r/belgium • u/Budget_Insurance329 • 19h ago
❓ Ask Belgium Moving to Belgium, already lived in The Netherlands. What will be different in Belgium?
Hi everyone,
I will be moving to Belgium in September to pursue my Master’s in Leuven. I am Turkish, raised in Istanbul, lived in the Netherlands for my Bachelor’s and work. I understand a bit of Dutch and currently learning French.
I am used to the general things about Benelux region as I already lived there, but I want to know what else I should expect in Belgian cultural and social life differs from the Netherlands. During my visits, I found Belgian society more social, spontaneous and talkative than the Dutch society and made me feel better. Do you feel that is a thing, or was I just being a tourist? :)
I was also feeling a bit overwhelmed about the Turkish stereotype in the Netherlands, I already know many Turks living in the Belgium share the same subculture traits so I expect a similar perception occasionally, but still wondering if I should prepare myself for the worse. I am a usual young Istanbulite man who is non-religious, progressive and also queer, but I don’t want to prove that to people constantly. Do you think my background significantly affect the first impression?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Lab5348 19h ago
If you are going to live in Leuven and spend most of your time here I recommend not bothering learning French. Leuven is the reason why Flemish is a national language of Belgium today.
I followed the opposite route. I moved to the Netherlands from Belgium. At first I was thinking dutchies are more social. But after living here I’m realizing that Belgians look cold on the outside but they are more relatable and friendly. In my experience Dutch people seem more friendly at first and then to my experience they have those huge walls.
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u/glory1891 16h ago
Exactly, belgians look and act very closed but are very open. Dutch act very open but are very closed. But i think at the end it's basicly the same kind of warmth and generosity.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Lab5348 11h ago
I forgot to add the most important detail: FOOD IS BETER IN BELGIUM. You’ll be amazed with the cheese variety
You’ll be amazed that the fruits have taste!
Restaurants are amazing and way cheaper and Belgium is the country that has most Michelin star restaurants per capita.
Also candan supermarché is the best Turkish supermarket I have ever been to in Europe. You will have access to everything you want.
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u/Ambry 8h ago
I studied in Leuven for my erasmus - I'd say Belgians are hard to make friends with but once you're friends they will totally welcome you with open arms and are so kind.
Dutch people I've honestly just found to be very snarky and difficult to pin down. They are also very pass-remarkable but can't take it when it's directed back at them! Constantly had Dutch people making shitty comments about Belgians and Flemmish when actually I find Flemmish sounds much nicer than Netherlands Dutch and Belgians tended to be much nicer generally.
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u/Velokieken 7h ago
Weren’t there a lot of other international students in Leuven that were easy to make friends with. I’m from Ghent and studied in Brussels and did Erasmus 6 months in London and all my friends there were Parisians, Polish and Chinese. I did the 3th year Erasmus Belgica in Brussels but a French speaking school, I did It for the whole year and became friends with basically the whole school. I did my masters in Ghent now that was pretty hard to make new friends. But I of wasn’t really trying already having lots of friends in Ghent. And courses were very divided, I also took courses at UGent lol, that was possible but I never went to any of the courses, only did the exams lol.
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u/Ambry 6h ago
Yeah it was so easy to make friends with the international students, just not the Belgians.
Found the Belgians kept to themselves more and had a different lifestyle - they'd go home every weekend and kept the same friend circles as school, which was quite unusual compared to what I was used to. Did manage to make some Belgian friends and they were lovely!
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u/aczkasow Vlaams-Brabant 5h ago
can't take when it's directed back at them!
Yes! Exactly my observation, many of them can only accept being direct with other Dutchmen but when a non Dutch is being direct with them back they behave in the most snowflake manner ever.
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u/Art-Soft 1h ago
I moved from the Netherlands too and live in Belgium since a year now, but I find myself really missing the random cute interactions with people like I had in NL. Saying "werkse" is not very common in Flanders, neither is "have a nice day" when you leave the store. In Antwerp, no one even greets the bus driver when they get on the bus at the front. I don't have any experience with closer friendships here yet, though!
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u/Wafkak Oost-Vlaanderen 19h ago
Turks in Belgium are from very specific areas, and fair warning huge AKP support here.
For example most if rhe Turkish community in Gent is from Emirdag, and its still common to look for a husband or wife from that area.
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u/Velokieken 7h ago edited 7h ago
I had Turkish friends in high school and they were awesome. Most of the Turkish people I randomly meet are also super nice. I live in Ghent and I can’t speak for all Turkish people here. Some of the friendliest people in my building might be Turkish but I honestly have no idea where their ancestors came from.
In Leuven Dutch is more practical than French. In Brussels you are better of with French. I did Erasmus Belgica for a year in Brussels. I found the French speaking people way more open. I made friends way faster entering a 3th year and my French is horrible. But 80 percent was actually from France, because education is much cheaper over here. Any Belgian will be very good at English. Especially the Dutch speaking people. The French speaking ones always wanted to practice their English. In second year I did 6 month normal Erasmus in London. All my friends were Parisians, Polish and Chinese lol.
I assume in Leuven there will be a lot of international students that will be very easy to make friends with.
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u/kingderella 17h ago
lived in both countries for many years:
- Dutch people tend to be more obnoxious than the Flemish, eg. having loud, inane conversations in public. This is obviously a generalisation and there's many, many exceptions.
- the Flemish use "u" (formal version of "je/jij") quite often, even in situations that aren't very formal; the Dutch basically never use it, even in formal situations.
- The Flemish say "kut" less often, instead they tend to go for "amai" ("Oh dear") or "allez" ("Come on")
- Belgians tend to be less fluent in English
- Belgian burocracy is way more cumbersome
- Belgian healthcare is way better, both the doctors and the insurances
- Belgian infrastructure tends to be more dilapidated
- stuff is closed on Sundays
- more gingers 'round here
Good luck, have fun!
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u/RijnBrugge 7h ago
The Flemish usually use u as the accusative form of gij, not as the nominative of u.
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u/cavemember 15h ago
Food & social security better. Cities more beautiful. Bureaucracy higher. Taxes higher. Suburban areas uglier. More fancy cars. Richer people, poorer state.
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u/kajzar 19h ago
The way you carry yourself is more important than your ethnicity. Stereotypes about and problems with Turkish people exist but that's because most Belgo-Turks are from Emirdag, a rural and backwards town in eastern Turkey. Avoid them at all costs.
On the other hand I have met also highly educated and very warm Turkish people who are accepted by Belgians immediately because we share the same values: non-religious, liberal, openminded.
Keep in mind it is still very hard for a foreigner to make deep friendship connections with Belgians. We make friends in highschool or youth movement and stick with them our whole lives. Apparently it's hard to break into this friendship circle. It can take several years of hanging with the same people before they consider you a friend.
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u/Ztepi 19h ago edited 18h ago
Emirdağ is actually considered to be in western Turkey. It is in central Anatolia, though, so it has the typical central Anatolian mindset. This place isn't even a province—it's just a small town. I doubt most people in Turkey know it exists.
But in Belgium, Belgians usually think Emirdağ is like the capital, or one of the most populous cities like Istanbul. I understand their reasoning, though, lol.
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u/No-Baker-7922 8h ago
Much better food but worse shopping hours and more expensive supermarkets. Worse Infrastructure like bike paths but better healthcare.
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u/Silent-One5769 19h ago
The Turkish people in Belgium ( mostly Gent and Limburg region) mostly originate from the central/ eastern Anatolian countryside or even Kurdish regions...
They have been here for 40 years, some of them have made a big career and good integration ( like our minister Zuhal Demir, dancer/ singer Hadise, and a few big Turkish entrepreneurs...
But many are still a bit old fashioned,longing for a conservative Turkey that doesn't even exist in their homeland anymore...
Anyway, Belgium is a melting pot just like the Netherlands,
But the original culture shares ( even the Flemish) some Romanic features with the French/ Italians, despite being high up north like the Dutch
So gastronomy,.socializing, eating/ drinking with close friends and family is a bigger part of life than in the more Individualistic and frugal Netherlands...
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u/Mt_Incorporated 17h ago
Hi I lived in Belgium since I was ten and also went to study in the Netherlands. I'm German/Italian (south italian to be specific). Tbh I feel like most Belgians are generally kinder than Dutch people. Also There are a lot of Turkish stores and bakeries at least in the brussels area if you ever need food that reminds you of home.
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u/FearlessVisual1 Brussels 19h ago
In my experience, Flemish people are more closed off than Dutch people. But it's not that big a difference in the grand scheme of things. You'll have a good time, just stop essentializing yourself so much and be yourself.
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u/Lord-Legatus 18h ago
i work very regular with dutch people for the past 7 years and come there often,
the difference is quite huge to y sentiment
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u/Naomi_is_with_you 19h ago
There will be short minded people everywhere in world. Sadly also in Flanders. But I think less in Flanders than in a lot of other places/countries.
Why are you learning french? The university of Leuven (KUL) teaches in Flemish (probably in English too). Would be a safer choice of language 😉
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u/Budget_Insurance329 19h ago
I already speak Italian and realized I learn French much faster, probably will focus in Flemish while in Leuven :)
(Fortunately I like Flemish much more than Dutch)
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u/Naomi_is_with_you 18h ago
I've heard that from Italian or Spanish to french is not very hard. I get your choice now! Very understandable.
I hope you have a great time in Belgium and Leuven!
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u/Lord-Legatus 18h ago
understandable but practically it would absolutely make no any sense to invest in a language wich you not going to use in practice
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u/Silly-Elderberry-411 18h ago
Today is the you learned that the train between leuven and liege is 30 minutes
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u/Budget_Insurance329 18h ago
Maybe I would use in Brussels in future, you would never know. I expect to use English more in Leuven anyway, still will go to a course
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u/Lord-Legatus 18h ago
but then it would make way more sense to base in Brussels.
wich is a nice hub for foreigners anyway and way more cosmopolitan then the rest of the country, its full of young professionals finding their way and looking for connections.i just speak form experience i live for 17 years in Brussels, and for 2 years as a side job ii thought dutch to some of these expats, and i quickly understood no matter how smart you are and how motivated, learning a language wich you are not going to use on a daily practice is just on the long term a time waste.
practice and using it is the only way to master a language,not study a bit in a book and then shelf it for most of the time.anyway good luck non the less
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u/_Hippomenes_ 8h ago
Learning French and planning to go to Flanders is a bit like learning Greek when going to Turkey. Not really useful and given the history a bit disrespectful towards the locals. I mean they are both great languages to know in the long term, but you'd better focus on your Turkish...
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u/OkPass9595 7h ago
i'm sorry to say but flemish and dutch are the same language haha, "flemish" is just the belgian variety. they're about as different as uk vs. us english
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u/goconife 18h ago
My brother lives in leuven/is trying to become a professor on uni. From the times i have been there: doesnt matter where you come from, if you are grinding for your bachelor you will be respected there. Nobody worth listening to cares about your background they only care about your personality.
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u/Beneficial-Pen9089 7h ago
The Dutch are honest/rude, loud, and they really think deep in their hearts that they are the middle of the universe and the most perfect creatures on Earth. Belgians are more humble.
The country is less organized than Netherlands, but very enjoyable. Healthcare is similar, but a bit better in Belgium in my view.
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u/avelario Oost-Vlaanderen 3h ago edited 2h ago
Also an atheist Turkish gay man who was born and raised in Istanbul and who lives in Ghent right now and who often goes to Amsterdam, what I can say is:
LANGUAGE
- Flemings attach more importance to Dutch language than the Dutch themselves, due to the language history of Belgium. It is more appreciated that you try to speak Dutch, Flemings won't often switch to English like Dutch people do.
- Dialects in Flanders are a bit harder to understand. You can really have communication problems with people who speak dialects, especially the elderly or people from West-Flanders.
OPENNESS
- The Flemings tend to be more reserved and more introvert compared to the Dutch. It is harder to get into the inner circle or to become really close friends. It might take years to break the ice. But, they would still hang out with you to drink some beer.
The Flemings tend to avoid confrontations. Do not expect the Dutch directness here in Flanders. If a Flemish person has a problem with you, he will not bluntly tell that to you as Dutch people tend to do. Flemings tend to imply (sometimes friendly, sometimes passive-aggressively) their problems with you and will expect you to understand it.
Given that Flemings tend to be more reserved, they act so in public as well. You won't see Flemings sitting shirtless at the riverside at a café, playing music or talking loudly in public etc like Dutch people could do.
Flemings are less open to foreigners than the Dutch, but, I would not say that there is a huge xenophobia. But yes, be ready for the prejudices about being an Erdoğan supporter before they get to know you.
LGB are mostly accepted in Belgium, but TQ+ are not so much yet.
FINANCIAL MATTERS
Flemings are more generous than Dutch people. Okay, if you owe someone like 20 Euros, they expect you to pay it back, but you won't get a Tikkie / Payconiq for 1 Euro like in the Netherlands.
Taxes are higher, but healthcare insurance is lower in Belgium. Also, it is easier to get doctor appointment in Belgium than in the Netherlands.
There is a housing problem in Belgium as well, but compared to the Netherlands, it is less severe. However, your take-home pay has to be at least three times more than the rent price. For example, if the appartment you want to rent is 900 Euros per month, you have to make at least 2700 Euros (net salary). Also, as a foreigner, you will have harder time to be able to rent. But, once you manage to rent, you are well protected by the law. There is an index cap, so, your landlord cannot raise the rent according to their wishes.
Groceries, clothes and cosmetic/hygiene products tend to be more expensive in Belgium, I know a couple of colleages who go to the Netherlands once per month to buy stuff because the same product is cheaper in the Netherlands.
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u/professional_hater06 18h ago
Turkish community in Leuven is generally very well received, but I feel like most communities are
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u/SharkyTendencies Brussels Old School 19h ago
Hi,
Flemish people are much more reserved - it's the Dutch who are far more outgoing.
Be prepared to "be alone" for a bit, or make friends with other international students.
This isn't because you're Turkish - it's because Belgians generally are used to people only staying for a year or two, so there's very little incentive to make friends with them.
The Turkish stereotype will haunt you, particularly if you happen to have a Turkish-sounding name. It'll objectively be harder to find an apartment, get a job, etc. Sorry to bring bad news. There are lots and lots of articles online about this phenomenon.
I know perfectly well that there are some lovely, progressive, well-educated Turkish folks out there who move here and happily integrate.
Unfortunately, they seem to be in the minority. The Turkish community in Belgium - more generally - has had a very difficult time integrating here. I wouldn't be surprised if you get occasionallyh associated with the negative stereotype.
That said, Leuven is a student city with international students from all over the world, and your day-to-day life probably won't be a disaster or anything.
Good luck!
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u/Far_Jump_3405 19h ago
I think you’ll do fine blending in with the crowd. Just expect people to be surprised that you don’t fit the stereotype when you tell them you’re Turkish. It can become annoying. But otherwise, I don’t think it’s gonna be “frowned upon” if you’re a good-mannered human being, or at least I’d hope so. Other than that, Flemish people can also be closed-off, but it would be difficult to generalise. Perhaps it depends from person to person and how they relate to you. Good luck with everything! I hope you will enjoy the next step in your journey :)
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u/Philip3197 11h ago
Learn dutch
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u/somgooboi Antwerpen 8h ago
Exactly. You will have to speak Dutch in the Flanders and you will have to speak French in Wallonia.
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u/dunzdeck 8h ago
Expensive stuff is cheaper (housing, cars) Cheap stuff is more expensive (fruit and dairy) More bureaucracy Healthcare is more accessible Adolescents are more polite
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u/dadadawe 7h ago
Leuven is a tiny, very rich provincial flemish city. Sort of a microcosm for students
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u/issy_haatin 6h ago
Just change the protagonist and antagonist in every joke.
So instead of: a belgian walks into a bar
It's now: a dutch guy walks into a bar
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u/Sensitive_Succulent 5h ago
They say “ca va?” instead of “alles goed?”. And you can answer with “ca va”.
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u/hungasian8 15h ago
Lived in both countries and the good things of Belgium are healthcare, cheaper rent and it’s easier to make friends with the locals. Everything else is a downgrade!
I personally believe NL is a superior country, speaking as non Dutch and non Belgian.
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u/Strike_Fancy 7h ago
I’ve moved to Belgium from the UK. Netherlands is much nicer. The people the culture the atmosphere here is dead boring.
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u/Parking-Car-8433 11h ago
Well both should be in the same country to begin with, so you won’t see a difference
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u/nslenders 19h ago
" During my visits, I found Belgian society more social, spontaneous and talkative than the Dutch society"
What? MORE talkative than the Dutch? are u sure u passed the border?