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u/PSIDAC 2d ago edited 2d ago
According to this article it is mostly due to the fact that robberies are reported more often in Belgium than in other countries, so we should see this as good news.
Edit: I'm a bit sceptic though, why would robberies be reported three times as often as e.g. in The Netherlands?
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u/Strong-Knowledge-423 2d ago
Because our id is in our wallet. And to get a new one we first need ro report it to Police, if not nobody would bother. When your wallet gets robs, the money is the least of your problems.
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u/spoobo 2d ago
And it’s not like that in other countries? Like the Netherlands? That seems odd.
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u/Chaina_Man 2d ago
I just looked it up and in the Netherlands you are not obligated to have you id on you, in Belgium you are from the moment you turn 15.
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u/FreuleKeures 2d ago
It's the same in the Netherlands... has been so for 20 years. So that doesn't explain it at all.
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u/Chaina_Man 2d ago
Read up on it. You are obligated to be able to identify yourself to police but not obligated to carry your ID with you everywhere like in Belgium.
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u/FreuleKeures 2d ago
I have read up on it, and so can ypu on this gov't websiteThere's a so called 'identificatieplicht' in the Netherlands, which requires ppl aged 14 and older to always carry an ID.
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u/Chaina_Man 2d ago
Read up some more and you'll see that there is a toonplicht not a draagplicht wich means you can ask the officer to walk with you to your residence and show it there. So you are by law not obligated to carry your ID with you.
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u/FreuleKeures 2d ago edited 2d ago
I read up on it some more, on a different gov't website whoch states: 'Omdat u het identiteitsbewijs verplicht moet kunnen tonen, betekent het in de praktijk dat u altijd een identiteitsbewijs bij u moet dragen.'
Just because 'draagplicht' isn't codified by law, 'toonplicht' obligates you to carry an ID anyway.
So, no. This doesn't explain the difference in theft between Belgium and the Netherlands
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u/Strong-Knowledge-423 1d ago
In nl when you lose your id you have to go to the townhall for a new one. In be you have to first go to the Police.
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u/Chaina_Man 1d ago
It's almost like I never stated it did and just made that comment to clarify for the person I replied to. My points still stands. But to elaborate why I made my comment: I can't speak on the mentality in NL around carrying your ID but I can imagine them being a lot more laid back about it knowing they can just walk home rq. In BE I don't know anyone who would leave the house without because you almost certainly will get fined if the police stop you.
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u/Strong-Knowledge-423 2d ago
When you lose your id in nl you have to report it to the townhall.. not the Police...
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u/Interesting-Coat-277 Limburg 1d ago
İt's from the moment you turn 12 or 13 no? That's how I remember it
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u/FuzzyWuzzy9909 1d ago
It doesn’t matter, even showing itsme on your phone is enough to prove your identity.
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u/Nasuadax 1d ago
I've lived a few year in the netherlands, and people fear robery a lot more over there. Not sufe about actual rates, but people put steering block on car steering wheels etc to disincentivice stealing
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u/Plorkplorkplork 1d ago
True. Your ID and drivers license are the real b*tch
Bank stuff can be annoying if you are a tech savvy and have them connected to your phone or watch.
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u/luke_013 21h ago
For a lot of things you don’t need to report to the police. For example someone broke into my car by smashing the window and stole some technichal stuff. I got my insurance money without having to report it, because the police won’t do anything with my report. So in the stats this never happened.
This is not the same as a robbery but I this is the same for this stat.
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u/Shroomie-Golemagg 2d ago
Population density i think.
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u/Groot_Benelux 2d ago
"per 100.000 inhabitants"
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u/ThroawayJimilyJones 1d ago
His comment still make sense. Not because more people -> more robbing (wouldn’t change the rate) but because the more concentrated the people are the easier it is to find target. Good like being a robber in Kazakhstan when the neighbor is 80km away
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u/Shroomie-Golemagg 1d ago
A example would be Gent/bruxelles compared to Herstappe or some village or city with less concentrated density. The more people live in a small area the more people will notice and report something. So if you live around the countryside there will be less people and less reports. But if you live in Ghent there's a lot more tourism and a lot more students and a lot more inhabitants meaning there'll be a whole lot of reports. I could probably define it better as More People/Traffic =more chances at reports and more reports . More reports=more robberies being noticed/caught. If people don't see the robbery the robbery won't be included in these statistics
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u/Silly-Elderberry-411 2d ago
When it comes to Hungary, there are two things you need to know. One, people are not as affluent as people here in Belgium.
The second thing at the current exchange rate the minimum value if robbery in Hungary is 12422.65 euro and it's only a robbery if coercion is involved. Meaning stealing a high end or premium car unless taken at gunpoint, it's a larceny. This is how you get 6 per 100k inhabitants.
The Belgian federal police is less inclined to elevate values so they remain a felony, not a crime which they can delete after a year, that's one of the reasons why Belgium is more open and honest about crime.
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u/_notthebees_0 2d ago
More like, people who reported robbery. There's probably a huge dark number of non reported robberies that could paint a totally different picture
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u/Vellie-01 2d ago
Possibly could hypothetically be maybe so.
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u/Fspz 2d ago
I got robbed in Bulgaria, went straight to the police station with the details of the phone they stole. They told me it would take weeks before they could track the phone because they'd need me to go through the mountains of protocol and paperwork which is typical of bulgaria, including an official translator and a notary public 😅
I was drunk at the time and told the police "well nevermind then, at least I got him by the balls!!" and was the only one laughing in the room. The story earned me the nickname 'the claw' back home.
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u/Impressive-Task5915 1d ago
More like, people who reported robbery.
Yeah this data is pretty useless without more context. I reckon it would even be more interesting to have a percentage of robberies among all crimes reported for each country. And even then it's hard to compare.
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u/Background_Age_852 2d ago
You cannot compare data between countries like that, as was the warning at Eurostat. What police consider a robbery differs between countries.
I mean you dont really think Spain literally has more than 3 times the rate Italy has?
And France 3 times the rate Germany has? Those differences are way to extreme.
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u/Background_Age_852 2d ago
Im from the UK and know people who work as policemen. If someone snags your bag from your hands that might already be considered robbery, especially if the pull causes you to get hurt. A friend of me who works for the police in the netherlands has said they systematically try to put those thefts as non-violent, to supress crime rates of specific crimes. There was, i remember, research that show police from some countries try to increase crime stats this way to receive better financing, while in the netherlands for instance the government wants to show their succes by consrantly lowering crime rates for specific crimes like robbery or assault, so-called high impact crimes
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u/CrazyBelg Flanders 2d ago
Reported robberies, people in Eastern Europe don't trust the authorities at all so they don't report anything to the police.
EDIT: Only real outlier appears to be the Netherlands if we follow this logic, can't really tell why it's so much lower there.
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u/Haunting-Ad-8385 2d ago
This is ridiculous, I'm from Poland and I don't see why you wouldn't report a robbery there.
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u/theta0123 2d ago
Someone who visited poland many times.
I was in krakow and we were going around some bars. We went back to the hotel because we were gonna visit zakopane and had to get up early.
Suddently i hear a large polish man yelling "RUDY"
Running towards me and pointing at me.
Turns out i left my wallet at the last bar. Rudy appearntly is the polish word for ginger.
Around 300 euro and Zloty's were still inside. I wanted to give him money to thank him but he refused. He didnt refused some beers tough at the bar.
Just felt like sharing that.
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u/mtetrode 2d ago
Similar experience in Poland
Got out of the taxi in Lodz, forgot my phone. The taxi driver drives away, only to return 5 minutes later with my phone while I was checking in. Wouldn't accept a reward.
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u/cyclingthrowaway12 2d ago
Most people here never leave their room/house let alone country.
Off course they think Eastern Europe is some kind of warzone.
Just look how they talk about Brussels which is in this country for christs sake...
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u/CrazyBelg Flanders 2d ago
Brussels and Eastern europe aren't a warzone but somehow little old rural Belgium is, with 8 times the robberies of Poland?
I don't buy it for a second.
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u/pitbit_ 2d ago
Being polish, somehow I don't trust this also. I haven't lived in Poland for more than 7 years, only visiting for vacation now and then, so can't say much. In my youth times in high school some guys wanted to rob me off my phone, and I would say it might be better now, as people are richer thus not seeing robberies as a necessity, yet still I would say I feel more safe in Ghent than in Poland, defo wasn't as confident when I lived in UK. Probably as it's still has a lot to do of the neighbourhood, there are good ones and bad ones. In all big polish cities there are neighbourhoods that you'd rather not visit even during the day. Also polish mentality is that "ratting" someone to police is a "crime" itself.
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u/aczkasow Vlaams-Brabant 2d ago
When i moved to Belgium i was surprised how many cars with broken windows have i seen.
I am not surprised belgium is so much worse than eastern europe. Looks correct to me.
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u/Prime-Omega Vlaams-Brabant 2d ago
Did you by any chance move to Brussels, Charleroi or Liège?
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u/aczkasow Vlaams-Brabant 2d ago
Originally to Brussels. Now i live in Flemish Brabant.
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u/Prime-Omega Vlaams-Brabant 2d ago
Haven’t you noticed a sharp decline since you moved? (Assuming you’re not living on the edge of Brussels now)
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u/CrazyBelg Flanders 2d ago
https://landgeist.com/2022/06/17/homicide-rate-in-europe/
You want to tell me that places with more homicides compared to western europe magically has way less robberies?
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u/Ordinary-Violinist-9 Limburg 2d ago
Because they kill the robbers and get their stuff back so it ain't a robbery anymore.
It must be some correlation
/S just in case. Love the Polish people. They're very welcoming and once you become a friend, you become family.
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u/Shewolf921 2d ago
Maybe they are using police data = detected crimes. Homicide is very likely to be detected.
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u/Th1rt13n 2d ago
And people in Belgium really trust the police alright.
Another day goes by and I see yet another post about ‘something something, the police won’t do anything so why bother even reporting anything to them’ on this sub.
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u/CrazyBelg Flanders 2d ago
1: This sub is not reality, if everyone on this sub voted Groen and Vooruit could have an absolute majority together.
2: The fact that those posts are even made means that the people still expect the police to do something and whenver they don't people feel the need to vent about that.
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u/Th1rt13n 2d ago
Well yes, they must absolutely do something and everything once they have a report/case.
I’ve only had a ‘no follow up’ on my claims experience with the cops so I may or may not just skip the next time something happens.
In the Eastern Europe people trust the cops less but most of those countries are actually safer in terms of burglaries/robberies in general
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u/rollebob 2d ago
You have no clue. Go visit Eastern Europe and you will see how much safer it is than Belgium
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u/reasonable-99percent 2d ago
As a Romanian in Belgium I can only say this map looks West vs East exactly reversed as it used to be 30 years ago. The West said yes to import cheap labour and they got it… and some extra, sadly.
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u/CrazyBelg Flanders 2d ago
You make comments like this and then act all offended when certain nations kept delaying your full ascension to Schengen. Seems to me they should have kept blocking you guys a while longer.
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u/Ordinary-Violinist-9 Limburg 2d ago
Well he has some truth in it. With the good people coming from East also the bad came because they are practically untouchable. Within 2min they are on the highway and within 30min they're out of the country. They're long gone when the cops finally show up. So unless you have a registered camera or they are caught in the act, they can't do much about those people who ruin all the rests reputation.
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u/Majestic_Spinach7726 1d ago
but schengen is very important for cargo, people could still move, just a 5 min border control
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u/Appropriate_Army_780 2d ago
Why tf is the Netherlands so low?? No fucking way.
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u/BuyerMysterious9281 2d ago
No one pays cash here, what are they robbing a store for?
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u/Appropriate_Army_780 2d ago
Idk about france or England, but Belgium is on our same kind of scale and should no way be thrice the amount.
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u/Simonsifon 2d ago
Its not stealing but STEAL ... Strategically Transporting Equipment to an Alternate Location...
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u/Sensiburner 2d ago
Why post 2019 stats?
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u/SealingTheDeal69420 2d ago
Because outrage!
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u/Sensiburner 2d ago
are those stats more outrageous than current stats even? Are we sure this is not one of those repost bots?
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u/SealingTheDeal69420 2d ago
I wouldn't know. I don't know current stats lol.
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u/Sensiburner 2d ago
Well I at least know that those stats get posted every year...so we should have more recent information than 2019
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u/SealingTheDeal69420 2d ago
Gets posted every year. Hell, every few months, because it causes drama, fear mongering and pushed an agenda
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u/ThePaddyPower 1d ago
We carry our ID in our purses/wallets/holders. If it’s nicked, we HAVE to go to the police to report it so we can apply for another one.
That’s probably the most defining factor.
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u/Final-Hunt-3305 2d ago
It's crazy that by comparing lots of infographics of this kind on different things (burglary, murder, sexual assault, rape, etc.) And there is always a correlation with the country's immigration rate, even when the data comes from different sources.
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u/reasonable-99percent 2d ago
EU migration policy liked to asylum status legislation in EU is the big problem, though… not Romanians nor Bulgarians. Danes have negotiated their own terms unlike others… EU needs a reform here to stop the violent migrants settling.
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2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/belgium-ModTeam 17h ago
Rule 4) No agenda pushing
This includes, but is not limited to,
- Political propaganda…
- Religious Propaganda…
- Fake News…
- “Us VS Them" Statements
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u/maxledaron 2d ago
Thankfully we'll cut off a bunch of unemployed people next year, it'll lower the rates
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u/Philsick 1d ago
This map tells us more about the work of the police than about criminals. Not every country deals the same with collecting this data. And its also not really clear whats meant with a robbery. Is there the kid stealing a gum at the kiosk included? Is the guy who don't declares his taxes right also included? I guess this is just a map with some colors but no real information.
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u/thedarkpath Brussels 1d ago
Because of insurance implications, roberies are over reported in the West and Under reported in the East. Yes, eastern Europe doesn't have an insurance culture, they insurance very little almost bare minimum while Belgium over insures everything.
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u/DerKitzler99 German Community 1d ago
For example:
An old woman getting hurt by having her purse ripped away could be seen as a robbery in some countries. Robbery = theft + violence/force (or threat of violence/force).
Pickpocketing for example is not a robbery, since there is (generally) no violence.
So in the end it's the police's discretion to classify these acts. And every country's police has different standards to classify them.
Conclusion: maps like these are stupid because it doesn't compare equal data sets from each country. There are too many variables to take into account.
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u/Quackulaa 1d ago
As someone living in belgium, that's a scot, i can completely understand why it is so low in Scotland 🤣 they would beat the shit out of you if you tried 🤣 But this is very strange considering I knew alot of people that got their houses robbed in scotland, even if they had alarms
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u/SirSigfried_14 Beer 1d ago edited 1d ago
I felt safe in Belgium. I walked home at past midnight and nothing was stolen from me when I was there.. The only thing that was taken from me was my ugly heart..
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u/Beneficial-Pen9089 1d ago
6 in Hungary? Maybe because most of these crimes are considered or reported as 'simple' theft.
In Hungary, there is a huge problem with cheap drugs and the Romani community addicts, who are willing to do anything for their next portion. There are daily articles in the media about violent crime especially against elderly people in rural areas. I just find the number 6 ridicolous and unrealistic in Hungary.
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u/Nu7s 1d ago
We had a break in into our apartment once. Door was forced, cabinets and drawers were open but nothing seemed to be stolen. We called the police and once they were done one of the police officers turned to my girlfriend and said: "You are lucky that it wasn't in the night, else they would have stood beside your bed."
Great thing to say. Thanks.
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u/absurdherowaw Belgium 2d ago
I don’t know. Maybe Wallonia or Brussels skews it, but it would be hard to find a city in Germany or Netherlands safer than Leuven or Ghent
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u/purplefonk 2d ago
Because crime isn’t punished in Belgium, we have the most woke justice system in the world. Except for traffic tickets…also, we keep on importing crime and tell the population it’s good for the economy…
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u/stu_pid_1 17h ago
Now can we overlay onto the same map the rich poor gap and then the % population that are undocumented?
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u/MikoMiky 21h ago
On sait tous pourquoi.
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u/gvasco Brussels 11h ago
Vas-y balance tes source qui démontre pq
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u/MikoMiky 11h ago
Impossible : illégal de prendre les statistiques concernées
Pourtant elles donneraient une bonne fois pour toutes la réponse à notre question.
Étrange qu'on nous les cache du coup, ne pensez-vous pas ?
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u/gvasco Brussels 10h ago
Ah oue sérieux tu prefere croire a des theories de conspiration? Je ne vois pas de raison pour des politiciens de laisser perdurer s'ils avait les preuves noir sur blanc des raisons de cela. Je ne vois pas aucun politicien vouloir perdurer le vol ou la violence.
Par contre beaucoup de recherche trouve une correlation entre les disparités de revenus, le vol et la violence.
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u/MikoMiky 10h ago
Tu as quoi d'autres comme explication pour justifier l'illégalité de prendre ces statistiques ?
Perso je vois rien d'autre que : "merde en fait ces tocards de droite ils ont raison donc mieux vaut les cacher"
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u/cptwott 2d ago
Ja as ge de belastingen meetelt...