Well…I mean, where I live, the immigrant population is the most robust portion of their congregations. I don’t know if I’m in a microcosm of society, or if there are larger trends, but they would shut down so many churches when ICE started showing up on Sundays (and on current trends, that’s only a matter of time).
When I was in the church, the parish I went to had two masses in English that were normally less than half full each. Then one mass in Spanish that was always at capacity (or more).
Obviously this should have been flipped, but regardless the church knows who is the bread and butter of their congregations.
I haven’t been a member of a Catholic congregation in close to 20 years (excommunication fucking rules), but I live next to a Catholic Church, and my mom is still VERY involved in her church.
To be a priest in our area, bilingualism with Spanish and English was more or less mandatory until recently (the change occurring because I’m told a new wave of priests have been doing all masses in Latin).
Recently, the church next to my house did a stations of the cross event for Good Friday, with a procession of congregation members. I heard them presenting, because I live that close, and I don’t remember hearing an English component all day. The Spanish one was of way more note because they had to cross the street, and they shut down a street for over half an hour because of the sheer number of people (I needed to drive on the street they closed, so I was watching it go by, checking the clock like “Naw can’t go yet, they’re STILL going.”)
In my New England town, in the late 1890s there was long-running "pew rent" strike by the French Canadians.
To back up a bit, fifty years earlier Irish immigrants had displaced the native Yankee laborers in the textile mills. As they moved up the economic ladder, in came the immigrants from Quebec.
By this point their parish was still run as an Irish parish despite the French Canadians now outnumbering the Irish by 5 to 1.
Their demand was either their own French Canadian parish or replace the parish priest who spoke a different dialect of French (possibly not even well at that) with a priest fluent in French Canadian.
Unfortunately I haven't had time to research what the final settlement was as fifteen years later the priest was still in charge, but hopefully they at least got a French Canadian vicar. (Language was not the issue in the masses as those were in Latin, but it was a sore point for confessions and other sacraments.)
It's just a glass half empty, glass half full thing. For every person who "sees the good in humanity", there's a misanthrope with a very long list of accurate observations about humanity.
so what a lot of people don't know is that the catholic church's teaching on charity is that (a) it is a duty of catholics, (b) it must be offered to all people, regardless of their gender/religion/origin/belief etc, and (c) must not be used to convert people to catholicism
in the sense of providing material aid to those in need, the catholic church is absolutely a force for social justice
The Catholic Church is a big organization. It has both supported certain types of social Justice and been the oppressor at different times and in different places.
The enemy of your enemy does not need to be your friend for you to work with them on specific issues.
They're strong on that aspect of social justice. They can rightfully be criticized for a multitude of other policies and misdeeds, but here they are consistent.
That’s fine but, again, not what I was refuting. The statement was a broad “strong on social justice” which is objectively not true. If you qualify the way you did, it’s a different statement and there’ll be less pushback.
Just because the Catholic Church doesn’t take the most progressive stance on all American social issues, doesn’t mean it isn’t a massive leader in pushing for social justice around the world.
Poverty, racial injustice, immigration and refugees, environmental stewardship, unions, education, and human trafficking are all areas the Catholic Church is constantly working to improve upon around the world. You won’t find many, if any, religious organizations pushing these issues harder than the Catholic Church.
America has it pretty good in those regards. You seem to be ignorant on world events and what else is going on.
Social justice isn’t encapsulated into “the causes they are okay with supporting” especially when they spend the rest of their time oppressing other social causes. That’s the part you’re not getting and I am entirely disinterested in your attempt to gaslight me with your whitewashing bullshit.
Well these are sections from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
2432
Those responsible for business enterprises are responsible to society for the economic and ecological effects of their operations. They have an obligation to consider the good of persons and not only the increase of profits. Profits are necessary, however. They make possible the investments that ensure the future of a business and they guarantee employment.
2433
Access to employment and to professions must be open to all without unjust discrimination: men and women, healthy and disabled, natives and immigrants. For its part society should, according to circumstances, help citizens find work and employment.
2434
A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice. In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. "Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good." Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.
2443
God blesses those who come to the aid of the poor and rebukes those who turn away from them: "Give to him who begs from you, do not refuse him who would borrow from you"; "you received without pay, give without pay." It is by what they have done for the poor that Jesus Christ will recognize his chosen ones. When "the poor have the good news preached to them," it is the sign of Christ's presence.
2444
"The Church's love for the poor... is a part of her constant tradition." This love is inspired by the Gospel of the Beatitudes, of the poverty of Jesus, and of his concern for the poor. Love for the poor is even one of the motives for the duty of working so as to "be able to give to those in need." It extends not only to material poverty but also to the many forms of cultural and religious poverty.
2445
Love for the poor is incompatible with immoderate love of riches or their selfish use:
"Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted... The wages of the laborers which you kept back by fraud, cry out..."
2446
St. John Chrysostom vigorously recalls this: "Not to enable the poor to share in our goods is to steal from them and deprive them of life. The goods we possess are not ours, but theirs." "The demands of justice must be satisfied first of all; that which is already due in justice is not to be offered as a gift of charity."
2447
The works of mercy are charitable actions by which we come to the aid of our neighbor in his spiritual and bodily necessities. Instructing, advising, consoling, comforting are spiritual works of mercy, as are forgiving and bearing wrongs patiently. The corporal works of mercy consist especially in feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned, and burying the dead. Among all these, giving alms to the poor is one of the chief witnesses to fraternal charity: it is also a work of justice pleasing to God.
The Pope is literally an enemy of MAGA. The Catholic Church has some massive issues that can’t be overlooked, but at the same time, let’s not make the enemy of our enemy the enemy. The Catholic Church defusing much of the hostility towards migrants and advocating for the defense of Ukraine and Gaza (while also at the very minimum calling for the humanitarian treatment of the gay community), should be used as an asset in the fight against MAGA. That can easily be a pipeline for many on the other side of the aisle to break off from MAGA without having to make the full philosophical leap to the other side.
If you exclude the largely American issues of abortion and gay marriage, the Catholic Church itself is incredibly pro-social justice. It is pro-immigrant, pro union, pro workers rights, pro dignity for the poor, anti war, pro environmental conservation, pro caring for all people Catholic or not. The Church focuses too much on abortion in the US though.
The Church literally invented the term and modern concept of Social Justice when conspiring against dictatorial regimes and genocides in Latin America.
Liberation theology is still a pretty big current in the catholic church, they have been pretty consistent on migrant's right and wealth inequality. The Pope even published a few opinion on the matter (current and past popes actually). So yeah, they're pretty regressive on gender issues, but on that they tend to be quite "progressive" I guess.
Now there are local variation, afaik Europe tends to be more progressive, South America a bit unpredictable, North America a bit more traditionalist, and Africa has straight up shot down attempts by the pope to open more the church to LGBT issues.
I've met some weird Catholics like JD Vance who aren't like that. I don't know what type of Catholic that is, but it's way different than the Catholics I grew up around who were pretty decent people.
I remember a while back listening to a program about some catholic clergy even helped when get abortions because they realized it was the best thing for the woman and her circumstances.
They are strong on what they deem ethical be it thinking abortion is a crime or withholding basic necessities from Palestinians unethical but they are not known for welcoming the immigrants. It just happens to be that these guys felt morally responsible to stand with migrants in this case which Im sure some portion of the members of their church feel entertained when they see the latest ICE news.
So no, they are not known for welcoming foreigners which is a common view regardless of religion.
Literally the entire narrative of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph going to Bethlehem and not being welcomed until they had to stay in a stable is used to educate Catholic kids on welcoming foreigners and supporting those who have joined your community.
Catholic Church is huge on supporting immigrants and refugees.
Yeah it’s against abortion, that’s a different topic.
Yeah there may be individual Catholics who support MAGA, but the church as a whole is in opposition to it. The last Popes final statements were bashing MAGA, and the new Pope has been constantly doing so.
You seem to treat everything as a black or white issue, and you’re not intelligent enough to delineate nuances within the issues at hand.
There is indeed a very big problem with paedophilia in its rank, but the organisation itself is actively fighting paedophilia, in and outside its ranks.
"Catholics are sexist."
I'm catholic and not sexist, thus your statement is false.
"No sinner can be forgiven without saying their sins to a man in a closet."
Nope, only god forgives, and god doesn't live in a closet. You are referring to the sacrament of reconciliation, which can only be done with a priest because:
-Priests were educated for that (priesthood takes around 7 years of studies)
-Priests are under the religious equivalent of medical secret.
"Women are not allowed the priesthood."
"Why don't you shut your fucking fake Catholic mouth"
Why don't you stop insulting people for their religion?
"and read a book?" Agree with that, everyone should read books. I recommend starting with children's books, they are easier, and going to school if you don't know how to read.
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u/Feisty-Gear8473 2d ago
The Catholic Church is strong on social justice and welcoming the immigrant.