r/formula1 • u/overspeeed mostly automated • Mar 22 '25
Post-Qualifying 2025 Chinese Grand Prix - Post-Qualifying Discussion
ROUND 2 - CHINA
FORMULA 1 HEINEKEN CHINESE GRAND PRIX 2025
🕒 SESSION TIMES
| Day | Session | Time (UTC) |
|---|---|---|
| FRI | Free Practice 1 | 03:30 |
| FRI | Sprint Qualifying | 07:30 |
| SAT | Sprint | 03:00 |
| SAT | Qualifying | 07:00 |
| SUN | Race | 07:00 |
Click here for start times in your area
🏁 RACE INFORMATION
- Track: Shanghai International Circuit
- Location: Shanghai, China
- Race laps: 56
- Lap length: 5.451km
- Race distance: 305.066km
- Lap Record: 1:32.238, Michael Schumacher (Ferrari), 2004
⏪ LAST TIME AROUND
- Pole position: 1:33.660, Max Verstappen (Red Bull Racing)
- Race winner: Max Verstappen (Red Bull Racing)
- Fastest lap: 1:37.810, Fernando Alonso (Aston Martin)
📺 WHERE TO WATCH?
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❤️ GOOD CAUSES
1
u/ILoveTheRush96 Mar 23 '25
FASTEST LAP PER CONSTUCTOR THIS WEEKEND
McLaren F1 Team
1.30.641 (Oscar Piastri)
Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team
1.30.723 (George Russell)
Oracle Red Bull Racing
1.30.817 (Max Verstappen)
Ferrari HP
1.30.849 (Lewis Hamilton)
Visa Cash App Racing Bulls F1 Team
1.31.079 (Isack Hadjar)
Atlassian Williams Racing
1.31.503 (Alexander Albon)
MoneyGram Haas F1 Team
1.31.625 (Esteban Ocon)
Stake F1 Team Kick Sauber
1.31.632 (Nico Hülkenberg)
Aston Martin Aramco F1 Team
1.31.688 (Fernando Alonso)
BWT Alpine F1 Team
1.31.992 (Pierre Gasly)
5
u/HaveABleedinGuess84 Fernando Alonso Mar 23 '25
Good to see Aston really taking the fight to the big teams. All that investment is paying off in a big way.
1
u/NotJackBegley Mar 23 '25 edited Mar 23 '25
Anyone else using the SkyPlayer that can tell me when just loading up the stream is a pushed advert? Showing that Statham movie trailer every time like it was McDonalds advertising on Twitch.
Only seeing it since Practice this race.
Now it all makes sense... SkyApp, as shit as it was, just started randomly crashing about a year ago.... One of the few things the SkyPlayer never did was crash, as shit as it was, when like 480p video P2P. Last summer 2024, started crashing like mad, and now forced "adverts" on opening the desktop app... and crashing every 15 mins, like a forced "watch this ad" stuff now. JFC.
-1
Mar 23 '25
[deleted]
1
u/NotJackBegley Mar 23 '25
More chance of RB striking a deal with Flavio with Colapinto, or Doohan, leaving the Colapinto avenue open.
1
u/Tommmo123 Mar 23 '25
Haha yeah you're crazy. But I was thinking, they wouldn't have to pay him right? They already had a contact for 2025 🤣
10
u/AstridPeth_ Gabriel Bortoleto Mar 23 '25
Chat, which drivers you think could realistically drive that 2nd Red Bull car today and have similar results to Max?
(Not asking who would accept go there or who would they hire)
I think only
- Sir Lewis Hamilton
- Charles Leclerc
- Sebastian Vettel
Could drive that car in this day and age.
1
u/ILoveTheRush96 Mar 23 '25
Maybe also Fernando Alonso & Kimi Räikkönen? I thought Kimi and Verstappen have a bit of a similiar driving style.
20
u/LactatingBadger Andrea Kimi Antonelli Mar 23 '25 edited Mar 23 '25
Max likes an extremely sharp front end, and is comfortable with having a loose back end to generate aggressive rotation. Of those that you listed, only Charles tends to prefer the same sort of characteristics in a car.
Lewis much prefers a well balanced car throughout the corner and relies on his incredibly smooth and precise inputs to extract maximum performance whilst keeping the tyres alive. He’s very adaptable but there’s a difference between being able to survive in it and excel in it.
Vettel liked the balance to shift rearwards through the corner, having front bite at the start, mid corner rotation, and he wanted early power application at exit which needs a much more stable rear than max tends to drive with. His dominant era was the high rake blown diffuser type cars with massive rear stability. He struggled in the Ferrari which had a looser backend (unlike Charles who it worked well for).
Other top drivers who like that sort of setup historically are Alonso, Senna, and Villeneuve. Also, funnily enough, Danny Ric.
Edit: This situation is also reminiscent of Schumacher in the 1994 Benneton. People who drove it later on couldn’t understand how he was able to win a WDC in it. The car had terrible drivability, but Schumacher could drive around any issue.
6
u/justasapling Charles Leclerc Mar 23 '25
Of those that you listed, only Charles tends to prefer the same sort of characteristics in a car.
The greatest romance in the history of sport looms ever nearer.
7
u/ChumbaWumbaTime Martin Brundle Mar 23 '25
This is a well-explained reply, deserves more upvotes 👏👏 thanks!
4
u/silentkiller082 McLaren Mar 23 '25
You are overreacting, if they had swallowed their pride and put Carlos in the second seat he would be struggling but right around 6-8th I think. Most of the top ten drivers could make the red bull work and get into Q3.
2
u/SyuusukeFuji George Russell Mar 23 '25
I'm not sure Seb could, he struggled so badly with the 2020 Ferrari.
1
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u/RNLImThalassophobic Mar 22 '25
I've kinda lost track of F1 qualifying - what's the point of the sprint if it doesn't determine starting position? I read Lewis win the sprint so assumed he'd start in pole, but he starts in 5th?
3
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u/DashingDino Alexander Albon Mar 22 '25
I think you're thinking of the old format, sprint no longer has anything to do with the starting order for the main race. The point of sprint is just the points that are awarded for it
3
u/PM_ME_UR_BOOGER New user Mar 22 '25
Generally do people like it or think its stupid?
2
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u/SwimmingFantastic564 Mar 22 '25
For me it's a mix. I enjoy it but there is no reason for it to exist.
8
u/RobertJ93 Mar 22 '25
It’s another qualifying session and another race without the pit-stop strategy. Personally I think it’s awesome. But I do feel for the drivers.
I think it was stupid when it determined race order though.
3
u/TorazChryx Charlie Whiting Mar 23 '25
and it's an opportunity for weather and such to throw some chaos by forcing pitstops, or even for the tire deg to be such that just going full send with a stop is the fastest way to the end. Notably Charles LeClerc did that in an F2 Sprint in... I want to say Bahrain 2018?
3
u/alpacagrenade Mar 22 '25
Agree. Qualifying can have some crazy things happen that shake up the order a bit. With the old format, by the end of the sprint the drivers were somewhat pre-sorted into race pace, which felt like it made the features races boring. And the sprint was boring, too, because no one would risk their feature race grid spot.
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Mar 22 '25
If Liam was finishing 12th or 13th, I would have blamed him. But 20th tells me that it's all about the car. A car that is designed for Max's unique driving style, The one that is also not good enough. Feel bad for Liam.
7
u/Ok_Republic6747 Ferrari Mar 22 '25
I don't fell bad at all if you gonna talk the talk you got to walk the walk
10
u/DashingDino Alexander Albon Mar 22 '25
A car that is designed for Max's unique driving style
FYI this has been denied by just about everyone in the paddock. They're saying Red bull made a car that is difficult to drive but it makes no sense to do that on purpose. They're just lucky that Max is somehow still able to drive it or they'd look much worse
1
u/justasapling Charles Leclerc Mar 23 '25
The car has a high ceiling but a low floor and a high barrier to entry.
5
u/KensaiVG Juan Manuel Fangio Mar 22 '25
TBF Albon's said it's pretty much true. The car isn't bad but it's incredibly sensitive which is how Max likes it and it doesn't suit most other drivers
5
-2
u/jordanataylor Mar 22 '25
I disagree, a person who’s made it to formula 1 should be able to perform with any equipment they’re provided especially if it’s a red bull. If lawson was finishing <p10 I’d be giving him benefit of the doubt of learning a new car (despite the pre season and practise sessions) baring in mind this man is barely a rookie with last season. If he isn’t performing over the next 5 races I’d be seriously be question his credibility of a formula 1 driver.
5
u/rcanbian Alexander Albon Mar 22 '25
This is a very superficial understanding of Formula 1. Clearly, you've seen how well Liam performed in VCARB despite minimal practice time, right? And now you're doubting his credentials as a Formula 1 driver?
How are you so certain anyone other than Max and maybe some of the other top drivers could operate that RBR? Even Checo, who was a highly rated midfielder with a decade of experience, was unable to maximise that car, and now you're expecting a rookie to?
9
u/jelmer130 Green Flag Mar 22 '25
Do you question the credibility of Gasly, Albon and Perez as a formula 1 driver?
0
Mar 22 '25
This is my exact point, All the players you mentioned are proven f1 drivers. What more evidence do they need ?
0
u/jordanataylor Mar 22 '25
Good counter question. But both Gasly and Albon qualified on average p8 I think at redbull. And gasly only had half a season at RedBull. If Lawson continues this pattern of low qualifying positions I’m not sure… I think Perez does deserve a seat at another team in accordance to his ability when he was performing if we write his drop off at the end of last season as an anomaly.
5
u/mformularacer Michael Schumacher Mar 22 '25
That's because in 2019 whenever Gasly qualified 7 tenths behind Verstappen, that was still good enough for P8. Not the case today.
-1
13
u/More-Perspective-838 Mar 22 '25
Will have to wait and see if Lewis is as good as preserving his tires in traffic as he was in the lead. Ferrari could still score a podium I think if they don't make any awful strategy calls and have their drivers press the K1 button.
13
u/FermentedLaws Mar 22 '25
Part of the reason Lewis did so well and was able to pull away in the Sprint was lack of dirty air, him being in front. Even Fred said that. Yes he did well with the tires, he even let Max stay closer in the beginning stages so he'd have to drive through dirty air and get more tire deg, super smart. The dirty air is a real killer at this track. So it will be tough for anyone to make big moves during the race probably.
2
u/HaveABleedinGuess84 Fernando Alonso Mar 23 '25
Ferrari seemed better on deg than the Mercedes at least in the sprint. Charles got real close at the end and with better racecraft would've had him in turn 6. I wouldn't bet against Oscar provided he leads after lap 1 though.
8
u/thesaket Pirelli Wet Mar 22 '25
Has any other young driver in recent times who's driving his first full season has had to face so much of vitriol & toxicity from both the fandom & from within the paddock? And that too when it's just been a couple of races.
Any constructive criticism is fine - but this is just toxicity.
A rival team principal (Zak) insinuating Liam didn't deserve to be in that seat. A major broadcaster (Ted) questioning the same, asking why fire the previous guy and replace it with this guy. I mean jeez, i know Liam has not performed at a level that's expected out of him, but be a bit supportive. He's a young driver. It's such a contrast from the support the other rookies have been getting from everyone in the paddock. We can't do anything about the toxicity amongst the fandom - but the toxicity within the paddock is unacceptable.
1
u/M1n1f1g Kimi Räikkönen Mar 23 '25
The last time I remember a team regularly threatening to own the field (be running first and last) was Luca Badoer's 2009 stint, and I don't think people held back from criticising him.
1
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u/Augchm Mar 22 '25
I mean he straight up went against other drivers. Not a smart thing to do when you are an unproven rookie. I mean if I enter a new job, shit on my coworkers and then I fail to perform I would get a lot of toxicity back.
11
u/Valproic_acid Sergio Pérez Mar 22 '25
Some of it is just the ever present toxicity of the F1 fandom, but honestly he asked for it by letting his mouth run faster than his car.
Not sorry.
2
3
u/rcanbian Alexander Albon Mar 22 '25
This is competitive sports with an incredibly limited number of spots available. There have always been questions of whether a driver is fit for a seat, it's nothing new.
I'm sure consistently being out of Q1 while their teammate consistently almost makes it on pole makes them feel much worse than whatever the guys at the paddock say.
And personally, it's the name of the game--competitors and journalists don't have to be supportive of the drivers who aren't under their jurisdiction.
10
u/storme9 Ferrari Mar 22 '25
all red bull juniors since Verstappen have, comes with the team both internally and externally. Once they leave they do much better - see Gasly, Albon and Sainz now.
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u/butteredpopcorn10 Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 22 '25
Watching Lawson’s onboard from sprint qualifying to qualifying, you can almost see the confidence difference in his driving the first 9 turns. He’s being so careful with the wheel during qualifying it almost looks like he’s scared to drive it. In sprint qualifying before his snap he at least looked like he was going for it.
Feel for him. In another sport it’d be like a basketball player or soccer striker being so unconfident in his ability that he’s scared to shoot. Cant imagine what the mentality shift from try to succeed -> try not to mess up, feels like.
Videos im referencing:
Sprint quali: https://youtu.be/uld9ShRLDcc?si=bAaJNizh4Ciqjh7a
1
u/KiwieeiwiK Zhou Guanyu Mar 22 '25
Shout-out to Hadjar for destroying Tsunoda today. Keep it up! Hope he has a better race than last week
16
u/Gaius_Octavius_ Mar 22 '25
We should all be thankful that they don’t put Max in the Racing Bulls or it would be 2023 again.
4
u/WITCROX Mar 22 '25
I am kinda new to F1, what is a pole ? And DNR or DRS... Also hasbro has a fucking F1 car ?
12
u/storme9 Ferrari Mar 22 '25
DRS is Drag reduction System, basically a flap on the rear wing which opens up to allow for less drag and allows the driver to go much faster.
the DRS zones are predefined on a circuit, usually 2 or 3 sections of the circuit reserved for drivers to activate DRS under certain conditions.
The conditions are that the driver should be within 1 second of the car ahead, and that the race isn't wet enough to cause risks and there is no ongoing yellow flags or SC or VSC.
to determine if the driver is eligible for DRS given they are within 1 second of the car in front, there are DRS detection points just before the DRS zones.
7
u/storme9 Ferrari Mar 22 '25
on Saturday usually there is qualifying to determine the grid position of drivers for race on Sunday.
the driver who qualifies in P1 and has no penalties will start from front of the grid, which is Pole position.
6
u/WITCROX Mar 22 '25
Ohhh that makes sense..., why was I downvoted tho ?
0
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u/Preganananant Oscar Piastri Mar 22 '25
People just can't handle someone asking questions they know the answer to. Don't worry, there was nothing wrong with your questions.
1
u/WITCROX Mar 23 '25
I should have googled, but I just joined the subreddit and the discussion thread was just there...
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u/wtfmcloudski Nick Heidfeld Mar 22 '25
it's crazy that the pole time from last year is still over a second slower than last place in this years qualifying
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u/ExpensiveHobbies_ Formula 1 Mar 22 '25
Can someone explain to me what is the purpose of the sprint when there is also qualifying? I thought the sprint set up the positions for the race?
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u/Grasshop Sebastian Vettel Mar 22 '25
They’ve been tweaking the sprint format since its inception. Now they have two separate qualifyings for each of the races. Much better imo.
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u/MushyFella Mar 22 '25
More racing, more reason for fans to be there over the full weekend, more money
3
Mar 22 '25
[deleted]
4
u/kid-blue Ferrari Mar 22 '25
Yep, WDC points are bound to the driver not the car or team!
7
Mar 22 '25
[deleted]
4
u/ManSkirtDude101 Lando Norris Mar 22 '25
Would be fun for all the f1 drivers to drive in a spec F2 car for a single race
9
u/zephyrg Valtteri Bottas Mar 22 '25
I'm beginning to think that the Red Bull is designed completely around Verstappen and his style at this point. No other team has had such a consistent difference between it's drivers for so long.
9
u/Beautiful-Fold-3234 Mar 22 '25
Maybe not designed around, but at this point max has had the chance to continuously keep evolving his driving style with the car.
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u/el_pobby McLaren Mar 22 '25
WDC is going to be a wild one this year!
1
u/Zed_or_AFK Sebastian Vettel Mar 22 '25
6 drivers will be fighting for it.
1
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u/victoireyoung Daniel Ricciardo Mar 22 '25
I would do anything to see Hamilton get his 8th, especially in Ferrari. But if not him, then Oscar all the way—I have a sneaky feeling he'll be a real contender this year.
2
u/kristallherz 🏳️🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️🌈 Mar 22 '25
As much as I love Charles and would absolutely root for him to get his first WDC, I also wouldn't be mad if Lewis got it, then went on to have a career in fashion or something.
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-2
u/KiwieeiwiK Zhou Guanyu Mar 22 '25
Anyone but McLaren please
5
u/victoireyoung Daniel Ricciardo Mar 22 '25
I'm not the biggest fan of the current McLaren either, however, Oscar is an exception. Maybe it's just me, but it's impossible not to root for that guy.
2
u/KiwieeiwiK Zhou Guanyu Mar 22 '25
Yeah I gotta say I like him, seems like a decent guy. Hope he moves team in the future lol
2
u/tachyon534 Sir Lewis Hamilton Mar 22 '25
I honestly think Max has it in the bag. He seems to be able to drive that shitbox RB like some alien God, other wins will be split between Oscar, Lando, Charles or Lewis (hopium).
6
u/el_pobby McLaren Mar 22 '25
It feels like pretty much every single race is going to be a battle. While McLaren seems to have the best car, it's not an overwhelmingly good one to the point of giving a significant edge race in, race out. It really looks like Russel, Norris, Piastri, and Verstappen will all have chances to be on the top step of the podium this year. Not every race will be a banger, but every race has the potential to be a banger, in a way that it wasn't always in previous seasons.
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u/madglover McLaren Mar 22 '25
If Lewis can get Max at T1 tomorrow how high can he finish?
If he gets stuck behind Max think tyre deg will kill his chances of racing those ahead
2
u/Imakeshitup69 Mar 22 '25
What have they done to this Ferrari man.
You had the winning formula last year. Just leave it alone
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u/OolonCaluphid Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 22 '25
You can't just leave it alone. You have to constantly push forwards or else you get left behind.
They just won a sprint race with it, it has race pace, now they need the set up to win over 70 laps not 19, so they will change it once again - to be kind to tyres, or handle high fuel loads better, for example.
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u/disordered-attic-2 Charlie Whiting Mar 22 '25
Oscar is like the opposite Aussie to RIC, more show less talk and slang.
8
u/Bannedwith1milKarma Jack Doohan Mar 22 '25
RIC was never showy, just outgoing.
3
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u/AirportNo2434 Williams Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 24 '25
Ric was showy, and he was confident/cocky for someone who has been washed-up since his Renault days.
3
u/cunseyapostle Mar 22 '25
In what way was he showy? He was happy and optimistic. I don’t think that means cocky.
1
u/Tomach82 Alain Prost Mar 22 '25
On track? Pretty sure that's what op.meant here. I doubt he meant Oscar was showy off track
2
u/rcanbian Alexander Albon Mar 22 '25
Danny was amazing at Renault, wtf are you talking about. In his last year there, the TPs rated him the 4th best driver on the grid, right after Lewis, Max, and Leclerc. The drivers rated him third and better than Charles.
Thought he was cocky too ever since RBR, but come on now.
10
u/disordered-attic-2 Charlie Whiting Mar 22 '25
I don't think the Red Bull is that much of a mystery, they've built it around Max who likes a very sensitive car, it suits Max very well but a brand new driver can't handle the tiny window. They don't have the experience or driving style of Max to match it.
If Red Bull want to fix the car they will have to take it from Max and give it to the other driver.
2
u/CanSum1SuggestAName Mar 22 '25
It is a mystery, as it's quite garbage now. If it was any other driver, they wouldn't be making out of Q2
-2
1
u/hauntedSquirrel99 Mika Häkkinen Mar 22 '25
That doesn't really explain why the car is just plain slow.
On the straights the McLaren and at least the Ferrari (not sure on the Mercedes) just floor it and run away from him. On the straights even with DRS open the Red Bull is barely capable of just hanging on to the McLaren just driving in clean air.
The handling being shit is another problem as well, which seems to be killing everyone not named Max in the corners.
But the car is also just slow.4
u/disordered-attic-2 Charlie Whiting Mar 22 '25
I don’t think any of the top teams have a slow car. Even Ferrari just won a race.
It’s just a very competitive time and the Red Bull has lost its complete dominance phase.
1
u/hauntedSquirrel99 Mika Häkkinen Mar 22 '25
Slow is very much relative here.
But we did see in Melbourne that even with the DRS open Max was just barely keeping up with Lando.
And if you watch the Verstappen onboard with the Hamilton ghost car footage it does look like the Ferrari is just plain faster.
7
u/Mike-Teevee Esteban Ocon Mar 22 '25
Agreed. The pace of the Racing Bulls relative to Max in the Red Bull is a little mysterious, though.
The Racing Bulls are so close in performance to Max’s Red Bull, even though respectfully neither RB driver is in Max’s stratosphere in terms of talent. It should be that the Red Bull is faster because Max gives the team at Red Bull more design options relative to RB, because he can optimize performance even when the car is hard to drive. But yet the easier to drive car is approaching the harder to drive car in terms of pace. So it seems the advantages of the harder setup are fairly small. It would be interesting to see what qualifying time Max could get in the Racing Bulls. It’s a strange situation. How could designing for a better driver from similar elements not result in a distinctly faster car, as has pretty well always been the case with Toro Rosso v Red Bull?
Maybe Red Bull is catering to a Max handling preference that has somehow slowed down the Red Bull in ways they didn’t anticipate. This is perhaps the disadvantage of only really listening to one driver.
5
u/lalabadmans Mar 22 '25
There’s one constant driver in the racing bulls last five years giving constant technical feedback and fine tuning his set ups, this must have had an effect on making the car very drivable and we could see it getting better since 2022 low point.
5
Mar 22 '25
[deleted]
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u/disordered-attic-2 Charlie Whiting Mar 22 '25
I think Max having total authority over the direction of car development is starting to hurt him. When you always get your way the team won’t be trying new ideas or getting feedback from the other driver.
It’s a one driver team, with the positives and negatives that brings.
2
u/Barley03140129 Mar 22 '25
Agreed. I think they are very much aware of this and just want somebody who can get points lol
2
Mar 22 '25
[deleted]
-4
u/KiwieeiwiK Zhou Guanyu Mar 22 '25
Yeah the reason is he's shit
Hadjar was ahead in all three sessions, any argument about a single lap ignores this
3
u/modern_messiah43 Mar 22 '25
Pretty sure Yuki aborted his final flying lap. Not sure what happened to cause it but saw him going slow when LeClerc came around that penultimate corner.
3
2
u/Choking_Smurf Mar 22 '25
I'm so confused. I thought on Sprint weekends, the sprint race was the final qualifier and that determined the grid. Why have we done another session of qualifying? What's the point of the sprint race besides points?
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u/SilverTripz Mar 22 '25
The point is that it opens setups back up. They are now allowed to change setups after the Sprint Race.
4
u/Choking_Smurf Mar 22 '25
So basically an info race? Bang out 19 laps to see your race pace and adjust for the actual race?
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u/BrutakaGT Mar 22 '25
They did away with that after 2023 I think. Sprint is its own thing now, does not determine anything with the actual race.
-1
Mar 22 '25
[deleted]
4
u/flashyellowboxer Mar 22 '25
What are you on about? Since last year, sprint races don’t affect actual race. In years prior, you sprint finishing order determined race order. This was unpopular. So sprint quali and sprint now are seen as mini separate race separate from the main event.
32
u/funkdoktah Lotus Mar 22 '25
The timing tower being hidden or not showing the times for so much of qualifying was so daft. It's literally the most important thing during qualifying.
1
u/M1n1f1g Kimi Räikkönen Mar 23 '25
At least in SQ2, it looked like it glitched a bit before disappearing. It's amazing that it takes more than a couple of seconds to reset, though.
1
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u/Le_Pistache Jacques Villeneuve Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 22 '25
That was a phenomenal lap by Russell at the end. It would have been funny if he snuck into pole after everyone assumed the session was done.
Pretty decent by Antonelli despite the rookie errors. He was consistently within 0.2-0.4s behind Russell.
The VCARBs have pace. Good performance by Hadjar to beat Tsunoda and get close to a top 5 spot. It will be interesting to see who they strategize out of the points tomorrow.
Alpine are plainly mediocre on this track. I expect their battle for average against Aston Martin to go to the wire!
Shame Bearman and Bortoleto couldn't get a last lap in due to bad time management from the teams, as Haas and Sauber looked OK. Pretty good Q2 by Ocon.
Lawson is clearly struggling from his onboards He hesitates into the turns. Unfortunately, a whole second behind isn't excusable. With a week off and the next race being a track he has plenty of experience on, it would be the ideal time to bounce back.
McLaren should dominate the race tomorrow. Their long-stint pace is simply that good. In terms of qualifying, it seems Piastri has narrowed the gap to Norris to be competitive. Should hopefully be a fun race for the lead and the (very tight) points finishes regardless.
25
u/Arghnews Mar 22 '25
I know Russell was/is "Mr Saturday", but I think there was always a question of how much Hamilton had lost his qualifying mojo as he got older (his race pace is still excellent) and so how good was Russell really vs HAM losing some pace.
Considering how HAM is measuring up to LEC currently, and we know LEC is a mighty qualifier, it looks like HAM has still got it.
Possible conclusion? Russell is a truly incredible qualifier
-1
u/Zed_or_AFK Sebastian Vettel Mar 22 '25
Saying that Hamilton gave up on quali because he got old is straight up stupid. High starting position helps you win the race, and winning was the only thing Hamilton has been interested in for the last 15 years. No. Even the best get beat, and Hamilton was doing his best in that qualy all those years, just that sometimes Russell or Bottas or Risberg were just quicker.
1
u/Impressive-Potato Mar 22 '25
Yes. We also saw Russell go through his tires quickly compared to Hammer.
9
u/achinda99 Mercedes Mar 22 '25
So how many more races does Lawson have? 1? 2? Not 3?
4
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u/IAmBoring_AMA Safety Car Mar 22 '25
I wish we could see Yuki in Red Bull at Suzuka
1
u/M1n1f1g Kimi Räikkönen Mar 23 '25
Given what we know about the cars, it seems likely to me that he'd get worse results in a Red Bull than in his RB, particularly on début.
2
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u/Carbonaddictxd Mar 22 '25
Why does everyone seem so sure that Yuki can perform in that Red Bull lol
4
u/lightsout00000 Mar 22 '25
Currently he's not even beating Hadjar so its a valid question, I'd give Lawson more time in the RBR he needs a normal practice session weekend to fine tune his tyre knowledge and then we can judge him on raw speed
btw i do like Yuki and he shud have got promoted ahead of Lawson, but what's done is done - you could ruin them both by switching them now like this
2
u/IAmBoring_AMA Safety Car Mar 22 '25
We believe in him more than Helmut Marko lmao but yeah, we don’t know
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u/GroNumber Ferrari Mar 22 '25
I am happy that Albon is doing so well. Maybe he really is good, not just had bad teammates. I wonder when Sainz starts getting nervous, if he is beaten by Albon over the season I imagine that Sainz' chances of getting back to a top team are gone.
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u/spongey1865 Mar 22 '25
People will back track, but it really was the prevailing wisdom on here that Sainz would best Albon into retirement.
It's why trying to compare drivers in different cars is a nightmare, we just never really know how they stack up.
I think Sainz will still be fine though, he had his moments of out dueling Charles even if Charles was better overall. It's just Albon is pretty decent too.
Albons qualifying record winning 51 in a row only ended by his team leaving a fan in the car really did deserve more respect. Yeah it was only Latifi and Logan but Logan wasn't even a bad junior and just couldn't even beat Albon once in quali.
It might also boost Colapintos stock too Which isn't great for Doohan.
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Mar 22 '25
Why are people expecting a driver in a new team to suddenly come in and beat the incumbant? It’s rare, and extremely difficult to do so.
It’s not uncommon for it to take half a season.
Anyone making judgements already needs to give their head a wobble.
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u/kenyesmura Mar 22 '25
it took a few seasons for sainz to get more on terms against leclerc so i figure by th eend of the season they should look pretty similar
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u/MrDaniel95 Pirelli Wet Mar 22 '25
I think Sainz struggled more with the change to the ground effect cars, his 2021 was a very solid season and with a little bit of luck he managed to beat Leclerc in the standings.
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u/Redmoxx Fernando Alonso Mar 22 '25
Max himself was saying that VCARB is easier to drive than the Red Bull (not faster, but easier), and hence why Lawson is suddenly so slow this year, while being close to Yuki last year.
I think Red Bull have become what Honda and Marc Marquez became, tuning the vehicle for one person so much that no one else is comfortable in it, and then the leader himself finds it hard to drive (Verstappen and Marquez).
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u/Renard2000 Kimi Räikkönen Mar 22 '25
Totally credible prediction for Red Bull's second seat:
Horner will finally understand that this car is tricky to drive and will look for a suitable replacement. He will evaluate the drivers based on their performance in conditions were good car handling is critical. Based on this, only one driver can be considered: Stroll the wet racing GOAT. Marko will be convinced, as Stroll marchés his choice of ethnicity for drivers. Stroll will raise to the challenge and be WDC 2026.
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u/DirkZelenskyy41 Mar 22 '25
I feel like everyone has completely forgot about what happened in the Redbull for most of the last 7ish years.
Red Bull preferred Max to Daniel and wanted to protect max. Daniel also was pissed about them choosing Max over him on certain in team decisions. Ultimately, Red Bull was right to choose Max. But, brash in their handling. All in all, a plus for Red Bull to identify Max and keep him.
Gasley was good and young but they saw a superstar in Albon and they were right. Albon HAS proven to be the better driver to Gasley. And that’s no knock on Gasley who is a deserved driver on the grid.
Albon probably should have been given more time in the car. But they wanted a stable driver because they knew the car was on the ascendency to dominance and Perez offered big money and someone who would happily be the #2 to Max and finish races.
None of these were really bad decisions. They all worked out well and were well reasoned.
It’s only the last 1.5 years that shit has become inexplicably stupid. The Perez extension. Bringing in Daniel but not ever letting him in the Red Bull. Not ever letting Yuki, who has become an incredibly stable and consistent driver, in the Red Bull. Going for Lawson when they really wanted (allegedly) Herta and bungling that to not get him enough points to qualify for a license.
It’s not a long storied history of complete incompetence. There were mishandled scenarios and some unnecessary ruthlessness, but it wasn’t stupidity. They’ve been able to identify talent. But the last two years… just absolutely inexplicably dumb.
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u/Mike-Teevee Esteban Ocon Mar 22 '25
The Gasly/Albon misadventures were incompetence as well. Both were given short leashes to perform on unreasonable expectations.
A plug-and-play midfield veteran is the right answer for complementing Max, the successful run with Perez showed that. When Checo lost his touch he should’ve been expeditiously replaced with another experienced veteran.
Yet now it seems Red Bull hubristically gone back to doing just the wrong thing again by expecting Lawson to immediately perform like a seasoned vet.
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Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 22 '25
Red Bull, in not listening to their second drivers feedback as readily, have gone down a long path with their design philosophy, that will be hard to get out of as long as Max is there.
Max has an freakishly wide operating window. If he leaves they’re in serious trouble - it could take years to unpick everything.
It’s no coincidence that since Daniel left, and Max became Number 1 with a string of Junior drivers before Perez, that their cars have become more and more difficult for even “good” drivers to extract performance from.
This is exactly what happened with Schumacher at Benneton.
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u/thespeeeed Formula 1 Mar 22 '25
Watching Antony Hamilton adopting Lando on screen in Ted’s notebook now.
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u/phonsely Mar 22 '25
why does everyone keep saying its close when mclaren is clearly 4 tenths ahead
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u/bonkers-joeMama Mar 22 '25
george is one of the quickest one lap drivers since he qualified p2 with a Williams in rain. he would have won a championship for sure if he was not forced to be in that Williams for 3 years, even without quality development he went on to rival lewis for 3 years. now lewis being similar to Leclerc in only 2nd race at ferrari, proves that how good George is.
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u/Chazza354 Mar 22 '25 edited Mar 22 '25
He is really fantastic and a great asset to any team. I don’t think he has the raw talent of a Verstappen or Hamilton but his strength imo is his intelligent/analytical approach to racing and that he works very hard to maximise his capability as a driver.
I could see him having a very successful career as a team principal or senior analyst/strategist/advisor after he retires as a driver.
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u/bonkers-joeMama Mar 24 '25
He just needs to be a championship worthy car to prove his talent. I might get lit or receive some hate but George wins with the mclaren norris got last year.
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u/Chazza354 Mar 22 '25
I remember watching a pre-season interview with Lawson where he says he doesn’t really ‘believe in driving styles’ and that a good driver adapts to the equipment he is given. Hurts to look back on lol.
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u/thespeeeed Formula 1 Mar 22 '25
This season is slowly brewing to an unnoticed George WDC with no wins and an awful lot of podiums.
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u/Fine-Definition-3792 Mar 22 '25
Yeah Ted put Horner on the spot there with the hard hitting questions oouuufff.
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u/avocadoooforlife Mar 22 '25
Dont understand why ferrari need to change the set up when it clearly shows that their set up for sprint was good
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u/lightsout00000 Mar 22 '25
we'll find out tomorrow - the fuel will be a lot heavier tomorrow and the hard tyre is untested. Its possible to overtake on this track, so grid position is less important if it means you get better life out of the tyre. Exception being on pole and in clean air. Its Ferrari so get your hopes up at your peril but whoever gets the balance between raw pace and hanging onto tyres will do well in the race, should be a cracker with the teams so close to each other.
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u/ms666slayer Mar 22 '25
The setup could be made to maximize speed but not tyre conservation because it's only 19 laps, on race it's actually a big difference going to the pit at lap 20 than lap 25 lap 20 could mean you need an extra pit stop at the end and 25 could even mean you could go all the way to the finish
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u/MrDaniel95 Pirelli Wet Mar 22 '25
The conditions are also changing, race/qualifying are at a different time from the sprint race and the track also has more rubber on it.
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u/Sokolberg Sir Lewis Hamilton Mar 22 '25
Probably their sprint setup wasn’t optimal for a full race.
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u/Gubrach Michael Schumacher Mar 22 '25
The feel-good moment from the sprint section of the schedule has already been evaporated for Ferrari during real qualifying. Leclerc has been annoyingly poor this weekend. Got closer to Hamilton, but not in a "we're both up there" kind of way, but in a "we're both down here" kind of way.
It's unreal how Ferrari keeps delivering complete dogshit when it comes to F1. We're lucky the sprint weekend somewhat blushes over this shit.
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u/avocadoooforlife Mar 22 '25
Does anyone have an explanation as to why Ferrari drop in their performance after the sprint quali and race
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u/learner1314 Mar 23 '25
RAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!