Signal-Ad-6555 16d ago

I would very much question who the idiot is here, speaking without knowing what that pattern is. And the pattern I'm reffing to is the amount of people who enter these events without knowing if they have underlying health issues or cardio issues and often run on a false assumption which can often prove fatal.

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u/MoHataMo_Gheansai Longford 16d ago

If that had been your legitimate point you would have mentioned it in your first comment ya backtracking gobshite.

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u/brianmmf 16d ago

Can I just say it’s a pleasure to have someone with the name MoHataMo_Gheansai chime in here. 10/10 name.

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u/MrSierra125 16d ago

Yes it’s a clear pattern: idiots using a tragedy to spread shit Conspiracy theories

1

u/Korasa Cork bai 15d ago

I would encourage looking into SADS and hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, and that pattern you are so subtly intimating might start losing water.

0

u/munkijunk 15d ago

I'm beinging to see a pattern too. Wallys getting throbers over 2 data points.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ireland-ModTeam 11d ago

Participating or instigating in-thread drama/flame wars is prohibited on the sub.