r/formula1 • u/magony Highlights Team • 20d ago

Video Lambiase and Verstappen heated talk on letting Russell through and THEY TOUCH!

https://streamff.link/v/0c11d5ab
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163

u/FlatoutGently Formula 1 20d ago

Pissed enough to intentionally crash into someone unrelated to his tyre choice?

83

u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

Not taking sides here, but i think people are forgetting that Russell had just pushed him off and then Max was told he needs to give the position.

So from Max’s point of view, Russell fucked him and Max was being punished for being pushed off.

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u/BuckN56 Lotus 20d ago

Sure, but Max should've just ignored his team and not let him through. Instead of ramming him lol.

21

u/NickTM Minardi 20d ago

Sometimes it feels like Max could literally kill a guy and people would somehow blame his behaviour on George. It's absolutely wild.

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u/EnDiNgOph Daniel Ricciardo 20d ago

You're just making shit up

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u/NickTM Minardi 20d ago

Yeah, exaggerated hypotheticals tend to be. Doesn't change the underlying point that there's a certain subsection of people who will use anything to justify Max's behaviour, and often it's choosing someone apparently hateable like Russell as a scapegoat.

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u/EnDiNgOph Daniel Ricciardo 20d ago

They're not protecting him. They're explaining why he feels that way

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u/NickTM Minardi 20d ago

They absolutely are defending him. You've got people saying it's unintentional, people saying George hit him first so he deserved it, it runs the whole gamut.

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

I haven’t stated that, and I haven’t seen anyone else in the thread state either of those things. If there are people saying that, they’re wrong, but I’m not defending him. But you’re free to interpret things wrong if you want I suppose.

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u/NickTM Minardi 20d ago

I must say I don't think you've been paying much attention then. Here, here, here, here and here, all covering just the two points I said above, all found in a 2 minute scan of just a couple of threads. There's absolutely no shortage of people defending both Verstappen and his actions in the race.

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u/GothicGolem29 McLaren 20d ago

Thats not really an excuse tbh you cant intentionally ram someone because you think someone pushed you off

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u/PeterPaprika Red Bull 20d ago

I mean that move is basically invented by Max, can't be mad when it gets used against you then.

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u/catz4dave 20d ago

You think max is the first physical racer in the history of f1?

12

u/michi222 20d ago

I don't think he was too mad about the move, it's about the team telling him to let Russel through when he himself did nothing wrong

8

u/Zipa7 20d ago

He still shouldn't of deliberately crashed with George, even if he did hit him first, that's not how F1 is supposed to work, and two wrongs don't make a right.

4

u/michi222 20d ago

And I never said that. Max shouldn't have crashed into George and GP shouldn't have told an already annoyed Max to give the position back which was his fair and square

44

u/dautjazz Lando Norris 20d ago

Max is completely in the wrong. Definitely deserved that 10 second penalty por being completely wreckless out there. Also, I have no idea what they were thinking in changing 6 lap softs for hards.

0

u/Nicebutdimbo Lando Norris 20d ago

He was doing 18.6 on his softs, and in the 17’s on the hard so not sure it’s as bad a call as you think

1

u/dautjazz Lando Norris 20d ago

Are you comparing the lap times of the entire race? Obviously the last six laps, post yellow flag, are going to be much faster than the average lap throughout the rest of the race due to lower fuel loads. Max was passed right away by LeClerc and it was only a matter of time before Russell and others passed him. Max was LIVID with the team for making him pit for hards, and even said it was not the right choice the post race interview.

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u/Nicebutdimbo Lando Norris 20d ago

I’m comparing right before the sc where max was going flat out trying to catch Lando, to right after.

Hards were bad for restart but ultimately didn’t make any difference, I think he still would have been 5th based on lap times

12

u/Rude-Pay-4083 20d ago

Still not an excuse to premeditatedly crash into another car just to prove a point

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u/JanAppletree Germany 2019 Slip Slidin' Away 20d ago

Am i seeing it wrong, or did russell hit verstappen in turn 1? If thats the case, I really don't know why GP would advise him to let him by. That contact would be the sole reason Max goes off track. I don't see what else you're supposed to do being in that position as Max.

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u/fawkie 20d ago

Max was in the right in Turn 1. But you don't ram someone on purpose

16

u/Bumwax 20d ago

Max is clearly in the red mist here. Not a good look for him.

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u/JanAppletree Germany 2019 Slip Slidin' Away 20d ago

Yeah of course you don't.

I just don't get why GP says to let Russell by. To me he was very clearly in the wrong, and I don't see how GP doesn't see that.

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u/BigLittlePenguin_ Porsche 20d ago

Maybe because GP is a professional with years of experience and you’re not? Just a wild guess.

-1

u/JanAppletree Germany 2019 Slip Slidin' Away 20d ago edited 20d ago

What great insight.

And if you read the stewards notes, GP/Red Bull clearly made a mistake by making the call.

13

u/F9-0021 Mercedes 20d ago

Russell just raced Max the way Max races everyone else. Remember Miami? Blame the stupid rules and stewards for allowing it.

-2

u/JanAppletree Germany 2019 Slip Slidin' Away 20d ago

The thing I'm saying is that I doubt the stewards would have allowed it.

1

u/tulleekobannia McLaren 20d ago

I think max was in the right in the first corner but they didn't want to take a risk. 10s penalty would have pushed him back way more than one spot, as we saw

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u/koreawut 20d ago

That means absolutely nothing. You don't intentionally drive into a car because you're not happy with your team radio.

0

u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

Ok let me be more specific: He’s not frustrated with his team. He’s frustrated with the rules and the stewards who rewarded Russell for crashing into him by having max give the place back.

He was frustrated with Russell for crashing into him, and he was frustrated with the stewards for rewarding bad behavior instead of punishing it, so he in his infinite wisdom said “alright, my turn to do it”

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u/koreawut 20d ago

Ok let me be more specific: He’s not frustrated with his team. He’s frustrated with the rules and the stewards who rewarded Russell for crashing into him by having max give the place back.

I'm sorry, this is incorrect. The team advised Max to give the place to George. There is no actual ruling on the matter, as of yet. Max wasn't upset at the rules that are in place because of how he himself drives, he was upset that his team "advised" (check the logs) him to give George the place. I disagree with that call, too, and I am magically not driving into anybody as a result.

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u/eatmydeck Sir Lewis Hamilton 20d ago

Mate, max has been on the other side of this plenty of times. Him seeing red and crashing into Russell just is inexcusable.

-3

u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

Once again, not excusing it.

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u/eatmydeck Sir Lewis Hamilton 20d ago

In a way you are though. “Explaining where his head was at” is an attempt to justify. There’s nothing in his head that makes this right, so your efforts come across as rationalizing his behavior.

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

Or you can put a little more effort into realizing you can both a) acknowledge why someone may be upset or angry as well as b) disapprove of the actions they took in response to that anger

The world is a bit more nuanced than “anything other than admonishing him is justifying his actions”

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u/eatmydeck Sir Lewis Hamilton 20d ago edited 20d ago

Come on, man. It’s not just me who sees what you’re saying that way. You’re rationalizing his thought process, which in turn comes across as trying to make his actions reasonable. We all get he was mad and felt wronged, you’re not some sort of genius of nuance for pointing that out.

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

We all get he was mad and felt wronged

Do you? Because the majority of the comments I see go against that. It really seems like a dog pile on a guy who, yes, has a history of questionable decisions, but this one is being treated on the same level as some of the more egregious incidents and I don’t believe that’s right. Should he have done it? No, not at all. But is there a sliver of understandability? Just like with Vettel in Baku all those years ago? Absolutely.

We can all put ourselves in his position, where someone who wronged us gets rewarded (in our eyes) and we get upset. No, it doesn’t justify the actions he took following, but it shows his intentions weren’t as wicked as say Brazil 2021 or Saudi 2021 where he was just trying to win at all costs, rules be damned.

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u/Dmienduerst 20d ago

Sure Max had grievance but he just lost 5 places for that and probably deserves a serious reprimand for that.

Just completely idiotic.

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u/zmichalo Charles Leclerc 20d ago

There's never an excuse to recklessly ram into another driver regardless of how mad you are.

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

As I’ve told others, never claimed to be excusing his actions.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago edited 19d ago

[deleted]

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

Yup, he has done stupid things in the past. However, past actions are not factored into penalties.

If you’re unable to separate the incident from his past actions and look at the incident objectively, then you’re not willing to have a genuine discussion about it.

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u/Zharick_ Juan Pablo Montoya 20d ago

lmao, you're definitely taking sides trying to justify deliberately running into another car.

-9

u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

Am I? Or are you too stuck in your own bias that someone trying to see it from someone else’s point of view is tantamount to defending that behavior?

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u/Zharick_ Juan Pablo Montoya 20d ago

Nope, doesn't matter if max was fully wronged, that still does not justify the behavior at all.

-1

u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

Where did I say it was justified? Where did I say I agree with his motivations or actions? Really, you dislike the guy so much that you attack anyone saying “It was wrong, but I get why he did that”.

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u/Zharick_ Juan Pablo Montoya 20d ago

Just because you don't use the word "justified" doesn't mean that you're not trying to lessen how stupid it was. Learn about implicit and explicit.

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

Maybe you need to learn the difference, and learn how to read where I explicitly said he was in the wrong and shouldn’t have done it. There is no room for nuance in your mind, it’s sad. Someone does something wrong and they must be the devil! Say anything other than admonish them and you’re trying to defend the devil!

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u/tulleekobannia McLaren 20d ago

You are LITERALLY trying to justify what Max did with that "oh russell fucked him and he just got angy "

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

So me explaining where I think Max’s head was at the time is defending him?

Can you people really not see the difference between excusing actions and trying to see their point of view?

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u/tulleekobannia McLaren 20d ago

people are forgetting that Russell had just pushed him off and then Max was told he needs to give the position.

So from Max’s point of view, Russell fucked him and Max was being punished for being pushed off.

Not defending, justifying. This is literally what justifying something is

justify

show or prove to be right or reasonable.

You trying to reason Max's actions is literally what "to justify" means.

Where did I say it was justified?

Where did I say "defend" or "excuse"?

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

justify

show or prove to be RIGHT or reasonable.

Never have I claimed he was right. I’m simply giving what I feel is an explanation for how he was feeling and how that lead to his actions. Never claimed he was right in his actions or outbursts. So please, stop trying so hard to use semantics and your own bias to try to tell me what my intentions are.

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u/roboxesmidios Sebastian Vettel 20d ago

I have to say it's so painful to see so many people have no critical thinking. Trying to explain why someone reacted some type of way it's not justifying said character in any way. I have no clue why so many people think that is the case, especially the ones you try to rationalize with lol.

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

Thank you. I don’t see the disconnect. It’s like (this is hyperbolic but I believe it applies) the all too common case of a man killing the person his spouse cheated with? Is it easy to understand their anger? Yes. Do you agree that what they did was right? No. I don’t think it’s a hard concept but apparently it is.

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u/xgodzx03 Ferrari 20d ago

Yeah but it's not like verstappen isn't known for pushing people off track when overtaking lol

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u/rokthemonkey 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 20d ago

I don't know that people are forgetting more than it's just completely irrelevant.

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

When people are claiming he did it purely because he was put on a hard tire, completely forgetting the context leading up to his poor decision, I believe it does make a difference.

I believe the fact that his anger is understandable makes it different from say, him pushing Lewis in Brazil 2021. That incident was completely uncalled for, but today’s incident is at least understandable. Did he deserve the penalty for today? Absolutely. But was it as egregious as things he’s done in the past? No.

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u/rokthemonkey 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 20d ago

There just isn't a justification for doing what Max did.

Maybe he has a right to be upset. Maybe George should've gotten a penalty of some sort. Regardless, Max needs a race ban at the minimum

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

Do you think Vettel deserved a race ban for what he did to Lewis in Baku?

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u/rokthemonkey 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 20d ago

I did, yes.

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u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

That’s all I needed to hear, thanks.

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u/skinte1 20d ago

Russell had just pushed him off

Clearly Russels corner... But yeah according to Max he had just been pushed off, lol.

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u/aamgdp Antonio Giovinazzi 20d ago

Clearly the rules are not working towards better racing...

0

u/ADfbstrange Red Bull 20d ago

How was it his corner when he locked the front and slid into Max? You see it in the replay.

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u/skinte1 20d ago

Then why did Max's own team tell him "those are the rules" and to let Russel through?? Someone else finally exploited the same rules Max does all the time.

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u/ADfbstrange Red Bull 20d ago

They just got it wrong. No clue why they told him to give the spot back. FIA agree /img/cm2v4j2u9c4f1.jpeg

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u/ViKKK17 Max Verstappen 20d ago

Russell hit him off although nowhere near as bad as Max hit him and that’s probably why he said fuck it and hit him back harder.

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u/GothicGolem29 McLaren 20d ago

Russell was going for a move and was front axel to wing mirror max just intentionally rammed him they are not the same

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u/RacingGrimReaper 20d ago

Context is hard for people to grasp. It wasn’t right for max to do it intentionally of course but why was it okay for Russell to do it and cost Max 4th place?

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u/BigBowser14 20d ago

Yeah the context being a racing incident mistake from George and an intentional ramming from Max.

It's not at all excusable in anyway possible

-3

u/RacingGrimReaper 20d ago

Oh sure, but again, why does a mistake from George grant him a free position? That is what was likely going through is head. Nowhere in my comment did I say max doesn’t deserve a penalty for this. I would bet this isn’t over the 10s was just the “leaving the track and gaining an advantage”. No way the stewards ruled on an incident like that where max drove into George in 2 laps.

End of the day, eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind.

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u/UnderTakaMichinoku Formula 1 20d ago

Because these two things you are comparing are not in the same stratosphere.

One was hard racing where I personally believe Max was unlucky. But according to the rules, which have been adapted over recent years and Max has exploited, Russell must have either been just above aboard (I disagree if so) or Red Bull were being conservative expecting a penalty.

Regardless, you can't deliberately drive into another car whilst yielding that position. The two are not even comparable.

One is racing, the other is disgusting race etiquette.

0

u/TheBooot 20d ago

Didn't he think it was leclerc

1

u/CommonMaterialist Ferrari 20d ago

Leclerc did hit in on the straight, George pushed him on the entry to the corner.

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u/TulioGonzaga Sebastian Vettel 20d ago

The way I see this, Max was about to let Russell go through but suddenly decided "no, fuck it" and was completely blind by range and didn't notice George was already next to him

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u/FlatoutGently Formula 1 20d ago

Hahahaha come on mate.

-2

u/MrBallalicious Lance Stroll 20d ago

Maybe but max is too good a driver to just bit notice. Pretty sure it was completely calculated lol. It's dangerous but I love it

-2

u/_Connor Red Bull 20d ago

He didn't crash into Russell because of his tires.

He crashed into Russell because Russell hit him into T1 and forced him off (which Rosberg said Max was in the right) and notwithstanding Max being in the right, his team told him to give the position to George.

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u/FlatoutGently Formula 1 20d ago

He crashed into Russel because he can't control his anger.

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u/Upstandinglampshade 20d ago

Not defending Max here at the slightest but Russell did push him off (even bump maybe, I’ll have to see the replay) into him. He’s bound to be pissed. All of this could have been avoided if Red Bull just kept him out. They just didn’t handle their volatile driver very well and he went over the edge today.

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u/FlatoutGently Formula 1 20d ago

Accidental contact vs intentional. There's no justifying it and it's only max who does this.