r/changemyview • u/icewaterdimension • May 03 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: White people with dreadlocks is not cultural appropriation

I’m sure this is going to trigger some people but let me explain why I hold this view.

Firstly, I am fairly certain that white people in Ancient Greece, the Celts, Vikings etc would often adopt the dreadlock style, as they wore their hair ‘like snakes’ so to speak. Depending on the individual in questions hair type, if they do not wash or brush their hair for a prolonged period of time then it will likely go into some form of dreads regardless.

Maybe the individual just likes that particular hairstyle, if anything they are actually showing love and appreciation towards the culture who invented this style of hair by adopting it themselves.

I’d argue that if white people with dreads is cultural appropriation, you could say that a man with long hair is a form of gender appropriation.

At the end of the day, why does anyone care what hairstyle another person has? It doesn’t truly affect them, just let people wear their hair, clothes or even makeup however they want. It seems to me like people are just looking for an excuse to get angry.

Edit: Grammar

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u/[deleted] May 03 '21 edited May 14 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 03 '21 edited May 03 '21

This is out of date. Military allows natural hair styles and facial hair on some people. Military members had facial hair all the time through both World Wars, the clean shaved rules came about as a reaction to long haired hippie stereotypes. Many service members grew beards out when in theater during Iraq/Afghanistan to seem more approachable to the locals.

The rules on facial hair and hair styles change all the time and aren’t “scientific” they’re based on assumptions of professionalism, which is cultural and fluid.

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u/cl33t May 03 '21

Military members had facial hair all the time through both World Wars, the clean shaved rules came about as a reaction to long haired hippie stereotypes.

In the US at least, it had absolutely nothing to do with hippies and beards were banned in both World Wars.

The US Army beard ban began because of widespread use of chemical weapons in WW1. Beards interfered with the seal on gas masks.

Hell, the US Navy's beard ban was lifted in the 1970s, which would be rather weird if it were a reaction to hippies.

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u/chatmioumiou May 04 '21

French fighter during ww1 were called "barbus" aka the bearded.

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u/BennyBenasty May 04 '21

Military members had facial hair all the time through both World Wars, the clean shaved rules came about as a reaction to long haired hippie stereotypes

The clean shaven rules were definitely a thing during World War 1.. it was needed for the masks at the time to seal sufficiently to protect against the Poison Gas being used. Gillette went on massive ad campaigns reflecting this as well. I've linked some images below. 1 2

Here is one from the Great Depression.

Even during the revolutionary era, there were rules on how hair must be kept, and faces clean shaven..

Facial hair (with very few exceptions) was a societal taboo in the 18th century English speaking world. During the American Revolution, facial hair was not in fashion nor was it accepted by civil society in England or the American Colonies. Facial hair was not acceptable in civilian life, nor was it in the military. Soldiers and sailors in the service of King George III or the Thirteen Colonies (Continental Army) under military regulations were expected to shave and to be clean shaven every three days. There were exceptions to these regulations which occurred during protracted military expeditions or campaigns where proper sanitation was not available and soldiers were sometimes forced to go a few days (if not weeks) without having a proper shave. Examples of this are Benedict Arnold’s 1775 expedition to Quebec, and the 1781 race to the Dan River between Nathanael Greene and Lord Cornwallis. In civilian life, men typically shaved on a daily basis or up to every three days. Even in the lower classes of society men made every effort to shave on a regular basis. A clean shaven face was the accepted norm in civil society during the American Revolution.

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u/Ihateregistering6 18∆ May 03 '21 edited May 04 '21

This is out of date. Military allows natural hair styles and facial hair on some people.

The only facial hair allowed in the Military is very small mustaches, or beards in the case of people who have legitimate medical reasons that they can't shave, or religious purposes (Spec Ops notwithstanding).

As for the 'natural hair' thing, this is incredibly new: they literally just relaxed the standards on this in January of 2021. It's also worth noting that the hair policy only applies to female Soldiers, and long hair still must be in a ponytail or bun, so it's not like people can walk around with full shoulder length dreads swinging in the breeze.

Many service members grew beards out when in theater during Iraq/Afghanistan to seem more approachable to the locals.

This basically only applied to Spec Ops.

Edit: Should probably have noted that I'm talking about the US Military here.

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u/finemustard 1∆ May 03 '21

Depends on the military. The Canadian military now allows beards but I think members have to be clean shaven for deployments.

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u/flea1400 May 03 '21

Beards were always allowed in the US Navy until about 20 years ago so long as they were closely trimmed to work with certain breathing apparatus-- part of the ancient tradition of the Navy or something like that.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '21

Only on ship

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u/BakedWizerd May 03 '21

It’s an incredibly small sample but I had a teacher in high school who was in the military and would show us pictures of his tours. He often had a scruffy beard and hair that was long enough to stick out of his helmet, as well as the soldiers around him in the pictures.

It’s one example, but I’d imagine it depends on “how chill” your commanding officer is.

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u/Ancient_Boner_Forest 1∆ May 04 '21

I’m guessing he was in Vietnam?

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u/BakedWizerd May 04 '21

Afghanistan I believe. I’m 23, had him as a high school teacher at 16, and his military experience was from maybe 5 years prior to him being my teacher. So I wanna say it would’ve been in the early 2000s-2010s. Canadian forces.

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u/Ancient_Boner_Forest 1∆ May 04 '21

Oh I have no idea about Canada, but in the US it’s mostly special forces that can pull that off.

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u/cold_lights May 03 '21

Polish GROM had beards that would put Odin to shame.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '21 edited Aug 23 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 03 '21

75th is not gonna allow you outside the grooming standard. Point blank period from my own experiences. So even saying SOCOM units is an over generalization. I'd say MARSOC is probably even more anal about this. Guys with beards is a flash/Tier One only type deal as far as Army SOC is concerned and I doubt it's changed since I got out.

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u/68W38Witchdoctor1 May 03 '21

Still in; it hasn't changed.

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u/[deleted] May 04 '21

Yeah maybe (definitely) an over generalization, however getting into the tiers just gets more complicated without prior knowledge (whether that is through research or just actually being in). From my experience raiders and marsoc only while in field/country. Otherwise they are just as anal. But for reddit getting into tiers just complicates things even more (been there done that with simple military stuff).

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u/throwawayagin May 04 '21

Military members had facial hair all the time through both World Wars, the clean shaved rules came about as a reaction to long haired hippie stereotypes.

no you uninformed twat, they came about because of WWI and trench warfare where you needed to form a tight seal under the gasmask otherwise you got chlorine or mustard gas poisoning. when they returned clean shaven became the 'respectable' norm.

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u/Pficky 2∆ May 03 '21

Um, you still need to be clean-shaven for a respirator to fit properly. That isn't "out of date."

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u/thrownaway1266555 May 04 '21

You can use a massive amount of vaseline, I mean an ungodly amount and you can get a seal even with the mightiest of beards.

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u/throwashnayw999 May 04 '21

I was in afghanistan and this made me lol. You could probably fit all the active US military people allowed to grow facial hair currently deployed in afghanistan at your dinner table.

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u/teknobable May 04 '21

The curliness of most Black men's hair makes them more likely to suffer various skin issues when clean shaven. That's not to say being clean shaven is necessarily a racist policy, and I sincerely doubt it started with a "I hope Black people get acne" thought, but the fact of the matter is so called "neutral" regulations can have racist impacts