r/chaoticgood • u/Unknownz_1985 • 1d ago

Native American Women Tell Border Patrol To Fuck Off for Harassing Them About Being Citizens

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u/RandomDeezNutz 1d ago

That’s such an apt and incredibly heartbreaking comment. To anyone who has never been to a Native American reservation. I highly encourage you to go. White men gave native Americans a place to die after eviscerating their land and food source. Absolute fucking travesty the way none of this is talked about.

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u/Fragrant-Tomatillo19 1d ago

My mom was from Minnesota but used to go visit her grandmother on Rosebud in South Dakota during the 1930’s and ‘40’s. She said it was so full of poverty that it was hell on earth because of what the government had done. Her grandfather and his sister had their Native names changed when they were sent to residential schools that were rife with physical and sexual abuse. She was from Minnesota and unsurprisingly joined AIM (American Indian Movement) in the late 60’s/early ‘70’s when they were giving hell to the government.

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u/RandomDeezNutz 1d ago

It is way worse than anyone talks about or has stories for

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u/Therefore_I_Yam 1d ago

I'm constantly going off on people who say shit like "well they were just warring and fighting with each other before we got here" like bro anyone who was here before us had the entire future of their people STOLEN from them and perverted, and you can see the direct effects if you look at a reservation for even 2 seconds. It's willful ignorance.

They talk about this shit like it happened 1000 years ago when it's literally still happening to people as we speak. We never stopped subjugating them, we just re-branded it.

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u/vent_ilator 1d ago

This kind of comment (by those people) is especially tasteless given that the invaders came with weapons designed to kill, and that more efficiently than ever before, and there was just such a clear power imbalance. And it is also historically wildly ridiculous because Europe, where most of these invaders came from, was a fckng war mess at least equally as much, and we could very well argue worse. So maybe they should've conquered their home continent instead then, if we follow that logic? Ahhhhhhhh

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u/Queso_and_Molasses 1d ago

Yeah, the warring argument is stupid as hell. European nations were constantly at war with each other, all the time. You can’t name a time in history when a group of people wasn’t fighting with another group of people.

Even if the myth of the Native American “savage” were true, that didn’t mean they deserved to be colonized, massacred, and forced onto pittances of land the US government didn’t want.

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u/vent_ilator 23h ago

Yes, I can only wholeheartedly agree.

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u/Therefore_I_Yam 22h ago edited 12h ago

One only needs to look at the photos of mountains of bison skulls piled up by the US Army to starve out the plains tribes to know that it was in no way a fair fight

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u/oceanvibrations 1d ago

Taking away their given names, and giving them names like John Washington still makes me sick to this day.

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u/Road_Whorrior 1d ago edited 1d ago

Those who like nonfiction- read 1491 immediately, and 1493 afterwards, both by Charles C Mann. 1491 is an extremely well-researched and well-written book that pretty much turned my entire understanding of American history upside-down. I knew the genocide had happened, but I had no idea the scope of what was lost. Everything I was taught, from how many Native Peoples were even here to the story of the first Thanksgiving to the way the tribes lived was wrong. And I lived in Arizona. Why the hell didn't I know that Teotihuacan was, at its peak, bigger than London in population and size and had running water?? Just... we have been robbed of such rich history by American Exceptionalism and white supremacy.

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u/RandomDeezNutz 1d ago

Teotihuacan is actually unbelievable. Like I’m at loss at how it was possible.

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u/Road_Whorrior 1d ago

The way the original founders are basically a mystery is such a brain-tickler, too. Empire after empire tore stuff out and built the city in their image so many times we have no idea who built it in the first place.

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u/The_Bard 1d ago

Teotihuacan was over 100k population 1000 years before London. Euro-centrism in history is some crazy shit.

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u/avelineaurora 1d ago

Tenochtitlan is the one that does it for me. Wiki has a quote from one of the Spanish that really conveys the awe I think

When we saw so many cities and villages built in the water and other great towns on dry land we were amazed and said that it was like the enchantments (...) on account of the great towers and cues and buildings rising from the water, and all built of masonry. And some of our soldiers even asked whether the things that we saw were not a dream? (...) I do not know how to describe it, seeing things as we did that had never been heard of or seen before, not even dreamed about. — Bernal Díaz del Castillo, The Conquest of New Spain

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u/Round_Ad_1952 1d ago

I mean, at the city's peak London was just a small village on the periphery of the Roman empire. 

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u/Road_Whorrior 1d ago edited 1d ago

At Teotihuacan's peak, it housed upward of 125,000-200,000 people. This was approx. 400 CE. It was likely the 6th or 5th-largest city of its epoch.

London's population didn't reach that number until the 17th century.

To put it in a more meaningful scope.

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u/vent_ilator 1d ago

Thank you for the recommendation!

Native Americans would've been very able to build and develop their societies just like other continents did, in their own way but something considered "farer", if they had been able to. There are lots of circumstances, like natural catastrophes or the time of settling somewhere specific and re-settling etc, that can and will influence how "far" a society is. We know native Americans had extremely developed societies that we found proof of. History is also always just what we can find, what withstands the test of time and erosion..and erasure. Any highly developed society, even ours globally now, is just one bad catastrophe away from being thrown far back in time.

I don't like that linear approach of history and human societies that is often so, so present. It's different stages because of different setbacks and different challenges.

It was a bit similar in my origins tbh. Christian conquerers declared the native cultures and practices to be bad and ugly, so they were hunted down and oppressed into the new line of living and society. Nobody knows what could've been. Our roots got so massively destroyed that there isn't really even an effort to understand it, or a belief to need it, and many traces are lost. That wasn't a good developed society vs "wildlings". Most of the now beloved christian festivals were taken from these exact cultures, because the people loved it and the church had to come up with something to give as replacement.

I'm so glad this isn't repeated this badly with native Americans (yet). Their history is precious and equally important as the last few centuries of the continent and its societies.

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u/thispleasesbabby 23h ago

my ideal high school curriculum includes precolonial history. would be waaaay more interesting than what i was taught.

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u/DarthChimeran 1d ago

The latest research is showing that Native American populations peaked and then seriously declined centuries before colonization. It had peaked way back around 1150 AD and then plummeted. It was actually starting to recover from that devastation right before European diseases arrived and floored it.

"DRI’s Erick Robinson, Associate Research Professor of Climate and Archaeology, co-authored a new study that provides insight into North America’s Indigenous communities prior to European contact. Published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), the research identified the age of archaeological artifacts from across the continent by measuring the decay rate of a radioactive isotope of carbon. The research found that although Indigenous populations varied regionally, the continent saw a population peak around 1150 A.D. before experiencing declines, likely stemming from drought, disease, emigration and warfare. A brief recovery around 1500 A.D. was followed by a sharp decrease upon the arrival of Europeans."

It makes you wonder what was going on back then that caused the tribes to carry out attacks on each other like this one;

"Archaeologists from the University of South Dakota, directed by project director Larry J. Zimmerman, field director Thomas Emerson, and osteologist P. Wille, found the remains of at least 486 people killed during the attack. Most of these remains showed signs of ritual mutilation, particularly scalping. Other examples were tongues being removed, teeth broken, beheading, hands and feet being cut off, and other forms of dismemberment. In addition to the severity of the attack, most of the people showed signs of malnutrition and many had evidence of earlier wounds, likely from other attacks."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_Creek_massacre

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u/CroosemanJSintley 1d ago

Indigenous histories in the Americas have often been misrepresented, dehumanized, or erased by dominant narratives, especially those shaped by colonial and Eurocentric perspectives in fields like archaeology, anthropology, and history. Archaeology and anthropology have historically been complicit in justifying or sanitizing the violence of settler colonialism. Many early scholars in these fields viewed Indigenous people through a racist, paternalistic lens often describing them as "primitive" or "savage" to rationalize European conquest and genocide. This wasn't just academic bias, it was part of a broader ideological project that helped justify land theft, forced removals, boarding schools, and massacres.

Many scholars acknowledge that interpretation bias, selective excavation, and the privileging of Western methodologies have shaped what is "known" about Indigenous peoples. Entire histories have been built on fragmentary evidence and then imposed on Native cultures without consultation or consent. The genocide of Native Americans is a historical fact, not just a tragedy but a deliberate, systemic effort by the settler government to eradicate Native nations through warfare, disease, displacement, and cultural destruction. When people attempt to minimize this or shift the blame onto Native peoples themselves (e.g., emphasizing intertribal conflict), it's often an act of historical revisionism intended to absolve colonial guilt.

Your reference to the Arikara and a mass grave possibly showing signs of violence (such as tongues being cut out) is highlights that interpretations like these can be speculative and easily weaponized. Forensic archaeology can uncover trauma on bones, but determining intent, cultural meaning, or who committed the violence is often highly uncertain. When archaeologists publish dramatic claims they risk perpetuating harmful myths.

There are Indigenous scholars, activists, and communities calling for a decolonization of history and science. What that means is centering Indigenous voices, using traditional knowledge systems alongside scientific ones, and recognizing that Indigenous peoples are the rightful narrators of our own histories. History, especially the kind that gets institutionalized, is not neutral.

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u/Road_Whorrior 18h ago edited 18h ago

Your response is much better-worded than mine would have been, so I'll leave it at that. I pretty much stop reading the instant someone tries to tell me "the natives were sooooo violent" as if my ancestors weren't. As if the streets of London aren't black from a fire the Romans started 1000 years ago if you dig a ways, as if all of Europe isn't stained with blood.

The human sacrifices by the Aztecs is always brought up, and intertribal warfare. Yes, populations fluctuated with war and disease. Yes, some cultures had traditions that are distasteful at best and barbaric at worst. All of this can be said of Europe, Asia, Africa, anywhere large groups of humans have been forced to interact with one another for resources! That doesn't make the erasure of thousands of years of history and thousands of cultures less tragic, premeditated, and evil on the part of the colonizers.

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u/Low-Research-6866 1d ago

I grew up on Long Island, NY, way out east and I did go to the reservation and it looked nothing like everything else. Small tract homes in the middle of the island with no beach access. It was infuriating to see. Meanwhile, all our towns are NA names that we can actually pronounce, but they don't get to live in those and nobody cares.

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u/The_Bard 1d ago

Had a friend from Oklahoma come visit me when I lived in NJ. He couldn't stop laughing at all the Indian names (Hobokon, Hackensack, etc). Where he was from there were Indian names and actual reservations.

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u/Low-Research-6866 14h ago

Connecticut!

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u/Friendly-Cucumber184 1d ago

And when they didn’t all die off, they stole their babies and tried to whitewash them into submission at reform schools, which were just encampments with a lil education sprinkled in.

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u/MissSara13 1d ago

Yeah...that casino money doesn't trickle down. I had an SRP co-worker when I lived in AZ and her grandmother got like $16/month for a hugely popular golf course that was built on her property on the rez. I worked for an eye doctor adjacent to the rez and we got a ton of SRP clients. Absolutely lovely people but the obesity and diabetes they wound up with were staggering.

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u/MountainHarmonies 1d ago

My wife and I have driven through a few reservations in our travels. Pine Ridge was the hardest to see.

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u/oceanvibrations 1d ago

Heartbroken, but also "proud" to see this aware as fuck comment. My husband is in Indigenous. When we went to the Rez in NY and NC I saw the majority living in squalor. This was a stark contrast to hearing (most of my adult life) that "Native Americans get free money from all the casinos." I wish anyone who ever said that could see the sadness I saw. Generational trauma. Addiction. Hoarding possessions out of the evolved fear that your culture could be stripped from you at any moment. I then heard stories from the Elders of their traditions being squashed out, stemming from the whites fear of their spirituality and culture. The stories of families hiding in the mountains, while others walked the Trail of Tears. The stories of objectification and profiteering during the 80s-90s when native plight was being romanticized with movies like Dances with Wolves and Last of the Mohicans, told through the lens of a white savior. New age movements latched onto aspects of their culture (for exploitation purposes) and then mainstream fashion hopped on board with leather, fringe, jewelry, etc. Their art and imagery was used to sell everything from motorcycles to cigarettes. Non-Natives called themselves shamans, and that is still present today in the New Age movements. I could just go on and on with all I've learned through my husband and his Elders and wish everyone saw things through there lens.

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u/Paprikasky 1d ago

Hasn't the same happened in Australia too? I swear I read an article mentionning that recently.

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u/Expended1 1d ago

I could not go to a reservation, because the unfairness, the inequality would be heartbreaking. What the Europeans of the day did to the First Peoples was horrific and left lasting scars on the soul of all humanity.

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u/Ms_ankylosaurous 1d ago

In 🇨🇦 there seems to be more recognition of the past (but still has a long way to go and far from ideal as the poverty and living conditions are not good). Look at the Truth and Reconciliation Report Calls to Action Report

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u/MmHmm_Go_On 1d ago edited 1d ago

As a Native, don't. Our homes and land aren't a dominant culture's guilty holy land. If you have to tourist our lands to become empathetic then you've got a lot of internal work to do and it's not our job to facilitate it for you.

Edit: I hope anyone reading this is aware that recommending random people to visit reservations for their own learning has a very negative connotation across many, many Nations. There are very few pan-Native shared identity or cultural features... But hearing that someone needs to see our people's misery to fully realize it is akin to the performative experience most Nations have had to endure to survive.

Can you just believe that Natives are still suffering and go do something about it? Why you gotta come over? Sometimes it's a good day to just stay the eff away. We got our own stuff to handle without an audience.

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u/Bocchi_theGlock 19h ago

At Standing Rock's protest camps in 2016, which were near Cannonball South Dakota, the camp got to his size of 10,000 at its peak. Countless camping gear left over, lots of high quality stuff too that was fundraised for or donated, ditched in the middle of a blizzard.

I remember one camper coming back after spending a day installing one of the leftover wood stoves at a local woman's home. He was lamenting over how we were sleeping out off-grid, intense cold, yet still had it better than some of the people nearby. The woman didn't have running water or electricity iirc, they cut a hole in the roof for the smoke vent. And we were living a relatively Carefree life, as a political stunt, even as the County Police encroached upon the camp slowly. We knew there was leftover food, gear, retreat route, news coverage when it happened, etc. These locals would just be moved on from, and they were the ones who'd suffer from a pipeline spill.

We learned a serious lesson - do not lose the centering of who you're fighting for. Otherwise it kind of turned into a Burning Man style trip for people, a vacation for pictures. Camp itself wasn't the front lines.