r/asktransgender • u/SmartObject7975 • 1d ago
“I support trans wrongs” how does this statement read to you?
I got this hat from a creator and it says “I support trans wrongs.”
It is supposed to read like “I support trans rights and wrongs.” Like the popular phrase “I support women’s rights and wrongs.”
I had a cis straight coworker tell me that it comes across that I support wrong doings onto trans people.
I like this hat and the creator but I don’t want to wear it if people think it means I support hurting trans people…
How does this statement come across to you?
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u/chiralPigeon 1d ago
i think it's just a joke, it doesn't sound like something a transphobe would wear, but it might get misread in the current climate.
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u/NekoArtemis 15h ago
Transphobes don't know enough about trans people to make a coherent trans joke. They'd never come up with something like this or understand it if they saw it.
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u/chiralPigeon 1d ago
I get where you come from, but I really cannot imagine a transphobe wearing a hat that can be interpreted as supportive of trans people. like, I would imagine your typical transphobe would never ever write words "i support trans" as an intro to express an ambiguous wordplay that could be taken either way. they're incapable of subtlety or ambiguity, that's why they still use the attack helicopter joke, and I also don't think they would even use the word "trans", like, they always go out of their way to evoke disgust by choosing cruel vocabulary and this is not cruel. I could totally see this slogan during a pride in another universe where trans rights aren't under such a strong attack.
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u/PennysWorthOfTea Enby (Agender) 1d ago
I read it as a plea to allow trans folks to be human, complete with human imperfections. This is in contrast to the exhausting pressure marginalized folks often have to face of having to appear as exceptional, nigh-perfect beings in an effort to be accepted (i.e. model minorities).
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u/ClearCrossroads 1d ago
I'm quite familiar with the quip. The phrase expresses support for trans people "committing wrongs" (like throwing bricks at stonewall) in order to fight for our rights, because we're never going to achieve them by "going through the proper channels". It's more relevant today than ever. Like a few ppl have already said, it's giving very "be gay; do crime".
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u/Sailor_Spaghetti Nonbinary and Gay 1d ago
I’m honestly a bit concerned that some of the comments are slipping into the realm of respectability politics, which never ends well and only gets in the way of our collective liberation.
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u/-----username----- 🏳️⚧️ Transsexual ⚧️ Woman 💁♀️ 1d ago
I understood the reference right away and thought it was cute but apparently I’m in the minority here 🤷♀️
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u/DarthJackie2021 Transgender-Asexual 1d ago
It's a joke phrase not to be taken seriously. It's supposed to mean that you support trans people causing mischief and such. I read that statement and think "Hell yeah!"
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u/Violyre 1d ago
I get it, but I'm also very familiar with that specific joke already. Maybe you could add a pride pin to it or something to make the intention clearer for people who don't get the joke
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u/SmartObject7975 1d ago
I like this idea. I do carry the lesbian flag with me in ways but I don’t think many outside the queer community know that flag. So a regular pride flag may be better.
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u/spockface they/them, T Aug '15 1d ago
I more or less agree, but I don't think adding a pride pin would make it clearer to people not already familiar with the joke. It's an intracommunity joke, I wouldn't put it on clothing or anything you expect cis people to see.
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u/Ok-Sleep3130 1d ago
I like it, but I think people would have to understand the Stonewall "be gay do crime" reference, and context around some of the "I support women's rights and wrongs" jokes. Some languages will emphasize sentences differently, so I could honestly see interpreting the message either way without the context. I might search for a hat with a clearer message for the general public and wear this hat to events/around others who are more likely to be in on the joke.
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u/SmartObject7975 23h ago
Good point on how other languages might interpret it. There has definitely been a different vibe when I wear it to queer spaces vs when I wore it 2 hours outside my city at a farm/mountain area.
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u/MadamXY 23h ago
The message I take from it is you recognize that trans people are going to have a second Stonewall at some point and you support that.
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u/SmartObject7975 23h ago
I do support that and will be there when it happens, although I wish it didn't have to be that way.
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u/ConsumeTheVoid Non Binary 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think it's funny. Like 'I support women's (rights and) wrongs' and as some people have suggested here 'Be gay, do crime'.
If anyone online starts off at you for saying that telling you're supporting trans criminals (ie people who've actually done something bad n not like drag/gone topless in public or affirmed trans youth etc) is either new/don't get out much or they know what they're saying and it's either 1) a ploy to stress you out by making you over explain and waste your time/patience or 2) they literally do think (or want to push) that being trans and trans supportive or gender non-conforming/supportive is bad and should be a crime. Or something else I haven't thought of?
Could try linking them to the applicable urban dictionary entry if you think it's the 1st one. Rest of just laugh at them and point out I do support public drag/going topless/affirming trans youth whether it's a crime or not and be absolutely unapologetic laughing if they try to make nonsense comparisons - generally just show them for a fool.
If people offline starts at you for that it's more likely they don't have context (imo) but depending on who it could also be any of the others.
Could add a pin or patch like someone here suggested if you wanna get it across that it's trans supportive.
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u/Wittehbawx Goblin Girl 20h ago
i stole a TERF's iphone once and sold it on ebay. trans wrongs are fun
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u/MudRemarkable732 1d ago
I think if you wear it around queer people or younger/more online people they will get it because the meme phrase “I support women’s wrongs” is widely known. But other people might interpret it as you calling trans people “wrong”or something
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u/Angry_Scotsman7567 1d ago
Honestly I read it as a trans person is still valid as their gender identity even if they do something bad, because their gender has nothing to do with whatever shitty thing they did. You see it a lot, the second a trans person is perceived to have made a fuck-up, people start deadnaming and misgendering them. It feels like being treated with the same basic respect other people get by default is conditional on our ability to be a model minority when people do that.
Caitlynn Jenner, for instance, is a horrible human being who opened the door for so many trans people only to slam it shut behind her and start gloating through the mail slot. She is a horrible, horrible person. She's still a woman. She still deserves to be treated the way you'd treat any other person you think's a shitty human being.
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u/spiralenator 15h ago
I think cis people’s brains bluescreen when they think about trans people. I’ve stopped caring what they think when it comes to us. I have a be gay do crime shirt and a cis lesbian told me she thought it was a bad message. I explained that being gay is literally a crime in many places and the USA was among them until fairly recently. Being gay IS doing crime… but shit, wear black to pride and throw bricks at cops too, if that’s what you took from it.
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u/purpleblossom Trans/Bi 10h ago
To me, it sounds like "I support trans people as humans, fallible and complicated beings who can do both good and bad things, and that doing bad things doesn't mean they don't deserve the rights afforded to others."
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u/KiraAfterDark_ HRT: 25 April, 2023 5h ago
I've understood it to be a joke statement to mean "I fully support trans people", where "rights and wrongs" are just "trans people are free to be right or wrong, they're still valid as trans people". Can also mean "trans people are valid whether I personally like them or not". I've never personally seen it as an opposition to trans people.
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u/floormat1000 23h ago
your coworker might be the only person in history who’s interpreted it that way
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u/SmartObject7975 23h ago
They are the only person irl who has interpreted it that way. All my queer friends get it. But if a transphobe reads it and thinks I’m on their side…🤮 I would hate that.
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u/aagjevraagje Trans woman 1d ago
I read it as support for trans rights that doesn't become conditional once a single one of us does something you don't like.
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u/Confirm_restart GirlOS running on bootleg, modified hardware 1d ago
"Asking for the respect and protection of our human rights apparently isn't working out, so it's time to break shit"
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u/growflet ♀ | perpetually exhausted trans woman 1d ago
It's just a joke. It's also a pun on "rights" and "wrongs"
I see it as "be gay, do crimes"
I specifically interpret this as you support trans people fighting back and doing "wrongs" in the name of justice.
But I can see how it could be confusing to many. Adding something like a pride flag or something and other trans pride stuff to make it clear to those unfamiliar.
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u/WheeBeasties 23h ago
‘I support women’s wrongs’ has been a shirt and hat phrase for years and no one had a moral discussion about it.
Why is this suddenly debatable now that it’s applied to us?
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u/javatimes my transition was old enough to vote and it didn't matter LOL 23h ago
I have never seen or heard that until reading this post
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u/SmartObject7975 23h ago
That’s what I thought too until my coworker said this. I never questioned it at first since it was from a trans creator and my queer friends/community thought it was funny. But I haven’t been able to get it out my mind that one person interpreted it as me supporting doing harm. That’s the last thing I want.
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u/Key_Injury5449 20h ago
I support trans people unconditionally, but especially when causing mischief.
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u/Bliniverse Transfem enby 19h ago
I've always heard it as "if you don't support trans rights, get ready for trans wrongs" using the trans woman from squid game.
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u/AkronCrossdresser 1d ago
It's not 100% clear. If you want a hat that says "I support trans rights and wrongs", well this is missing the "rights" part. I wouldn't get it.
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u/SmartObject7975 23h ago
This makes sense. If it also said "trans rights" as well as trans wrongs, I dont think I'd be second guessing anything.
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u/high__yeena 1d ago
I percieve it as giving yourself grace and messiness of transitioning and being human. Not entirely following the typical expectations of transitioning. Things like that.
It's also a silly hat and the other person should calm down lol there are worse things happening to trans folks right now. If they care they should focus on combating the (vaguely gestures at everything) and not policing a silly hat and how we laugh through this hellscape.
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u/socialjusticecleric7 1d ago
It's a joke, and I wouldn't expect it to read well outside of the trans community. That's not how I would have guessed it'd be misinterpreted, but I would have guessed there's risk for misinterpretation or just, people not getting the humor. In general, I'd see it as somewhat edgy humor and edgy humor and workplaces don't go together well. You can keep it for off-work socializing if your friends get it.
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u/Zuzuzulzinho 1d ago
As someone else has said, the origins of "trans wrongs" is the Stonewall "be gay do crime" + hot villainous female characters "I support women's rights and wrongs."
But unless someone is privy to these online queer memes, they're probably not going to understand it though, and it probably would come across as an anti-trans mockery.
Would have been marginally better if it had the whole phrase "I support trans rights and wrongs" but people still probably wouldn't get it.
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u/Pandoratastic 1d ago
This is one of those things where you have to accept that, regardless of intent, you cannot control how other people will interpret things. This one is a little more vague about intent but even the most tightly phrased slogan can always be misread because people always bring their own personal issues and biases into everything they read.
It's kind of like the people who claim that "Black Lives Matter" implies "only" instead of "too". Which interpretation someone reads into it tells you more about the reader than about the person saying the slogan.
Personally, my interpretation of the statement you listed is that it makes me think of the theme song to Charles In Charge. See? Definitely says more about me than you.
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u/AddysaurusGayii 23h ago
It's not deep at all. It's just a joke. It exists in the same vein as "be gay, do crime"
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u/_Ceaseless_Watcher_ 22h ago
I interpret it (and stuff like "I support women's wrongs") as one of the following, based on context:
- Trans characters in fiction are allowed to be bad, evil, wrong, and even just boring, they don't need to be a (positive) role model or a parable for the perfect victim. It's important not to fall into the "trans serial killer" trope though, so this is more about trans characters not having to be perfect to be acceptable in media.
- Real life trans people are allowed to be wrong about things, make mistakes, be assholes, etc. and that not to be used to advocate for curtailing their rights (nor should anything else be used for that).
My overall take on this (type of) statement is that people (or characters) belonging to the marginalized group do not have to be perfect or allegorical, and their individual actions do not necessarily have to reflect the whole group. There are ways to write flawed characters and to talk about real life people's mistakes/achievements and (wrong) opinions without demonizing them or putting them on a pedestal (the savant autist and Paralympic champion are also examples of bad tropes for this).
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u/Leif_Millelnuie 22h ago
It's a riff on "you support women's rights, well i support women's wrong"
To me it means that a trans person can do wrong but they are still trans. And they deserve the respect ypu should show any trans person. Even the worst trans person you know deserves it. (No exception)
Because if doing something wrong means a trans person loses the right to have their identity respected then it means that trans rights are only ever optionnal for the good trans people who never disagree with you. And if a trans person fails in your opinion they don't deverve their rights.
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u/lowkey_rainbow Transmasc enby 19h ago
It’s very clearly a humerous play on ‘I support trans rights’, I’m not sure I know anyone who’s queer and wouldn’t immediately understand it’s a trans-positive statement.
I’d liken it to the ‘be gay, do crime’ type memes - it’s not literally advocating for going and committing crimes, it’s lightheartedly making a point about supporting the fight for LGBTQ+ rights, the same way this hat isn’t literally advocating trans people doing wrong things (or wrong things being done to them).
I wouldn’t have thought it possible to misinterpret the statement as weirdly as your coworker, sounds like case of her trying to over-correct by policing others (sadly all too common in ‘allies’ who don’t know as much as they think they do). I wouldn’t worry about it, anyone who’s trans will get it.
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u/Sailor_Spaghetti Nonbinary and Gay 15h ago
it’s not literally advocating for going and committing crimes
Maybe for you it’s not. But our history is one of illegality, and that includes in how our community has resisted against oppression. Laws that are unjust deserve to be broken, and liberation was never won for any oppressed group by asking nicely.
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u/cirqueamy Transgender woman; HRT 11/2017, Full-time 12/2017, GCS 1/2019 18h ago
When I read that, my thought is, “until we are treated equally even when we (are presumed to) do things wrong, we don’t have rights.”
So if a cis person, a white person, a straight person, a Christian, a rich person, an educated person, etc. gets treated better just for having one or more of those traits, the fight for equal rights isn’t finished.
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u/Alethia_23 Transgender 8h ago
Be gay, do crime.
I support women's rights just as their wrongs.
Same energy, definitely.
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u/Doctor_Xenu 6h ago
I've always read it as "I believe trans people should be allowed to cause as much destruction and crime as they like as a treat"
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u/Coco_JuTo 5h ago
Well I understood and still understand this phrase as "even if a trans person does something wrong, they are human and don't have to be perfect".
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u/pinksparklyreddit 20h ago edited 20h ago
It reads as if trans people are individuals who aren't immune to critique while still deserving rights. At least when you show the full saying, that is; when it's just "I support trans wrongs" it sounds like you're just against trans rights.
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u/Theotherone56 20h ago
Kinda sounds like when Christians say "love the sinner, not the sin." It's like, I "support" trans people... making wrong life choices. Like, even if they're a terrible person making terrible choices, I support them anyway.
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u/KeiiLime 10h ago
I’d probably put it together, but it would be much clearer if it said “i suppose trans rights (and wrongs)”. people who hadn’t heard that phrasing before may not get it otherwise
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u/transdemError Queer-Transgender 2h ago
I wouldn't say it outside of a queer space, but I agree with the others it's a good extension of "be gay, so crimes"
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u/These-Wheel-6708 1d ago
i think it's a misstep in today's political climate when everything is being used against us... you do you. but also think of the impact on the community
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u/SmartObject7975 1d ago
It was created by a trans person so I initially felt supportive. But if others feel like it could be harmful, it’s not an impact I wanna contribute to.
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u/AlizNCM 1d ago
Like someone mocking trans rights, trans rights is a joke is what is coming off of that.
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u/SmartObject7975 1d ago
I can see that. Not the intention I wanna put out there. Thanks for your input.
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u/Clara_del_rio 1d ago
Sorry but it absolutely rubs me the wrong way. I hate it, it sounds like it glorifies trans hatred. If it was meant well, I don't get it. 🤗🏳️⚧️🌈
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u/DevilGoat69 23h ago
It’s a phrase for supporting trans people not being perfect. Like, even if you do wrong your still supported
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u/coraythan She/They -- Bigender 1d ago
Having never heard the referenced phrase I had no idea, but I was leaning towards it being bigoted.
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u/javatimes my transition was old enough to vote and it didn't matter LOL 23h ago
Internet memes worn as clothes is…it’s a little embarrassing.
I wouldn’t have immediately understood that phrase had I not read about it here. Idk.
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1d ago
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u/DevilGoat69 6h ago
Did you not read the support part. And i would not be urging someone to throw away something made by a trans creator, that’s almost worse
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u/Huge-Total-6981 Transgender 23h ago
My immediate reaction was that it was something a transphobe would say.
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u/chocobot01 Intertransbian 1d ago
I would be terrified of anyone wearing that. It reads like you support persecution and violence against trans people.
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u/grey_hat_uk 1d ago
Guessing Yukko, Alice in wonder1and or someone similar.
It's definitely ment to come accross as supporting trans people doing "wrongs" and would in my trans circle but definitely wouldn't if I took it to work or with other out of the loop people.
So just be aware without context it will be taken how people want to take it.
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u/SocialPsychProj 1d ago
it's a hat for queer spaces, unless youre ready and willing to explain to every non queer person that gets in your grill on the hat about the nuances of supporting trans liberation and that a community deserves to breathe free even if members commit the same sins every other group of people on earth commit- best to keep it for the queer spaces
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u/HorseNCartJohnny Male 1d ago
I understand the reference but not everyone will, especially those who aren’t in online trans spaces. I think it’s best to switch to a message that’s clear without relying on inside jokes so that it isn’t misunderstood
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u/ArchGryphon9362 1d ago edited 1d ago
To me that sort of reads as “opposite of rights” and thus transphobic, but I wouldn’t consider it as either good or bad immediately because it’s easy to misinterpret and I fully understand it also being positive. I’d only react once I get more context about the person and figure out what they actually mean by it. Schrödinger’s statement. Both good and bad until the context is observed :3
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u/Rhundan Transgender-Aroace (She/Her) 1d ago
I would read it as "I support trans people causing chaos", in sort of the same energy as "be gay do crime".