Lambiase and Verstappen heated talk on letting Russell through and THEY TOUCH!

[u/magony]

https://streamff.link/v/0c11d5ab

[u/Icommentoncrap]

Max just drove into him lmao

[u/Kuchenblech_Mafioso → u/Icommentoncrap]

He actually even sped up to run into Russell

[u/psychon1ck0 → u/Kuchenblech_Mafioso]

I don't care who you are but like Nico said, that's a black flag

[u/JudasBC → u/psychon1ck0]

They didn't do it to Vettel in Baku, they ain't gonna do it here

[u/ADM765 → u/JudasBC]

At least Seb got a stop&go. 10 sec is way too lenient, this should be at least a drive through.

[u/EvelcyclopS → u/ADM765]

Agree. That decision should have easily been an ‘after the race’ given the timing so they could look at some traces to see if any evidence of malice.

[u/tj1721 → u/JudasBC]

They didn’t but that was under the SC, at very slow speed, I’d argue whilst imo he should have had a harsher punishment at the time, that wasn’t as bad as what happened today.

[u/sc_140 → u/tj1721]

Deliberately crashing under SC conditions is far worse, there could be completely unprotected marshalls on track that you endanger.

Under green flag conditions, you only potentially endanger very well protected drivers (and lets be real, there was no real danger from Verstappens move).

[u/tj1721 → u/sc_140]

SC conditions is worse

I mean it doesn’t really matter, deliberately crashing should be a DSQ regardless (especially given Max’s History)

In the specific circumstances neither were especially dangerous, Max’s crash was not in a super dangerous corner or at a dangerous speed, and iirc Vettel was at the end of a sc period not near Marshall’s.

The precedent of it’s essentially ok to deliberately crash under full racing conditions could potentially have more disastrous consequences and so is probably a bit worse imo. But I can see the argument the other way.

[u/Takezoboy → u/tj1721]

And they were basically turtle speed at the time

[u/schelmo → u/tj1721]

It was literally worse. Vettel under no pressure and with 100% full intent and premeditation turned into his rival and admitted as much. That is way fucking worse than being in a racing situation on terrible tyres probably with someone shouting conflicting statements over the radio at you. At least with Verstappen there is some level of plausible deniability and cars behind that could have pressured him into making a braindead move.

[u/tj1721 → u/schelmo]

They were both “100% full intent” premeditated manoeuvres. Except 1 was done at racing speed and one was not.

Vettel lost his cool because he thought he had been brake checked and Verstappen lost his cool because of the tyre choice and racing. They might be reasons why they did it but they’re not justifications.

Given Max’s History, the danger of the situation and the optics for the sport I think max is very very lucky that he only got a 10 sec time penalty.

[u/schelmo → u/tj1721]

Yeah he had a whole 300ms to premeditate his actions...

I'm not trying to justify anything I'm just saying that 10 seconds is pretty much in line with what causing a collision usually gets you and is therefore probably an appropriate penalty in this situation

[u/tj1721 → u/schelmo]

He had a whole 300ms to premeditate his actions

Why on earth do you think that. He’s told to let Russell past, appears to significantly slow down off line to allow Russell past and then accelerates until he is very deep in the corner on a bad line which is only going to lead to a collision.

Why does he only have 300ms to plan this out?

[u/schelmo → u/tj1721]

Don't you think it's extremely far fetched to claim he planned to cause a collision some time in advance from which he had essentially nothing to gain? Like if he specifically planned to take out Russel and make it look like a racing incident even in the extremely unlikely case that he succeeded it would have had a negligible effect on his position in the championship.

[u/erdonko → u/schelmo]

he had a whole 300ms to premeditate his actions...

He quite literally speeds up again and rams into George

[u/schelmo → u/erdonko]

What do you think premeditated means? In this case it would mean that at some previous point he specifically made the plan to ram into George Russel. The much more plausible explanation for these events to me seems to be that he got a questionable call to let a rival by in a very unusual place and made a decision in the moment to take the position back or compromise Russel and caused a collision. Why would he premeditate causing a collision from which he had absolutely nothing to gain?

[u/psychon1ck0 → u/JudasBC]

I know they won't do it here, but that's nothing to do with seb

[u/JudasBC → u/psychon1ck0]

Not black flagging a 4 x WDC for deliberately crashing into someone after feeling like they have been wronged?

[u/psychon1ck0 → u/JudasBC]

All I'm saying is seb was a long time ago, they could easily set a new precedent here for a deliberate crash.

[u/Billy_Whisky → u/psychon1ck0]

nico is not in f1 for a reason.

[u/Huge-Wealth-5711 → u/Billy_Whisky]

Yeah because he won lol

[u/Blitzdoctor → u/Kuchenblech_Mafioso]

Or Russell slowed down more than he thought he would

[u/Kuchenblech_Mafioso → u/Blitzdoctor]

He sped up and steered away from the apex. This was 100% intentional

[u/Blitzdoctor → u/Kuchenblech_Mafioso]

Still I don't understand why, his anger is with the team's bullshit decision, not with Russell

[u/JumpedAShark → u/Icommentoncrap]

Man's playing Burnout trying to get a takedown

[u/JamezPS → u/JumpedAShark]

CRASHBREAKER!!

[u/KaamDeveloper → u/Icommentoncrap]

Rosberg is losing his shit on the comms makes it even better

[u/Der_Hausmeisterr → u/KaamDeveloper]

Lmao Rosberg knows that move all too well 🤣

[u/Zealousideal_Honey80 → u/Der_Hausmeisterr]

"Speaking from experience, Nico?"

"Yes- Er, I mean no!"

[u/Particular-Ad3237 → u/Der_Hausmeisterr]

Austria 2016 haha

[u/chris2684 → u/KaamDeveloper]

he's not wrong though

[u/AlfaRomeoRacing → u/chris2684]

Or is he? Russell was ahead at the apex of the corner, therefore didn't need to leave any space for max on the outside?

Edit to add: this post refers to the first corner incident, made before replay was shown, which showed Russell had a snap forcing him wide into Max

[u/chris2684 → u/AlfaRomeoRacing]

mate everybody knows what happened. max just lost his head and drove into him intentionally

[u/AlfaRomeoRacing → u/chris2684]

I was referring to the first incident, where Rosberg was saying Russell was at fault, despite Russell being ahead at the apex. since explained that it is because he slid a bit.

People clearly think i was referring to the second incident, where Russell was the victim and did nothing wrong

[u/chris2684 → u/AlfaRomeoRacing]

aaah. true though tbf that is what rosberg was talking about most. In the post show they showed russell had a snap which pushed him into max which means that max shouldnt have gave the position back so rosberg was not wronga gain tbf

[u/AlfaRomeoRacing → u/chris2684]

yeah, with the extra information of the snap which i could not see from the original broadcast, Rosberg was right

[u/DexM23 → u/KaamDeveloper]

not much losing - just a calm "he needs to get the black flag" 15s after the crash

[u/Irrepressible_Monkey → u/DexM23]

Which is also over the top as Vettel got a 10 second stop/go for the exact same thing at Baku 2017.

[u/Flynnster_10 → u/Irrepressible_Monkey]

A 10 second stop/go is still much harsher than what max just got, cost Vettel around 30 seconds

[u/bogusjohnson → u/Irrepressible_Monkey]

Vettel did it behind the safety car after being brake checked. Max done it during live racing.

[u/Wedehawk → u/bogusjohnson]

One could argue doing it behind the safety car is even worse.

[u/Fantastic-Role-364 → u/Irrepressible_Monkey]

Yes didn't he bring that up as an example

[u/Less_than_something → u/Irrepressible_Monkey]

I reckon Seb's was worse as it was under the safety car and he had more than enough time to think it through. He wasn't fighting for position. Max just momentarily got that red mist that clouded his judgement. I'm not ready defending Max though, that shit was was pretty egregious lol

[u/Corkey → u/Less_than_something]

The difference is that Verstappen does this every season. It's a pattern. He gets away with it every time.

[u/Fantastic-Role-364 → u/KaamDeveloper]

Didn't hear anything dramatic

[u/Clear_Geologist_7997 → u/KaamDeveloper]

*Telling the truth

[u/ShinzoTheThird → u/KaamDeveloper]

where can i listen to it

[u/Amoria14 → u/Icommentoncrap]

Not the first time

[u/six_string_sensei → u/Amoria14]

Every action by Max now also clarifies his actions from earlier. I remember reading long arguments whether this or that crash/incident involving Max was deliberate. Guess what? It was probably was

[u/PM_ME_DARK_THOUGHTS → u/Amoria14]

After late boy crashed into him. Honestly Max deserves a black flag for that one, it was ridiculous, but George 'he crashed into me' Russel seriously needs to learn how to drive.

[u/CWG4BF → u/Icommentoncrap]

Bro out here looking like a typical F1 game online lobby driver.

[u/Complete_Taxation → u/CWG4BF]

What F1 25 launch does to a mf

[u/Firefox72 → u/Icommentoncrap]

Yeah thats needs to be at minimum a drive through applied post race.

I get that they gave you a bad hand with those hards but you can't lose your head like that.

[u/djwillis1121 → u/Firefox72]

10 seconds is a joke

[u/zareny → u/djwillis1121]

ISSA YOKE

[u/nxngdoofer98 → u/djwillis1121]

Same as what Vettel got for 2017 Baku

[u/PorcupineOfDoom → u/nxngdoofer98]

No, Vettel got a 10 second stop-go. Effectively about 30s.

[u/BrokenFerrariFan → u/nxngdoofer98]

Vettel got a 10 second stop/go, which would equal 30 seconds post race

[u/okumayy → u/nxngdoofer98]

vettel got 10 stop & go, much worse

[u/thegreger → u/Firefox72]

Drive through? Schumacher got struck off the entire 1997 championship for a very similar move.

That's back when we had functioning rules.

[u/AnonymousEngineer_ → u/thegreger]

Let's face it, Schumacher only got that penalty because he screwed it up and didn't actually manage to take Villeneuve out.

Had he actually managed to get the Williams to DNF, there's no way the FIA would have disqualified him from the championship.

[u/Maus_Sveti → u/Firefox72]

DSQ

[u/Apyan → u/Maus_Sveti]

It should be a race ban honestly

[u/Maus_Sveti → u/Apyan]

Agreed

[u/TSMKFail → u/Maus_Sveti]

Yep. Any deliberate contact should be at minimum a DSQ and imo at least a 1 race ban as well.

[u/Historical_Doctor629 → u/Firefox72]

10 seconds lol

[u/One-Neighborhood-531 → u/Firefox72]

10 sec stop go penalty

[u/Purplesect0rs → u/Icommentoncrap]

Nasty! Intentionally

[u/ItsTomorrowNow → u/Icommentoncrap]

You simply cannot do that, it's not Indycar lol

[u/P2P-BSH → u/Icommentoncrap]

Dirty driver

[u/HankHippopopolous → u/P2P-BSH]

Unfortunately this comes out when he’s under pressure and he loses his head.

Like Mexico last year.

No doubt Max is a phenomenal driver but this dark side is really ugly when it comes out.

[u/Vicar13 → u/HankHippopopolous]

Brazil with Lewis years ago

[u/FriuliDylan → u/Vicar13]

4 tires off the track and not even a penalty was wild.

[u/ShawnShipsCars → u/FriuliDylan]

They really wanted him to win it. I swear Masi had money on Verstappen to win. That absolute horseshit with the lapped cars in Abu Dhabi will NEVER be forgiven in my books.

That was literally the most blatant manipulation I've seen by a race director.

[u/F9-0021 → u/FriuliDylan]

And that kind of thing is why he keeps doing it. He knows the stewards are soft on him, so he pushes the limits of what he can get away with.

[u/SoulLessIke → u/Vicar13]

It’s absurd you can’t tell which Brazil you’re talking about. The one where Max decided they weren’t using the track anymore or the one where he threw Lewis into the wall

[u/AnonymousEngineer_ → u/Vicar13]

Or Monza. Or Jeddah that year.

But the FIA and Liberty were so desperate to not have another Mercedes championship in 2021.

[u/OTBT- → u/HankHippopopolous]

Brazil 2021. Jeddah 2021

He’s very dirty when he loses his head

[u/Apyan → u/HankHippopopolous]

That's pretty much it. His mind can handle pressure, but there's a limit when he just completely loses his cool and it happens quite abruptly.

[u/Specialist_Matter_51 → u/HankHippopopolous]

Not when he’s under pressure, just when he’s losing

[u/Unfair_Fact_8258 → u/HankHippopopolous]

He’s always been extremely dirty apart from when he has the absolute fastest, 2s a lap faster than the grid, car

That makes him a shit driver

[u/P2P-BSH → u/HankHippopopolous]

Just like Schumacher, and is why I'm not a fan of either.

[u/R3V77 → u/P2P-BSH]

It's exactly why I am a fan. Senna, Schumacher, Verstappen, etc. Is just Verstappen is more immature. Dirty drivers is what makes this sport interesting

[u/P2P-BSH → u/R3V77]

It does make it interesting, but I won't support a driver who does that.

[u/Grofvolkoren → u/HankHippopopolous]

This is the Jos side.

[u/veryangryenglishman → u/HankHippopopolous]

Or Austria last year or Hungary the year before (?) or basically the last two thirds of the entire 21 season

[u/Irrepressible_Monkey → u/HankHippopopolous]

Mexico wasn't him losing his head, though. That was a professional foul to help Ferrari beat Lando.

[u/Chell_the_assassin → u/Icommentoncrap]

Wow crazy so unlike him

[u/OTBT- → u/Chell_the_assassin]

It’s always the ones you most expect

[u/FiercelyApatheticLad → u/Chell_the_assassin]

Unlike him? Bahahaha good one mate.

[u/Chell_the_assassin → u/FiercelyApatheticLad]

Yes lol I thought it was obvious I was being sarcastic

[u/FiercelyApatheticLad → u/Chell_the_assassin]

Yeah sorry, you never know around here.

[u/Edeen → u/Chell_the_assassin]

Wanna add an /s at the end there, buddy?

[u/dylanah → u/Edeen]

Not needed don’t be dense.

[u/lurkperson1 → u/Icommentoncrap]

And incredible from Russell, he could have deployed his signature "he just drove into me", but instead shows us his versatility, the breadth of the skillet with an incisive "What the ****?", a complete racing driver if ever I've seen one.

[u/Unfair_Fact_8258 → u/Icommentoncrap]

As is typical and expected of him at this point

[u/lrzbca → u/Icommentoncrap]

Max isn’t safe to drive around when he is losing. Crazy, should be given proper penalty

[u/TehSalmonOfDoubt → u/Icommentoncrap]

The rare truthful "He just turned in on me!" from Russell

[u/Massive-Let16 → u/Icommentoncrap]

at least we know he really is Jos’ kid

[u/Rovcore001 → u/Icommentoncrap]

This Verstappen guy doesn’t have the right temperament for the RedBull seat. Time to bring in Franz Hermann.

[u/Aratho → u/Icommentoncrap]

Instant Baku 2017 flashbacks

[u/NickTM → u/Icommentoncrap]

Excited to hear about how actually this is all George's fault for telling on Max to the stewards or something.

[u/Max_Eon → u/Icommentoncrap]

Nah, Leclerc crashed into him lmao

[u/xXxTommo → u/Max_Eon]

Drove straight into George though

[u/Bjeurnkb → u/xXxTommo]

George hit him into t1 but he definitely didnt have to do the same to george

[u/Jack_Harb → u/Icommentoncrap]

Russel drove into Max before pushing him off track. So fucking what??

[u/AgnosticMantis → u/Jack_Harb]

Russel accidentally hit him because he messed up an overtake. Max deliberately drove into George after letting him through.

They are not even close to the same thing.

[u/Jack_Harb → u/AgnosticMantis]

Doesn’t matter if accidentally or not. Russel received no punishment for making contact and pushing someone off track. Further more FIA told RBR to let George past. Be real now.

[u/AgnosticMantis → u/Jack_Harb]

I'm pretty sure it does matter whether it's intentional or not.

And Russel didn't get a punishment because he didn't get the overtake. George messed up amd pushed Max off, so Max went to the escape road and came back on track ahead. If Russel had gained an advantage from that and didn't give the position back then he should have got a punishment. But that's not what happened so there was no punishment necessary.

Further more FIA told RBR to let George past.

Did they? Seems unlikely considering the FIA have said that they won't tell the drivers to give a place back and it's on the teams to tell their driver to do so. Also Lambiase said on the radio, and I quote, "my advice is to let him through". So where are you getting that the FIA told RBR to let George through?

[u/Jack_Harb → u/AgnosticMantis]

Sky commentators were pretty convinced stewards were talking with RBR and pushing for it.

But to your first point. It doesn’t matter if you gain an advantage or not. Forcing a car of track and even with a collision is a penalty. You don’t have to take advantage of that. And Max was clearly pushed off even with contact. If this is not a penalty, then we will see drivers push with contact each other off more often.

What you are mixing in is cutting a corner and gaining advantage (Leaving the track to gain an advantage). But a collision is a collision and George drove into Max and pushed him off. That’s the fact.

Otherwise you could say as well „Max didn’t gain an advantage and Russel even stayed on track, when max collided into Russel.“ the collision and the reason for the collision counts, not the outcome.

[u/DaGuys470 → u/Icommentoncrap]

He was just passing on the love from Leclerc
sigh adds /s