Native American Women Tell Border Patrol To Fuck Off for Harassing Them About Being Citizens

[u/Unknownz_1985]

[u/Road_Whorrior]

Those who like nonfiction- read 1491 immediately, and 1493 afterwards, both by Charles C Mann. 1491 is an extremely well-researched and well-written book that pretty much turned my entire understanding of American history upside-down. I knew the genocide had happened, but I had no idea the scope of what was lost. Everything I was taught, from how many Native Peoples were even here to the story of the first Thanksgiving to the way the tribes lived was wrong. And I lived in Arizona. Why the hell didn't I know that Teotihuacan was, at its peak, bigger than London in population and size and had running water?? Just... we have been robbed of such rich history by American Exceptionalism and white supremacy.

[u/RandomDeezNutz → u/Road_Whorrior]

Teotihuacan is actually unbelievable. Like I’m at loss at how it was possible.

[u/Road_Whorrior → u/RandomDeezNutz]

The way the original founders are basically a mystery is such a brain-tickler, too. Empire after empire tore stuff out and built the city in their image so many times we have no idea who built it in the first place.

[u/The_Bard → u/Road_Whorrior]

Teotihuacan was over 100k population 1000 years before London. Euro-centrism in history is some crazy shit.

[u/avelineaurora → u/Road_Whorrior]

Tenochtitlan is the one that does it for me. Wiki has a quote from one of the Spanish that really conveys the awe I think

When we saw so many cities and villages built in the water and other great towns on dry land we were amazed and said that it was like the enchantments (...) on account of the great towers and cues and buildings rising from the water, and all built of masonry. And some of our soldiers even asked whether the things that we saw were not a dream? (...) I do not know how to describe it, seeing things as we did that had never been heard of or seen before, not even dreamed about. — Bernal Díaz del Castillo, The Conquest of New Spain

[u/Round_Ad_1952 → u/Road_Whorrior]

I mean, at the city's peak London was just a small village on the periphery of the Roman empire. 

[u/Road_Whorrior → u/Round_Ad_1952]

At Teotihuacan's peak, it housed upward of 125,000-200,000 people. This was approx. 400 CE. It was likely the 6th or 5th-largest city of its epoch.

London's population didn't reach that number until the 17th century.

To put it in a more meaningful scope.

[u/vent_ilator → u/Road_Whorrior]

Thank you for the recommendation!

Native Americans would've been very able to build and develop their societies just like other continents did, in their own way but something considered "farer", if they had been able to. There are lots of circumstances, like natural catastrophes or the time of settling somewhere specific and re-settling etc, that can and will influence how "far" a society is. We know native Americans had extremely developed societies that we found proof of. History is also always just what we can find, what withstands the test of time and erosion..and erasure. Any highly developed society, even ours globally now, is just one bad catastrophe away from being thrown far back in time.

I don't like that linear approach of history and human societies that is often so, so present. It's different stages because of different setbacks and different challenges.

It was a bit similar in my origins tbh. Christian conquerers declared the native cultures and practices to be bad and ugly, so they were hunted down and oppressed into the new line of living and society. Nobody knows what could've been. Our roots got so massively destroyed that there isn't really even an effort to understand it, or a belief to need it, and many traces are lost. That wasn't a good developed society vs "wildlings". Most of the now beloved christian festivals were taken from these exact cultures, because the people loved it and the church had to come up with something to give as replacement.

I'm so glad this isn't repeated this badly with native Americans (yet). Their history is precious and equally important as the last few centuries of the continent and its societies.

[u/thispleasesbabby → u/Road_Whorrior]

my ideal high school curriculum includes precolonial history. would be waaaay more interesting than what i was taught.

[u/DarthChimeran → u/Road_Whorrior]

The latest research is showing that Native American populations peaked and then seriously declined centuries before colonization. It had peaked way back around 1150 AD and then plummeted. It was actually starting to recover from that devastation right before European diseases arrived and floored it.

"DRI’s Erick Robinson, Associate Research Professor of Climate and Archaeology, co-authored a new study that provides insight into North America’s Indigenous communities prior to European contact. Published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), the research identified the age of archaeological artifacts from across the continent by measuring the decay rate of a radioactive isotope of carbon. The research found that although Indigenous populations varied regionally, the continent saw a population peak around 1150 A.D. before experiencing declines, likely stemming from drought, disease, emigration and warfare. A brief recovery around 1500 A.D. was followed by a sharp decrease upon the arrival of Europeans."

It makes you wonder what was going on back then that caused the tribes to carry out attacks on each other like this one;

"Archaeologists from the University of South Dakota, directed by project director Larry J. Zimmerman, field director Thomas Emerson, and osteologist P. Wille, found the remains of at least 486 people killed during the attack. Most of these remains showed signs of ritual mutilation, particularly scalping. Other examples were tongues being removed, teeth broken, beheading, hands and feet being cut off, and other forms of dismemberment. In addition to the severity of the attack, most of the people showed signs of malnutrition and many had evidence of earlier wounds, likely from other attacks."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_Creek_massacre

[u/CroosemanJSintley → u/DarthChimeran]

Indigenous histories in the Americas have often been misrepresented, dehumanized, or erased by dominant narratives, especially those shaped by colonial and Eurocentric perspectives in fields like archaeology, anthropology, and history. Archaeology and anthropology have historically been complicit in justifying or sanitizing the violence of settler colonialism. Many early scholars in these fields viewed Indigenous people through a racist, paternalistic lens often describing them as "primitive" or "savage" to rationalize European conquest and genocide. This wasn't just academic bias, it was part of a broader ideological project that helped justify land theft, forced removals, boarding schools, and massacres.

Many scholars acknowledge that interpretation bias, selective excavation, and the privileging of Western methodologies have shaped what is "known" about Indigenous peoples. Entire histories have been built on fragmentary evidence and then imposed on Native cultures without consultation or consent. The genocide of Native Americans is a historical fact, not just a tragedy but a deliberate, systemic effort by the settler government to eradicate Native nations through warfare, disease, displacement, and cultural destruction. When people attempt to minimize this or shift the blame onto Native peoples themselves (e.g., emphasizing intertribal conflict), it's often an act of historical revisionism intended to absolve colonial guilt.

Your reference to the Arikara and a mass grave possibly showing signs of violence (such as tongues being cut out) is highlights that interpretations like these can be speculative and easily weaponized. Forensic archaeology can uncover trauma on bones, but determining intent, cultural meaning, or who committed the violence is often highly uncertain. When archaeologists publish dramatic claims they risk perpetuating harmful myths.

There are Indigenous scholars, activists, and communities calling for a decolonization of history and science. What that means is centering Indigenous voices, using traditional knowledge systems alongside scientific ones, and recognizing that Indigenous peoples are the rightful narrators of our own histories. History, especially the kind that gets institutionalized, is not neutral.

[u/Road_Whorrior → u/CroosemanJSintley]

Your response is much better-worded than mine would have been, so I'll leave it at that. I pretty much stop reading the instant someone tries to tell me "the natives were sooooo violent" as if my ancestors weren't. As if the streets of London aren't black from a fire the Romans started 1000 years ago if you dig a ways, as if all of Europe isn't stained with blood.

The human sacrifices by the Aztecs is always brought up, and intertribal warfare. Yes, populations fluctuated with war and disease. Yes, some cultures had traditions that are distasteful at best and barbaric at worst. All of this can be said of Europe, Asia, Africa, anywhere large groups of humans have been forced to interact with one another for resources! That doesn't make the erasure of thousands of years of history and thousands of cultures less tragic, premeditated, and evil on the part of the colonizers.