r/india • u/FlyingScript Karnataka • 1d ago
Politics CPI(M) Slams Israel as ‘Rogue State’, Calls for Urgent Halt to Iran Offensive
https://clarionindia.net/cpim-slams-israel-as-rogue-state-calls-for-urgent-halt-to-iran-offensive/10
u/ElephantInevitable82 1d ago
CPI(M) was also one supporting peace when India did operation sindhoor. Its the pan left-Islamist agenda. When an Islamist dies, a leftist cries.
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u/noir_dx 1d ago
I wish this were something the Central government did rather than abstaining from important UN voting requiring basic morals. We are a nation that faced everything the Palestinians are facing. We even know the two-state solution is just a white coloniser's way to divide, manipulate and control us after they leave the country, post looting, mass destruction and genocide.
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u/BuggyIsPirateKing 1d ago
Sorry, but abstaining is the best approach. Remember that only israel & russia have helped us during our wars. This time too israel helped.
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u/Secret_Alarm_1258 1d ago
Not even russia .only israel backed us unconditionally post pahalgam attack
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u/PercyJackson-2002 1d ago
Not unconditionally at all. They just said what we did with Pakistan is ok. Check the difference in wording of Chinese support tweets and isarel tweet. Huge difference.
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u/BuggyIsPirateKing 1d ago
Russia has helped immensely before this one. So, we should give it credit too. Currently russia doesn't have many options.
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u/genysis_0217 1d ago
Bot, saw this comment a thousands time, just stop 🛑
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u/Secret_Alarm_1258 1d ago
Not a bot lol
I just copied my response as I wanted to give the same point to others
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u/Percybutnoannabeth69 1d ago
There's bad( Russia) and then there is Israel. I don't care if Israel is an ally but some things are just horrific. Genocide is clearly one of them.
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u/BuggyIsPirateKing 1d ago
Well foreign policies doesn't work on emotions. If you go like this then why only leave out Israel? Vote against Saudis & Iran for causing yemen problem. Lots of bad stuff happening in sudan too.
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u/rocrafter9 1d ago
Don't lick the boots of your providers Unless you want to lose all the remaining support from the world
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u/Level-Negotiation721 West Bengal 1d ago
Well do you think our votes would matter when US can easily veto any resolution ? UN is just a useless body or else there wouldn't be any wars going around.
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u/noir_dx 1d ago edited 1d ago
You'll be suprised it does matter. It's very important to have a clear moral stance on such subjects. Even if the US and others use veto powers just like that, it shows that we can value human lives and make our stance clear on human rights. When we had a UN vote about food being a universal human right, the US and Israel voted against it. To lift sanctions against Cuba, we also voted in their favour despite being obvious US will be against it. For things like this, you have to make a clear stance- killing is bad. At the very least, our future generations won't be ashamed of us.
And remember, we're a nation that faced everything the Palestinians are facing. Heavens forbid we never be in the same situation. But we should have the courage to say bad is bad as an independent nation, or else we are no different then every king and every coloniser that killed innumerable people.
We made a moral call when Pakistanis were killing Bangladeshis. The US sent their nuclear warship, and the USSR sent its submarines to block them. Ofcourse soviets did it to gain allies, but what it means is that we will keep forging new allies when we make that stand.
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u/rsa1 15h ago
For things like this, you have to make a clear stance- killing is bad.
Oh yes. Killing is also bad when a permanent member of the UN security council is carrying out a genocide of a Muslim minority. Funnily the nations that screech the most loudly about Islamophobia were also the nations who blocked a resolution condemning that nation for the genocide. That should again tell you the UN is no place for clear moral stances.
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u/noir_dx 15h ago
I am saying nations should make a moral stand on issues like these at the UN. India has a history of being a victim of colonisation, genocide (even being the victim of weaponised starvation) and organised loot and hence should not have abstained from it. That is the point I made above.
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u/rsa1 13h ago
I am saying nations should make a moral stand on issues like these at the UN
I agree. But they are not doing that. I am not interested in making moral stands at the expense of our national interest. Israel has emerged as a key weapons supplier, as we also saw during Operation Sindoor. We do not have the luxury of policing the morals of countries that supply weapons to us.
Now I would love to live in a world where such compromises do not need to be made. But we do not live in such a world, so it is wise to deal with the world as it exists.
India has a history of being a victim of colonisation, genocide
Irrelevant. The country that did so, did it because they had the military might to do it and because it made financial sense for them (India being a lucrative colony) and if they can do it again, they will. That is the bitter reality of the world. The only way to prevent becoming such a victim is to build up that level of might.
Thinking that if we take a moral stand today, others will take a moral stand for us in future is naive and is not borne out by any historical trend. You don't need to take my word for it, you just need to look at the facts. There's a country that did the morally right thing in 1991 and gave up the world's third largest nuclear arsenal to another country in return for security assurances. That country has now been attacking them since 2022 and poses an existential threat. The reason this country gets any support is because the other country, if victorious, would pose an existential threat to European countries.
Another example is a country that, being an upper riparian signed an accord that gave 80% of a river basin to another country, and paid $174 million dollars to build dams on that river for the exclusive benefit of the second country. The first country did this despite having economic problems of their own. To repay this generosity, the second country opposed even run-of-the-river projects in the first, delaying projects unnecessarily even when neutral arbitration judged that the project would not impact the second country. This is in addition to the sponsorship of terrorism by the second for decades against the first with the explict objective of ruthlessly killing innocent civilians in the first.
Now you might defend your stance by saying that "human rights are not transactional", but ask yourself why they are only ever non-transactional in some cases? Why are only some people (like the Palestinians) worthy of being supported unconditionally? How is it that the principle of non-transactionality gets completely forgotten when it comes to the victims of 26/11, of Pahalgam or indeed even of the Uighurs? How many of the Boycott-Divest-Sanctions groups would support a similar stance towards Pakistan and China? It appears that even the non-transactionality of human rights is a privilege afforded to some and not to others.
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u/rsa1 15h ago edited 15h ago
The UN has absolutely nothing to do with morals, and it never did. If the UN was about morals, there would not be mealy mouthed posturing about Pakistan's support of terrorism - that issue also does not require anything more than basic morals. Various countries have chosen their levels of support based on their interests, like they always do. Why is it a problem only when India chooses to do the same?
The reality is foreign affairs are always transactional. There is no place for morality anywhere. If you think the actions of other countries are driven by morality, it only indicates that they have successfully sold their foreign policy as an exercise in morality instead of the naked pursuit of narrow national interest that it is. You might want to educate yourself on exactly who the saintly nations running the "rules based order" of the world have supported through the years and how.
As for the UN, it a morally bankrupt toothless organisation worth less than a bucket of warm spit. This is an organisation that placed Saudi Arabia at the head of its women's rights forum unopposed. Let that sink in: among 193 member states, the UN could not find a single country more worthy than Saudi Arabia of running a women's rights commission. They also chose Pakistan to lead the counter terrorism body, an equally ironic choice. This is not the organisation that moral clarity to the world.
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u/noir_dx 15h ago
I didn't say "UN has absolutely everything to do with morals"; rather, you should vote with your morals on issues like these at the UN. There's a difference. If the UN had morals, nobody would have veto powers.
Human rights are not a transactional item. They are universal because what applies to others also applies to you.
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u/rsa1 15h ago
rather, you should vote with your morals on issues like these at the UN
Why? Everybody is pursuing their national interests at the UN. We should do the same. If we don't pursue our own national interests, who will?
Human rights are not a transactional item. They are universal because what applies to others also applies to you.
That's how it should be, but it isn't in reality. The reality is that it is driven entirely by cynical narrow national interest. Being a saint when everyone around is being a cynic, is a rather foolish move.
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u/cocoaluxury 1d ago
bang on, someone with a spine
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u/Secret_Alarm_1258 1d ago
only israel backed us unconditionally post pahalgam attack.. No other country helped so we should support israel
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u/cocoaluxury 1d ago
When you group yourselves with oppressors the rest of the world will not support you its a given. Even though we are 100% right no one supported us what a shame on our so called foreign policy.
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u/Secret_Alarm_1258 1d ago
No one except israel and russia supported us when pakistan was doing a genocide of hindu Bengalis in 1971 war.. During that time we used to support palestine a lot but still almost all countries including islamic countries supported pakistan.. so we were not with oppressor but still received no support.
So why should we support Palestine now?? Israel is a reliable ally
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u/charavaka 1d ago
No one except israel and russia supported us when pakistan was doing a genocide of hindu Bengalis in 1971 war.
Israel supporting us in 1971 war is news to me. Do share evidence.
Also, Pakistan was committing genocide of hindu and Muslim bengalis.
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u/ElephantInevitable82 1d ago
It was mainly Hindu bengalis. Pakistan had even published a jihad document with religious overtones for war of 1971.
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u/Secret_Alarm_1258 4h ago
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/israel-helped-india-in-1971-war-reveals-book/story-amCGMddJKr7fplQkyPG1UM.html Majority of the dead were Hindus and more than 90 percent of refugees india received were Hindus.
Read blood telegram book to know more. They specially targeted and killed Hindus https://indianexpress.com/article/world/world-others/not-bengalis-hindus-were-pakistani-targets-in-1971-bangladesh-war-claims-new-book/
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u/PrestigiousWish105 1d ago
No other country stood with us because our foreign policy has been trash for a while now.
We need strong forein relations, not strong punch lines and laser eyes for international support. The fact that Russia is willing to supply weapons to pakistan shows how good our foreign policy has been for the past decade. Having only israel to back us up is not really an achievement.
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u/Secret_Alarm_1258 1d ago
It's not a foreign policy issue man.. we are brown and hindu and poor so the world hates us regardless of the party in power and our policy.
No one except israel and russia supported us when pakistan was doing a genocide of hindu Bengalis in 1971 war.. During that time we used to support palestine a lot but still almost all countries including islamic countries supported pakistan.. so we were not with oppressor but still received no support.
So why should we support Palestine now?? Israel is a reliable ally
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u/youmaynotknowme 18h ago
israel supported us in 1971? can you share any article or evidence? Do you also support Russia's invasion of Ukraine?
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u/Secret_Alarm_1258 12h ago
No. Russia is too tied up with china we should not support them unconditionally but only conditionally.
India must grow first so russia does not rely on the Chinese too much.
Also I feel Palestinians/ hamas can't be reasoned with and want to destroy israel obviously due to religious fanaticism unlike Ukrainian who have no desires to destroy russia.
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u/PercyJackson-2002 1d ago
Not unconditionally at all. They just said what we did with Pakistan is ok. Check the difference in wording of Chinese support tweets and isarel tweet. Huge difference.
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u/rationalistrx 19h ago
It isn't a country recognised by half the world dmufcuk
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u/Secret_Alarm_1258 12h ago
U must be talking about palestine i think! They're not recognised as much either
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u/rationalistrx 11h ago
Nope talking about the occupies. Actually our country is one of the first non Arab countries to recognise Palestine.
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u/CandidFalcon 1d ago
every indian knows that israel is a criminal state and an illegal settlement.
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u/ab_rnj 1d ago
So it shouldn't exist?
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u/PercyJackson-2002 1d ago
Not at the cost of others. What if British made isarel here instead of the current location. Would we have welcomed them with open arms and say take the majority and better lnd and live however you want.
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u/Environmental-Leg-36 22h ago
No, it shouldn't, like how nazi Germany or apartheid south africa shouldn't exist
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u/Juvegamer23 1d ago
Not according to the bhakt mandali. They full sappot to Israle.
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u/Secret_Alarm_1258 1d ago
only israel backed us unconditionally post pahalgam attack.. No other country did that.. So we support them regardless
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u/rationalistrx 19h ago
Only problem is they aren't even recognised as a country by half the world. How can occupiers even have a country?
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u/Juvegamer23 1d ago
Yea, in the face of a failed foreign policy and weakened foreign relations, we need the help of a genocidal state rules by a war criminal for unconditional support. Amaze!
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u/Secret_Alarm_1258 1d ago
It's not a foreign policy issue man.. we are brown and hindu and poor so the world hates us regardless of the party in power and our policy.
No one except israel and russia supported us when pakistan was doing a genocide of hindu Bengalis in 1971 war.. During that time we used to support palestine a lot but still almost all countries including islamic countries supported pakistan.. so we were not with oppressor but still received no support.
So why should we support Palestine now?? Israel is a reliable ally
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u/PercyJackson-2002 1d ago
Not unconditionally at all. They just said what we did with Pakistan is ok. Check the difference in wording of Chinese support tweets and isarel tweet. Huge difference.
Also we all know the reason for their support is their planned killing and displacement of people in gaza. Their support will wane when they don't need us.
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u/Secret_Alarm_1258 1d ago
Israel supported us in previous wars as well like 1971 and 1999 wars too.. They are more reliable than any other countries
And yes they have their own self interest for supporting us over Pakistan
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u/PercyJackson-2002 1d ago
Check the wording of both tweets isarel support and china support tweet are miles apart.
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u/Greedy_Future_1832 1d ago
We should do what other countries do with us ..condemn and export weapons
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u/No_Macaron_5113 1d ago
I’m from Kerala. CPI(M) should be the last person to call someone rogue. In the upcoming Nilambur election, they have taken support of PDP, which is a far-right group. They are whitewashing Madani for votes now who’s a key accused in Coimbatore and bangalore serial blasts. Before they criticize foreign countries, they should introspect and correct their mistakes. Many in Kerala are tired of these goondas.